Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Dr Lecter on October 07, 2002, 03:56:35 AM
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Hooray! My cr***y old joystick is dead. Now I will have to buy a new one. Question is: which one? What gimmicks are worthwhile, and what sould I avoid?
I originally asked this Q as part of a different thread, so attach comments from others here....
Fm Innominate:
"I don't know how much that is in ŁUK, but for about $50 US you can get a Thrustmaster Afterburner. Looks like a cheap toy but is solidly built. The best feature is that it has a joystick twist, which can be locked, and an option to use a rocker on the throttle as the rudder. (No more bumping the rudder when you move the stick)."
Fm JB73:
"Logitech Wingman 3d is about $30 US ... dont know exchange rate but its a decent stick. No force feedback but has twist and 4 buttons on top of stick which is nice."
:) :) :)
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It all depends on how much you want to spend, and what OS you're running. I've heard great things about CH products, the Saitek X45, and the Cougar HOTAS. The cougar is very programmable, as is the Saitek. Although, I've heard the the X45 doesn't play too nicely with Windows XP.
I fly with a MS Precision 2. It's not a bad stick for the price.
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Personally I've had very good use out of my MS Sidewinders. Latest one is a Sidewinder Prec 2, USB.
Has the twist throttle and 8 way hat. Costs about 50$ US. Good all one one stick. Traditionally TM products have had much heavier springs. Which is fine if your 6'4" and work as a lumberjack.
Check them all out, see whats available in your area. Check with other pilots in your area, see what they like.
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Thank you for these replies.
Ghosth - has the Prec 2 Sidewinder got force feedback? I have read the spec on this in the UK and it does not mention this facility.
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Since I fly with the same stick as ghost, I'll reply.
No, the MS Precision 2 does not have force feedback. For that, you'll have to purchase the MS ForceFeedback stick. It's about $90 US.
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I have had great success with the Microsoft Precision Pro series. I personally have had 3 of them and my latest is the MS Force Feedback 2. The FF runs around 95$ US. I have found however that the force feedback is ok and unless you really really have to have it......you can do better with the Precision Pro. I am particular to the MS Precision Pro and not the 2 model. I like the button layout on the Prec Pro better than the Prec 2 model.
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I don't know how anyone can go wrong with the Saitek Cyborg 3D USB Gold joystick. I have two of them, and they are great. They do everything the MS Precision Pro sticks do for only $30. It also looks much cooler! I have looked at getting the more expensive Saitek X45 setup, but the tightwad in me keeps telling me that I can buy two and a half 3D USB sticks for every X45. I am convinced that there is nothing out there better for the money. By the way, don't install the programing software. It is not needed. Once windows detects the joystick, you can program all the buttons from the AH keyboard setup. I run on Win98. Don't know how it does on other systems.
By the way, here is a link http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/cyborgold.htm
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I can thoroughly recommend the Saitek X36 USB combo - now replaced by the X45 - but for a long time my stick was the Saitek Cyborg 3D USB, which I retain for FPS games.
Avoid the X36 gameport; if you go for the X45, ignore the Saitek drivers and go for Dhauzimmer's.
I can also recommend the old Suncom kit.
I now have a Cougar which is just fantastic.
I've tried a fair number of joysticks and generally found that Microsoft's are too small for me.
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Originally had a MS PP1 for 4 years until it got a bit slack. Bought a MS FF2 but couldn't really get used to the no-centering mode and the fact that it activates as soon as you touch the stick. Really annoying.
Just bought the TM Top Gun Afterburner and am really happy with it. You can adjust the spring tension via a little knob under the base. I still use the twist grip for rudder 'cause I can't get used to the rudder on the throttle. I just hope that the pots don't crap out anytime soon.
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vort say
fly with mouse your many kills will get you more noticed as you fly with mouse
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i just went through stick selection as i was trying to get away from my pp2 usb. I tried the saitek x45 - nice stick setup, but the drivers for win2k (same as xp) blew - i could not get stick setup. I did not try the other drivers mentioned in thread because I did not know about them...but for 90 bucks it should work. I tried the thrustmaster afterburner, it was nice, but I have a big hand and it made the heel of my palm sore...so, i fly with my microsoft precision pro 2 usb, just tweeked the scaling a and damping a bit to minimize the bounce i kept getting while shooting. Next stick? probably ms again...unless I drop $450 for the thrustmaster stick and rudder pedals and throttle...probably 49 dollar ms :(
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Right now I use a MS Precision II and Nostromo n50 SpeedPad as a 'throttle'. The Speed Pad was made for FPS games but it works great as a throttle and provides lots of additional functions. It was about $30.
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I have had a whole range of joysticks since I started playing flight sims. I started playing WB with the original MS Precision Pro Gameport joystick which was just fantastic and is still working now. I can't fault it.
I bought a Saitek X36 (gameport) joystick throttle combo along with a set of TM peddals. The TM peddals where great but the X36 sucked bigtime. I didn't like the drivers or the stupid stick programing option you had to run and reconfiger ever time you wanted to run something. I also found the controls bouncy and inpracice (but that was just me) I went back to using the trusty old MS PP.
Last year at the AH UK convention I won the H2H compatition and my prize was a brand new Sidewinder Precision Pro 2. That is brilliant and I can't fault it. It has plenty of buttons to play with and an integrated throttle and twisty stick. I think it's just great and I would recommend it to anybody.
If it was me and I didn't have lots of money to fork out for a TM HOTAS then I would go for the Sidewinder Precision Pro 2. It's microsoft so it works great with windows.
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Well in my time playing Air Warrior and AH, I've broken many joysticks, bad ones include, Thurstmaster (both I had broke within 2 weeks), Saitek X36 (toooo many bugs), Gravis Blackhawk (Cheapppp) umm lets see, Wingmans were alright, but I didnt really like them...
Good Ones: ANYTHING CH is good, also the current JS I have now is a Sidewinder Precision 2 and its holding up nicely, 4 months now without breaking...thats a record for me lol :)
Hope this helps...
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I had:
a Gravis Blackhawk - sucked - only 4 buttons
MS Sidewinder 3D - twisty rudder on main stick annoyed me
Some other stick that I can't remember - My dad stole it to play Aces High one day haven't seen it since
and my current stick is:
Thrustmaster Top Gun Afterburner
It is a nice stick, you can select weither you use the twisty handle as a rudder or the rocker switch on the throttle. The throttle and the stick itself can seperate. The mapping software is rather buggy, but it can be delt with.
It is a good stick for the $40 I spent on it, only 1 notch down from the HOTAS setups that Thrustmaster offers. So, all in all, I would say this stick gives you a lot of bang for your buck, but then again, every one has thier own favorite stick. THis one just happens to be mine. SO, long story short here is my trolling disclaimer: The views expressed in this thread are the property of SLShill and are not meant as an attack on anyone or anything. These are merely my thoughts as I read this thread. If you get insulted by this reply then I really can't help you. If you think I'm stupid then I can't help you again. I may be stupid, I may be smart, all you know is what I type.
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First, a BIG thank you to all of you for taking the trouble to comment on this one.
Clearly, everyone has their own preferences (no surprise there, then!). Preferences seem to be based on:
Cost
Hand Size
Rudder/twist stick interface
Drivers
XP Compatibility
Durability (serious stick forces here!)
Stick Forces
Looking through the replies, most popular seem to be MS Precision Series, and the Thrustmaster Afterburner.
Can't wait for Christmas!
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Old stick ws a MS PP1, loved it but it started spiking for some reason (It shouldn't do this: no pots to spike) It did last for 5 years though so no complaints really.
Bought a PP2 and I have to say after 4 months:
Good stuff
It's not broke yet. The old one lasted 5 years, The quality of this one is almost the same. Maybe the hat isn't quite as good. 3yr warrenty tho if I remember correctly.
No Pots. (big plus)
It doesn't need loads of crap software to work. You don't even need to install the Sidewinder software if you don't want to. Just plug it in and windows picks it up straight away.
I actually like twisty sticks. No space for rudder pedals.
Bad Stuff
I don't like the way the springs are set up. There's one for the X axis and 1 for Y, great for doing lovely perfect flat x or y turns but not so good for really small control adjustments. Move the stick in a small circle to see what I mean. I don't like the 'bumps'.
My hands are almost too big for it. I have problems reaching the '3' and '4' buttons. '2' I don't use at all because it's too awkward to get at.
Would I buy another...? Probably not. I'd go for one of the Saitek combos right now. Just to see how they compare.
If they'll let you, go to a shop that will let you open the box and actually feel what the stick is like before you buy it! Best bit of advise I can give really.
Gatso
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Gatso, forgive my ignorance, but what is 'Pots', and what is 'spiked'?
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Originally posted by Dr Lecter
Gatso, forgive my ignorance, but what is 'Pots', and what is 'spiked'?
Potientiometers, variable resistors used to determine where a stick is. Some pots break down and start giving wrong readings, like out of nowhere the computer will see the stick go all the way in one direction for a moment. Very annoying if it happens.
Personally though this has never been an issue for me, all of the sticks I've used either broke(cheap $10-$20 sticks), or mushed out(like my cyborg). My afterburner has been going steadily for a year now without any issues.
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:D Wingman extreme is my choice had it 2 years still feels sweet and tight,has twisty rudder on stick works well,enough buttons and a hat switch!!!!,ive try'd a few a this is the best!!!...lector i got mine @ pc world they are cheap for j'sticks!!!....
Oh also i try'd the "logitech wingman force feedback" this is a big NO NO crap stick the exesive play makes it a nightmare!!! avoid feedback sticks !!!! imho!!!.......happy hunting!...
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I flew with sidewinder precision pro for 6 years, Im with tracerx if you are thinking of going that route, the cyborg 3d gold does everything that the MS does, plus the stick is adjustable to fit your hand and you get 2 shift buttons that can add shifted functions to your 8 regular buttons giving you 24 functions (compared to 8 on the MS). They are not expensive either.
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Another thank you to everyone - I'm soaking it all in people.......:)
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I've had really good luck with CH.
http://www.chproducts.com
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Those are shift buttons Murdr? You mean I can combo those to use the buttons for more than one function? Dang, I have some work to do!! (Shoves work papers into desk and runs down the stairs to the dark basement and with an evil grin fires up the flight computer. Muahhaahhaa!!) OOps, sorry, uh, see you online! :)
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>grinn<
My Cyborg 3d gold usb button programs...
1. fire primary
2. fire secondary
3. toggle stickset (views)
4. toggle secondary
f1. flap down
f2. wep
f3. flap up
f4 toggle combat trim
left shift 1. engine
left shift 2. select engine 1
left shift 3. select all engines
left shift 4. select engine 2
left shift f1. zoom
left shift f2. tuned channel
left shift f4. range channel
right shift f4. look down&fwd
still got 8 more button settings to work with ;)
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I have Saitek X36 usb stick & throtle about 2 years now and Im very happy with it. Also my AH&RL friend RBug have X36 usb and no problems.
Older Saitek X36 GAMEPORT verion had tons of problems... I know it well.
X36/45 is very good HOTAS concerning prize. "Promming" is NOT problem at all and autoconfig select right configuration concerning the starting game.
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Originally posted by Murdr
I flew with sidewinder precision pro for 6 years, Im with tracerx if you are thinking of going that route, the cyborg 3d gold does everything that the MS does, plus the stick is adjustable to fit your hand and you get 2 shift buttons that can add shifted functions to your 8 regular buttons giving you 24 functions (compared to 8 on the MS). They are not expensive either.
You can get a similar function on any stick with Keymapper and Stick sets.
Select a button to be your toggle:
Stick Set 1: Button = Stick Set 2
Stick Set 2: Button = Stick Set 1
This is mostly used for views:
Stick Set 1: Hat Up = Forward/Up view
Stick Set 2: Hat Up = Up view
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Originally posted by Murdr
>grinn<
My Cyborg 3d gold usb button programs...
3. toggle stickset (views)
still got 8 more button settings to work with ;)
Yep
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I use USB CH Fighter Stick, CH USB Pro Throttle, & CH USB Pro Pedals. Very easy to use. Learning the initial programing using the CH Control Manager can be a bit intimidating but well worth the effort! Once your set its idiot proof. The quality heavy duty construction pays off for those that tend to be a bit heavy handed. They are all togethor a bit pricey, but if you search the internet you can save around $150.00 on all 3 when purchased togethor.
>>>S<<<
GOODHUNTING
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Time for another 'thanks' for all the posts on this subject.
I'm sorted in my head now re. pros and cons, and the winner for me is......
Saitek Cyborg USB Gold. Why?
I'm left handed.
There's loads on the stick that is adjustable.
I like lots of 'shortcuts' (which the functions on the stick can provide in abundance).
Saitek have got a good reputation.
It looks good.
It's not too expensive.
You can get a driver update for Windows XP online.
I'm still not convinced about force feedback.
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using an x45 now, love it.
at first i whined about how hard it was to play with due to the stiff spring.
now that i am used to it i could never go back. No offense to the MS crowd, but those things look, and more importantly FEEL like toys.
I have a friend who plays with a MSPP2 and i am afraid to walk by the damn stick if the plane is on auto pilot, lest i move the stick with the breeze.
Ghost you use a twisty stick? :eek: