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General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: eskimo2 on October 12, 2002, 04:40:03 AM

Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: eskimo2 on October 12, 2002, 04:40:03 AM
Total crap!

eskimo
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Tumor on October 12, 2002, 06:14:11 AM
Well, they are the bargain brand but I dunno if "suck" is a really good description!
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: ALF on October 12, 2002, 09:08:56 AM
Yeah....AMD sure suck.


I mean, geez, they sell a chip that runs programs faster than an Intel chip, then they sell them for less than half the price....how much worse can it get!
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: vorticon on October 12, 2002, 10:05:59 AM
vort loves his amd athlon xp chip
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: budking on October 12, 2002, 10:17:20 AM
:D  I have a 900 t-bird athlon still kicks ass!!!!! maybe you could list your spec's and problem,plenty of pc boffins about:p
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 12, 2002, 12:46:55 PM
been running my ahtlon 1gig for almost 2 years
the first time i didn't feel for upgrading by than.

It still comes along

Thanks to AMD, cpu's started a race in price and speed

Otherwise we would be still paying high prices for an Intel 800 mhz by now.

Just something to think about
:rolleyes:
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: eskimo2 on October 12, 2002, 01:21:53 PM
I/m just pissed off that my system won't play AH

Prolly will have replaced all parts before it ever can play AH.

eskimo
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Puck on October 12, 2002, 01:34:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
I/m just pissed off that my system won't play AH

Prolly will have replaced all parts before it ever can play AH.

eskimo


I know the feeling.  I only get 40 hours a month or so playing AH on my AthalonXP system.  Total Suxxor.
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: wklink on October 12, 2002, 03:06:50 PM
Eskimo, I doubt it's the Athlon.  I am runnng an XP 2100 in my system with 60-75fps with absolutely no problems.  

I would look at another problem.  I know of way too many AMD users that don't have a problem with this game.
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Karnak on October 12, 2002, 09:45:07 PM
I too am running an Athlon XP with no problems.
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: eskimo2 on October 12, 2002, 09:55:47 PM
Yea,
I posted this after staying up all friggin night trying to get things right.  I was pissed off at everything in my machine.  Right now I've been up for 41 hours and I'm grumpy.  I still hate all the crap in my machine, but mostly the K7AMA mobo.  Before this stint, the longest I'd ever gone without playing AH/WB was maybe a week.  Now it's been over 2 months.  I'm tired and pissed.

eskimo
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: DoctorYO on October 12, 2002, 10:39:02 PM
does the machine boot windows?

if yes do you have via's 4 -1 drivers installed?

if yes consider checking graphics drivers and ensure no beta drivers.

now if the machine does not boot windows then rip apart and build it back up ensuring you dont mess it up...

worst case scenario go buy a cheapo mb for like $65 internet or like $105 CompUSA extortion.....

Most likely your chip is fine.

you got to double check everything very unlikely AMD is the problem....

when all else fails I suggest the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

2 cents

DoctorYO
Mercenary For Hire
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Fishu on October 12, 2002, 10:41:05 PM
Eskimo,

3 reasons why it might not run:

Windows configuration is screwed up for some reason (I've had that problem few times.. although registry backups / complete DX reinstalls fixed up everything)

Motherboard is bad

Memory is bad


Usually flawed motherboard or memory is also experiencing problems with other programs.

Windows screwing up, can be very validating nature.
For long time I had problems with just two games, which caused crashes constantly, but no problems with other game.
Finally put in 2-4 months old registry backup which I had for some reason and computer was cured - since then I've made registry backups regularly and used those 3 more times to save the windows.
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: SKurj on October 13, 2002, 12:25:05 AM
what chipset?

nm +)


SKurj
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Hussein on October 13, 2002, 03:48:00 AM
He has a crappy mobo with el-cheapo Ali chipset.. no wonder he hates his system .. lol :D
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: BlckMgk on October 13, 2002, 11:40:34 AM
Seriously though, everyone enjoys building their own computer, and save themselves maybe 2k in the process, but damn from my experience being an avid gamer... just save yourself the headache, I do know that budget may be a big factor, and well it is just a game... but check this bad mama out... (wish I had the cash)

Velocity Raptor Special Edition (Big Name eh?) (http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=18)    :::droll:::

Nice big price tag on it too lol... You can also talk to the Alienware people they've built their share of Aces High Computers, the consultant told me, "Oh another one?" Seems they're a popular choice.

But then again... I've gotten over building my own computers, since hardware, software, is changing every second hard to keep up... Let the folks in that business do the job, and provide me with the service hehe... Argh such a headache trying to get a compatiable STABLE system, but then  again I never had any training.

-BlckMgk
Title: Disagree
Post by: blkdvl on October 13, 2002, 12:19:42 PM
Bought system = Bloat ware= Piss poor perforamnce

  Building them is a snap. First one is kinda scarry, but after that, you can do it after having a few beers.Heheh. Best thing to do is find an old system (not too old) real cheap and practice your  component swap out/ driver & OS loading and get used to it.>> Ask questions<<  this is how you learn. There are many kind folks in the flight sim world who post here and on AGW HW/SW forums, who just happen to be pros who do this for a living.And they graciously help whenever they can.

  Lots of good resources out there also.Toms' is one that comes to mind...heres another good resource

 http://www.motherboards.org/articlesd/how-to-guides/924_1.html

   Besides, when you have a problem with your system ( and they ALL do) its a lot nicer to be able to figgure it out for yourself than to have to call some 8$/hr idiot at Tech Support ( They're all the same) so they can have you *try* stuff,heheh on YOUR system of course, they are reading out of a manual.... and 8 out of 10 not get the problem fixed anywho.My 2 centskis
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: OZkansas on October 13, 2002, 01:16:24 PM
AMD still sending a fire retardent material to mount around their CPUs after installation on the MOBO?

I loved that film of the AMD CPU on fire!!!

:D
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: iceydee on October 14, 2002, 05:51:11 AM
maybe you're having problems with heat? do you have enough fans in the case? have you checked the temperature of the CPU?

EDIT: just saw your other post about memtest and stuff... seems like heat is not the problem... I would get new mobo and memories if my comp. failed the memtest, and hope there's still warranty for them... ;)
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Vulcan on October 14, 2002, 11:31:25 PM
AMD 2100XP+, Asus A7V333-Raid, 512Mb DDR, Geforce 3Ti200, Win XP, CH Thottle, Pro Pedals, Flightstick... all perfectly stable.
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Dingbat on October 15, 2002, 10:12:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by OZkansas
AMD still sending a fire retardent material to mount around their CPUs after installation on the MOBO?

I loved that film of the AMD CPU on fire!!!

:D


Where where? I wanna see it
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: -lynx- on October 16, 2002, 12:52:50 PM
Yeah... Let's create an impossible situation, film it and try to scare people off.

I paid £2495 for a P75 with 15" monitor and 1Mb graphics back in '95. Thank God for AMD - the prices have come down since on everything cuz competition helps... If it wasn't for them I guess we'd still be running P200s maybe even without MMX;)
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Mogi on October 16, 2002, 01:01:07 PM
I'm still running with my homebuilt AMD Athlon 750 and have no problems at all, fps in the 40 to 60 range.
Title: AMD CPU on Fire
Post by: TIGS on October 16, 2002, 05:10:22 PM
If you guys want - here's a link to the Intel/AMD CPUs test video of them going up in smoke - not Intel - just AMD but both are shown though.

No Fire as far as I can see (if there is another video with the flame in it, gimme!)

TIGS

THG's Test Video of Intel Pentiums and AMD Athlons without Heatsinks (http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/heatvideo-05.html)
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: AKDejaVu on October 16, 2002, 07:27:10 PM
In all fairness to AMD processors...

They reportedly fixed the circuit that was failing to react to the overheat in time from what I've heard.  I've not seen any additional films like those, so I assume that is actually the case.

The P4-2.8G uses more power than any of the current Athlons do.

AKDejaVu <- Works for Intel
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: bloom25 on October 16, 2002, 08:38:09 PM
After that video came out AMD mandated that future AMD approved boards MUST have hardware thermal protection.  Almost all of them do now.  It never was a true processor issue, all Athlon XPs and Durons > 1 GHz have had the necessary component (thermal diode) on the CPU die, but no motherboards implemented any circuitry to take advantage of it until recently.

Admittedly the chances of a heatsink coming clean off is very low (as the video does), but it's good to have overheat protection now.  This is something Intel has had since the P6 core was released (Pentium Pro, P2, P3, most Celerons).
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: AKDejaVu on October 16, 2002, 09:22:28 PM
Hmmm... seems like I heard something about a diode delay problem on the processor for this one bloom.  One processor shown in that vid did not have overtemp detection at all.  The other had it, but it did not work due to a diode delay problem (if heat ramped too fast).

Regardless... it has been fixed.

I just am chuckling that you came in here and said it never really was a problem;)

AKDejaVu
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: bloom25 on October 18, 2002, 12:38:25 AM
Diode delay problem?  I can't say I've heard of that.  This one is kind of complicated, but I'll go over it anyway to clear up the issue:

Up until the Athlon XP (palomino core) and Durons at 1 GHz and higher (morgan core) the K7 core lacked a thermal diode.  The root of the problem with Athlons burning up was that the temperature detection and overheat protection was done via software (firmware in the bios to be exact).  This worked, but could not react fast enough should the heatsink fall off or not be attached.  It worked fine if a fan failed.  When the Athlon XPs came out (with the thermal diode) 2 pins on the socket were set aside for it.  (These pins were previously unused.)  Existing socket A boards of course could not take advantage of the addition of the thermal diode, and newer boards did not immediately either.

In case you are wondering what a "thermal diode" is, I'll explain them briefly.  (DejaVu probably already knows this.)  In actual fact, any diode can potentially be used as a thermal diode.  All diodes have a so called "built in voltage" (Vbi) (can be roughly thought of as the voltage at which a diode "turns on")  which varies somewhat with temperature.  At room temperature a silicon diode typically has a built in voltage of around .6 to .7 volts.  That voltage increases as temperature increases.  By monitoring this voltage, temperature can be determined.  (For those who really want to know, I'll give you the exact equation to determine Vbi later on.)  There is no significant "time delay" present.

The "fix" was simply to use a hardware based circuit (a comparator) to compare the voltage across the diode with a reference voltage.  When the voltage across the diode exceeded a certain level, power is cut off immediately.  As I said above, all Athlon XPs and Durons >= 1 GHz have a diode onboard which can be used for this, but motherboard manufacturers simply did not implement the neccessary hardware to take advantage of it.  That Tom's Hardware video was a great thing, as it forced AMD to take action to correct the problem.  Asus and Soltek retrofitted all their socket A boards to include a hardware monitoring circuit within a month of the video's release.

The equation for Vbi is:

Vbi = kT/q * ln ((Na*Nd)/ni^2)  k is Boltzmann's constant which is equal to 8.617E-5 (units are eV/K).  q is the the charge of an electron = 1.6E-19 Coulombs.  T is the temperature in degrees Kelvin.  Na is the related to the doping concentration of acceptor (P type) impurities.  Nd is related to the doping concentration of donor impurities (N type). ni is the intrinsic carrier concentration of silicon, which is usually around 10^10.  For a given diode, all except temperature are constants once the diode is made.  As the equation would indicate, Vbi increases as temperature increases.)
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: AKDejaVu on October 18, 2002, 01:03:31 AM
Quote
all Athlon XPs and Durons > 1 GHz have had the necessary component (thermal diode) on the CPU die, but no motherboards implemented any circuitry to take advantage of it until recently.
Sorry bloom.. but this is not true from anything I've read.  The motherboards tested were supposed to have thermal protection systems that operated using this diode.  They were ineffective.  After the meltdown, AMD created a new circuit that handled things differently and mandated that everyone use them.

The problem was fixed.  There was a bug with the thermal detection system that caused the chip to fry.  That frying problem most definately caused a problem with the processor.

Chalk it up as growing pains with someone taking the leap into the chipset market and learning some lessons the hard way.

Kudos to them for fixing the problem.  Shame on them for not discovering it themselves.

AKDejaVu
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: bloom25 on October 18, 2002, 01:08:58 AM
I didn't know about that.  That's pretty bad that something like that got through testing... :(
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Hussein on October 18, 2002, 01:14:50 AM
Hey let's keep the perspective here..

Even if you do fry your Athlon, you can still buy a new and faster one by the time it does for half the price of P4..
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: beet1e on October 18, 2002, 05:15:07 AM
I love my Athlon 1.2GHz. Installed it June 2001 on a Asus A7V133 mobo. With Elsa Gladiac Ultra vidcard, I get 60-80fps.

The Athlon runs at 58° celsius or higher, gives no problems and cuts down on my heating bills.
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Dingbat on October 18, 2002, 07:02:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hussein
Hey let's keep the perspective here..

Even if you do fry your Athlon, you can still buy a new and faster one by the time it does for half the price of P4..



And A new board to boot.

Eskimo, just get a new GOOD MB.  I'll bet you that you're problems will clear up.
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: AKDejaVu on October 18, 2002, 07:46:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hussein
Hey let's keep the perspective here..

Even if you do fry your Athlon, you can still buy a new and faster one by the time it does for half the price of P4..
Have you checked the prices lately?  My guess is no.

AKDejaVu
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Vermillion on October 18, 2002, 12:35:27 PM
Yup Deja is right, compare right now the P4 2.4Ghz or 2.53Ghz machines to the AMD XP 2400.  Pretty compareable, and the performance differential is not there anymore either.
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: LePaul on October 18, 2002, 03:16:56 PM
Oh yea, Eskimo...my Athlon runs Aces High just fine...
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: -lynx- on October 19, 2002, 10:42:35 AM
Quote
Have you checked the prices lately? My guess is no.


http://www.dabs.com is the largest PC components supplier in the UK and their prices are normally amongst the lowest:

Intel

2.0 - 2.4 - 2.6 are priced at £131 - £162 - £313 respectively

AMD

2000+ - 2400+ - 2600+ are priced at £75 - £143 - £227...

You do the maths. It's not "half price" but you'd be able to buy a decent new mobo as well... Take into account that RDRAM is still considerably more expensive (~50%) than DDR SDRAM...

p.s I know that Athlon 2000 runs at 1.7. It's what it does at this speed that matters, right? ;)

p.p.s. Deja - they do not "seem high", they are what we pay for CPUs here in the UK. Pricewatch works for US only. The rest of the world have to take into consideration sales taxes/import duties, freight costs etc... I can find CPUs cheaper by a few quid here and there but certainly not to make a difference to a pattern and in those places there usually is shipping on top to kill off the gain on a price. Here's another one http://www.komplett.co.uk - actually they're Norway based - AMD - 65-133-207 vs Intel's 110-144-288. They charge ~£6 delivery. All the above prices exclude sales tax at 17.5%... Still want to go Intel? I can't afford it...;)
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: AKDejaVu on October 19, 2002, 11:15:10 AM
Check Pricewatch (http://www.pricewatch.com)

Those prices you're showing seem high for both.

AKDejaVu
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Staga on October 19, 2002, 12:16:10 PM
Prices in Finland:
AMD XP 2400 257€
Intel P4 2,4 259€
Title: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
Post by: Yippee38 on October 22, 2002, 02:50:53 PM
Eskimo,

Do you have more than one stick of memory?  If so, power down, remove the second stick of memory and fire it up with only the first stick in it.  See if it's stable.  Then shut it down again and take out the first stick and put the second stick in the first slot.  Fire it up and check the system out.  That should tell you if your memory is bad.

I had TONS of problems with my system being unstable when I first got it.  I tried a ton of stuff.  I never tried the memory because I ran a memory test and it passed.  Finally, I ran out of things to check and did the above procedure.  It turned out that one of my memory sticks was bad.  I returned it.  Within a week, my second stick stopped booting the system too.  I returned it too.  I haven't had a problem since.

I bought Corsair (not the value stuff) as that is the most reliable brand.  That's part of the reason I was so sure it wasn't memory.  In doing my investigations on the net for a solution to my problem, I found that bad memory was by far the most common reason for people having instability.

BTW, what OS are you running?  I have been running 98SE forever (about) and it's pretty damn stable for a MS OS.  I tried XP and could not ever get it running correctly.  It would always blue screen on me within a couple of days of installing it.

What kind of power supply do you have?  How many watts is it rated for?

I'm running:
Antec 400W P/S
Epox 8KHA+ motherboard
Athlon XP 1800+
2x Corsair PC2100 CAS 2.5 256Mb RAM
GeForce 3.
Title: AMD sucks
Post by: Elimaxx on October 25, 2002, 01:28:56 PM
I've been running a scratch built 850 mhz T-bird for a year now, proc runs at 40 degrees C, i get 60 to 85 fps with an OCed GF 4 mx card.
btw, this system is rock stable, fast, and cheap, i love it :)