Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Furball on October 04, 2002, 07:52:01 PM
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a few extracts from http://www.rcaf.com/archives/418intruder/index.shtml doesnt sound like our mossie much :(
Let me tell you a little bit about the Mosquito. This was the Mk. VI. It was capable of carrying a good bomb load: four 500 pound bombs, and it was armed with four 20 mm Hispano cannons mounted underneath the aircraft. It had, as well, four .303 machine guns in the nose, and all of this really provided devastating fire power. It flew more like a fighter than a bomber and, furthermore, it was at the time the fastest aircraft in the world. At sea level, it could do about 375 miles per hour full out, the odd one could do about 385. At altitude, say 20,000 feet, the Mosquito was capable of flying over 400 miles per hour. Now that doesn't sound very fast today, but in those days it was the fastest aircraft around. You remember the Mosquito was originally designed as a very fast bomber, that was supposed to be able to fly to Berlin in daylight, and bomb it without being successfully opposed. It was later convened into a fighter-bomber
The Mosquito was so feared by the Germans at this point, that it counted for the top score towards getting a "Ritter kreuze", the German Iron Cross. If a pilot or ack-ack crew shot down a single~ngine aircraft he got one point towards a "Ritterkreuze", for a twin-engine aircraft he got two points, for a bomber or a transport - three points, and for a Lancaster or Halifax or a Fortress - four points. But if you shot down a Mosquito, you got five points! With seven points, you got a "Ritterlireuze". Now this fact we did not know at the time and in fact I did not know until Jack told me, was that these kids came running up with their rifles and immediately arrested Jack and his navigator and they were just jumping up and down with excitement. They kept shouting "Ritterkreuze!! Ritterkreuze!!" - because they already had some points and now they had got a Mosquito, and that was five points! Then the Corporal in charge of the ack-ack crew, spotted Jack's three stripes. Jack was a Wing Commander, good for another three points, so one of the lads started jumping again yelling "Ritterkreuze!! mit clusters!! mit clusters!!". An amusing sidelight to an actual experience.
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Neat story about the Mossie and the German medal scoring. I'm skeptical of the speeds listed, though I have seen many pilot "sources" that say the Mossie 6 could do a bit better than 350mph on the deck. Significantly faster than the 338mph ours does.
Still, our Mossie's 338mph is way, way better than the Mossie 6 in WBIII' that maxes at about 310mph on the deck.
BTW, your signature story is an urban legend / joke. It might be wise to edit it out. In addition to that, it is rather long for a signature.
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im not gonna disagree with someone that actually flew the mossie! and i like my signature :P
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damn canucks. ;)
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Originally posted by DingHao2
damn canucks. ;)
Let the rest of the world poke fun at us, it's just a way for them to deal with thier jealousy. :D
The final part of that sig is cut out anyways, it ends with a cruise missile strike on the offending smartass lighthouse operator. :D
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our mossie is slow and weak, and stalls easy
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I think what you guys are asking for is a much later version of the mosquito; the VI is not porked, it's a 1943 moquito and we have a late '44 arena.
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Canada..the 51st state.
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they sure are. ;)
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Originally posted by Innominate
Let the rest of the world poke fun at us, it's just a way for them to deal with thier jealousy. :D
The final part of that sig is cut out anyways, it ends with a cruise missile strike on the offending smartass lighthouse operator. :D
So true ;)
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See what your sig has done?!?!
Its Hijacked your own thread!!!:p
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S!
Last time you Yanks tried to make Canada a State, you got your butts kicked.
Look up the battle of Chateauguay, 1813.
http://www.galafilm.com/1812/e/events/chateaugauy.html
Around 300 Canadian Voltigeurs manhandled an army of 3,000 U.S. Militia who were headed for Montreal.
And don't go quoting any lines from "The Battle of New Orleans"
That was some handsomehunk British General.
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The Mosquito was so feared by the Germans at this point, that it counted for the top score towards getting a "Ritter kreuze", the German Iron Cross. If a pilot or ack-ack crew shot down a single~ngine aircraft he got one point towards a "Ritterkreuze", for a twin-engine aircraft he got two points, for a bomber or a transport - three points, and for a Lancaster or Halifax or a Fortress - four points. But if you shot down a Mosquito, you got five points! With seven points, you got a "Ritterlireuze"
This part of the story is not even close to reality. Someone might have looked a bit to deep into the "mossie Myth".
1st Ritterkreuz is not "German Iron Cross"
Ritterkreuz means the "Knightscross"
And for 7 Points you would not even have gotten the Knightscross in early 1940.
In 1942 the "pointcosts" for a Knightscross were somewhere between 40 - 70.
For medal scorig there were just 3 categories:
1 Point: fighter kill
2 Points: 2-eng buff kill
3 Points: 4-eng buff kill
No 4 point and surely no freaking 5 points for a mossie.
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Bump to speed up the Mossie. My fav ship.
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yep the mossie is wrong...
and thats the funniest damn sig. i have ever seen...just like the americans to mistake the radar sig of a lighthouse for 1 of a boat. if i was the lighthouse i would have said i changed course and let them find out what i was hte hard way...
how sad you hijacked your own post.
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DingHao,
I'm afraid you don't know much about Mosquitoes.
The Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II that we have in AH is the fastest Mosquito Fighter-Bomber of the war. The fact that it entered service in mid-1943 is irrelevant to that. There are later, faster Mosquito bombers and night fighters, but no faster fighter bomber. Further, the Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II made up roughly a third of the total Mosquito production. Just that one sub varient of the Mk VI totaled half of what all 35+ other marks totaled combined.
The vast majority of Mosquito stories out there involve the FB.Mk VI Series II. If guns are mentioned in the story all bomber and photo recon Mosquitoes can be eliminated and if bombs or rockets are mentioned too, then the night fighters can be eliminated.
In summary, no, they are not talking about a later Mosquito.
Another point, many times during WWII a Mosquito FB.VI outran a Bf109 or Fw190 at low level. Now I'm sure they weren't talking about Bf109G-10s / Bf109K-4s or Fw190D-9s but rather Bf109G-2s / Bf109G-6s and Fw190A-5s / Fw190A-8s. In AH the Mosquito will simply not outrun these aircraft.
Yet another point, the Mosquito was one of the most dtreamlined aircraft of WWII. The Mosquito's radiators were the most streamlined radiators of any aircraft in WWII (slightly edging the P-51 IIRC, though I may have them reversed) and like the P-51's radiators they actually produced thrust. Radiators are one of the biggest sources of drag on inline engined fighters. The two Merlin 25s that powered the Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II each produced 1,625hp. The Mosquito FB.VI was also optimized for low altitude work. Now, compare that to the P-38L. It is of similar weight with engines of similar power. It was not known as one of the most streamlined fighter, its radiators in particular being performing poorly in drag tests. It was optimized for high altitude work. Despite all of this, in AH it is faster at sealevel. The Mosquito very slightly edges it for a short while above about 3,000ft, but then the P-38 takes the lead again.
If the P-38 was faster, why did we want Mosquitoes for PR work instead? In reality the Mosquito PR aircraft not only outperformed the F-5 (PR version of the P-38), but also had five times the range.
Range, that brings up yet another issue with the AH Mosquito. In reality the Mosquito FB.Mk VI had a range of about 1,200 miles on internal fuel and 1,800 miles with drop tanks. In AH the Spitfire Mk IX has greater range than the Mosquito does.
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It seems even on the BBS the lightning is an easy target.
:rolleyes:
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I want the Mossie version with the 57mm (6 pounder) tank gun, used for busting German patrol boats and shipping :). Failing that, please import the B-25H with the same short caliber 75mm gun used in the early Sherman tanks
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vort use p38 and mossie for jaboing and removing annoying panzers and osties
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vort, don't talk in the 3rd person, it makes you look like a moron
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vort say
little late for that would you not say mr bendover
would mr bendover prefer vort speak 2nd person like so
me think bendover be very silly boy me think me go away now
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The only thing i find more moronic than speaking in the 3rd person, is the 2nd person
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Karnak, I was referring to the bomber versions.
All the information I have states that the FB Mk VI topped out at 380 mph. I believe that you also agreed about this in an earlier thread about the Me-410.
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DingHao,
Yes, it topped out at 380mph at 13,000ft.
That doesn't say anything about the low altitude speeds that we are talking about in this thread though.
The Mosquito B.Mk XVI topped out at 416mph and the Mosquito NF.Mk XXX topped out at ~420mph (though I have seen some sources say 430mph, I'm skeptical of that speed).
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Originally posted by Karnak
DingHao,
I'm afraid you don't know much about Mosquitoes.
The Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II that we have in AH is the fastest Mosquito Fighter-Bomber of the war. The fact that it entered service in mid-1943 is irrelevant to that. There are later, faster Mosquito bombers and night fighters, but no faster fighter bomber. Further, the Mosquito FB.Mk VI Series II made up roughly a third of the total Mosquito production. Just that one sub varient of the Mk VI totaled half of what all 35+ other marks totaled combined.
The only Mossie that had "Series II" in its designation was the Mosquito B IV. This was to differentiate between the short nacelles (10 PR I and 10 B IV a/c) and extended nacelles (on all versions).
Ah, is it 1/3 or 1/2 of all production?
It was the only Mossie FB if one does not include the FB XVIII "Tse-Tse" (27 a/c), so it would have to be the fastest fighter bomber..
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Originally posted by Innominate
Let the rest of the world poke fun at us, it's just a way for them to deal with thier jealousy. :D
The final part of that sig is cut out anyways, it ends with a cruise missile strike on the offending smartass lighthouse operator. :D
funny thing is , knowing how trigger happy the yanks are thats probably true :)
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MiloMorai,
It would seem you also don't know that much about the Mosquito.
The Series II version of the FB.Mk VI was powered by two Merlin 25 engines and could carry four 500lb bombs.
The Series I version of the FB.Mk VI was powered by two Merlin 21s or 23s and could carry two 500lb bombs under the wings and two 250lb bombs in the bomb bay.
Likewise the Series I and II of the B.Mk IV are used to differentiate engines and payloads.
The only Mosquito with shorter nacelles was the first prototype. There was tail buffeting from 240mph to 255mph that was caused by a stall occuring behind the engine nacelles. This was solved by lengthening the nacelles. No Mosquito with short nacelles ever entered RAF service.
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http://www.home.gil.com.au/~bfillery/mossie02.htm has some interesting data.
The Mosquito TR.33 (derivative of the FB.VI, Merlin 25s) is listed near the end as having an SL speed of 344 mph. The TR.33 apparently had multiple ejector exhausts, which gave a 12 mph speed boost--would all Merlin 25 FB.VIs have had them? (The FB.VI entry also shows the British full-length rocket rails imposing a speed penalty of around 10 mph when installed.)
As for the Mosquito outrunning 190s and 109s at low level, I'm equally puzzled by the German claim in the recent P47, P51, P38...the German view...... (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64784&pagenumber=1) thread that the P-38 was also faster than Luftwaffe fighters down low. From the published figures, I don't see either the Mosquito or Lightning having an appreciable speed edge over an Fw 190A or methanol-equipped Me 109G on the deck.
(By the way, I've no problem with accepting that the PR Mosquito would outrange the smaller F-5, but five times the range? Which subvariants are we talking about, with what fuel load and mission profile?)
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Please ignore the Warbirds related bits, but this (http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9246) thread has some primary source data on the Mossie that may be of interest.
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It seems even on the BBS the lightning is an easy target.
If you find your self as an easy target while flying the P38 in AH you clearly do something wrong.
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Originally posted by Karnak
MiloMorai,
It would seem you also don't know that much about the Mosquito.
The Series II version of the FB.Mk VI was powered by two Merlin 25 engines and could carry four 500lb bombs.
The Series I version of the FB.Mk VI was powered by two Merlin 21s or 23s and could carry two 500lb bombs under the wings and two 250lb bombs in the bomb bay.
Likewise the Series I and II of the B.Mk IV are used to differentiate engines and payloads.
The only Mosquito with shorter nacelles was the first prototype. There was tail buffeting from 240mph to 255mph that was caused by a stall occuring behind the engine nacelles. This was solved by lengthening the nacelles. No Mosquito with short nacelles ever entered RAF service.
Rather snotty are you not Karnak!:eek:
Well it seems that you are not that well informed Karnak, it was a P I that made photos of the Prinz Eugen from 24,000ft. Strange operation for a non-operational prototype a/c to undertake. Mossie PIs operated with No1 PRU out of Benson. In fact, W4051, the prototype P I, was used by No 1 PRU and had code LY-U on its fuselage. :p Note please No1 PRU was a RAF unit. Further proof is that W4059, a P I, LY-T also flew with No 1PRU, RAF. Notice the serial number of LY-T. The photo shows short nacelles. The first combat mission was flown by SL R.Clarke in W4055 17 Sept. 1941!!! By the end of Sept. '41 No 1 PRU had 5 PR I a/c all of which had short nacelles. Note the serial number, which is one of the initial production a/c.
The 500lb needed its fins cropped to fit in the bomb bay, hense until this mod was done, the 250lb bombs were carried. Nothing to do with being a so-called 'FB VI series II' a/c.
The B IV Series II had the nacelles lengthened, plus a few other small changes, Again until short finned 500lb bombs became available the B IV was restricted to carrying 250lb bombs. Sweet bugger all to do with being a Series I/II. Series I a/c had serial numbers W4064-W4072.
Now Karnak, if you get the operational use of the short nacelle P Is wrong, you don't know if it was 1/3 or 1/2 the production of Mosuitos for the FB VI, what else have you got wrong.:p So for Series I and II FB VI, lets see some 'official' proof.
The Mossie PR 34 had a range of ~5400km, so that means the P-38 had only a range of ~1100km.:rolleyes: More of Karnak's mis-information for the P-38J could reach ~3500km. :cool:
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Originally posted by Wilbus
If you find your self as an easy target while flying the P38 in AH you clearly do something wrong.
such as.....
trying to engage as a fighter?
:p
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Oh no, Shane tried one of his funny comments again.
Actually, the P38 is one of the best fighters you can find in AH. It does everything good except very high speed dives.
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maybe if we squeak and moan long enough (like the p38) long enough, it'll be changed (like the p38):)