Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Midnight on October 12, 2002, 09:44:20 AM
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Please remove Kills per Hour from the ranking calculation. It is unfair to guys like me that fly 10 minutes into enemy territory before engaging.
I spend at least 15 minutes of most sorties either flying to or coming back from engagements
Thank you
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Kills per time only rewards/encourages vulching.
It discourages...
1:Flying perk planes.
2:Covering goons.
3:Flying early war/slow climbing planes.
4:Escorting buffs.
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I think scores should be kept by kills LANDED per hour.
Or make a new ranking system by just adding a new type of rank.
The current one with kills per hour and the new one with kills landed per hour.
That way the furballdweeb horde can say "I shoot down more planes than you, look at my rank!" and the scorepotato dweeb can say "yah? well I LANDED them, look at my (newrankname)!"
And then we need another new type of rank specifically for Fester and Mitsu. ;) :D
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I think some people should quit looking at their scores. Who cares? Anyway the points system is flawed. I have only five kills, have yet to land one and I have over 3200 points. Voss has tons of landed kills yet he only has like six points. Does this mean I'm a better pilot than Voss? According to the scorecard I'm better than ALL of you.
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According to the scorecard I'm better than ALL of you.
No you're not :p
I liek Tac's idea though, kills landed/time. very good idea.
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landing's over-rated. how can you be helping your side win the war when you're wasting time rtb?
:D
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Originally posted by Airhead
I think some people should quit looking at their scores. Who cares? Anyway the points system is flawed. I have only five kills, have yet to land one and I have over 3200 points. Voss has tons of landed kills yet he only has like six points. Does this mean I'm a better pilot than Voss? According to the scorecard I'm better than ALL of you.
That's rank.
The lower the number the better.
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Originally posted by Innominate
That's rank.
The lower the number the better.
most of the lower number guys are pretty rank...
:eek:
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Voss only has like 6 points because all his kills are proxy kills whilst he hides in ack :)
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I believe that kill/hour is the only important stat. I believe that it should be weighed the most heavily in the rank equation in order to discourage the cowardly alt monkeies and those who refuse to engage unless they have what they consider a risk free attack.
The fact that it discourages the flying of late model uber planes in the arena is simply a bonus....
The fact that only the score potatos are affected by the kills per hour stat is a perfect reason to weigh it more heavily since their cowardly behavior is what we should be trying to discourage.
lazs
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What a complete surprise, Laz...
Oh... and nice catch there AirHead.
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remove accuracy also
that would make my day
thank u
Top 25 pilots per fighter plane would be nice
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Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that kill/hour is the only important stat. I believe that it should be weighed the most heavily in the rank equation in order to discourage the cowardly alt monkeies and those who refuse to engage unless they have what they consider a risk free attack.
The fact that it discourages the flying of late model uber planes in the arena is simply a bonus....
The fact that only the score potatos are affected by the kills per hour stat is a perfect reason to weigh it more heavily since their cowardly behavior is what we should be trying to discourage.
lazs
I agree that always "playing it safe" should be discouraged, however a high K/D ratio is the mark of a true Ace. If you do not have a K/D of at least 5/1 you would never have become an Ace in the real world (and the game is named "Aces High" is it not?).
Btw. I'm not even close to a 5/1, prolly never will be. ;)
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2 to 1, 5 to 1, 10 to 1- in real life the only meaningful number to a pilot is the "1". They didn't get to respawn.
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Oh come on. There's NOTHING wrong with the scoring system. For a while (haven't looked lately) the number 1 ranked bomber pilot few one sortie, and he died doing it.
That's a pretty good recommendation for the Number 1 spot if you ask me.
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Just about every stat trades off on every other stat. One stat will reward one flying style more than another (by and large).
Meaning... if you fly to live and are very selective about your fights, you'll probably have a very high K/D and K/S, but a low K/T. If you're a furballer, your K/D and K/S will be lower, but you'll probably have a higher K/T.
Arguing that K/T encourages vulching doesn't hold water either, because all stats go up from vulching. Someone who vulches all the time will have an extremely high K/D, K/S, K/T, and hit percentage to show for it. With that in mind, we might as well just eliminate stats entirely if vulching bothers you.
So no, K/T belongs as much as any other stat does, though I do find the self-serving whining every couple of weeks about it to be quite amusing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Tac
I think scores should be kept by kills LANDED per hour.
PERFECT!!!!!
Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that kill/hour is the only important stat. I believe that it should be weighed the most heavily in the rank equation in order to discourage the cowardly alt monkeies and those who refuse to engage unless they have what they consider a risk free attack.
The fact that it discourages the flying of late model uber planes in the arena is simply a bonus....
The fact that only the score potatos are affected by the kills per hour stat is a perfect reason to weigh it more heavily since their cowardly behavior is what we should be trying to discourage.
lazs
I disagree with Lazs.. As usual. The majority of my fights this tour have been flying further behind enemy lines by my self and setting up ambushes for enemy flying to the front line bases. Yes, the first kill or two is usually easy because most guys are not keeping their SA up while they are deep in their friendly territory. However, after they know I am there, it becomes a sturggle of E fighting, trying to attack them as they climb, yet maintain enough E to zoom back up as the next two try to climb above me. Hardley 'Cowardly' as lazs states. Last night, I got 8 kills over an enemy field with 2-vs-12 odds.
The reason I don't like Kills/Hour is that it takes time to fight an E fight in enemy territory. You can't simply chase every bandit down to the deck, because you know is pals are not far away. In some cases, you are dragging one on your six as you attack another. I probably could have had a 10 or 11 kill sortie if I didn't have to let a few of them get away, even after I shot out their rads or oil.
It's just not possble to keep K/T high when flying long missions that involve 10 or more minutes just getting to where you are going to fight. Switching to, or adding kills landed per hour would be a great idea.
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Don't get addicted to scoring... it's bad on a long run :) :(
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Just about every stat trades off on every other stat. One stat will reward one flying style more than another (by and large).
Meaning... if you fly to live and are very selective about your fights, you'll probably have a very high K/D and K/S, but a low K/T. If you're a furballer, your K/D and K/S will be lower, but you'll probably have a higher K/T.
Arguing that K/T encourages vulching doesn't hold water either, because all stats go up from vulching. Someone who vulches all the time will have an extremely high K/D, K/S, K/T, and hit percentage to show for it. With that in mind, we might as well just eliminate stats entirely if vulching bothers you.
So no, K/T belongs as much as any other stat does, though I do find the self-serving whining every couple of weeks about it to be quite amusing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Exactly!
eskimo
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Kills per time only rewards/encourages vulching.
It discourages...
1:Flying perk planes.
2:Covering goons.
3:Flying early war/slow climbing planes.
4:Escorting buffs.
ahh.. Kills per time also rewqards aggresiveness. Nothing wrong with that. The system is fine. You as the pilot can select the categories that are important to you to follow.
If anything, I expected folks to complain about the influence of hit percentage on score:)
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also, guys that fly cannon birds (given an equal amount of gunnery skill) will have a better hit percentage than those that fly multi machine gun armed AC
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Originally posted by Steve
Voss only has like 6 points because all his kills are proxy kills whilst he hides in ack :)
Ahem, no proxy kills in fighter category this tour. Try again.
BTW, why does my handle keep popping up in these threads? I suck at ACM, remember? :D
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I would think it'd be the other way 'round Ammo. Takes more rounds to bring down an enemy with MGs, therefore more hits, therefore more hit%.
I know my hit% jumped 1.5% after 1 sortie in the 109F4, coming from the 190. I shot down a goon with MGs and had to finish off a P38 with MGs too.
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midnight.... perfect description of cowardly flying. Thanks.
DMF has summed it up but your flight description is a perfect description of the type of behavior I don't want to see rewarded... I see plenty of cowardly wusses up at 12+ K in mustangs and othe late war fast planes looking for someone who is busy actually fighting so that they can take advantage of plane choice in an other wise early/mid war arena. circling around trying to find someone who dioesnt see you should not be rewarded unduly. There is one whole squad of mustangs who make a habit of it.. everyone knows who they are.
lazs
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Does that make me the best?
Originally posted by Innominate
That's rank.
The lower the number the better.
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Originally posted by lazs2
midnight.... perfect description of cowardly flying. Thanks.
DMF has summed it up but your flight description is a perfect description of the type of behavior I don't want to see rewarded... I see plenty of cowardly wusses up at 12+ K in mustangs and othe late war fast planes looking for someone who is busy actually fighting so that they can take advantage of plane choice in an other wise early/mid war arena. circling around trying to find someone who dioesnt see you should not be rewarded unduly. There is one whole squad of mustangs who make a habit of it.. everyone knows who they are.
lazs
Actually, one plane holding up enemy reinforcements like that could be a deciding factor in a AF sige situation. Sending a few planes to attack the enemy staging AF while the rest defends is a sound tactic, and should not be dismissed as "unfair". If you want fairness to be a factor, stick to duelling. The Main Arena is a WAR, not a friendly game of chess.
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Please don't remove the sissy factor from scoring.
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The Main Arena is a WAR
I've found if I pick my spots I can have a blast inspite of it...
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Originally posted by Urchin
I would think it'd be the other way 'round Ammo. Takes more rounds to bring down an enemy with MGs, therefore more hits, therefore more hit%.
I know my hit% jumped 1.5% after 1 sortie in the 109F4, coming from the 190. I shot down a goon with MGs and had to finish off a P38 with MGs too.
I look at this way, taks many less hits to down the enemy (especially in a hispano or Mg 151 bird. This means less shooting, Plane dies on the first pass.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
also, guys that fly cannon birds (given an equal amount of gunnery skill) will have a better hit percentage than those that fly multi machine gun armed AC
AND:
I look at this way, taks many less hits to down the enemy (especially in a hispano or Mg 151 bird. This means less shooting, Plane dies on the first pass.
No ammo. I think it's the other way around. And I have the perfect example to prove it, me in the Bf109G6. Before I used to fly it with the 30mm only, never 1x20mm 2x13mm. When you fly the 30mm its the only gun you fire due to wierd balistics and it kills in one hit. My hit% was about 5-6% average nearly every tour. Then I started using the 20mm/13mm combo, where I always fire all three guns thus far more bullets than with the 30mm, my hit% went up much higher sometimes even average of 15%. By your theory of firing fewer bullets and more damage per bullet the 30mm hit% would be much better, but the 20mm/13mm combo gave me much better results, and dont tell anyone more kills per sortie are possible with that combo too... :D And no I'm not any better today than before, in fact my flying/dogfight/ aircraft controls skill is very poor now because I hardly ever fly last appx. one year.
BTW my hit% is also much higher with Bf109G6 1x20mm 2x13mm then when I flew FW190A5 when I only carried and fired the inboard 2x20mm and never used the 7.92mm MG.
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Ammo, go up and attack a buff with MG's.
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When I was a kid we used to ride a horse. It was an ugly horse but everyone liked it.
As far as this thread is concerned.....what was the question?
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Originally posted by Steve
Voss only has like 6 points because all his kills are proxy kills whilst he hides in ack :)
Made Voss auger 2 times, me in 205, him in el gay 7, made my night. I did shoot him down a third time, and he still says he owes me 3 deaths. I must be better than I think I am:D
And sorry for the slow reply Voss, I always squelch ch1 as soon as I get in, my squadies told me you were commenting on the event:D
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Just about every stat trades off on every other stat. One stat will reward one flying style more than another (by and large).
Meaning... if you fly to live and are very selective about your fights, you'll probably have a very high K/D and K/S, but a low K/T. If you're a furballer, your K/D and K/S will be lower, but you'll probably have a higher K/T.
Arguing that K/T encourages vulching doesn't hold water either, because all stats go up from vulching. Someone who vulches all the time will have an extremely high K/D, K/S, K/T, and hit percentage to show for it. With that in mind, we might as well just eliminate stats entirely if vulching bothers you.
So no, K/T belongs as much as any other stat does, though I do find the self-serving whining every couple of weeks about it to be quite amusing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Ditto
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no no...
AH should have TWO ways of keeping score.
The Landed Kills per Hour
And
Kills per Hour
That way the Suicide Furball & Spray/Pray cannon pilots can have their own stats and the Alt Monkey & Premeditated Gank pilots can have theirs.
What midnight said is true as well, the landed kills per hour will probably get porked for the pilot if he has to fly a long ways to get to the enemy or fight smart (aka take long time).
But, if BOTH systems are used, you can just compare Landed Kills per Hour with Kills per hour. Maybe average both out and get your "final" stat from those?
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I don't buy any of this crap. The scoring system works fine as it is. You want to know the 'secret'? Do really good in one or two stats, and average or good in the rest. You'll be ranked in the top 50 every time. Yea, I know this means you have to be a pretty good pilot to, but that is why the scoring system works.
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well, it is just theory. I had sett this in my mind due to discussions with squadmates, and my own reasoning within my mind. I seem to do better with hispano birds than I do with my P-47. My tactics don't seem to change, but my hit % certainly goes up a notch or two. I normally keep my hit percentage (fighter only) in the 11-12 % range. This tour, I flew the Chog and the one thing about that thing is while my p-47 shreds enemy AC well, the Chog just oblitterates them by just tapping the trigger. The difference being the amount of rounds needed to kill is dramatically different. Now, *if* I was good enough to keep my bullet stream on target during all the manuevering with my P-47, my hit percentage would be higher. Right now I have a 16% hit percentage. I attribute that to 2 things, flying the chog, and vulching bombers :) The bigger the target, the better your percentage.
I saw something in here one day that alluded that if you shoot your OWN hangers, it improves your hit percentage, is that really true?
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Originally posted by Lazerus
Made Voss auger 2 times, me in 205, him in el gay 7, made my night. I did shoot him down a third time, and he still says he owes me 3 deaths. I must be better than I think I am:D
And sorry for the slow reply Voss, I always squelch ch1 as soon as I get in, my squadies told me you were commenting on the event:D
Lol, yeah that was great! :) You didn't shoot me down though. They were all midairs with your bud, or you. I was trying to stay out of, and keep from hitting the other bishop there (dunno who). Caution to the wind and all that, so you can't say I'm uber-safe now can you?
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I don't think it is true, but I haven't tried it. I know in fighter mode a bullet counts as a miss unless it hits an enemy plane, so shooting GVs and ack and buildings makes your accuracy go down. I do it anyway, I could care less.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
I saw something in here one day that alluded that if you shoot your OWN hangers, it improves your hit percentage, is that really true?
Huh? So, maybe that is what Shane was saying in that other thread. Man, that's lame! It's not surprising Shane would know about it, though.
hmm, bet it only works in attack, though, as fighter gunnery (I know) only counts when you hit airplanes.
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I gave up on the AH ranking/score scheme when once my rank improved from about 400 to something like 48 after flying two bomber sorties. Made no sense....
As for my flying style I just go out and attack but with the aim not to get shot at or at least not get myself trapped in stupid escapeless situations. This way I can still be agressive and get lots of kills per sortie a decent K/D, and a good K/T, even with a slow plane like the Bf109G6. This type of attack flying is fun for me.
So ya'll P51 runstang dweebs stop whining about K/T, I run out of fuel in my G6 before I run out of ammo in many 6-7 kill sorties - even with the light single 20mm armament... With your fuel and ammo loads I see no reason why you experienced P51 guys arent getting huge K/T and K/S all the time.
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K/T have no meaning at all because they punish the people doing something as realistic as long fighter sweeps, friendly CAP, buff interception towards HQ, scorting buffs, etc.
In the other hand, Hit% is too dependant on the guns u use and the target u fire at. Do you want a boost in your hit%, find a goon and discard all your bullets in it.
IMO, K/T and Hit% should be deleted but considered for points when your flight ends, as well as other factors as fuel loaded or time of the day. Taking off with 100% fuel at night and getting a kill should rewards more points and taking off with 25% at morning time and getting the same kill.
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If we didn't have k/t how would we know who the pansies are?
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I'll tell ya what's not fair!!!
I have smoked for 25 years...I cannot smoke in my home(4 kids, 1 wifey)...so, I go to the garage as soon as I take off. I enjoy this initial smoke as it prepares me for battle(approx. time elapsed, 7-10 mins).
Now, when I return, I'm somewhere in the vicinity of 15k to 20k, depending on the occasional stop to the head. So....
NOW, I have to suffer the criticism of Lazs about how I have no courage and I'm a weenie, yada yada yada!!!
I dont' think I can stand this any longer............I QUIT!!!!
:mad:
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LOL rude:) Lazs is the altimeter police, you know that:)
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sholz.... i did not use the word "unfair" even once. there is nothing unfair about coming in fast from up high after spending 10-20 minutes getting into position of being untouchable... I simply think it is wussy behavior and should not be rewarded. It takes less skill thatn surviving in a furball.
as DMF pointed out.. to get consistent, high Kills per hour you have to put yourself at risk. To get high K/d or even K/S all you have to do is be very very very patient and cowardly in a very fast plane. You need to rearm and refuel a lot. To have the second wave of every base attack be high, fast planes fighting for risk free scraps is what causes them to have low Kills per hour. they don't deserve anything more considering the lack of risk they are taking.
I don't care about score so much but realize that it can modify behavior to some extent. I don't want timidityu to be rewarded as it make s the game slow and boring.
lazs
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well rude... you are a weinie but for different reasons.... And I'm sick of you shouting at me!
Fact is... I was not talking about the 13th... they end up fighting. Ammo fights too. You guys have chosen planes that aren't that good in a dogfite and you still put yourselves at risk. There is a mustang squad tho that is very timid and never fights at risk and I think you both know who it is... hell... you guys probly chased em a lot more than I have. I pretty much ignore em.
lazs
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Well, I finally got my K/T up in attack mode at the cost of bombing accuracy. Midnight, you don't have a problem here. You are WAY above average.
Now to work on fighter mode.
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What is this rank thing?
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And why does anybody care about it?
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Originally posted by Sachs
What is this rank thing?
something weenies use to try and make themselves look like a hotdog.
:D
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Lazs... you really are thick headed. The 412th fights at risk a lot more than you think or would ever admit. Yeah.. just say it.. you're talking about the 412th with what you say, but your too timid to actually speak the words.
On a routine basis, the 412th with carry Ords to enemy bases BEHIND the front lines to strike the enemy at their homes, where they think they are safe. Striking the enemy where we are far from home and an easy escape.
Here is a film I made this morning. I would love to hear from the "macho" pilots out there, would this be considered 'at risk' flying, or does it only count if you are furballing at 200MPH in a turn fight at 1000 feet?
http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj/zips/isthistimid.zip
Originally posted by lazs2
midnight.... perfect description of cowardly flying. Thanks.
DMF has summed it up but your flight description is a perfect description of the type of behavior I don't want to see rewarded... I see plenty of cowardly wusses up at 12+ K in mustangs and othe late war fast planes looking for someone who is busy actually fighting so that they can take advantage of plane choice in an other wise early/mid war arena. circling around trying to find someone who dioesnt see you should not be rewarded unduly. There is one whole squad of mustangs who make a habit of it.. everyone knows who they are.
[/B]
Originally posted by lazs2
sholz.... i did not use the word "unfair" even once. there is nothing unfair about coming in fast from up high after spending 10-20 minutes getting into position of being untouchable... I simply think it is wussy behavior and should not be rewarded. It takes less skill thatn surviving in a furball.
as DMF pointed out.. to get consistent, high Kills per hour you have to put yourself at risk. To get high K/d or even K/S all you have to do is be very very very patient and cowardly in a very fast plane. You need to rearm and refuel a lot. To have the second wave of every base attack be high, fast planes fighting for risk free scraps is what causes them to have low Kills per hour. they don't deserve anything more considering the lack of risk they are taking.
I don't care about score so much but realize that it can modify behavior to some extent. I don't want timidityu to be rewarded as it make s the game slow and boring.
lazs
Originally posted by lazs2
well rude... you are a weinie but for different reasons.... And I'm sick of you shouting at me!
Fact is... I was not talking about the 13th... they end up fighting. Ammo fights too. You guys have chosen planes that aren't that good in a dogfite and you still put yourselves at risk. There is a mustang squad tho that is very timid and never fights at risk and I think you both know who it is... hell... you guys probly chased em a lot more than I have. I pretty much ignore em.
lazs
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You fly the Mustang as it should be flown. You appear to have good SA as well.
No, it's not 'at risk' fighting, but I would not expect that out of a P51. When you do see it (what ever happened to RWY anyway?) it's a scarey sight and very unexpected.
Midnight, what these guys want you to do is break every rule you have set forth for flying the P51, and survive it anyway. That's the only way they'll ever have a chance of besting you in your plane. Then, they can strut and parade after they get you into a 30v1 fight and somehow put the extra bullet into you that claims the kill. It doesn't matter how amazing you are on the deck, or way up high, either. There's no convincing them that they're wrong.
BTW, nice back shooting on those first three planes. I love that!
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The worst thing about kills-per-hour is that it punishes people who fly during off peak times, when there are only 60 people online.
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You couldn't be more wrong...
Originally posted by Airhead
2 to 1, 5 to 1, 10 to 1- in real life the only meaningful number to a pilot is the "1". They didn't get to respawn.
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So what you're saying is not only do you guys run from fights but ya milkrunners as well ? :D
Originally posted by Midnight
On a routine basis, the 412th with carry Ords to enemy bases BEHIND the front lines to strike the enemy at their homes, where they think they are safe. Striking the enemy where we are far from home and an easy escape.
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these guys want you to do is break every rule you have set forth for flying the P51
I guess you haven't seen Rude fly.
;)
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I've seen rude fly.. so has Voss. We were both in the 13th with him for a little while.
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I had a luvly 1 on 1 with Rude yesterday, we were going at it for quite some time, tiffie vs pony on the deck. He won :)
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Rudes a stud in the 51.
I always have to stop running and come back and save him:)
13th Tas has changed a lot in the last couple a months.
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I've winged with Rude a coupla times in the last few weeks...we always end up bout 1-2k on the deck with our hair on fire, all kinds of rooks or knits pissed at us, we've got re-ups and their friends coming with alt...ammo mags virtually empty, my plane is usually leaking something that looks important and I always gotta be the guy sayin, "yo rude maybe we should out"
...and I'm the guy driving the f6 ;)
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Midnight,very nice film,loved watching it.You fly the pony to its potential,for sure.
How did the good pilots fly in WW2? Divin for the first furball they saw?Nope.
If some guys get fun outa SA and working the situation,and making it home without some dweeb killing them,more power to them!
The yank and bank dweebs that cry when they cant slug home,be damned.Life is full of trade offs.
Corn
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To hear Lazs talk you'd think everyone who ever flies a pony (or a late war plane for that matter) wears high heels and only ever slips them off to run away. Some pony drivers must be hanging around to fight though, otherwise Lazs wouldn't have such an inferiority complex...
Anyway, getting back on topic, I think that the rank system at the moment is pretty hosed, but as it only effects who drives the CV I'm not too stressed about it. I play during off peak times mainly so my k/t is hopeless as I usually have to spend ages finding another plane, let alone shoot one down.
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
I usually have to spend ages finding another plane, let alone shoot one down.
pssssttt... HTC provides us with a map (press your esc key) - usable in flight, even - the big colored squares in the upper left land corners of sectors represent relative enemy activity... if your country has working radar, global and local, you may also see small colored dots that represent individual planes.
red color = bad guys.
green color = good guys.
glad to be of help to noobs.
:D
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lol Shane, thx for the tip...
P.S. Most of the time when I'm online there are less than 60 ppl. Couple that with the pizza map and there is virtually nil chance of a furball.
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Some guys find very atractive wining the war. Others just are happy when they capture a field or they dont let the enemy capture a friendly base. Others just want to spend a while in front of their screen wasting adrenaline. Others are happy when they get a kill and angry when they are shot down. So scores describe only a low % on the guys in the arena,but.....
Ok ..if we only take thist last sort of guys, also you can imagine that several of this guys have a high rank just because they dont want to die, whatever the price...it is their fun of the game, and maybe they are even not thinking in scores when they fly. Ahhhh "This guy only vulchs and fites when he has advtage blah blah blah....he IS a score adiccted!!!!.....maybe not. Maybe he just dont want to die......is his target not to die...just for fun ..not for score. So, lets give a chance to the guys who vulch, gangbang, run home, etc...and lets forget about the score system.
Of course..I vulch and I fite as often as it is possible with numbers and alt...now, Am I missing something?
Salute ..... friend of AH skies.
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I stand by what I've said... you don't need to fly the fast plane every sortie and use it as an excuse for being timid in the main.
I talked to rude and toad and co. at the con.. they said they had changed a lot in their views... I was sceptical but it is true. they even fly planes that have to fight once in a while.
lazs
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Lazs
I wish we could settle this dispute like neanderthals, but alas we must abide by the laws set forth by our forefathers.
To that end, I realize that I cannot win this aurgument as long as you choose to try and keep lowering it to a mud slinging contest.
It is obvious that you do not care about score, or getting your plane home safely. Personally, I don't care how you fly, or what you fly, however I take offense when you try to berate my flying methods and preferances.
The Mustang is fast, everyone knows it. There are also several other planes that are just as fast and faster. Even though the Mustang has better top speeds, it accelerates poorly and does not hold E as well as the LA7, N1K, 109G-10.
The 412th uses this A/C in a role it is best suited. Apparently, we are the only ones who realize that we get down in the muck and slug it out with bandits, while the rest of you seem to think we spend all of our time at 25K. What is fact and what is fiction will be seen as time goes on, but if scores are any indication, the 412th either flies 'at risk' a lot more than preceived, or there are a lot of bandits flying at 25k with us.
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Then why do you have such a problem with k/t?
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I'll just have to live with K/T and figure out how to improve my numbers
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Then fight faster.
No one criticized your flying until you said theirs should not be rewarded.
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The great thing about diversity, is that folks are different. (Yogiism)
C'mon guys...who cares how anyone flies? For our squad, the trick is to kill folks and live to laugh about it.
Last night, Fish, WT and myself bagged 22 kills in one hop....it was FUN...remember that word anyone?:)
Midnight....
The 13th is no where near the same squad as it was when you were in it...that's neither a good thing or a bad thing...just a different thing. I hate to admit it, but I admired the way some guys in this game can yank and bank, so I decided to broaden the squads horizon a bit. Many of the 13th had at one time some knife fighten skills, it's just that when you've flown for 12 years, ya tend to forget things and get rusty.
We now have more fun not worrying so much about survival and just plain gettin it on! Our goal as a squad, is to fly aggressively while taking risks and to still survive. Face it...dyin just plain sucks. Anyone who doesn't mind gettin their butt handed to them is a girlscout.:)
Just do what ya want...it's always made me grin when folks tell me how I should fly.:)
Ya know, I get all warm and fuzzy inside just reflecting on how wonderful it is that we have a place where we can come together and laugh, cry, get angry, share our opinions and deepest feelings with each other all the while, killing, disrupting and tormenting our fellow players.
It truly is a fine thing that Dale has given us. All of you should learn to count your blessings.
:)
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Originally posted by Midnight
The Mustang is fast, everyone knows it. There are also several other planes that are just as fast and faster.
He is right you know :) I have found 152 interesting against the pony.
Turbot has 6 kills and has been killed 1 time in the Ta 152H against the P-51D.
Back on topic: I tried to do the rank thing this tour. I got into the 20's at my best. I don't think I will try that again, too much work! BUt it was nice to be able to take CV anywhere I wanted for once :)
P.S. (This camp I also set out to learn the 152 best I could, at all altitudes. I am sort of over the whole "152 is porked thing". It actually seems to be a quite capable plane - outruns the LA7 at 6k alt even. Just takes alot of patience to fly.)
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Midnight I dont get it. If your happy with your style and tactics what does k/t make a difference?
The only use rank has is to control the cv.......
The rest of it doesnt matter. The sats allow you to track your how you are doing and thats about all they are good for.
As long as you have fun then I dont see where it matters.
I dont think anybody really puts much stock in rank anyway.
Atleast dont let it detract from your fun.
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This is really simple but apparently some people don't get it.
1) Hit percentage is meaningless, either you kill the other aircraft or you don't. It shouldn't be part of the score.
2) A high kill/death indicates that you are doing something right. Getting a high kill/death is not easy.
3) A high kill/time indicates that you are doing something right. Getting a high kill/time is not easy.
It is very very difficult to have both a high kill/death and kill/time. If you try to push up one of these stats the other tends to suffer. If some can rank high in both of these stats, this indicates that they are very good. I personally think that a high "score" should mean that the pilot in question has a good chance to prevail under any circumstances, whether they start the fight with and advantage or disadvantge.
Hooligan
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I hate guys that sneak up on my 6 and shoot me when my back is turned- then when I turn around they fly away and try to get behind me again. How chicken is THAT? Real men fight face to face, mano y mano. When you see me coming you know I'll try to do the manly thing, which is to shoot you face to face.
I think HO kills should count for more points than a sneak attack against my back. Why does HT award cowardly behavior? I had one jerk last night sneak up, miss me, turn around to face me and I shot him, and he called ME names for fighting face to face!
They need to do away with scores because all that's happening is the arena is filling up with "Points Chickens-" all the REAL men are in Fighter Ace.
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or CFS !
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If I think about it really hard.... :confused:
You're right. I really don't care about rank that much in the MA. The conditions to get a lot of kills don't come easy. Some days, like Sunday night 10/13/2002 I couldn't be killed and was shooting everything down. This morning, I was having troubles even getting in firing position and was shot down twice for only 3 kills.
Whatever it is, I don't know. So I guess I just won't worry about it anymore until 1.11.
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midnight... you fly one of the fastest best late war planes when 90% of the rest of the arena can't touch you..... you fly it the way it should be flown to achieve a pretty much risk free kill.... you also fly with as many squadmates as you can that are all of a like mind....
That is all fine and is well within the rules of the arena but.... to do it all the time is..... taking advantage... gaming the game.... being timid... To advocate the removal of the only score penalty that penilizes such timid game the game blandness is..... beyond self serving. I think you guys might get a little more respect if you got into mediocre planes and duked it out once in a while.
normally when I see your planes hoving high over what was once a good fite I know it is time to leave and find a better fight somewhere rater than play dodge ball.
general lazs.
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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if i get laid before or during ah does that effect my overal score, hehe dmn betcha:D
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the best pilots are the ones that win the 1-1 ladders!
the best squads are the ones that win the squad vs squad duels.
not necessarily the same thing
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Dang ya Laz,,,,, coke spew on the moniter,,,,
dodgeball ----- thats to funny.
Think of the great squad names that will now be in.
for example-- "TheGoathumpindodgeballplayina ltmonkeysrus"
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Originally posted by lazs2
blah blah blah blah I'm macho, you're not blah blah blah blah you should all play my way blah blah blah blah I can speak for everyone here blah blah blah blah you ruin my fun when you play your way blah blah blah blah
general lazs.
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Lazs, the only thing you have shown is that you forget that this is a game. We are all sitting in front of a monitor, what we do while sitting there doesn't show how macho we are, it just shows how we each think the game should be played. Your endless crusade to insult everyone who doesn't play the game your way, flying the planes you approve of, is just stupid...
Midnight has suggested that the k/t stat not be included in calculating rank as it is a disadvantage for players who like to travel further than the nearest furball before looking for kills. It is also a disadvantage for those who like to land there kills. I personally don't think k/t should be entirely removed from the rank equation.
It was also suggested that the stats for landed kills be counted on a different scoring systems. I like this suggestion, with some modification. I would prefer not to see two scoring systems but rather base only the rankings on landed sorties only. That way, stats could still be kept (regardless of sortie outcome) but to gain in rank landing would be encouraged. It might even deter all of those suicide missions so many people are annoyed at...
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It was also suggested that the stats for landed kills be counted on a different scoring systems. I like this suggestion, with some modification. I would prefer not to see two scoring systems but rather base only the rankings on landed sorties only. That way, stats could still be kept (regardless of sortie outcome) but to gain in rank landing would be encouraged. It might even deter all of those suicide missions so many people are annoyed at...
Err, you mean in addition to kill/death and damage/death?
Landing is rewarded by the current system, though I haven't noticed that many furballers complaining about it detracting from their kill/time stats.
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Kill/death and damage/death still imply that death is okay as long as you get kills. I think the rank should be calculated on kills/sortie, kills/time, damage/sortie and hit percentage for landed sorties only. Continue to track k/d and d/d for all sorties but don't use them for calculating rank.
Thoughts/suggestions?
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as I and others have said... the stats equal out. The only worthless one is hit percentage probly.
If only landed sorties were counted then you would get what you wanted... your "style" of play would be rewarded more heavily but... it would tend to discourage the use of slow planes or medium fast planes going to other bases... all base attacks would be made in fast planes that could run home risk free.
maybe you are happy flying only one type of plane in one manner but I don't want to see an arena full of your ilk.
macho has nothing to do with it... timidity comes out in peoples personalities in lots of ways. In the game it is quite obvious. Prove me wrong... do as the tas guys do and try flying some other planes.... try flying those in the middle ground instead of the top 5%.... try actually fighting it out.
certainly you have learned to game the game well and you have developed the skills needed to cover each other and further reduce the risk but... I don't think the rest of us are impressed.... even by the major. your particular brand of dodgeball must be getting old even to you.
general lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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dodgeball.. now THAT took skill ! :eek:
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yep.... dodgeball...bet they don't even allow that in school these days.
even back then... there were throwers that thought they were the skilled ones.
lazs
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Isn't that a drag!!?? not having dodgeball.. it's .. un-american!
roflmao.. too true!
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Lazs.. if you think for one second I am going to change the way I play so you will like me, you are sorely mistaken.
Hmm.. from the way you have been talking it up with the 13th these days it sounds to me you like to play dodge balls. You probably get hit on the chin a lot don't you?
If it were possible to go to an enemy field (lugging lots of bombs and rockets), attack it, shoot down a bunch of fighters, bombers and vehicles, and then have a chance to get home in that same plane, I would probably do it. My whole probelm with that is the simple fact that every plane you shoot down can instantly respawn and come back at you. Basically, no matter how good you are, eventually you are going to run out of fuel or ammo and probably wind up being shot down by the same guy you already killed 3 times in that sortie.
If AH is changed to a point where a player can't insta-spawn again and again the moment he is killed, then I would consider it. Until that day, I'll fly my Mustang and be able to get home when I want to.
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I don't care what the scores are. The only person I compete against is me. The trouble is, I'm loosing :D
I don't care what everyone elses score is cuz ur all better than me anyways. If I look at other peoples scores I just get depressed.
I figger a 2 to 1 K/D is pretty good for me. If I worried about getting a high k/d, I wouldn't be flying the way I want to fly. I fly to have fun, if I have a crappy score or K/d, so be it.
Scoring system and ranking system is fine the way it is.
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Originally posted by Sachs
What is this rank thing?
Just another form of dick waving...
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I don't get too mad about people running, but last night was a different occasion. I've been playing with the F6F lately and having some fun with it. Put up some good kill/die sorties til last night upping from a vulched field. :)
But last night I was engaged with a P51, spit and 190 who were flying together. I was low and they were bouncing me. They wouldn't turn for anything. Maybe one turn then here comes the pony. I was killed 2-3 times by them in the F6F. I just kept coming back for more though.
Well finally got tired of that and rolled the 109G10 outa the barn. I caught up with the pony and he of course, nosed down to the deck to run. This guy had gotten 3 oppurtunistic kills on me and it was time for him to pay. ;) He got about 2.0 away from me, but I kept pursuing. He was straight and level on the water running for home. No other planes for at least a sector. He wouldn't turn for nothing. He WEP's out after a few minutes and I begin to slowly rope him in. :) 1.2.....1.1...... then he starts pulling away a lil, then he WEP's out again, but my trusty Daimler Benz has plenty left....1.0..990..970.... My mouth's watering. Fuel is 25%, should be able to get him. 800 yds..700 yds..600 yds.. he starts to pull away. He's trying desperatley to WEP, but the ol merlin is getting hot. 500 yds...450 yds.. I start hitting him with machine gun fire, and he still won't turn. He tries some manuever as I'm 300 yds but it's too late, he augers in as I let him have several 30 mm cannon rounds. Now THAT was a satisfying sortie.
But anyway, there's a "runner" story I just had to share.
FWIW, I don't recall seeing midnight doing any running and the 412th are fun to fly with. Lazs is just a button pusher. Ignore him, he'll be yer pal then. :)
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that is definately satisfying and tasty HB.
Nothing better IMO that cathcing and punishing a 'runner'.
Took an F4u1c the other day... wow.. forgot how fast that thing can be.
Caught a lot of un-aware La7's.. mighty tasty
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Ok major... we agree that you fly a plane that is in the top 5% survivability wise... You fly only that and minimize your chances of getting hurt by flying with squaddies to help protect you from the occasional player who ups in another fast plane... you are gaming the game but it is fair and legal.
I simply don't want to hear you cry that you aren't being rewarded enough for such behavior...
you want to see more of your ilk and be rewarded for your style... I want to see less of your ilk and have you penalized for your style.
lazs
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Lazs... Obviously, you missed a few of my posts on this subject.
Here's a film I made.. note.. no squad mates... no friendlies at all for that matter.
http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj...isthistimid.zip
Heres another post I made yesterday
Originally posted by Midnight
I'll just have to live with K/T and figure out how to improve my numbers
And then another
Originally posted by Midnight
If I think about it really hard.... :confused:
You're right. I really don't care about rank that much in the MA. The conditions to get a lot of kills don't come easy. Some days, like Sunday night 10/13/2002 I couldn't be killed and was shooting everything down. This morning, I was having troubles even getting in firing position and was shot down twice for only 3 kills.
Whatever it is, I don't know. So I guess I just won't worry about it anymore until 1.11.
And why do you put it that I want the others penalized? From what I've been reading, those other people don't care about rank anyway. So how could changing socring effect them? Hell, by the own admission of some, they didn't even know there was a score.
I have decided that the K/T rank won't change the way I like to play because it has nothing to do with actually surviving an engagement.
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Hblair, you shot that Pony in the BACK?? Admittedly a running coward deserves to be shot, but more importantly a running coward needs to be berated and riciduled on Channel One for an hour or until you run out of beer, whichever comes first. You were wrong to back shoot him, but since he's in a Pony that proves he's a chicken. Plus he wouldn't turn around and fight like a man. Sounds like a Euro Chicken to me.
I'm amazed that backshooting is so exceptable to you guys. I even saw this chicken way to fly encouraged by trainers in the Training Arena! Up to now I've been reluctant to say much about this dispicible cowardly behavior because it's so widespread and I fly naked, which means my non-flying hand has to hold onto my massively huge testicles. But I'm going to wear a jock strap so I can type with my free hand while I fly, and if anyone backshoots me I will rant and rave and challenge the back shooter to meet me in Modesto at a biker bar for a fistfight. The name of this Sim is ACES high, not CHICKENS high. rutabagas.
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bla ..bla... bla.... fly like a man....bla....bla...ridicule the runner....macho...being timid pilote...bla...bla...bla....
Having to show what a man you are flying AH its pathologycal;) How can you say that if you are a real man you fight "face to face". The purpouse of fighting is to gain enemy's six, not to shot him in the eyes. (that's Pat Garret and Billy the Kid times)
:rolleyes:
IMHO AH is a simulation, not only a game; some of us like to think and act as if they were in a real situation, and you know, I hope, that in WWII furballs were unknown, that a real pilot had only one life, that he had to take care of his plane.
If you fly with the intent of trying to recreate this situation you think you are a "timid player"??
When you have ended your attack, and you are low, maybe near to winchester, and bingo and you are chased you fly home if you can, sure ;)
Thats not being "a man"???
Ridiculous, :D
If you play AH like a WWII fight simulation this is "smart flying", like it is gaining altitude before fighting.
You say "gaming the game", IMHO ditching to reup more faster to join again a furball (and to improve K/T)is really "gaming the game".
Anyway if someone likes to play AH just like a "shoot at all no matter if I die, I dont care for upping and landing " its Ok , free to use his 15$ the way he likes.
But ,please ,dont whine about cowardice and what so other .....be serius if you can;)
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if everyone flew smart there would be no fights.
lazs