Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SaburoS on October 11, 2002, 05:03:42 AM
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Latest Nobel Peace Prize winner:
Latest Nobel Peace Prize winner (http://dailynews.attbi.com/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=021011&cat=news&st=newsnobelpeacedc)
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LOL
What kind of drugs the comittee is using ????
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Originally posted by babek-
LOL
What kind of drugs the comittee is using ????
Why shouldn't Carter get it? He's done more since he's been out of office to help poor people and promote peace than just about anybody I can think of. His whole life since he was president has been committed to helping people.
Carter's one of those guys who made a lousy president, but practices what he preaches on the outside. WTG nobel commitee! A hell of a lot better than giving one to the likes of bill clinton or yessir arabfoot er... arafat.
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This man is reponsible that Iran was coming under control of the islamic fanatics.
When the Shah of Iran left the Iran he gave the command of the imperial troops an US-General.
All of the imperial iranian generals in the high command wanted to fight immediately the coming up islamic revolution but they were ordered to wait because Ayatollah Khomeini was seen by Carter as a "second Ghandi which hasnt to be stopped".
When the Air France plane with Khomeini entered iranian territory the IIAF wanted to shoot the plane down - but it was forbidden by the US-advisors of Carter.
So the chaos started: US-embassy-hostage, Iran-Iraq-War, a tremendous rise of terrorist activities, Lebanon, Afghanistan, 2nd Gulf War and much more.
And the most important thing is the fact that because of this idiot Carter the USA and Israel lost the Iran as an allied base.
Without this policy the non-arabic nations of Israel, Turkey and Iran could today control the region and a mad Saddam which is threatening the World wouldnt exist.
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Sorry bit JC isn nothing more than a white Jesse Jackson!
Not racist but sticks his nose into everything that doesn't concern him just to promote himself or his cause.
Granted he does a lot of good but to give him a Nobel? Please!!!
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He must be close to death.
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Originally posted by Udie
Why shouldn't Carter get it? He's done more since he's been out of office to help poor people and promote peace than just about anybody I can think of. His whole life since he was president has been committed to helping people.
Carter's one of those guys who made a lousy president, but practices what he preaches on the outside. WTG nobel commitee! A hell of a lot better than giving one to the likes of bill clinton or yessir arabfoot er... arafat.
I'm with Udie on this one...
Kinda feels strange though. :)
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Sorry bit JC isn nothing more than a white Jesse Jackson!
Not racist but sticks his nose into everything that doesn't concern him just to promote himself or his cause.
Granted he does a lot of good but to give him a Nobel? Please!!!
Darn those people with personal agendas...
Like peace, human rights and the elimination of suffering. Just can't trust someone like that, can ya?
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Lol Sand, my exact thoughts (re Udie).
He was an.... erhm... innefective Prez, but he's a good man.
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Originally posted by Udie
Why shouldn't Carter get it? He's done more since he's been out of office to help poor people and promote peace than just about anybody I can think of. His whole life since he was president has been committed to helping people.
Carter's one of those guys who made a lousy president, but practices what he preaches on the outside. WTG nobel commitee! A hell of a lot better than giving one to the likes of bill clinton or yessir arabfoot er... arafat.
Right on Udie :)
I'll add for those not deserving .... Sharon and Bush.
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Originally posted by babek-
This man is reponsible that Iran was coming under control of the islamic fanatics.
When the Shah of Iran left the Iran he gave the command of the imperial troops an US-General.
All of the imperial iranian generals in the high command wanted to fight immediately the coming up islamic revolution but they were ordered to wait because Ayatollah Khomeini was seen by Carter as a "second Ghandi which hasnt to be stopped".
When the Air France plane with Khomeini entered iranian territory the IIAF wanted to shoot the plane down - but it was forbidden by the US-advisors of Carter.
So the chaos started: US-embassy-hostage, Iran-Iraq-War, a tremendous rise of terrorist activities, Lebanon, Afghanistan, 2nd Gulf War and much more.
And the most important thing is the fact that because of this idiot Carter the USA and Israel lost the Iran as an allied base.
Without this policy the non-arabic nations of Israel, Turkey and Iran could today control the region and a mad Saddam which is threatening the World wouldnt exist.
LOL! Puullleeeezzzeee. Check your history. Carter didn't put the Shah into power in the mid 50's. The Shah was not a popular dictator among his people. Carter's not the idiot here. You better look in the mirror before you start calling names 'cause the idiot appears to be you.
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hehe knew I'd turn some heads :D
Seriously though this guy has done A LOT for the homeless and needy since he's been out of office. Anybody here have a clue how many houses for the poor he has built with his own hands? His wife too....
Doesn't mean I always agree with him when he gets on one of his political missions, but you know at least he does put his money where his mouth is. It doesn't mean I agree with his methods of gaining peace either, it's just that I believe that he does actually believe all that stuff and he has the integrity to work for it....
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Originally posted by Udie
hehe knew I'd turn some heads :D
Seriously though this guy has done A LOT for the homeless and needy since he's been out of office. Anybody here have a clue how many houses for the poor he has built with his own hands? His wife too....
Doesn't mean I always agree with him when he gets on one of his political missions, but you know at least he does put his money where his mouth is. It doesn't mean I agree with his methods of gaining peace either, it's just that I believe that he does actually believe all that stuff and he has the integrity to work for it....
It's official then. Jimmy Carter is off limits... please continue your political jabs in the direction of Clinton, Bush, and Gore. Move along. Nothing to see here. :D
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Hey Mister.
I was there and know what I am speaking about.
Because of this weak idiot Carter parts of my family have been killed and others had to flee and now live in the USA , Canada and Europe.
Carter had got control of the imperial iranian forces when the Shah left Iran. He didnt allowed any military actiosn against the islamics and so the chance was lost to avaoid Khomeini and his terror.
And maybe the Shah was a dictator - but at least under his rule the iraquis around this monkey Saddam wouldnt dare to attack Iran, which was one of the strongest and best equipped military powers in the region.
Because of the revolution and the loss of imperial officers who were executed or went to exile Saddam thought he could win.
The consequence was that Iraq was loosing soon the war and had to get all these high tech weapons to hold the line against the islamic iranian forces.
And after Gulf War One this Frankenstein Saddam with all his new toy-weapons attacked Kuwait - so the USA had to intervene and stop Saddam.
Even today this conflict hasnt been solved and Bush jr. had to finish the job.
This bastard peanut farmer is responsible for the death of millions in the region - but when they gave the nobel price to terrorists like Arafat or Begin its absolutely OK that they also give it to someone like Carter.
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MT just because he believes in peace doesn't mean he can butt into anything he wants. Nor does it make him right!
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Even the NPP cannot escape political motives (rolls eyes here)
After announcing the winner, committee chairman Gunnar Berge said the award to Mr
Carter "should be interpreted as a criticism" of
President George W Bush's policy on Iraq.
Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/2321295.stm
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Originally posted by Udie
hehe knew I'd turn some heads :D
Seriously though this guy has done A LOT for the homeless and needy since he's been out of office. Anybody here have a clue how many houses for the poor he has built with his own hands? His wife too....
Doesn't mean I always agree with him when he gets on one of his political missions, but you know at least he does put his money where his mouth is. It doesn't mean I agree with his methods of gaining peace either, it's just that I believe that he does actually believe all that stuff and he has the integrity to work for it....
You called it Udie....Integrity. If ALL the world's leaders had his integrity, intelligence, and compassion, this world would be a safer, better place IMHO (Yeah, I know - rose-colored glasses and all). :)
Quoted from the article:
The secretive five-member prize committee praised Carter, 78, for "decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development."
The prize, named after Swedish philanthropist Alfred Nobel, was widely hailed abroad as honoring an elder statesman who has been praised more since leaving office than when president.
"It's great. He deserves it," said U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who shared the 2001 Nobel Peace Prize with the United Nations.
The committee praised Carter for an "outstanding commitment" to human rights and for everything from his battle against tropical diseases to his help for developing nations. The prize will be handed over on December 10 in Oslo.
End quote.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Even the NPP cannot escape political motives (rolls eyes here)
Gotta agree with you Rip,
Berge is outta line. Unprofessional and trying to put his personal spin against Bush. That wasn't the reason that Carter got the award.
Quote from article:
The chairman of the committee, Gunnar Berge, used the prize to make a scathing attack on President Bush's campaign to topple Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.
U.S. lawmakers gave Bush solid bipartisan support on Thursday for a strike on Iraq. Carter said last month it would be a "tragic mistake" for the United States to attack Iraq without U.N. backing.
"With the position Carter has taken...(the award) can and must also be seen as criticism of the line the current U.S. administration has taken on Iraq," Berge, a former Labour cabinet minister, told reporters after announcing the award.
Asked if it was a "kick in the leg" at Washington, Berge said: "Yes, the answer is an unconditional 'yes."' A "kick in the leg" is a Norwegian phrase meaning "a slap in the face."
But two committee members said Berge had gone too far. Inger-Marie Ytterhorn, an ex-parliamentarian of a far-right party, said Berge had acted "unprofessionally" in going beyond the official citation that only made a veiled reference to Iraq.
Berge defended his interpretation. "I expressed myself as leader of the committee...not on behalf of all of the members," he told Norwegian NRK radio.
End quote.
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Originally posted by babek-
Hey Mister.
I was there and know what I am speaking about.
Because of this weak idiot Carter parts of my family have been killed and others had to flee and now live in the USA , Canada and Europe.
Carter had got control of the imperial iranian forces when the Shah left Iran. He didnt allowed any military actiosn against the islamics and so the chance was lost to avaoid Khomeini and his terror.
And maybe the Shah was a dictator - but at least under his rule the iraquis around this monkey Saddam wouldnt dare to attack Iran, which was one of the strongest and best equipped military powers in the region.
Because of the revolution and the loss of imperial officers who were executed or went to exile Saddam thought he could win.
The consequence was that Iraq was loosing soon the war and had to get all these high tech weapons to hold the line against the islamic iranian forces.
And after Gulf War One this Frankenstein Saddam with all his new toy-weapons attacked Kuwait - so the USA had to intervene and stop Saddam.
Even today this conflict hasnt been solved and Bush jr. had to finish the job.
This bastard peanut farmer is responsible for the death of millions in the region - but when they gave the nobel price to terrorists like Arafat or Begin its absolutely OK that they also give it to someone like Carter.
LOL! Let me get this straight. So you're saying that once Carter bacame the President of the United States, only then did the Iranian populace start to hate the Shah? So Carter is responsible for the Islamic revolution that overthrew the Shah? Under which three administrations gave Sadaam Hussein the most support (before Desert Storm obviously)? Carter's, Reagan's, or Bush Sr's?
I don't know whether to feel laugh at you or feel sorry for you. Get a grip.
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OK, maybe one of you accounting types out there can answer this one.
The Nobel prize is worth about 1 million dollars this year. This is about 5 times more than it was worth in the 70's. It is my understanding that the prize money is from Nobel's estate. If they give away 5-6 million a year, (Peace, Physics, Chemistry, Literature, Economics.. am I forgetting any?) when will the money run out?
Or, did the Nobel committe make some verrrry good investments? If so, can I get in on that mutual fund?
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Originally posted by SaburoS
So Carter is responsible for the Islamic revolution that overthrew the Shah?
Yes. He is responsible for the success of this revolution.
Without his orders the revolution would have been crushed in the early stage and Khomeini would have been eliminated too before he could set his feet on iranian territory.
Its a fact that Carter had got the control of the Imperial Iranian Forces by the Shah who left Iran in the hope that he could return after the crisis would be settled.
It worked before in the 50ties where the CIA deposed prime minister Mossadegh, who deposed before the Shah.
Maybe Carter had bad advisors who totally failed in the situation. They ignored the reports of the Mossad how dangerous Khomeini was and that he had to allow the imperial forces to act immediately against the growing revolution.
But Carter - believing the reports that Khomeini was a second Ghandi - gave the strict order that the imperial military was not allowed to act.
And this order allowed the revolutionary forces to win.
With all the consequences which we still today have to see.
Its not the question if Carter, Reagon or Bush sr. supported Saddam most with weapons.
If Carter hasnt allowed the success of the Islamic revolution this question wouldnt exist.
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the nobel prizes are total BS ..ignore them
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Originally posted by babek-
Yes. He is responsible for the success of this revolution.
Without his orders the revolution would have been crushed in the early stage and Khomeini would have been eliminated too before he could set his feet on iranian territory.
Its a fact that Carter had got the control of the Imperial Iranian Forces by the Shah who left Iran in the hope that he could return after the crisis would be settled.
It worked before in the 50ties where the CIA deposed prime minister Mossadegh, who deposed before the Shah.
Maybe Carter had bad advisors who totally failed in the situation. They ignored the reports of the Mossad how dangerous Khomeini was and that he had to allow the imperial forces to act immediately against the growing revolution.
But Carter - believing the reports that Khomeini was a second Ghandi - gave the strict order that the imperial military was not allowed to act.
And this order allowed the revolutionary forces to win.
With all the consequences which we still today have to see.
Its not the question if Carter, Reagon or Bush sr. supported Saddam most with weapons.
If Carter hasnt allowed the success of the Islamic revolution this question wouldnt exist.
The Shah's treatment of his people (cause and effect) is what made ripe the conditions of the Islamic revolution, not whether Carter 'allowed' it to happen or not. Why would the Shah need to have the CIA and Mossad-trained SAVAK? Killing Khomeini would have made him a martyr in the eyes of his followers which both the Shah and Carter knew. That's why the Shah had Khomeini exiled to France. The winds of change were blowing way before Carter became President. Carter may have slowed the Revolution but he wouldn't be able to stop it. LOL, we are wasting out words on each other. You blame Carter for Iran's woes and because of that Sadaam's 'success.' I'll continue to agree to disagree.
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Carter is as deserving as any former US president. He may not have always been right, but he always tried to do what was right as he saw it, and for that I respect him. He didn't watch the polls to see if his decisions would fly, he made his choices and stuck with them. That's leadership.
Of course none of this has anything to do with Bush, Clinton, or Bush.
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I saw this on AGW and had to post it here. Thanks No. 6
(http://www.nlcs.k12.in.us/dewey/carter.jpg)
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Babek, i hear Stalin wasn't all that bad either.
I'm sorry for what happend to your family, but on the evil scale religious iran is just about as bad as Shah's Iran was.
Udie, we finally agree on something. Who would have thought ?
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Originally posted by fd ski
Udie, we finally agree on something. Who would have thought ?
Did you ever see Ace Ventura Pet Detective? Remember the scene when he realizes that the girl he kissed was a girl? That's me now :D
Seriously though, I'd bet we (all of us here) agree on a lot more than we disagree on. I like to think that we pretty much agree on the big picture, just think we need to take diferent routes to get there. I know that's over-simplification but I think overall this holds true....
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babek,
I was just wondering are you Pharsie?
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Originally posted by Udie
Seriously though, I'd bet we (all of us here) agree on a lot more than we disagree on. I like to think that we pretty much agree on the big picture, just think we need to take diferent routes to get there. I know that's over-simplification but I think overall this holds true....
but agreeing won't produce as many thread ;)
in fact I gotta disagree with you just to piss you off :D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
He must be close to death.
you mean its a sort of 'rest in peace' prize? ;) lol
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Originally posted by Kieran
He didn't watch the polls to see if his decisions would fly, he made his choices and stuck with them. That's leadership.
er i think you'll find thats dictatorship :D
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@Udie: "Farsi" is the iranian language.
I was born in Germany before the revolution - both parents iranians - and I was very often (again before the revolution) in Iran. Since the revolution I wasnt in Iran.
During the revolution my family living ín Germany and Switzerland managed to get out many family members and friends - they lived for some weeks in our house before they continued their trip to the USA or Canada or whereever.
Without exception they were blaming Carter for success of the the revolution. And they were not only from the military or police but also from all other social branches - like M.D.´s, lawyers or businesmen.
@fd ski: Sure - under the Shah´s reign there were inhumean crimes of the government but he cant be compared with a Stalin.
Shah Reza Pahlavi II hasnt killed more or less people than the Shah´s before him - including his father or the Quadjar-Dynasty.
The change came with the Khomeini-regime.
They built a perfect terror-regime - cleaning and supressing ethnical and political minorities.
So if you want to compare someone with Stalin then do it with these people.
And maybe you should read about the religious minority of the Bahai and their fate after the islamic revolution.
Under the islamic regime of Khomeini and his successors more than 1 million iranians died.
@SaburoS
You wrote: "The Shah's treatment of his people (cause and effect) is what made ripe the conditions of the Islamic revolution, not whether Carter 'allowed' it to happen or not. Why would the Shah need to have the CIA and Mossad-trained SAVAK? "
Great - you seem to be an expert of the iranian history. Do you know how many revolution attempts there have been in Iran in the last 150 years ? Nearly every 5 years a political or religios party tried to overthrow the ruling persons.
Iran is structured in family-castes. These families are fighting for power - making alliances and manipulating the lower castes.
So the situation in 1979 was nothing new or surprising.
Also in all the time Iran hat at least one secret police - like the SAVAK or its successor of the islamic regime SAVAMA.
Even the Pahlavi-dynasty came into power by a revolution by deposing the last Quadjar-Shah.
Only few years before there was a communistic revolution attempt which lost. Also during the reign of Reza I in the 1920ties there were revolutionary attemps which were also not succesful.
But all these revolutions claimed to be "revolutions of the people" against the opressing rulers.
So the 1979 revolution of that what you call "the people" was nothing unusual. The unusual thing was the fact that the army was forbidden to act against them.
It was the mistake of the Shah that he trusted Carter and gave him control over the imperial forces.
This weak man couldnt give the order for the imperial units to act against the growing revolution and so he encouraged them to go on.
Unluckily there was no Ronald Reagan, Bush sr. or Bush jr president of the USA when this crisis came.
But back to the iranian revolutions:
Even under the islamic regime there were revolutionary attempts.
Now : Just imagine what would happen with Iran if the revolution-attempt some years ago wasnt crushed down with brutal military actions of the islamic forces.
If there was a person like Carter which had the power to forbid any military actions against these revolutionaries.
Only an idiot would allow that revolutionaries could win if he has the power and the forces to crush down a revolution.
Carter did it and Iran became the Islamic Republic in 1979.
The Mullahs were more clever and acted immedeately when there was a staring revolutionary movements some years ago - and so they are still in rule of Iran.
Now the only hope for the Iranians is that they can depose the Mullahs step by step, because all opposition forces are effectivly destroyed.
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@Udie: "Farsi" is the iranian language.
I was born in Germany before the revolution - both parents iranians - and I was very often (again before the revolution) in Iran. Since the revolution I wasnt in Iran.
During the revolution my family living ín Germany and Switzerland managed to get out many family members and friends - they lived for some weeks in our house before they continued their trip to the USA or Canada or whereever.
Without exception they were blaming Carter for success of the the revolution. And they were not only from the military or police but also from all other social branches - like M.D.´s, lawyers or businesmen.
(spelling is going to be real bad :D)
Solom chitori, esme man Sean hast :D
and in closing, kodofis :D
The rest of what I know is BAD very BAD, but I do love the food too :) especially Kurosh Botomjun (sp again) and TADEEK!!!! I love tadeek, it's my favorite :D
I know that farsi is the language, but I've heard it used to describe the people too. I have some friends from Rafsanjoni (sp?) My 1st band in high school was called "Darius" and I spent a couple of years studying Irans history, specificly around 528 BC during Darius I's rule and NOT Darius III :D
My friends came over during the revolution and moved to Baton Rouge La. (talk about moving from the pan to the fire!) They never really had bad things to say about Carter. They loved the Shaw and hated Kohmeni.
Great people though to be sure, such a shame that their country is controlled by madmen :(
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Aw, hazed, that's really a stretch.
C'mon. You know he can only influence, not force. I respect him because he at least had an idea of what he wanted to accomplish and pursued it even when it was not politically expedient to do so. He certainly doesn't come remotely close to the description of dictator or despot.
Me, I foolishly believe leaders have to first possess vision. They need to have the charisma and personal persuasive abilities to get people to follow. I think Carter had a disposition to be a dove at any expense, and this damaged him politically. I think he had a vision, but he did not have the charisma or persuasive ability to get the followers. Or perhaps his vision was flawed. At any rate, he remained consistant throughout his term in what he tried to accomplish.