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General Forums => Terrain Editor => Topic started by: kanttori on October 06, 2002, 12:36:39 PM

Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: kanttori on October 06, 2002, 12:36:39 PM
Hello!

My only problem in new TE is, that it don't create clipboard map... I do it with following steps:

1) First "File" and "Make Map" size "1024 X 1024"
2) It makes 24 bit bitmap, I change it 256 color and size "512 X 512"
3) I name map-file "FinRus12", whick is Folder and all files name.

It don't work, when I build a Terrain and go to Offline, the clipboard map is something else...

WHAT IS PROBLEM? :confused:
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: BenDover on October 06, 2002, 01:44:59 PM
my best guess would be to stick it in the .../myterr/texsrc folder
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: kanttori on October 06, 2002, 01:50:55 PM
VERY MANY THX BENDOVER!:D

You save my soul, it works!:p
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Sikboy on February 08, 2003, 09:47:30 PM
thanks guys, this was driving me crazy.

-Sik
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: kanttori on February 09, 2003, 01:50:54 AM
Nowadays I don't have any Clipboard map problems, because I know the world's absolytely best CB map maker:

                               :D >THE MAGNIFICENT DUX < :D


Look the Fin-Rus Clipboard map... I don't understand how he created it... it's the best I have never ever seen in AH!:eek:
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: BenDover on February 09, 2003, 08:25:01 AM
I belive its his job to make atlas maps

So proburly has access to some fancy tools
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: NUTTZ on February 09, 2003, 09:46:34 AM
I don't believe the CB map NEEDS to be small, I think i remember talking to HiTech and the CB maps are 1024X1024 to show more detail, But they still have to be 256 color.


BTW my CB maps are 1024X1024 8-bit.

NUTTZ
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Dux on February 09, 2003, 10:02:29 AM
Aww shux, Kanttori. :o

Ben, it's nothing more fancy than Photoshop, and the process only takes a couple of hours (without text). I started making a tutorial a few weeks ago, I'll post it if I ever finish it.
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Mugzeee on February 09, 2003, 09:15:57 PM
Dux:
Bravo!   Very Nice work. I look forward to the Tutorial.
Thanks Much  
Mugzee
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Mugzeee on February 09, 2003, 09:40:59 PM
Bens Quote  "my best guess would be to stick it in the .../myterr/texsrc folder"
I dont even see the "texsorce folder" LOL
Cant tell im Way New at the TE.  I do see a C:\Program Files\HTC\aheditor\terrains\TechTest Folder

My C:\Program Files\HTC\aheditor\terrains\myterr  has no Sub Folders at all.
canyou help a Real Newbie?
Thanks:    Mugzeee   :confused:
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Dux on February 09, 2003, 10:16:59 PM
The answer is comically simple, Mugzee: if you don't have a Texsrc subfolder in your MyTerr folder... make one. :)
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Mugzeee on February 09, 2003, 10:56:04 PM
i had a feeling that was the answer. ROFL
But i didnt want to mess anything up.
 Thanks alot
Cheers
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: BenDover on February 10, 2003, 01:59:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
i had a feeling that was the answer. ROFL
But i didnt want to mess anything up.
 Thanks alot
Cheers



If it did mess anything up, you just delete the folder:rolleyes:
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: fffreeze220 on February 10, 2003, 02:33:40 AM
Dux can u create a MA clipbaord map ??
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: kanttori on February 10, 2003, 04:43:57 AM
Dux can create MA maps as he can create CT maps, they are similar types. When I first time saw the new MA Trinity terrain (it's a great work) and it's clipboard map I thought at once: Why this awesome terrain don't have an awesome CB map...

Trinity's map is very difficult to read, I don't separate the field icon's info text from the backgroung. If you compare it to Fin-Rus CB map you can see the huge difference between them!:eek:

My opinion is that Dux should create all the MA maps to the totally new clothing. The new CB maps would improve the classic MA terrains much!

Hey HTC: do you hear me!;)
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: kanttori on February 10, 2003, 05:03:38 AM
Here's Trinity map that you can compare. I pick the picture from the game's Clipboard, so the resolution is not as good as in Fin-Rus map's picture.
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: kanttori on February 10, 2003, 05:54:17 AM
Here's the same area (50 miles X 50 miles) from both maps and the file quality is same in the both. I took those pictures from the Clipboard map: same size, same zoom etc.

I know that Trinity's area is four times bigger than Fin-Rus's area and the CB map must be 1024 X 1024 in the both maps. There can't be so many little details in Trinity's map. I want only show here the difference of readableness and sharpness between those two maps.;)
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: kanttori on February 10, 2003, 06:00:35 AM
And once more, this is the same area (25 miles X 50 miles) from both maps again. Must I say anything more from those maps? :rolleyes:

I don't want any misunderstandings, so I write here one more time: NOBADDY'S TRINITY IS A GREAT MA TERRAIN AND IT BROUGHT ME BACK TO MAIN ARENA!:D
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: fffreeze220 on February 10, 2003, 06:26:33 AM
Hitech would it be possible to let Dux make the clipbaord map for the Main Arena if he is willing to do it ???
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Wmaker on February 10, 2003, 07:55:12 AM
Yes! It would be awesome to have Dux' CB maps in the MA terrains...heck, in all terrains!! :)
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: NHawk on February 10, 2003, 08:34:50 AM
His maps look great, but it has the same problem our current maps have. It's next to impossible to see the green friendly bases. On some maps you can't see either enemy or friendly. And, changing colors sometimes doesn't help either. Trinity is a perfect example of a map that isn't friendly to any icon colors. Or, at least a mix that allows you to see wingman, squad, friendly and enemy all on the map at once.

IMHO, I still think a greyscale CB map is the way to go.
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Wmaker on February 10, 2003, 10:49:48 AM
oops :)
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Bizman on February 12, 2003, 09:30:28 AM
I don't usually have any problems seeing the colours of bases, and I use default settings!

But trying to determine highs and lows by the Trinity clipboard map is impossible. When I zoom the map close, all I can see is DOTS! Even the sea on the map is coloured with altering lighter and darker blue dots, which IMHO is due to the program's unability to handle certain colours. I remember Kanttori having similar problems when he started to make skins to the planes, the solution being some nice little program that eliminated dots when changing from 32 bit to 256 colours.

IMO a great terrain like the Trinity deserves a map of the same quality!
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: hitech on February 12, 2003, 01:52:29 PM
It's not possible to have dux do them all, but he did do one for trinity that we will use, and im anxiously awaiting his proccess so we can duplicate it.

HiTech
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: fffreeze220 on February 12, 2003, 02:10:19 PM
Thank u very much Hitech. U doing all of us a big favour.
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Shiva on February 12, 2003, 02:32:26 PM
Would something like this be viable as a basis for a clipboard map, taking the elevation data and turning it into contours, then shading:
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: BenDover on February 12, 2003, 02:53:32 PM
hey, how did you do that?
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Shiva on February 12, 2003, 03:06:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BenDover
hey, how did you do that?


It was relatively straightforward. I fired up Vista Pro, a terrain-rendering program I have (purely for the DEM data it has) and loaded a terrain file for Granite Park. I exported the elevation data as a grayscale file, giving me the image at the top left below. Then I loaded the image into Paint Shop Pro and used the Topography effect on it, adjusting the parameters until I got something I liked; that gave me the image at the top right below.

For my original example, I just laid down a  new layer of solid green, but for the example in this message I went back to Vista Pro and exported the terrain colors; this is the image at the lower left below. I took that image and pasted it over the topography as a new layer, set it under the topography layer, set the mode of the topography layer to 'multiply', and adjusted the opacity of the topography layer until I got a result I liked, which is the image at the lower right below. (it's a desert canyon, which is why the colors are what they are)

With the same amount of fiddling with screenshots for terrain colors and exported heightfields for topography, it should be relatively easy to do this with any terrain data.
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Shiva on February 12, 2003, 03:26:04 PM
Doing the same thing with DEM data from the Yosemite Valley around Half Dome, this is what I created. I will have to experiment with getting terrain data back out of a .RES file to see how easy it will be to do the same thing with an AH terrain file.
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: kanttori on February 12, 2003, 05:15:13 PM
Thank you Shiva for your good and clear lesson! I must try that, too (only like amateur) they're very great looking elevation maps what you have done!:cool:
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Dux on February 12, 2003, 05:44:53 PM
Shiva, what your program does is the same basic principal as what I do in PhotoShop (but less automatic :))

Wow, HT... this is great news. I'll set myself a deadline so I can get that tutorial finished soon.
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Shiva on February 13, 2003, 10:03:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dux
Shiva, what your program does is the same basic principal as what I do in PhotoShop (but less automatic :))

Wow, HT... this is great news. I'll set myself a deadline so I can get that tutorial finished soon.


PSP isn't a high-end graphics editor like Photoshop; it only does about 80% of what PS can, but at 1/6 the price of Photoshop, it's a much better value for those of us who aren't professional graphic artists. It can use most PS-compatible plugins, though, which brings it closer to parity.

I expect that there would be people beyond HTC who would be interested in seeing the tutorial; could it be made generally available?
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Dux on February 13, 2003, 11:15:08 AM
Worry not, Shiva, the intent of the tutorial has always been for everyone here... I'm just speeding it up a little now that HT has shown interest. It will be available to all when it's done.

As for PSP... Like I've said, nothing in this technique is terribly fancy or high-end, and I would be very surprised if most midrange pixel-based graphics programs can not do any of the steps. As for specifics... I have never used PSP, so I cannot comment on its abilities. I guess you guys here will be Beta testers. :)


I can tell you upfront about some requirements, though.

A. You must be able to have multiple different layers in a single file. (about 10-15 typically)
B. Each layer must be capable of its own transparency setting (i.e., multiply, screen, overlay).
C. You must be able to colorize a greyscale image (the elevation map) in different ways.

Everything pretty much centers around these three things. Anything else is just a matter of doing something the easy way or the hard way.

Tutorial should be ready in about... 2 weeks :D
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Shiva on February 13, 2003, 01:02:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dux
A. You must be able to have multiple different layers in a single file. (about 10-15 typically)
B. Each layer must be capable of its own transparency setting (i.e., multiply, screen, overlay).
C. You must be able to colorize a greyscale image (the elevation map) in different ways.


All of which PSP will do easily.

Experimenting with VistaPro and setting the camera waaay up over the center of the DEM looking down to get as undistorted a view of the rendered terrain as possible, then using the 'topo' filter in PSP to get contours from the greyscale heightmap, a little experimentation produces a pretty reasonable shaded-terrain image with topographic contours. Since the terrain editor will export a heightfield image, then even if we have to screenshot a straight-down view of the terrain in the editor to get a shaded view, combining them to produce a quality map image seems eminently feasible:
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Mugzeee on February 28, 2003, 11:07:48 AM
Please help:
Clicking on Make Map has created a Clipboard map that looks like it should.  Observing its attributes in PhotoShop its a RGB 1024x1024 8bit.
I created a "texsrc" folder in the "italy" folder and moved the .Bmp of the clipboard map to the "texsrc" folder. Then i renamed the Map.bmp  to the name that matches the name of my terrain,  italy.bmp.
I still have no clipboard map in game. What gives?
I also tried to change it to 512 x 512 with no luck.
Also TE noe Crashes with a "Ddhelp" error/Please help if ya have any ideas. Thanks
Mugzeee
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: FBfalcon on February 28, 2003, 11:27:55 AM
WOW!
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: NUTTZ on February 28, 2003, 11:29:57 AM
the map the TE generates is 1024x1024 24-bit, NOT 8-bit. you will need to convert it to 8-bit, throw it in texsrc folder, then open up the TE and in the upper left hit 'Build" then exit and re-enter, then it will show up. Remember to copy the .Res file of your map and paste it in your AH folder , so you can fly it offline.


NUTTZ


Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Please help:
Clicking on Make Map has created a Clipboard map that looks like it should.  Observing its attributes in PhotoShop its a RGB 1024x1024 8bit.
I created a "texsrc" folder in the "italy" folder and moved the .Bmp of the clipboard map to the "texsrc" folder. Then i renamed the Map.bmp  to the name that matches the name of my terrain,  italy.bmp.
I still have no clipboard map in game. What gives?
I also tried to change it to 512 x 512 with no luck.
Also TE noe Crashes with a "Ddhelp" error/Please help if ya have any ideas. Thanks
Mugzeee
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Mugzeee on February 28, 2003, 09:22:58 PM
Thanks a bunch .  I Had it i RGB and i didnt have an 8Bit ption in PhotoShop. So i changed it to Indexed color.  :)
 Mugzeee
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Shiva on March 01, 2003, 12:55:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dux
Shiva, what your program does is the same basic principal as what I do in PhotoShop (but less automatic :))


Interestingly, the beta for Paint Shop Pro 8 is now out; one of the new features is scripting (based off of the programming language Python). This means that I will be able to create a one-button script that will perform the topo function -- open the image, run the script, save the new image.  :D

There are a ton of new features in PSP8, too (along with an equally large number of interface changes, so it's going to take me a while to become familiar with the new version); I expect to have a lot of fun learning to use it...
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Shiva on May 01, 2003, 11:36:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dux
Ben, it's nothing more fancy than Photoshop, and the process only takes a couple of hours (without text). I started making a tutorial a few weeks ago, I'll post it if I ever finish it.





Any update on the status of the tutorial, Dux?
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: StracCop on August 11, 2003, 09:20:56 AM
Dux,

Were you able to complete that psd tutorial on
making topographic maps you were working on?

I was in the CT the other day (heck, what am I
saying - every day!) and I spoke to 10Bears
about the clipboard topo maps when he directed
me to you.  

Having read this thread and the possibility of
learnbing your technique has me quite excited.

Could you update us on the tutorial?

Thanks!

David
"StracCop"
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: naziteck on August 12, 2003, 08:47:12 PM
hey duck let me see some of your work?
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Dux on August 12, 2003, 09:05:55 PM
Okay, here's the deal... months ago, I started a tutorial that went into so much detail, my Grandmother would be able to do it. I don't have the time to continue with that much detail, so instead I'll make a very short and sweet tutorial and post it here by next week. If you have ever used a good bitmap editor... like PhotoShop or PaintShopPro... then you will have no trouble following the steps. If you've had no experience at all... well, I can't hold your hand through it. If you can't follow my steps, then you're really not ready for this kind of project anyway.

When it's ready, I'll start a new thread with all the steps in it. Stay tuned...
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: StracCop on August 29, 2003, 11:24:57 PM
When we get Dux' abbreviated tutorial I'll use it as a basis for a comprehensive one.  The comprehensive tut will be on its own web page and will most probably include some Flash movies that I will make showing certain aspects of the technique that may need elaboration.


David
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: naziteck on August 30, 2003, 09:44:21 AM
cool :)

by the way       Dux what program do you use for your awesome clipboard maps? :)
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: StracCop on September 02, 2003, 09:05:54 AM
He uses Photoshop.  :)

I don't know if he uses one, but I just
ordered a Wacom Intuous2 Digitizing
Tablet to help with the map design.

Can't wait for Dux' tutorial!  :D

David
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: StracCop on September 15, 2003, 12:26:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dux
Okay, here's the deal... months ago, I started a tutorial that went into so much detail, my Grandmother would be able to do it. I don't have the time to continue with that much detail, so instead I'll make a very short and sweet tutorial and post it here by next week. If you have ever used a good bitmap editor... like PhotoShop or PaintShopPro... then you will have no trouble following the steps. If you've had no experience at all... well, I can't hold your hand through it. If you can't follow my steps, then you're really not ready for this kind of project anyway.

When it's ready, I'll start a new thread with all the steps in it. Stay tuned...


Any progress on this Dux?

David
Title: Clipboard map is not created
Post by: Dux on September 15, 2003, 07:41:14 AM
Yeah, it's about half done, but I put it on hold until AH2 comes out... no point in doing it twice, just in case things are different.