Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on October 07, 2002, 10:14:47 AM
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Been playing this out of the box (canned missions) and I must say its quite nice. It certainly won't replace AH though.
Since this has been the subject of microscopes in the OT forum for over a year now, I'll make my "Pro's and Con's" a short one:
Pros:
Graphics, finest available for WW2 air combat.
--Terrain, I find it one of the best, even up close.
--Clouds, "Did they steal a chapter from Hitech?"
--Light sourcing, Unbelieveable.
Interface, intuitive easy to use.
Cons:
Gunnery sucks. When firing, it appears (visually too, with the tracers) that your bullets are coming out of a box about 10 feet above your aircraft. Oh, you want to hit something with those bullets? Well, saddle up to the point where your about to saw off the tail of the enemy aircraft, thats the only way your gonna bring it down, your full load of ammunition, and in close.
FM: Questionable at best IMO. Don't even think of using rudder correction while strafing GV's, you'll be off course by 10 deg in a heart beat, no "fine rudder trim" while using pedals, its all or nothing with the pedals. Best to not use them at all. The planes seem to wallow in the air. Of course, FM's are a thing of personal choice...and personally, I do not like IL-2's FM's.
View system sucks. Nuff said.
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Hmmm flight model and gunnery seem a bit off....
looked really great...
The patching system sucks. Patched it on my freshly reformatted system with XP pro and it will not run now.
Also, who wants to be a German or Russian? I want to shoot down Japanese in my F4U!
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I feel exactly like Rip does about IL2.
1. The FM is wierd, especially the rudder sensitivity and other bouncing.
2. The gunnery is bad because of #1.
3. The view system is not as good as AH.
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Yeah, I kinda expected that ;)
I feel similar to FM, but I tend to place historical immersion and visual feedback above FM nitpicking, so I like IL-2 more. Personal preference, I guess.
Il-2s attention to detail is amazing. From ammo mixes and performance changes due to weather to rear view mirrors coming in FB. This makes it a winner for me. So what if my 190 compresses more than 109 in dives, as long as I fly it against VVS and not IJA. BTW, I miss Spitfires and Ponies, will have to wait until FB arrives.
Speaking of FMs, a clean hammerhead was impossible for me in AH. Can do it in Il-2.
Still, it took me about a year to decide. Maybe I was exposed to Hitech-Pyro FMs for too long ? g,d,r
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I could have easily lived with the FM, but the gunnery! Its atrocious! (Not that my gunnery is that good in the first place!)
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Yeah, I know the feeling ;).
Used to vent off in AH H2H after missing so much in Il-2 ;)
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uh oh, so I'll be addicted in less than a year? :eek: :)
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Ded 6 only eats up your ammo. Slight deflections shots where you can get hits on the eng or wing roots are much better.
Dead 6 on some of the planes aim for things like the oil cooler on the il2. 3 or 4 hits it will burn. I saddle up and when the con breaks pull enough lead to aim just forward of the cockpit.
Of course you have to be in close where the smallest amount of manuvering throws of your shot.
The favorite manuver online is to open full flaps at any speed. When your in close you will colide or overshoot. Even in the fuel real rooms this is standard practice. It has made the il2 online experience tedious. That and having your head glues to the back of the seat. The view from the 190s are terrible.
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Originally posted by Wotan
Of course you have to be in close where the smallest amount of manuvering throws of your shot.
That sentence summed it up pretty much, you get in close, you get a nice deflection shot, you "attempt" to adjust, and now your out of your "shot opportunity" window. :(
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keep playing with the stick scaling.
ultimately you will either chose good manuvering or good shooting.
Finding a good balance takes some work.
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Originally posted by Wotan
keep playing with the stick scaling.
ultimately you will either chose good manuvering or good shooting.
Finding a good balance takes some work.
Or just go play AH....
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I hate the fluttery controls. That and the parking my nose on his tail to get a hit. I have gotten deflection shots at d.4 but mostly against bombers. but my nose jumps around to much. No spitnikis is a big plus in my opinion though. Wish it had more bombers or twins though. It does have a stuka which is a plus.
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this is the thing I like most...a Yak 1b after couple of 190 passes
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Originally posted by Hristo
this is the thing I like most...a Yak 1b after couple of 190 passes
that picture illustrates one of the problems with the game
UNDER damage modeling
either that pilot should be dead or the plane uncontrolable or both - not flying
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You could mess with the scaling of your pedals Rip... would possibly mean you have to dig into the conf files and make changes, test, and repeat ad nauseum(sp?)
SKurj
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Have to agree. Hard to understand the gunnery thing. The full realism is silly hard. the easy is silly easy. I think they have it bracketed.
They really do alot of work on the game and it is fun to follow along on.
The models, sounds and enviroment are fantasy level to me.
The view system is perplexing. Hard to understand why they left it so limiting.
love the game though.
If they decided there was enought money in a massive online version I think they could do an awsome job and I would try it for sure..
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in FB (the new add-on coming this winter) the engine damage modle will have 20 seperate hit zones.
I've been playing it since it's release. I agree with most of rips points. I didn't find the gunnery change that different from when I switched from RB3d and MScfs to aces high. once you get used to the gunnery it's not hard to down a plane with a couple well aimed bursts (mostly you learn to target areas of the plane not just planes).
the only real complaint is the patching. alot of people get patches that have problems. for some reason you get better d/l's from the french site.
I also gotta agree on the rudder sensitivity and I've been meaning to try to adjust it for about a year:p
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Oh, come on. Gunnery is very easy, you just need to get use to it.
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/_uimages/190a5-0.jpg)
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Well, I have IL-2. Played it for 2 hours, then got bored with the view system. And the fact that the flames from the guns when you shoot obscure your target, be it night or day.
Mebbe I'll load it up, Am bored. Then again, haven't got time for that. Oh well.
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I fully agree with under damage modeling. That particular Yak (flown by AI) still flew and fought for another few minutes. It went down after wingman 190 collided with it. Yak was torn in two, while 190 lost half wing.
Still, damage model should not to be discarded so easily. Progressive damage like engine fire come to mind.
Gunnery may seem hard because you don't get much visual feedback. In AH you are used to get feedback on hitting with even .303 at 1000 yds - same hit sprites as with 75mm HE at 50 yds ;).
Yes, Il-2 has few things to learn from AH still. But AH has couple of things to learn from Il-2.
Personally, I find it hard to go back to 1980 style cockpit, imperial unit system in LW planes, star wars hit sprites, Linda Blair 6 view, binary damage system. If they fixed these things in AH, then who knows ;).
P.S.
Hi Santa ! How's school ?
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S!
I read this thread with great interest. I've been playing AH along with IL-2 and find them both nice.
But complaining about gunnery in IL-2. People in AH, IMHO, are used to this easy mode gunnery they have. It's no sweat to hit a plane from 1000d with some guns and still get a kill. In IL-2 one has to get closer because the spray&pray won't help much and guns have bigger dispersion and energy loss at greater ranges. It is not too hard to score hits on an enemy from 300m(1000ft roughly) in IL-2, You just need to be more precise.
Damage model. People seem to think that the VISUAL presentation is the actual damage. This is not the case in IL-2. Oleg has stated that these graphics show the severity of the damage and the area where damage has been inflicted.
, not actual damage. I agree there are some oddities in the DM, but it is still under works for FB.
Flight model is different from AH yes. No planes on rails in there;)One thing that might contribute to the different feel of the FM is mostlikely that in IL-2 they haven't modelled pilot strength. I recall AH has it in? In IL-2 the control surfaces do not deflect fully at high speeds etc. so in that department it is correct. And keep in mind that FB will include more things to FM that are now not included. Have been mentioned at UBI-boards.
But anyway..both of these games offer a lot of fun. The other is a boxed one and the other pay-to-play. My 2 cents...
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Many guys in our squadron fly both games. I've come to the conclusion that it is quite pointless to compare AH and IL2 with the same standards. The two games are totally different in perspective.
AH offers a massive online environment sim with the emphasis on effortless gameplay and fun.
IL2 is for small scale online fights and squadron based co-ops, offering extremely challenging gameplay.
However, the fact remains that some features are a "must" for a modern sim. AH offers a better balance in all areas, whereas IL2, despite its "hard core" approach, leaves some things to wish for. The poor view system is one of them. On the other hand, I find the gunnery in IL2 much much better than the "funny gunnery lasers" in AH.
In any case, both games offer their unique environments and I will happily play both. :)
Camo
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Camo,
I'll agree with your post. Almost like AH is in the middle for "Gameplay/realisim", IL2 would be to the right, and as comparison, Janes Sims would be on the left.
Pongo,
regarding the "Bracketed" Comment, spot on.
DB603,
I personally don't think AH gunnery is easy, I do believe the avg. gunnery is around 6% (Someone ran this stat once, where is it?) The longer shots you get hits, but does little damage. Lets agree to disagree on this point. :)
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S!
Ripsnort..achieving average hit% of over 10% ain't too hard in AH, but the gunnery is harder for some weapons yes;) My best avg gunnery% in IL-2 is above 20% because U have to get close, really close! But I agree with You..let's not start a disagreement on agreement with disagreement contest ;):D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I personally don't think AH gunnery is easy, I do believe the avg. gunnery is around 6% (Someone ran this stat once, where is it?) The longer shots you get hits, but does little damage.
At what average range has that 6% been achieved? My guess is somewhere around 300-400 yds. Thats where I usually open fire. My fighter gunnery % is around 6, but that is not the whole truth. Most of my jabo 110 sorties are counted in the fighter category...
Point is: in AH it is easy to kill a plane from 400 yards, even with the MG151/20 that I usually use. I've found Hispanos or .50s even more effective. In IL2, shooting from anywhere over 200-300 yards is pretty much a complete waste of bullets.
All this is fine by me, gunnery is very very much a gameplay balance issue. Apples and oranges... :)
Camo
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I can hit and do terminal damage at the same ranges in AH that I can in Il2.
I've only noticed it's easier to down a plane with a couple of 20mms when the plane is hit from above and at the convergence range.
-SW
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same sw, its not the range that is the big difference. Its the amount of damage. Ofcourse, the dm in ah and wbs is relatively simple but look at hristos pic. That pilot should be riddled wih holes.
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I love both games, agree with some posts, and disagree with others.
My main disagreement I guess is the gunnery. I dont feel the IL2 model is too hard, so much as I feel that the AH model is too easy. The hit sprites in AH could use some serious work.
Gotta love the smoke trails the tracers leave behind. And the different color tracers for different rounds for that matter.
AAA is top notch... AH really has some catching up to do here. You feel immersed - hundreds of ack bursts at the end of tracer trails - and only one MIGHT hit you... nice change from the sniper ack in AH.
Flight models... I dunno - they are "different" but not "bad." I still prefer the AH flight models, but thats just me.
Visuals are absolutely top notch. Nothing more needs to be said.
Viw system was an attempt at reality... I dont like it, some do.