Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mr. Blonde on October 12, 2002, 08:29:29 AM
-
from Insight Magazine "fair comment", 2001-Sep-7, by Julia Gorin:
Let’s be honest. He’s scared of the thing. That’s understandable — so am I. But I’m a girl and have the luxury of being able to admit it. I don’t have to masquerade squeamishness as grand principle — in the interest of mankind, no less.
A man does. He has to say things such as “One Taniqua Hall is one too many,” as a New York radio talk-show host did in referring to the 9-year-old New York girl who accidentally was shot earlier this year by her 12-year-old cousin while playing with his uncle’s gun. But the truth is he desperately needs Taniqua Hall, just like he needs as many Columbines and Santees as can be mustered, until they spell an end to the Second Amendment — and not for the benefit of the masses, but for the benefit of his self-esteem.
He often accuses men with guns of “compensating for something.” The truth is quite the reverse. After all, how is he supposed to feel knowing there are men out there who aren’t intimidated by the big bad inanimate villain? How is he to feel in the face of adolescent boys who have used a family gun effectively in defending the family from an armed intruder? So if he doesn’t want to touch a gun, he doesn’t want other men to either. And to achieve his ends, he’ll use the only weapon he knows how to manipulate: the law.
This is not to say that sexual and psychological insecurities are the sole motivations driving the antigun male, or that they explain all men against guns. Certainly there must be some whose motives are pure, who perhaps do care so much as to look tirelessly for policy solutions to teen-age aggression and domestic negligence where none exist. But for a potentially large underlying contributor, it’s gone unexplored and unacknowledged.
People are suspicious of what they do not know — and not only does this man not know how to use a gun, he doesn’t know the men who do or the number of people who have successfully used one to defend themselves from injury or death. But he is better left in the dark; his life is hard enough knowing there are men out there who don’t sit cross-legged. That they’re able to handle a firearm instead of being handled by it would be too much to bear.
Such a man also is best kept huddled in big cities, where he feels safer than he might if thrown out on his own into a rural setting, in an isolated house on a quiet street where he would feel naked and helpless. Lacking the confidence that would permit him to be sequestered in sparseness, and lacking a gun, he finds comfort in the cloister of the crowd.
The very ownership of a gun for defense of home and family implies some assertiveness and a certain self-reliance. But if our man kept a gun in the house and an intruder broke in and started attacking his wife in front of him, he wouldn’t be able later to say, “He had a knife — there was nothing I could do!” Passively watching in horror while already trying to make peace with the violent act, scheduling a therapy session and forgiving the perpetrator before the attack is even finished wouldn’t be the option it otherwise is.
No. Better to emasculate all men. Because, let’s face it: He’s a lover, not a fighter. And he doesn’t want to get shot in case he has an affair with your wife.
Of course, it wouldn’t be completely honest not to admit that owning a firearm carries with it some risk to unintended targets. That’s the trade-off with a gun: The right to defend one’s life and way of life isn’t without peril to oneself. And the last thing this man wants to do is risk his life — if even to save it. For he is guided by a dread fear for his life and has more confidence in almost anyone else’s ability to protect him than his own, preferring to place himself at the mercy of the villain or in the competence of authorities (his line of defense consisting of locks, alarm systems, reasoning with the attacker, calling the police or, should fighting back occur to him, thrashing a heavy vase).
In short, he is a man begging for subjugation. He longs for its promise of equality in helplessness. After all, only when that strange, independent alpha breed of male is helpless along with him will he feel adequate. Indeed, his freedom lies in this other man’s containment.
-
Turnabout is fair play I guess. But us gun nuts don't need to play this Freudian crap. We are right and they are wrong.
ra
-
Julia wouldn't happen to be friends with Anne Coulter would she?
In typical NRA fashion she fails to notice the shades of gray. You know... the people out there that think the 2nd Amendment is just fine and that gun control is a good thing too.
She also incorrectly assumes that there aren't people that do know how to use and handle a weapon, but simply choose not to keep them at home.
-
I don't believe that you can have the 2nd and have gun control at the same time. It is a paradox. I distrust the motives of anyone who says you can.
lazs
-
Ah... c'mon Laz, I trust you with the water. :)
-
But we do have the 2nd and gun control.
Check it out. (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/gun.control/)
-
Ya know Sand.. I think ye missed the point. She wasn't talking about "all the shades of gray", she was talking about folks that think the 2nd amendment is great with a bit of gun control added, or the people that are very competent in the handling of firearms but choose to not keep them at home. She's talking about the weird named, smelly geek from jr high that everyone else picked on who is terrified of the thought of handling a firearm, let alone owning one. And wants to pick on the folks who can do what he's terrified of doing in the only way he can. And guess ya missed this tidbit:
This is not to say that sexual and psychological insecurities are the sole motivations driving the antigun male, or that they explain all men against guns.
And how typically anti-gun of you to try and broaden the scope of her writing by saying "in typical NRA fashion she fails to notice the shades of gray".
/shrug
-
Originally posted by CavemanJ
And how typically anti-gun of you to try and broaden the scope of her writing by saying "in typical NRA fashion she fails to notice the shades of gray".
/shrug
I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti-NRA.
FWIW, I know how to handle a weapon. I just don't like them in the house. :)
-
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti-NRA.
FWIW, I know how to handle a weapon. I just don't like them in the house. :)
Ok, Gotcha. I admit I tend forget that there are some pro-gun folks who are anti-NRA and tend to lump them in with the anti-gun crowd. My apologies for that mistake.
I can respect not wanting them in the house. My wife is the same way, worried about the kids finding them and what not. That's why it's locked in a box with a combination lock (so they can't find the key :D )
-
I guess it's that word 'control' that gets me all fired up. Who in this great country likes it? MT I admit there must be some regulation governing ownership of firearms, common sense regs not knee jerk reaction type that affect only law abiding citizens. If you ever apply for a class 01 or 03 FFL or purchase a firearm you're asked those 11 majic questions, well 12 now since the introduction of the patriot act. A background check is done and if you have no wants or warrants out on ya presto you can own that firearm you wanted.
But keeping those checks on file, having to register my firearms with the government, get mug shots taken at the police station, developing laws that makes more and more difficult to own a firearm does not sit well with me. Uncle and the locals ought to go after those who abuse their rights and the rights of others when it comes to firearms.
Why am I being penalized when I haven't done anything wrong?
-
I like guns in general, love shooting them, especially full auto SMG :D, in a safe controled environment but I have no need for them in my house right now.
Where do I fit in?
-
Originally posted by CavemanJ
I can respect not wanting them in the house. My wife is the same way, worried about the kids finding them and what not. That's why it's locked in a box with a combination lock (so they can't find the key :D )
My wife freaks out. :) My mom stayed with us for a few days and left her pistol stashed in the closet. My wife had no clue. Literally shrieked when I checked the chamber and magazine to make sure the gun was clear and safe.
-
sandman... If you feel no need for a gun in your house then that is your choice. I would never feel good about forcing you to keep one. I just don't see why you want to limit my freedoms.
lazs
-
fear of weapons is a known phobia, ask any doctor.
kids and guns are bad ...you always hear that.....lock up the guns , hide the guns, don't want no guns in the house
when i was a little kid, i knew the difference between a real gun and a toy gun, my dad let me play with a shotgun ( which was in a unlocked gun rack) but he told me "never point a gun at anything you don't want to kill" he taught me at a early age what guns were and we hunted together many years.
if your afraid of guns , don't be ashamed, just admit it, hey some people are afraid of high places
44MAG
-
i read something once that said that people like to associate themselves with larger organizations (i.e. political parties, sports teams, etc) emotionally because, for the average person, their own accomplishments will never be enough to satisfy their ego needs....but maybe the person who wrote it is affraid of televised sports
-
Originally posted by lazs2
sandman... If you feel no need for a gun in your house then that is your choice. I would never feel good about forcing you to keep one. I just don't see why you want to limit my freedoms.
lazs
Lazs you need to read a little more closely. BIG difference between anti-gun and anti-NRA. The NRA pissed me off along time ago when I was a member and had a gun stolen. After they took out the deductible and then cut the value in half I got enough on the claim to pay for about 1/2 of buying an 80series Goldcup to replace the stolen gun, not counting the mods/smithing work.
what was stolen: Colt 1911A1 Goldcup, 70series, tricked out for IPSC Standard division.
Ever since then I've been cool towards the NRA.
Haven't seen Sand say anything about trying to limit anyone's freedoms, go beat up on a liberal :D
44mag that's one of the biggest problems with the whole gun issue these days. Lack of education about firearms. I was taught to shoot when I was 6yrs old with a .22 rifle. By the time I was 10 I had my own Colt .357mag and woe to me if I even dared to think of taking it out w/o specific permission and being escorted by, in the parents' estimation, a safe and responsible adult.
-
I still remember playing with my Grandpa's guns when I was a littel kid, one of the first times I got to see them I was waving it around the room as a little kid often will and I had swung that thing about for about probably a fraction of a second when he snatched that thing outta my hands before I could blink and looked me square in the eye and said. "Don't you ever point this thing at anything you don't mean to shoot." He grew up in a household where his dad left loaded guns laying around and everyone knew you didn't touch or point one at anything because it was probably loaded. Different age I guess.
Don't take my ramblings here as any indication of polictical beliefs or a stance on the NRA /gun control, I'm too tired to jump into anything political at this time of night. ;)
-
cave... sorry the insurance thing didn't work out. I doubt that it was because of the NRA membership or even officers tho. No doubt it was their carrier. Still... for all the good they do i don't mind sending them the lousy $35 dollars a year. If you know of a better organization for protecting 2nd rights I will be glad to help out.
Perhaps I can do whatever it is that you do to protect our rights? Please give me a clue. I allready write politicians and vote but would be interested in doing whatever it is that you do. I simply can't sit and do nothing tho.
lazs
-
In about 30 minutes I am going to shoot a large frame (pre N frame) 1917 Smith and Wesson in .45 auto with full moon clips while I am doing my weekend rounds at work. I haven't shot this gun yet and am looking forward to it. Many of our servicemen in WWII carried these things (and the Colt counterpart) in lieu of the 1911.
To top it off I will be shooting ammo with a '42 headstamp.. The ammo came in a sealed (like a ham can) tin of 800 rounds and is pristene. Should be a hoot.
lazs
-
It does seem that many Americans own a gun for no other reason that to exercise the right of ownership as granted by the law.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
It does seem that many Americans own a gun for no other reason that to exercise the right of ownership as granted by the law.
Even if true, what is morally wrong with that?
-
here is a good one for ya beetle... the DA 45 shot great. I also have another one that is chambered for 455. It is also a Smith 1917. It was a civilian gun that was sent to limeyland when you guys cried for "anything that would shoot" in WWI. It has british proof marks of the era.. after the war it was sent back here and has U.S. marks.. during WWII.... It was sent back to limeyland when you guys begged for "anything better than a pitchfork" and it was.... re-proofed with the british "7 tonnes" proof.. After the war the fiendish contraption was sent back to the U.S. so as not to hurt anyone over there.
Think I'll keep it around... Don't know if I'll send it off again when you guys ask tho.
lazs
-
Lazs - interesting stuff. I have never shot off a gun, but I have handled (OK, played with) an unloaded .357 Magnum. (I knew a guy in the KY state police) What surprised me was the ammunition he had in it - hollowpoints. Not nice. :( Is it legal for the police to use ammunition like that?
-
Hollowpoints of all calibers are availible to the public at any store which sells ammo. Not just to the police.
Personally I perfer Winchester 185grn Silvertip hollowpoints for my 1911 Gov't Model. OnLine Cataloge for Winchester Ammunition (http://www.winchester.com/)
-
Originally posted by beet1e
What surprised me was the ammunition he had in it - hollowpoints. Not nice. :( Is it legal for the police to use ammunition like that?
hollowpoints are legal in every state except new jersey* (i think), citys may have their own laws, the military must use full metal jackets by treaty, the police can use whatever their dept says they can use.
44MAG
* it's a crime to possess a hollowpoint bullet in new jersey even with out a gun.
-
Such a man also is best kept huddled in big cities, where he feels safer than he might if thrown out on his own into a rural setting, in an isolated house on a quiet street where he would feel naked and helpless. Lacking the confidence that would permit him to be sequestered in sparseness, and lacking a gun, he finds comfort in the cloister of the crowd.
Did she just call the good people of the Rust Belt soft? LOL...anytime baby...
-
i find it somewhat bothersome that many american (so called) conservatives decry the 'liberal' ACLU, which is very frequently a party to NRA legal actions, and is probably the best defender of our rights, 2nd amendment or otherwise, the country has seen. As it focuses on maintaining The Constitution (the whole thing, not just one small part of one section), one would think the ACLU would be considered one of the most conservative oprganizations out there...
-
I don't own a gun and I live in a big city. Does that make me passive?
Nah. I prefer to get close-in when I fight, to feel the flesh squeeze and hear the bones crack.
-
My old man tought me gun safety when I was 6, and started me shooting wax bullits in the garage out of his 1911.
All growing up, I never had an acident, and made sure anytime a gun showed up, I got ahold of it ASAP and made sure it was not loaded.
Guns are not a problem.
They are just another tool.
People are a problem, and nothing we do about guns, will ever change that.
-
Guns are not a problem.
They are just another tool.
Nope.
A gun is not just another tool. It has one purpose. And one purpose only. It was specifically designed for killing, so don't blame the results on "people".
-
LOL
It is not like it can kill without a person using it.
Guns are not evil, they do not sprout feet and jump around shooting people.
Nor does a gun make people do evil things.
The heart of all evil is in a mans heart. someone who is going to kill will do it with or without a gun.
People do get murdered on your little island don't they?
Hey if a robber comes into your home can you defent yourself? What if you use a Cricet bat and beat him, and he dies? Do you go to Jail?
-
Nor does a gun make people do evil things.
The heart of all evil is in a mans heart. someone who is going to kill will do it with or without a gun.
Well, if he can kill without a gun, I guess we don't need guns.
People do get murdered on your little island don't they?
- Number of handgun deaths in Britain - 8
- Number of handgun deaths in USA - 10,000+
Source - US Census.
I rest my case.
-
"Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.") -- (ca. 4 BC-65 AD)
Looks like the debate has some history.
-
How many murdered to all causes..
lol
you can get somewhere on foot. Gues we do not need, trains or cars huh?
Nice argument lol lol.
You have no case, you have no argument, you do not live here and I could care less what you think of the U.S. and her gun owners. When you live here and can vote, you might matter.
-
QUOTE Originally posted by Beet1e "A gun is not just another tool. It has one purpose. And one purpose only. It was specifically designed for killing, so don't blame the results on "people".
There is another use for a gun, and that is deterrance. It was the policy we all lived through during the cold war, and it has some justification. Also, I target shoot; pistol, shotgun and rifle.
If we outlaw things designed for killing, I guess the English longbow is out too.
One last quote:
Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.
-- L. Neil Smith
-
English longbow is baned in england....you could put your eye out
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I like guns in general, love shooting them, especially full auto SMG :D, in a safe controled environment but I have no need for them in my house right now.
Where do I fit in?
in France ?
I know it hurt :p :p
-
GTO, you say it all in your sig.
I also own guns! Oh no! I love the big scary guns! The ones that make anti gun people shiver in fear!
That's what it's about really. It has been found that those people who worship guns often have an inadequate personality. That was certainly the case with Michael Ryan, instigator of the Hungerford massacre in 1986. He was a nothing, nobody. The only way he could make his mark was with a gun. He killed 15 people and then did us all a favour by killing himself.
GTO, why do you need to make people shiver in fear? Which people? Why do you tell us in your sig.? Do you think any of us cares that you have a gun?
I would rather put something like I am qualified in CPR and could save someone's life...
...but you are inadequate, and need to make your mark with your gun ownership declaration. Your gun is impotent in your hands, and is probably nothing more than a much needed noodle extension. Oh, did I say "impotent"?
-
I think beetle and all of limeyland politics speak volumes about what the woman was talking about.
Do we really want to end up like..... the british?
If you don't own a gun then for gawds sake go out and get one or you will be.... british.
When I was over there I seen bobbies with sub guns. every post and wall had a handbill telling you to watch out for pickpockets (a sneaky timid crime). Smash and grab... (would explain why the socialists like to make the arenas so "strat" and boring)
guns are indeed a tool. their uses are defensive, offensive and recreational... going further they are masterpieces of the mechanical art and are, in many cases, art themselves. they are also living history.
shooting a garrand or a 1917 Smith is "immersive" to me.
lazs
-
There will always be those who prey on the innocent. It is much easier to do so when the innocent, unarmed, and complacent about that fact. Security is your own responsibility, not that of the police or the government. They CANNOT protect you all the time, wholly or in part.
One of the great truths of life is that, at some point during your existence, you might have to use deadly force to defend you or yours. Faced with multiple, murderous attackers, which would you rather have to defend yourself, a baseball bat, a knife, a sword, or a gun?
Regards, Shuckins
-
Beetle I think a more important question is why you are so concerned that GTO be prepared to perform sexually?
-
Try living in a thugged out run down part of one of the worst cities in the US to live in (DC) and then tell me people shouldn't be allowed to own guns.
That criminal coming through your window right now, the one with the gun pointed at your head.. yeah you take away the right for the people to own guns, he's still gonna have that gun, and it will still be loaded, and it will still be pointed at YOU.
You, OTOH, will have been forced to bring a knife to a gunfight because you lost your right to own a weapon.
When it comes down to it, I don't give a rat's bellybutton who's got a gun... so long as I got one too.
-SW
-
LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!
-
OMG you are so funny.
I own guns, but they are not a major part of my life. I put that in my sig just to mess with you! The ultimate bate, you took it hook line and sinker.
For you to sit in England and judge me with your sad English standards is so funny, I had to stop reading your post, I couldn't breath.
My life is great! I have a great woman, a great job, and a great car, and it was not designed by Nazi's
I like guns, I target shoot. If you are sad enough to think you are better person then I am, based on that, your a sad little man.
I have never broken the law with my firearms. I have never had to use them on another person, the only thing they have ever damaged was paper targets. I did have a time when I felt I needed it to protect my home, since my next-door neighbor was dealing drugs and he had some very unsavory people coming around. He moved away and now my guns stay locked away only used when I want the fun and challenge of target shooting. I am grateful I did not have to use them to protect my family. I would have though, in a second.
I own a gun, that does not make me any more likely to hurt anyone. I have never broken a law other then speeding in my life.
Post some more and make me laugh, maybe Fatty is right, are you hitting on me?
Oh and it is so classic how you ignored my question: How many people where murdered in the UK, by all means?
I am now laughing at myself for even bothering with you, you are ignorant, but hell you are funny.
-
Lazs! I've been a bit hard on you in the past, so I don't want to start another argument just yet. ;)
GTO - Oh, OK! :) You were winding me up. I don't know you well enough to have noticed any change in your sig. - was that a wind-up too? Better that you are a wind-up merchant than yet another gun toting American salamander. There are plenty of those, and the trouble is that we've had at least two copycat crimes over here as a result- Hungerford & Dunblane. Both of 'em caused by pathetic social misfits.
But I am concerned to know why so many Americans feel the need to have guns. I am well travelled in America - have lived and worked there and have probably been to more states than anyone else on this board. (spent the most time at Springfield,IL, Mt. Prospect,IL Concord,CA, Golden,CO & New York City - upper west side/85th St.) But I never found the need for a gun while I was there, not even in New York which, thanks to Rudi, is probably safer than London. At home, there's no need for a gun. I sleep easy at nights with the windows open, but I do not live in London.
Lazs (and others) have expressed that the USA is a better place to live than Europe - dare I say "pissant" countries, without re-opening old wounds? And yet you guys in the US are the ones who feel sufficiently insecure that you need guns, whereas we pissants do not. As Lazs knows, I always like to substantiate what I say, so here are a few quotes from Americans that make me glad to be a pissant. [list=1]- I did have a time when I felt I needed it to protect my home, since my next-door neighbor was dealing drugs and he had some very unsavory people coming around.
- Try living in a thugged out run down part of one of the worst cities in the US to live in (DC) and then tell me people shouldn't be allowed to own guns.
- That criminal coming through your window right now, the one with the gun pointed at your head.. yeah you take away the right for the people to own guns, he's still gonna have that gun, and it will still be loaded, and it will still be pointed at YOU.
What kind of neighbourhoods do you guys live in to need guns? I've seen Lazs's area from his car pics, and it looks OK - I wouldn't bother too much about a gun if I lived there. But when I look at quotes like those above, it makes me glad to be a PP - Provincial Pissant. Where I live is mostly tranquil. I live just a few minutes drive from this spot - hugely popular with Americans, judging from the number I run into.
-
You once again ignored my question? Why not answer it?
The area I live in is actually very nice and the neighbors where renters, the owner evicted them about 9 months after I moved in, since then I have never felt I needed a gun.
You seem to think guns make people bad. If not why is it bad for good people to own them?
I would rather have a gun and not need it then not have one it I ever do need it.
You wonder about the areas we live in? You say you spent allot of time in the U.S.?
I live in a great town, but 20 minutes away in two directions there are slums, that you can be killed in for wearing the wrong color. Even poor people have cars and can drive to a nice area and take what they want. I have never been robed, nor my house broken into, but many of my neighbors have.
You will never be able to take guns out of the hands of criminals. Ban them all you want, it is already illegal for a convicted criminal to own one, but they get them all the time.
The big bank robbery where a few years back where the Jokers shot up LA with full auto assault rifles did not buy them legally, nor in the U.S.
You ban guns in the U.S. and you make me and many gun owners criminals cause we will not give them up.
The day they ban them is the day my get stolen.
-
GTO - you seem to have stopped laughing! :D
Sorry not to have answered your question last time. I have since done some digging, and come up with a Home Office document with a wealth of crime stats for all pissant countries. I have .ZIPped it and attach it here - it is a .PDF document, so you can open it with Adobe Acrobat.
The answer to your question lies on page 3, on which murder stats are given as murders per 100,000 people. In England and Wales, that figure is given as 1.5. For the USA, the value is 6.3. In Washington DC, it is 50.8. Not sure of the exact UK population figure, but it's around 57,000,000 - but that includes Scotland and Northern Ireland. So, by extrapolation, I would assume that the annual number of murders in England and Wales for the period analysed (1999) would be between 600 and 800. I would rather have a gun and not need it then not have one it I ever do need it.
I prefer the third option, which is not to have a gun and not to need one.
Yes I do know your area, GTO. When I was there, Fremont was on the end of the BART line. I guess you would take the Nimitz south from Oakland to drive there. Wasn't that the highway damaged by the Oct-18th 1989 quake? I have been to Oakland, and I guess that's one of the problem areas to which you refer. My ex-girlfriend's sister lives there, in an apt. overlooking Lake Merritt. Parts of Oakland are actually quite nice.
You are a family man? I wouldn't have thought that GTO was a family car. :confused: But perhaps you have another car. I have two cars, both of them German. :p
-
beetle... I can't recall you ever giving me a hard time. I recall you trying tho. I also have a quite different view of what "substantiate" means when it comes to you. I don't really see you substantiate anything any more than anyone else.
I have no doubt been to more cities in the U.S. than you have.
have guns or don't have em... I give you the choice.
I live in a nice enough area but.... section 8 housing and a government policy that says.... come here and we will quadruple your income and allow you to sit in one of our homes all day and do nothing... all you have to do is sneak in.
Well... with such policies there is no neighborhood that is safe save a gated one that has bodyguards.
Why do you fear law abiding citizens with firearms mister "sustantiate" ? Since said citizens prevent more than 1,000,000 crimes a year using said firearms... what statistic would lead you to believe that taking guns out of the hands of the ordinary citizen would be a good thing?
lazs
-
Lazs
Why do you fear law abiding citizens with firearms mister "sustantiate" ? Since said citizens prevent more than 1,000,000 crimes a year using said firearms... what statistic would lead you to believe that taking guns out of the hands of the ordinary citizen would be a good thing?
Well, put like that it sounds silly. What I would like is to be able to command guns out of existence. But we can't do that. So the USA has fallen victim to its policy of allowing the ordinary citizen to bear arms. And owing to impotent gun control laws, many criminals have guns. I'm not saying Britain is immune to it. We are going the same way and one wonders how long it will be before the British bobby is armed as a matter of course.
I've been reading that .PDF a bit more, and the answers to GTO's question are on p15. I will reproduce part of it here for convenience.
-
Oh... I get it...
Regardless of what the media would have us believe... homicides are on the decline in this country.
-
See we can have a discussion without calling each other names or making noodle jokes.
Oakland has some good places, true, but do not get lost in the bad areas.
There is also East Palo alto. But the it has calmed a bit now.
Hayward is not great and going down hill. and San Jose has some very bad places.
With a glance at the numbers in your acrobat file, it does show murder, without guns. That is my point.
You also can take English culture and compare it very well to U.S. culture.
The U.S. was made with the gun, we fought off our colonial controllers with them.
We tamed a vast area of land with guns. Without them it could not have been done.
The whole wild west thing is all about guns.
The people of the U.S. for the most part like them or at least tolerate them. I am not sure on the numbers but like 1 in every 3 houses has at least one gun.
They are just part of being a U.S. citizen.
Answer this. Why is it bad for me to own a gun. The odds of my gun hurting anyone is VERY low. Why do you want to take away my hobby?
Have you ever shot one? It is a pretty fun thing to do.
Oh and the GTO could be a family car it does fit 4 people well.
I own a 2002 full-size Chevy truck and a 2000 Jeep. I drive the Jeep the most. Since the woman claimed the truck.
-
What about Olympic Biathletes? Ski to get the heart pumping, then attempt to calm down and shoot a .22 at a little disk, then repeat all over again. Or other "paper punchers?" Are these folks dangerous and evil also because they enjoy shooting or "worship firearms?"
I made a post here a long while ago about how owning a gun shouldn't make other people look at you funny. If I had one of these (I would love to someday, but they are $$$):
http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/pm/main.php?kid=6&l=d
would I have an inadequate personality? Pls think it over before you make generalizations. A gun does not magically transform you into a psycho killer, much less a bully.
Btw, all I own for now is this:
http://www.samicksports.com/e_products_progress_1.htm
but everytime I read about the high school smallbore matches we have here in Hawaii (that's where I started with firearms - and no we didn't turn out any violent killers in my class either) I get the urge to get the former and pick the sport up again.
mauser
-
GTO
See we can have a discussion without calling each other names or making noodle jokes.
Of course we can. I don't know you very well, and that shiver remark in your sig. made you sound like a salamander. Please change it. With a glance at the numbers in your acrobat file, it does show murder, without guns. That is my point.
The stats show that 765 people were murdered in England & Wales in 1999. The figure for the USA is about 20 times that. Your population is about 4 times the size of ours, so you have about 5 times the murder rate than we do. I can dig out some stats if you insist, but I think the majority of the 15,000+ people murdered in the USA in 1999 would have been killed by handguns. Let me ask you a question: If you wanted to kill someone, how would you do it? A gun is the obvious choice. I remember reading that in 1980 there were more than 10,000 handgun deaths in the US. I'm not saying it's bad for you personally to have a gun, but you must answer another question: How did so many guns get into the wrong hands? I suspect that it's because of ineffective gun control laws, inadequate background checks, and guns which once were legally owned - like yours - being stolen and getting into the hands of criminals. If I am wrong, please enlighten me!
-
I changed my sig back lol gues the bait got stinky!
Hmm what's to keep my gun from being stolen? I keep it locked up and hidden, I am sure a burglar could find it if he tried hard enough but, the neighbors are pretty watchful now.
I will be getting a gun safe that will bolt to the wall and will not be mobile or open able in the near future.
How do guns get into the hands of criminals? Theft, unscrupulous dealers(they just changed the laws for federal fire arms dealer permits I think to make this harder? Someone else might know more about it)
Some prolly come over the border illegally.
There will be a huge market for guns from Mexico if they ever do get banned.
I am all for background checks that work. I am all for mandatory safety classes. I am all for very strict laws if you use a gun in crime.
But to take them away, will just make people like me criminals. It will also cause huge problems with enforcement. We are already wasting huge amounts of money on the stupid war on drug, we do not need a war on guns.
My only point about the murders is people will find a way to kill one another.
If I wanted to murder someone and not get caught I would take a good knife and sneak into their house and kill them in their sleep, hell if you where good you prolly could get the whole family and get out without anyone knowing... :eek:
Sure a gun is easy, but murder is murder, I would bet, you take guns away in the U.S. crime goes up and murder only goes down a little bit.
-
People from Europe and even most people from the urban United States fail to really comprehend the vastness of rural America. When I was a kid I could grab the shotgun, head off the back porch, and spend the next two days in the woods. Sometimes call the neighbor's son and see if he wanted to walk the mile to meet halfway. You have public lands that would be overrun with dying animals if there were not yearly hunts to thin them. You might have a officer or two less than an hour's drive away (a police station near where I grew up made news as the smallest in the nation. It was a phone booth that the policeman would park his car next to in case it rang).
Then you will see someone on TV saying there is no need for a gun in the house with the current availability of security systems? The provincial ignorance in a statement such as that goes beyond any trailer park joke I have ever heard. It's also why the rural poor feel deserted by the democratic party (unless you buy the argument that everyone between Philadelphia and Los Angeles are filthy rich vacation homes).
-
Ananova:
Public feels street crime is worsening - survey
The majority of the public believe street crime has got worse despite the Government's claims it is tackling the problem.
A new survey shows 53% of people think street crime has worsened in the past six months.
This is despite the Government's disputed figures showing street crime in the country's 10 worst areas has dropped 14% in that time.
And most people also have little confidence the police will catch criminals, with many worried to leave home at night and most wanting courts to get tougher.
The ICM poll asked 1,009 people across the UK aged 14 and over for their attitudes on crime for a study commissioned by BBC1 for Cracking Crime, a day of programmes to be shown on Wednesday devoted to the issue.
The poll results show in the 10 targeted areas where police have been cracking down on street crime under orders from the Government, 7% say they or a member of their family had been mugged in the past 12 months.
The fear of crime was also significant, the poll shows. Almost a quarter, 24%, of those over 55 say they are too worried to leave their houses at night for fear of being mugged and 32% of parents of children aged ten to 16 say they are too worried to let them go out after dark.
On the police, 80% are not confident they would catch a burglar or car thief and 71% say the same about a mugger.
The public will be able to question the Home Secretary David Blunkett about the findings during a studio debate.
Story filed: 23:16 Tuesday 17th September 2002
Related stories:
Parents more protective after Soham murders
00:04 Thursday 19th September 2002
Survey shows one child in five is crime victim
01:28 Monday 16th September 2002
-
Originally posted by mauser
What about Olympic Biathletes? Ski to get the heart pumping, then attempt to calm down and shoot a .22 at a little disk, then repeat all over again. Or other "paper punchers?" Are these folks dangerous and evil also because they enjoy shooting or "worship firearms?"
mauser
I heard that British Olympians (Pistol shooters especially) were required to cross the channel to practice in order to follow the law. They may have made an exception by now...
-
nice chart - from The Economist?
we're kicking Estonia's oscar
USA!
USA!
USA!
-
Originally posted by john9001
Ananova:
Public feels street crime is worsening - survey
The majority of the public believe street crime has got worse despite the Government's claims it is tackling the problem.
A new survey shows 53% of people think street crime has worsened in the past six months.
This is despite the Government's disputed figures showing street crime in the country's 10 worst areas has dropped 14% in that time.
And most people also have little confidence the police will catch criminals, with many worried to leave home at night and most wanting courts to get tougher.
You want to feel safe? Turn off the television. The networks peddle fear because it's good for advertising. You are the product that is being bought and sold by the networks and the marketing firms.
-
not only that, but those surveys underestimate their error margins by orders of magnitude
-
In reference to the chart posted by Beetle one must also remember that homicide statistics published by the FBI show ALL homicides, even those committed by the police and homeowners defending themselves against attackers.
In spite of that, the chart shows that homicides in the U.S. DROPPED 28% between 1995 and 1999, or more than 6,000 deaths.
Regards, Shuckins
-
I might also add that the vast majority of those "murders" are murderers murdering other murderers.. They are a good thing.
I have used a firearm several times in the past to stop criminal action against me or others and have used them to kill dangerous dogs. You will have a difficult time convincing me that I did, and do, not need a firearm..
The point remains... firearms are part of our heritage and our constitution. They prevent more violence than they cause and they are of very little risk in anyone but a career criminals hands. To disarm the very people who prevent crime, defend themselves, help keep criminals in check, and have a constitutional right to own firearms is ludicrous and badly thought out.
The U.S. can be a very dangerous place with it's melting pot society and economic layers.. I wouldn't have it any other way tho. I like the diversity and freedom. Apparently a lot of other folks do also but.... I am a pragmatic. I see the need to be armed. As has been said here earlier... when facing desperate men I would rather be armed with a firearm than a cell phone or pepper spray. It just makes the situation either go away or... come out in my favor. When I am 70 I don't want tobe afraid to leave my home for a walk at night.
lazs
-
sandman
that article i posted was from the UK, why did you edit out all references to the UK in your quote?
did you want to make it sound like it was from the USA?
44MAG
-
Most of my friends are not gun people and the mention of NRA brings smiles to their faces. They think it is a huge Joke. Nothing more then a front for rednecks and idiots.
I do not agree, though I think they stand to firm on things like background checks.
Is it just cause I am in California? LoL we all know how it is here :D
-
Originally posted by john9001
sandman
that article i posted was from the UK, why did you edit out all references to the UK in your quote?
did you want to make it sound like it was from the USA?
44MAG
To be honest, I thought it was about the U.S. I've read stories like this before. Got about midway through and I'd pretty much heard enough. I quoted what I read.
IMO, opinion polls are generally worthless.