Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Midnight on October 08, 2002, 12:00:45 PM
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OK.. I think the time has come to change the reset conditions in the MA. Recuding the enemy to only 1 field is complete BS with the current area numbers.
Last night, the Rooks were down to 3 fields (2 actually because the port don't count) with the Bish and Knights attcking both fields. This went on for at least 3 hours before the reset finally happened.
There is absolutely no fun to be had by the defending country in this situation. The shear number of players having to concentrate into one small section of the map make it very difficult to do anything. The fields were under constant vulch patrol and if you were lucky enough to get airborne, you had to face an onslaught of incoming bandits all of which had huge E advantage.
HTC has made the new server accomodate up to 700 players. How many do you think stay on if the country they are in is down to 2 airfields and there are 150+ on in each country?
The situation is even worse when the FH and VH are down, and the only thing you can do is TRY to roll a bomber. Yeah right... Can't fire defensive guns of the bombers on the ground, so you are a HUGE vulch target.
I think that these 'close to a reset' situations will cause a lot of customer dissatisfaction and could potentially loose business if it happens too often. And it does happen a lot. How many times have you logged in right at what seemed to be the brink of a reset, only to have the enemy hold on to the last one for hours?
When I was on last night, I took about a 2 hour break hoping that the reset would occur while I was away. However, when I logged back on, I was very disapointed to see that we were in the exact same situation as when I left. Stuck at two fields and a port. :rolleyes:
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(edit, wrong Midnight! :D)
Need I remind you of this? (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=66231&referrerid=3203) :D
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rooks need a white flag button....so the highest ranked rook can press it when they've had enough.
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I second that idea!!!
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Well I agree with Midnight (always have felt that way about resets).
I think I'd rather see a system where each country owned a core of uncapturable airfields. Instead of capturing all the airfields to reset a country, make the strat targets capturable (also enable GV's at these targets for defensive purposes, like the ports). When a country loses all its strat targets, then the war would be lost.
J_A_B
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The situation is even worse when the FH and VH are down, and the only thing you can do is TRY to roll a bomber. Yeah right... Can't fire defensive guns of the bombers on the ground, so you are a HUGE vulch target.
Don't try and roll a buff from a capped field: you are asking to be vulched. Bombers have no role in direct field defence nor should they. I and many others are glad that the days of ackstars and car-bombers are behind us.
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Don't take off from a capped field.
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Originally posted by Pei
Don't try and roll a buff from a capped field: you are asking to be vulched. Bombers have no role in direct field defence nor should they. I and many others are glad that the days of ackstars and car-bombers are behind us.
And the community said "AAAAAA-MEN!"
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I have allways felt that a reset should occur when a country is down to two fields.
lazs
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A white flag button..
So the highest ranking pilot in the arena could change to Rooks and push the white flag, like in the way months back when he possessed the TG and set it out with an intent for intentionally letting the other team sink it?
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I normally try to avoid calling people stupid, but.....
Originally posted by Pei
Don't try and roll a buff from a capped field: you are asking to be vulched. Bombers have no role in direct field defence nor should they. I and many others are glad that the days of ackstars and car-bombers are behind us.
Originally posted by Sixpence
Don't take off from a capped field.
Originally posted by Ripsnort
And the community said "AAAAAA-MEN!"
Did you read what I said? We had two fields, both of which were under direct attack. The VH and FH were both down at one of the fields, and the other field was too far away. It was bombers or nothing.
There have been cases however, when we have been down to two fields and the only thing you could do is roll a small bomber because VH, FH and ords were all disabled.
Really, if the enemy is down to those conditions, the war is over. reset the map already.
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I don't think so.
Rankings are scores. Not leadership stripes. The highest ranked anybody in here does not have my support for anything.
Particularly quitting.
HONK!
Gooss
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Originally posted by Midnight
Really, if the enemy is down to those conditions, the war is over. reset the map already.
No, your plain wrong Midnight. The enemy in this case chooses when the war is over for you, thats when THEY decide to capture that last field of the two remaining. Don't like it? Cap better next time. :)
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there have been times when a country was down to 2-3 bases and made a come back.
44MAG
surrender hell
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Originally posted by john9001
there have been times when a country was down to 2-3 bases and made a come back.
44MAG
surrender hell
And they were always Knights. They're the only country with the intestinal fortitude to do a comeback like that (Well, okay, a year ago, today with all the new players, its up in the air...)
I can remember a Saturday morning (5am my time) where we had the Isles map, lower left hand corner (otherwise known as Coffin Corner back then)...3 bases and the Bish badgering us about being in Coffin Corner. A few of us got pissed...8 hours later we reset that map, and reset two more maps within 24 hours. I think I flew 20 of 24 hours that day, as the wife and kids were visiting relatives in the east. :)
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White flag?? You must be kidding! :D
We dont do things that way. We may log out but white flag... no...;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
And they were always Knights.
WRONG!!!!!!!
I seem to recall just a month or two ago. the Bishops being down to two fields on NDIsles, yet we made the comeback and stomped Knights into submission.
Always knights!:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
No, your plain wrong Midnight. The enemy in this case chooses when the war is over for you, thats when THEY decide to capture that last field of the two remaining. Don't like it? Cap better next time. :)
Rip,
You are usuaully an intelligent person with well thought out posts. That statement is asinine. For the numbers that are now present on a regular basis, the idea of forcing an entire country to operate from 2 fields under constant heavy attack is just plain ludicrous. I would rather log off and wait for the reset instead of trying to defend one of the fields, especially if VH and all FHs are down.
And the THEY statement is even more of a laugh. Don't try to imply that there is some grand leading force of organization in the melee that ensues around the final fields. When it comes to that, it's just shear weight of numbers and luck that allows the capture, not some "Generaldweebaroo" council that gives the final order to end the misery.
Just imagine how incredibly poor the server performance would be if the arena were 75% full and 50% of the fighting was happening at one field as a supressed country tried to fight back.
Let's see.. 700 allowed in the arena, 75% would be 525. Assuming all countries have equal numbers :rolleyes: that would be 175 players per country. Of that 175, let's say about 80% are trying to defend the larger field (A15 on the Isles map). That puts the number at 140 from one country. Now, the other side is pushing for a reset or just having a blast furball vulching the poor bastards, so they have 70% of there numbers in the same location. That's another 122 players. Now if 50% of the 122 is always attacking or vulching, then there would be 61 enemy at the field. Couple that with 75% the defending country's players (105) and you get 166 players in a nice small area. What's the icon limit again?
The field capture parameter should be strat targets, or increased to 3 or 4 fields. One is far too few these days.
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Originally posted by john9001
there have been times when a country was down to 2-3 bases and made a come back.
44MAG
surrender hell
Yeah, and that is only because of numbers shifting sides. I think it is well known that certain time zones have more players as either Rooks, Bishop or Knights.
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I don't care one way or another about a WHITE FLAG deal, I wanna
all the rooks who hung in there during the SEVEN hours that I know of in which we were down to two bases most of the time, sometime up to a whopping 3 bases, all the while facing almost 4:1 odds.
One of two things was happening, or a combination of the two:
The bishnits didn't WANT to reset, they were having too much fun padding their scores with the rooks bottled up in that two field area. I lean toward this scenario because I only saw one goon and four M3's the whole time I was online during the siege, and our esteemed enemies made repeated raids on our HQ to try and blind our radar.
OR
The rooks just plain fought like demons and wouldn't allow a reset to happen. I kinda like this idea, as the teamwork I saw yesterday was pretty impressive, lots of talk on VOX, lotsa camraderie you don't always see when you fly rook.
to whichever side finally got the reset, I was having fun killin and gettin killed, had to log off for the night about 10PM so I could get some shuteye.
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capt midnight, i don't know if you were on last night but a major battle surged over the map, for hours the rooks defended their few bases and very well i might add
rooks, the bish and knights were tied for bases and the lead went back and forth, bish take a base then knights take a base.
it was some of the best game play i've seen in the MA , tactics were discussed, missions were sent , some made it , some failed, huge furballs ensued, trade this base for that one, ......
finely after hours of hard fought battles one side won.
a big salute to all who flew.
44MAG
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Midnight,
I'm glad someone has started a string like this. Your ideas have nothing to do with anybody being outnumbered. You're approach deals with everybody. I would be sooooooo happy if one of
the above mentioned ideas was implemented.
Losing a reset doesnt necessarily bother me,but the way its lost often does. Having
an hour or two to fly, only to log on and see
that a bunch of people jumped ship and left the last couple bases to be defended by a hardy few is
very disappointing. <<<< rambling sentence :-)
That's not fun to me, and not worth $15 a month.
Any suggestions about trying to even out the numbers just gets laughed at by the members of
countries that dont often experience it. Your approach seems more valid.
HeadBang
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I made a suggestion to stop this type of nonsense a year ago. HT needs to code in a random generator so the arena resets when the losing side gets down to between 1 to 5 fields. This will help keep the vulchfests down as the "winning" sides won't know if the reset will happen in 5 or 1 field. Not doing this means the losing team can be kept down and vulched indefinately. Pretty sad way to keep customers.
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Well as a Rook, and former Squadmate of Midnight, I gotta say that I think he is wrong on this one.
Last night happened the way it did only because the Bish and Kinigits were tied or within 1 field of each other, and neither wanted to end the thing. Couple that with a bunch of us Rooks flying suicide defense missions in dweeb planes and you have last nights scenario.
It usually doesn't happen like that, and it is hardly a reason to change the rules.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
No, your plain wrong Midnight. The enemy in this case chooses when the war is over for you, thats when THEY decide to capture that last field of the two remaining. Don't like it? Cap better next time. :)
Tell ya what nit fanboi
Next time we're in that situation I'll do exactly like I did last night. squeak about it a little while I'm waiting on hangers, and when I've finally had enough of the vulch fest (which doesn't take long) I'll log and go play something else.
And we won't mention that it's a rare occasion when the rooks actually have parity in numbers and can keep themselves out of the hole.
Oh, and Rip, it's always been the southeast (lower right) that has been the hole ever since this map was introduced.
Originally posted by john9001
capt midnight, i don't know if you were on last night but a major battle surged over the map, for hours the rooks defended their few bases and very well i might add rooks, the bish and knights were tied for bases and the lead went back and forth, bish take a base then knights take a base.
You obviously missed what was going. The bishits and nitwits were merely holding the Rooks down in the hole while they slugged it out to see which of them would win. There was even a brief discussion about it on channel 1.
But something needs to be done, last night was not alot of fun if you were a Rook. I went and played F4 SP3 for awhile.
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""""The bishits and nitwits were merely holding the Rooks down in the hole while they slugged it out to see which of them would win. """"
i thought thats how the game was played? BTW i never call the other sides names ( bishits and nitwits ) ok , some times i say "bishords", but , we are all here to have fun, if you are not maybe you should rethink your use of leisure time.
44MAG
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I really felt sorry for the rooks the other day, when they were down to 2 fields.
nits and bish had about even number of fields, so none of them wanted to capture a rook field 'cos then the other country would capture the second and win.
this situation just went on and on - thrilling for nits & bish, but what did the rooks do to deserve this?
Bozon
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
(edit, wrong Midnight! :D)
Need I remind you of this? (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=66231&referrerid=3203) :D
Rip, what does my gloating have anything to do with the issue presented here? Midnight isn't whining here. It's just suggestion made for the game.
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my white flag comment was tongue cheek, didn't realize it would take as a legit proposal.
Discontented posts like these are going to keep coming up as long as the reset concept dominates the MA.
The idea of having to reset a country to win the war is a bad one. The maps should be reconfigured so that each country has a handful of non-capturable fields. The host in turn will be set to track statistics for each country much like it does for each player. Whichever country meets the victory conditions (ie 50,000 enemy a/c destroyed or a certain K/D mark...work in some bombing concept for the buff guys....the specifics are debatable) causes the map to reset.
No gangbangs, no suicide raids to capture fields, no lamers switching sides when the reset is inevitable. Instead a more legitimate "winner" based on skill in AH's 3 scoring categories, not sheer numbers.
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Originally posted by bozon
I really felt sorry for the rooks the other day, when they were down to 2 fields.
nits and bish had about even number of fields, so none of them wanted to capture a rook field 'cos then the other country would capture the second and win.
this situation just went on and on - thrilling for nits & bish, but what did the rooks do to deserve this?
Bozon
It's habit in the old timers, and the new comers take thier cues from them. So far as I know, and this was back in beta days, the Rooks are the only country to hold the other two down only 2 fields each at the same time. And all the while giving the strat system a good work out by keeping those 2nit and 2bish bases down to 25% fuel w/ no ord or troops.
john I have rethought my leisure time. Lotta the old timers can tell ya I don't spend near the amount of time in the arenas as I used to. Hell if ya really want you can go look up my scores and compare time spent in the arena over the last few tours to time spent 6-8 months ago. And I've been calling them bishits and nitwits for as long as I can remember :D Like I said, when that situation comes up I'll squeak about it a little and then go play something else. /shrug
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"""", the Rooks are the only country to hold the other two down only 2 fields each at the same time. """"
absolute statments are foolish , the rooks are not the only country to do that, i was on line when the knights did it, pushed the rooks, bish from 5 each to 4 to 3 to 2 bases each then won the reset.
44MAG
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Originally posted by john9001
i was on line when the knights did it, pushed the rooks, bish from 5 each to 4 to 3 to 2 bases each then won the reset.
44MAG
good little hamstard... have a treat...
:D
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I like the white flag idea.
My twist on it:
When a country gets down to 3 (or maybe even 4 or 5) fields, the players of that country automatically can vote for or against surrender (a window could appear in the tower).
If half (or whatever %) of that county's voting players vote for surrender, the map resets. Of course, a reasonable portion of the country must vote either way before the votes are tallied.
Basically its the same idea as Hornet's except request for vote is automatic, instead of brought about by highest ranking player.
eskimo
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Originally posted by john9001
"""", the Rooks are the only country to hold the other two down only 2 fields each at the same time. """"
absolute statments are foolish , the rooks are not the only country to do that, i was on line when the knights did it, pushed the rooks, bish from 5 each to 4 to 3 to 2 bases each then won the reset.
44MAG
Really, must we send you to a reading comprehension class? Or did you just miss the 'So far as I know'? I've seen the nits put the rooks down, I've seen the bish put the rooks down, and I've seen the bish-nit put the rooks down and hold them. I've yet to see the bish or nits put both of the other 2 countries down to only 2 bases and hold'em there the same the rooks did so long, long ago. And while I used to spend much more time in the arena than I should have, I wasn't online 24/7 and if one of the other did have both opposing countries down to only 2 bases each it was a short go that I missed.
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not to hijack a thread but read this thread from Gameplay feedback...
Suffering from the BigPac Burnout Syndrome (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53399)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well as a Rook, and former Squadmate of Midnight, I gotta say that I think he is wrong on this one.
Last night happened the way it did only because the Bish and Kinigits were tied or within 1 field of each other, and neither wanted to end the thing. Couple that with a bunch of us Rooks flying suicide defense missions in dweeb planes and you have last nights scenario.
It usually doesn't happen like that, and it is hardly a reason to change the rules.
I'm not saying that the knights and Bishops were doing anything wrong by not winning the war. I am saying that the number of fields to win the war should be more than 1. If the number was 4, then in the same situation, The knights and the bishops would have stopped at 6, instead of 3. If the Rooks had 6 fields left, we could then have mounted a suitable counter-attack and not have had to endure hours of constant vulching.
With the current reset conditions of 1 field, it is theoreticly possible to take EVERY single airfield a country has and leave them with just 2 ports and no CV groups. Now tell me, how much fun would it be to log in to the game only to find that the only two bases you have are ports and the VHs were already destroyed?
Yeah.. that would be so cool :rolleyes:
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"With the current reset conditions of 1 field, it is theoreticly possible to take EVERY single airfield a country has and leave them with just 2 ports and no CV groups. Now tell me, how much fun would it be to log in to the game only to find that the only two bases you have are ports and the VHs were already destroyed?"
If this theorectical case were to ever present itself, the reset will happen VERY quickly and not linger on for 3 hours, so the "suffering" would not be that long and painfull.