Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Gremlin on November 09, 2001, 07:45:00 AM
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Just been looking at the fighter stats and the top 3 are as follows
1 - MDMTY Kills 0 Sorties 1 Death 1
2 - Kuso Kills 182 Assists 36 Sorties 206
Death 151 (Excl Ditches)
k/d 1.1269 kills p/s: .8835
3 - Ypsilon Kills 224 Assists 53 Sorties 53
Death 10 (Excl Ditches)
k/d 17.92 Kills p/s 4.22
Now this teels me that there is something very wrong with the ranking system. Firstly what is a guy with no kills who died on his only sortie doing at number 1. Surely Ypsilon deserves to be ahead of Kuso. (Kuso and Ypsilon I mean no disrespect to either, just crunchin the numbers). Am I missing the point?
I don't place any store on ranking primarily because it seems so meaningless BTW before you look I'm 311th so this isn't a gripe in anyway related to my lowly rank.
<S>
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Flt.Lt.Gremlin
56th Firebirds "Fighter" Squadron RAF.
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'
[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Gremlin ]
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im not sure but it might have to do with how many deaths per mission?
just a guess?
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When the ranks were first introduced I did try to achieve a good position. But for some reason even when I had an overall k/d of 6.0+ (90+ kills for 15 deaths, I think), I couldn't get into the top 100 for fighter score. When I looked at the pilots ahead of me many them had very low k/d, so I assumed score was decided by other parameters in some sort of formula.
These days, I just concentrate on k/d for one aircraft and pay virtually no attention to the ranks.
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Rank 719 1025 944 1494 1214
dude i just plan suck!!!
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Rank & score mean nothing, they are the carrot that keeps you on the hamster wheel :)
In the words of Arnold
"To drive your enemy's before you like cattle, to hear the lamentations of their women"
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The true purpose is not to count kills and ranks and make a score but to stay alive and make the enemy sorry that he ever decided to fly today. :D
(P.S.:- U wont find me on the ranks :D )
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True, ranks mean absolutely nothing. But it gets rather annoying when some dweeb starts badgering you. Couple of weeks back I killed this dude (nameless) and killed him rather easily. He tuned me private saluted me and asked me how i did what i'd just done. I proceeded to offer one or two lines of advice. About 10 minutes later the guy tunes me again and starts a tirade of abuse along the lines of "Who the hell did i think i was telling him how to fite when he was a whole 50 places above me in the fiter ranks"
The fact that his k/d etc were a small fraction of mine didn't really cross his mind.
Yeah this guy is just a dweeb but the ranking page lends these dweebs credance.
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Flt.Lt.Gremlin
56th Firebirds "Fighter" Squadron RAF.
Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'
(http://null)
[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Gremlin ]
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Rank matters a hell of a lot when you're arguing about use of the CV.
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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P.S. game ID is SwoopGB. Havnt been outta the top 100 in 18 months.
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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Depends on pilot. SOme guys can fly and have horraible K/D but if you look you see alot of goon flights and such, some just fly alot, some are just damn good. I always look at the stats that show kills and deaths in various planes.
Anyway... it'll all come out in the wash when you get that occasional 1 on 1. :)
xBAT
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The ranking system does seem strange.
Last tour, my first in a year, I was ranked as high as 3, hovered mainly in the low 20's, and ended up 51 or so I think, after not flying for a week.
My stats well, were, unimpressive at best. 1.7/1 kd ratio, landed MAYBE 15% of the time etc. The one thing I did was go on a big tear in a Panzer once, and a PT boat another time, as well as Capture about 4 or 5 bases. This gave me a strong 20's ranking.
Well, I'm with a great squad now, flying a new plane for me, and I've decided (it's sort of been decided for me :p) to fly a different way. Im 4.5/1 KD now, and landing over 50% of the time. My rank SUCKS now, somewhere in the 400's.
Bottom line is, rank means nothing at the moment in terms of FIGHTER ability IMO. I'm ten times the pilot I was last month (thanks to my squaddies instructions), yet I'm ranked 20 times worse. LOL!
God I love this game!
(http://www.13thtas.com/bagpipesig.jpg)
[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Bagpipe ]
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Rank is a peculiar and strange beast in AH. The July tour I believe I was ranked the highest I have ever been. The problem with that was the statistics that I carried really didn’t match the rank I was at. Unfortunately I was forced to stay at home for most of that month and reluctantly had nothing to do but play AH :D. The shear amount of time I was on started dictating my “rank”.
I’ve started concerning myself with the breakout of specific aircraft to see how I am doing as well as the K/D ratio. I try and strive for at least 2.0 in both the fighter and attack categories and anything better is icing. The K/D ratio is a much better measurement IMO.
Zippatuh
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rank whats that....................
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I don't think much about my own rank, sure I'd like to be in the top 20 or whatever, which I could if I put effort into it. It's just that many pilots style of flying doesn't work well with a ranking system. Fer instance, last night a few squaddies and I were capturing fields. Goon was near the field's city, one con in the area, I was in a C-Hog after killing the city, I had to pick up the con (get him to follow me) south away from the field. I was low on fuel and knew I would lose those 8 perk points, but that wasn't important. The important thing was to drag that P38 as far south as I could and not kill him. If I kill him he ups back at his base where our goon is. So, in order to reach our goal I had to get killed. :) I ran outa fuel and let the P38 kill me. He was 15 miles away from his field.
Mission accomplished.
Rank reflects people who fly to live. That isn't real easy to do, and I respect that. But in order to be a teamplayer in your squad, you'll have to be the sacrificial lamb occasionally. It hurts my score. But I don't keeer! :cool:
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I paid attention to rank for a while. I noticed no correlation between my rank and how well I was flying. So I ignore it now.
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Actually rank represents a combination of all things:
For example, someone has an excellent gunnery % (20% lets say), .030 kills/time online, but a 2.33kills/sortie and 1.37 kills/death.
This reflects that he furballs a lot, dies a lot, but his gunnery is very good.
I don't know how it's weighted or factored- but the more kills/timeonline, AND the more kills/death AND kills/sortie means that your rank will in fact be very high.
Not to get into a debate, but if someone can manage .030 kills/time online and hold a 4.00k/d- then he should definitely be ranked higher than someone who has 15kills/death but only .002 kills/time online.
Why? One pilot is able to kill quickly and survive long enough to get 4 of them (hypothetically speaking of course) while the guy with a 15k/d takes forever to get each kill.
Just my opinion, but I believe that's how the scoring system works as well.
-SW
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Ahem, AH rankings and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee at a diner........
Personally I still fail to see where the times factor has a darn thing to do with how good a gamer you are....
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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Because it's easy to get up high on a perch and just wait around for easy pickings.
In a furball it's a lot harder to do something like that- chances are you are fighting a lot of good sticks.
-SW
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kills per sortie and and per time online imho have to great an impact on "rank".
I certainly understand that they need to be factored in somewhere and to a degree I agree with sw.
Our squad takes a level of satisfaction at our squad rank. Thats because its a result of all us working together.
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The secret ingrediant to your RANK is the Member Rating on this web board.
I gave you a five just for gits and shiggles! :)
Westy
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Hblair said:
I was low on fuel and knew I would lose those 8 perk points, but that wasn't important. The important thing was to drag that P38 as far south as I could and not kill him. If I kill him he ups back at his base where our goon is. So, in order to reach our goal I had to get killed. I ran outa fuel and let the P38 kill me. He was 15 miles away from his field.
Mission accomplished.
Now thats what I call flying as a team.
Yours is a squad worth flying with IMHO :D
I hope your squad recognized your sacrifice.
Hope sometime soon to be able to meet ya in the skies.
Awulf
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I think that your ranking is taken from the combination of all your rankings (bomber fighter gv) is it not? So somebody can be a really good fighter pilot and not do anything in gvs and have a low ranking overall. Also I think whoever said that about multi kill missions increasing your rankings it right, I had my personal best mission last week (10 kills, ground and air in a jug) and I had the mission scored as an attack mission since I was originally going as a jabo. My attack score went to the top 100 after that mission and hasnt fallen far since. I agree that the system has some faults and failings and shouldnt be looked at as an absolute indicator as to who the best pilot is. However it does provide some level of general indication. I look at it like the college football rankings. The number one ranked team in college football may not be the best team in the nation necessarily and may actually get beat by a lesser ranked team but as a general indicator the ranked teams are the best. I view it the same here. Despite its flaws and the mistakes made by the system I would say that the ranking system here provides at least an indication of relatively how good a pilot is. I think that it is safe to say that most of the pilots in the top 100 deserve to be there with only a few exceptions. As to the people that say dont pay attention to rankings, just have fun, well I understand where they are coming from but for some people, trying to work your way to top of rankings IS fun. It provides a goal to work for, some way to see how good you are doing relative to the others. Again, I dont think that player ranked numer 556 is necessarily any better than #557 but in general, (100s better than 200s etc)it works as intended. If you dont care about rankings, fine, dont worry about it. However, I do agree with the guy that chose mission success over a possible better score and ranking. I would choose that anytime. If I see a field about to fall, I will up repeatedly trying to stop the enemy even though I know that I will get vulched again and again hurting my scores, but I saved a field the other day by getting airborne just long enough to kill one paratrooper. That matters to me more than rankings although I still enjoy trying to advance my rankings as much as I can.
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Being fairly new to the game, I've noticed that the ranks extend well into the thousands. Are there that many people playing AH?
I don't pay attention to my rank that much. I'm trying to get my k/d ratio higher and working on boosting my hit percentage. That's what counts to me. I know I fly with a bunch of guys in my squad who are better pilots than I am, but since they do the heavy lifting of gunning buffs and piloting goons they don't get ranked high but are vitally important to our success
skbaine
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ok about wilson well not to sure if some one posted about this already but....... me and few other guys was wondering why wilson had like 30+ kills in a sorti. what i think is that some on the knights team was spawing and dieing for him... OR he has to accounts.. and killing one accout with wislon.
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bs jackknife
All of us in here have seen vulches hit 30. It aint the guy vulchin whos wrong its the dum basses who keep uppin and gettin killed.
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ok about wilson well not to sure if some one posted about this already but....... me and few other guys was wondering why wilson had like 30+ kills in a sorti. what i think is that some on the knights team was spawing and dieing for him... OR he has to accounts.. and killing one accout with wislon.
Besides what would that prove? Nearly everyone in here has stated they hardly pay attention to the ranks anyway. When it comes down do it its how you fair in the skies against other skilled pilots that is the real test of skill.
And I agree with Wontan that its most likely from vulching - we've all done it at one time or another :D
Awulf
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err Wotan I mean :)
Awulf
...or is it Awful?...
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Much of the current ranking system is strange. First of all it clearly favors those who live fast and die hard in quick, low altitude furballs near base. Getting 1 kill for 1 death in 1 minute seems to rank you higher than getting 5 kills per one death in 20 minutes. Im not sure if hit accuracy is factored in, Im going to check that out next tour.....Im not firing till I can see the nuts on thier tail :eek:
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Here's how it works:
Overall Rank:
Combine your rankings in fighters, bombers, attack and Gvs. Whoever has the smallest number is #1, next smallest is #2 etc.
Example; #1 ranked may have F=6, B=3, A=5 and GV=8. His total would then be 22.
#2 may have F=5, B=11, A=2, GV=9. His total would then be 27.
It's as simple as that.
Now suppose that someone was ranked #1 in fighters, bombers and attack, but hardly ever did Gvs and therefore was ranked 1000th in that category. His total # would be 1003, probably ranking him somewhere between #75 and 100 overall. If he never did a GV sortie, he would probably have a total of about 2503, ranking him about 200th.
The key to ranking well is to not suck at any one thing.
Individual Category Ranks:
Works just like Overall, but there are 5 to 10 sub-categories.
The problem is that we cannot see how individuals stack up against the field in each sub-category because it is not listed.
Let's look at fighter ranking for example:
The #1 ranked fighter pilot may have K/D of 4, K/S of 2, KT of .0030, Hit% =20, and points = 30,000
The #2 ranked fighter pilot may have a K/D of 20, K/S of 5, KT of .0020, Hit% =15, and points = 30,000
It may look like pilot # 2 is better, but if we look how they are ranked in each sub-category, we will see that pilot #2s KT of .0020 is really holding him back.
Approximate Sub-Category Ranks (just my guesses):
Pilot #1
K/D of 4 = Ranked 30th
K/S of 2 = Ranked 35th
K/T of .0030 = Ranked 25th
Hit% of 15 = Ranked 20th
Points at 30,000 = Ranked 10th (tie)
Pilot #1 Total = 110
Pilot #2
K/D of 20 = Ranked 3rd
K/S of 5 = Ranked 7th
K/T of .0020 = Ranked 130th
Hit% of 20 = Ranked 10th
Points at 30,000 = Ranked 10th (tie)
Pilot #2 Total = 160
Conclusion; Pilot #2 has 1 weakness, most of his point/ranks are in K/T. He needs to furball more to improve his rank. His K/D and K/S may fall a bit, but his fighter rank will improve with riskier furballing.
Pilot #1 is better rounded with no real weaknesses.
Instinctively we may be more impressed and in awe with pilot #2. The ranking system, however, is impressed by nothing. It just crunches cold numbers and spits out results.
I used K/T for this example because it is probably the most overlooked sub-category since it is such an abstract number. All 5 sub-categories have an equal impact on fighter rank.
The key to ranking well is to not suck at any one thing
eskimo
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As far as what ranks mean...
I think Durr said it well in the latter part of his post.
Rank is a general indication of skill and ability.
If we were to compare the top 20 fighter pilots to those ranked 101 to 120, as a whole, the first group should outperform the second, however you measure it.
Individually, however, a few pilots from the 101-120 group may be "better" (whatever that is) than a few or even most of the 1-20 group.
Great pilots may "screw-up" their fighter ranks by sraffing things in fighter mode, or repeatedly taking off from vulched fields.
On the same note, not-as-great pilots may enhance their score by never taking off from vulched fields or straffing objects while in fighter mode.
A pilot's ranking surely does not mean that he is better than all who are ranked below him, nor does it mean that he is worse than those who are ranked above him. It is, however, as Durr stated, an indication of his approximate skill and ability, give or take... who knows what.
It can be fun for some to work on improving rank. Others could care less. Take it or leave it, it is what it is.
As far as I'm concerned, rank-shmank. I beat Ypsilon in a same-plane 1 V 1 last night! (Like I'll do that again!) :)
eskimo
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Eskimo explained it good. You can find how the scoring system works in the AH help, or read Eskimo post. Better do it both. Actually to be high you need to be good in everything. Some games "features" or "bugs" can improve your ranking big way also, like the latest bug with getting capture in attacking category.
Those who say that rank is nothing, and those who overprise it are both wrong. Actually, you are fighting pilot, not his rank. If he fights good, gives you a hard time, and even kills you -- send him <S>. If he is 1st or 1000th does not matter here, he put your abilities close to extreme and still showed you that you have some space to progress.
I once payed a lot of attention to ranks, now I fly for strat almost exclusively -- and I found that any way you play is justified, while it is interesting for you and you have a respect for other players.
Fariz
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The most important factor is gunnery hit %.
I can have very high K/D of 5/1 or over 10 to 1 or better if I try and fly carefully.
I can have very good kills per sortie.
I can have kills/time in the .30s.
But my gunnery is very low, something like .05 .
So I always rank very low in fighters, i rarely if ever get into the 100s.
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But sometimes its a complete potato peelin mystery to me. Ive seen a few times where im significantly higher than a guy in every fighter category yet he is ranked much better in figters.
So after seeing things like that I just dont care! :)
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GRUNHETZ;
The most important thing for YOU is hit %.
For me it is either K/S or Points.
They are all weighted the same.
Whatever your weakest area is, is most important for you, not everyone.
eskimo
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Eskimo got it all right.
What you need to improve your rank is individual. To gain rank fast, improve the stat you are doing worst in.
Speaking of fighter rank I personally need more points. I don't fly much so I am pretty low in that catagory. Rest of my skills are around average excecpt my hit% which is good.
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I feel the scoring is definitly porked...Last tour Terror had very average stats(no offense Bro Terror) but was ranked #1 for some time comapred to others that had better stats in every category I noticed..In fact it was a joke..Also I find if you do well in the first week with kills,shoot % etc..for some reason your ranking seems to remain high as opposed to trying to climb in the latter weeks,even if you score very well...I know I'm wrong with this analogy,but this is my impressions of how the rankings has worked for me.
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I dunno about that. I hardly got to fly last month because of working until the end of the month. Going into the last week I was ranked like 1200. After about five days of intense flying i moved up to 356 for the final ranking. After playing almost every night this month so far I am pretty much about the same place (370 i think) after briefly being as high the upper 200s. Two good spells of futile efforts at defending airfields against overwhelming numbers of vulchers dropped me back and murdered my k/d ratio. So I dont think first or last of month has much to do with it. It is a purely mathematical system and as such, just like the BCS system for determining which teams play in the national championship bowl series in college football, it will get criticism for not taking into account more subjective factors. However as has been well stated in previous posts, take it or leave it, it does what its intended to do. Those that dont like it, what would you prefer, not having one at all? In that case, just ignore it. Those of us that like it can enjoy browsing through the statistics to our hearts content. I think there is something genetic in guys though that just causes us to like useless statistics. What else can explain the popularity of sports statistics that are kept on everything conceivable. example: "Joe Blow is at the plate, he is .500 against lefthanded, Catholic pitchers from the Northeast." Why else would I happily sit here eating pizza, drinking coke, and poring over endless pages of AH statistics dating back to the summer. :)
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There is a bug that ranks a few folks unusually high or even #1, for no apparent reason. Usually it is temporary (an hour or two), but sometimes they hold a high rank at the end of a tour.
eskimo
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Ive got the sensation that rank is not useful in judging the skill everyone flies.
I mean if u fly conservative and u try to land safely, u have a small number of kill and so little death, u have a high K/D but sure your K/time on line is very small, u will never had a position in the first 100.
If u fly furball,u kill a lot but die a lot as well, your k/D is poor but u have a high K/time on line, and your position is surely higher.
Despite the fact that everyone is free to fly as he likes, what u think is the more realistic between two, and which of two would be encouraged with a good pointing system??
Anyway i agree that statistics are useful for personal use, to improve the way you flight, to know what are your improvement areas, and not to compare players skillness (almost not all)
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I had to pick up the con (get him to follow me) south away from the field. I was low on fuel and knew I would lose those 8 perk points, but that wasn't important. The important thing was to drag that P38 as far south as I could and not kill him. If I kill him he ups back at his base where our goon is. So, in order to reach our goal I had to get killed. I ran outa fuel and let the P38 kill me. He was 15 miles away from his field.
hblair I was the 38, flying it for the 1st time in months. I was aware of you dragging me south to accomplish your mission <S>. I was surprised I achieved a victory, even more so when I discovered it was you. Now that I know the circumstances, I know how lucky I was.
But... I did make it back to the town and killed your goon. :p