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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on October 13, 2002, 12:32:12 PM

Title: American beer.
Post by: beet1e on October 13, 2002, 12:32:12 PM
Before I can get onto that, I have to mention some other beers. I started drinking beer in Britain in the 1970s. At the time, many pubs had got rid of traditional draught beers and started serving beer from kegs – ease of maintenance, no wastage. Gawd, it pains me to recall that I once spent good money on pints of Double Diamond. :(:(  But then the Campaign For Real Ale (CAMRA) became active, and began educating the beer drinking public in the error of their ways. We should not be drinking these pressurised beers that are produced to make life easy for the landlord. We should be pressing for our right to drink REAL ALE, brewed by traditional means and served in barrels – no chemicals, no funny processes (pasteurisation is fine for milk but not for beer) and no carbon dioxide pressure, if you please. Well they had a good point. English beers had become weak since WW1. Before WW1, beers had a strength of around 10% alcohol. But the government needed sober workers to work the munitions factories, so beer was weakened, and licensing laws were introduced to control the hours of availability. The CO2 pressurisation came as a technological “advance”. But shoving  CO2 into beer is bad! It reacts with the water to produce carbonic acid, and that’s one of the components that can cause a headache. I weaned myself off the pressurised crap, and started drinking real ale in the 1970s. Once I’d learned to appreciate the real thing, there was no turning back. Real ale is not pressurised, but is “lifted” to the tap by means of a beer engine or handpump. This engine is often assisted by air pressure, but that pressure is behind the piston and not in the beer.

But then America beckoned, and I knew I was going to have to give up proper beer. Gawd, I thought I might as well sign the pledge. All the beer was in tins, all of it weak and fizzy and cold! – a completely different drink from the real ales at home. I was fascinated by American beer advertising. I remember some of the slogans. The other very surprising trait about American beer advertising was that adverts were never allowed to show the act of imbibing! :rolleyes: They could show a beer being poured, they could show people toasting, but they were not allowed to show anyone in the act of actually drinking it. That’s crazy. That’s like advertising a car, and showing the driver getting in and starting the engine, but not showing the car being driven. OK, I could understand the reasoning if we were talking about a condom advert. That’s right – some countries have condom ads on TV, but I won’t digress...

Many years later, I went to Antwerp, Belgium with an American friend. Belgium is the beer capital of mainland Europe. Some pubs have hundreds of beers to choose from. Some of those beers, like the Trappist beers consumed by monks, are incredibly strong – in excess of 12%! Personally, I don’t like the taste of a beer if it’s more than about 5%. The Belgians also have fruit beers – strawberry, lemon, cherry, peach, blackcurrant etc. – around 3%, and form the beer equivalent of a sorbet between courses, to cleanse the palette. Well, we talked a lot about beer that weekend, and my American friend began telling me about the Microbreweries that were springing up all over the US. I wanted to know why this was happening, and he explained that America had finally realised that its beer was crap (stuff like Blatz, Splitz etc.), and had begun brewing beer at small breweries using proper brewing methods. I was a bit sceptical at first, but later on when I was on business in Denver, I went along with that same friend to the Chop House – opposite Coors Field. And I tried a couple of the draught(draft) beers out of the 14 available, produced right there down in the basement brewery. And guess what? They were very good! They were not quite like English ales, but were a big step up from what went before.

Now I am pinning a lot of hopes on American microbreweries. And that’s because England has gone full circle. The 20-somethings have fallen prey to the advertising media, and have gone away from real ales in favour of bottled Bud, and lager lout beers like Tennants strong lager. There’s a lot of rubbish on sale in British pubs these days. :( But, as was pointed out to me many years ago, whatever happens in America happens in Britain a few years later. So I live in hope that if the current crop of techno beers displaces our remaining real ales and the breweries producing them, we might see a resurgence in the form of Microbreweries like the one at the Chop House.
Title: American beer.
Post by: XNachoX on October 13, 2002, 12:54:30 PM
Thanks for yet another random essay on why Americans, and this time our beer, suck. ;)
Title: American beer.
Post by: Cobra on October 13, 2002, 01:26:52 PM
Uhmmmm.....if everything American is sooo bad, why is it sooo often imitated?

Talk amongst yourselves.

Cobra
Title: American beer.
Post by: john9001 on October 13, 2002, 01:27:20 PM
i thought real beer came in bottles ?
Title: American beer.
Post by: beet1e on October 13, 2002, 02:30:41 PM
Quote
Thanks for yet another random essay on why Americans, and this time our beer, suck.
Did you read to the end? There was a happy ending. :)
Title: American beer.
Post by: Creamo on October 13, 2002, 02:50:39 PM
Xnacho pry made it to the title, maybe even a few sentences like me.

Damn if I ain't thirsty though. I think I'll have a beer.
Title: American beer.
Post by: straffo on October 13, 2002, 03:37:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
Uhmmmm.....if everything American is sooo bad, why is it sooo often imitated?

Talk amongst yourselves.

Cobra


I've heard that all tentatives to clone any american beer produced tons of lemonade instead :p

( I won't say piss ,I'm not PC :D)
Title: American beer.
Post by: beet1e on October 13, 2002, 04:53:24 PM
Creamo!  LOL - I almost said "I bet Creamo drinks Bud". Would I be right?
Title: American beer.
Post by: NUKE on October 13, 2002, 04:53:36 PM
I'm telling you, Beet1e is transfixed by Americans and he wishes he could be one of us.
Title: American beer.
Post by: NUKE on October 13, 2002, 05:04:55 PM
All of Beet1e's stories have a familiar structure.

1. "When I was in America 50 years ago, yap yap yap"
2. "I went back to England, blah blah blah"
3. "I recently visited a friend in the USA, yadda yadda yadda"
Title: American beer.
Post by: gatso on October 13, 2002, 05:07:46 PM
Beet1e mate your opinion of the youth of the UK is dissapointing. I am both a 20something, a real ale drinker and a member of CAMRA. Most of my circle of drinking chums is also of the real ale drinking variety although we have yet to perfect the beer belly and have so far resisted the urge to don cardigans and drink only out of our own pewter tankards.  ;)

I actually think the state of the micro-brewery in the UK is stronger than ever.  Having just attended the St Albans beer festival (The Garibaldi in St Albans was were CAMRA was formed) I can say that there are a great deal of new and very interesting beers out there. Some chains of pubs are also twigging that maybe it might be beneficial to stock real beer and learn actually how to serve it properly. (ALWAYS ask for the plastic 'sparkler' they put on the end of the pump to be taken off. It raises the pressure the beer comes out and takes all the natural gas out of the beer, kills it dead)

I'd like to add something from the original commentry though:

Any beer with the word 'light' in the title should be consigned back to the hell from which it was spawned.

Gatso
Title: American beer.
Post by: Dinger on October 13, 2002, 05:25:22 PM
Uh. Yeah, American microbreweries are doing quite well, thank you.  After all, the mainstream beer is so bad, you gotta have something halfway decent lying around.

Oh and after the pub closes, try not to post on the UBB.  It happens to me too.
Title: American beer.
Post by: funkedup on October 13, 2002, 05:32:39 PM
Just Say No to Boozeonics.
Title: American beer.
Post by: john9001 on October 13, 2002, 05:47:22 PM
actualy i prefer a irish cable knit pull over rather than a cardigan
Title: Re: American beer.
Post by: Staga on October 13, 2002, 06:35:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e

Some of those beers, like the Trappist beers consumed by monks, are incredibly strong – in excess of 12%! Personally, I don’t like the taste of a beer if it’s more than about 5%. The Belgians also have fruit beers – strawberry, lemon, cherry, peach, blackcurrant etc. – around 3%, and form the beer equivalent of a sorbet between courses, to cleanse the palette.


If you haven't drink "Chimay" you haven't drink a good beer. Very strong, from 9-11%, but same time smooth as silk.
Costs more than red wine thought...

About those beers flavored with fruits etc... I'd rather drink juice.
Title: American beer.
Post by: Saintaw on October 13, 2002, 07:04:36 PM
Belgian beers rule, point.
Title: American beer.
Post by: Krusher on October 13, 2002, 07:16:22 PM
My favorites
Domestic Rolling Rock and Michelob Dark
Imported beer  Heineken and Corona
Micro brewer  Samuel Adams

But why drink any of them if a decent scotch like Glenfiddich is around :)
Title: American beer.
Post by: Cobra on October 13, 2002, 07:23:04 PM
LOL Straffo!!


And agree with Saw!  Duval, Trapists....and many more I can't remember...

Cobra
Title: American beer.
Post by: Furious on October 13, 2002, 07:24:33 PM
as Monty Python once said:

"American beer is like making love in a canoe, its f@#$ing close to water."


F.
Title: American beer.
Post by: ra on October 13, 2002, 08:00:10 PM
If you beer connaisseurs were really serious you'd brew your own.  Why be at the mercy of corporate swill or trendy microbreweries?
Title: American beer.
Post by: Creamo on October 13, 2002, 08:44:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Creamo!  LOL - I almost said "I bet Creamo drinks Bud". Would I be right?


Your right! It's so superduper tarderiffic majic 8 ball type wacky fortune telling "ging,ging" goofyness! Wow!

No.

Cheap Vodka. In quantity, please.
Title: American beer.
Post by: loser on October 13, 2002, 09:29:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by XNachoX
Thanks for yet another random essay on why Americans, and this time our beer, suck. ;)



but nacho, you wont know for sure for about another 8 years if he is telling the truth!



:D
Title: American beer.
Post by: SLCR on October 14, 2002, 01:06:13 AM
If you want to try out Microbrews head to Portland, Oregon.  We are famous not only for our rain but also for our many brewries and strip clubs! Ummmmmmmmmm beer and boobies!


-Slicer
Title: American beer.
Post by: Sandman on October 14, 2002, 01:42:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
My favorites
Domestic Rolling Rock and Michelob Dark
Imported beer  Heineken and Corona
Micro brewer  Samuel Adams

But why drink any of them if a decent scotch like Glenfiddich is around :)


I'm not really into scotch, but... Glenfiddich is rather tasty. :)

Still... I'd rather drink Cazadores Reposado. :)

Beer... maybe with dinner and then it's gotta be Sam Adams...
Title: American beer.
Post by: straffo on October 14, 2002, 01:44:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Belgian beers rule, point.


there is not precedent ... but I must say that saw is right (for once :p)
Title: American beer.
Post by: beet1e on October 14, 2002, 02:35:24 AM
NUKE - LOL!  
Quote
All of Beet1e's stories have a familiar structure.

1. "When I was in America 50 years ago, yap yap yap"
2. "I went back to England, blah blah blah"
3. "I recently visited a friend in the USA, yadda yadda yadda"
50 years ago, I was no more than a glint in the milkman's eye. And not all my stories are about America. One was about Venice-Italy, but clearly some people didn't read past the word Venice, and thought I might be talking about Venice,CA. ;)

Gatso!  Your news has made my day. Really. I am hugely encouraged by what you said. By the way, you and I seem to be following each other around! We grow up two streets apart, then we both go to Herts for a bit. I was living in St. Albans when I joined CAMRA. My local was the Jolly Sailor, which served Charles Wells - Eagle and Fargo. I used to drink Eagle. I even served at the 1977 CAMRA beer festival at Hatfield. In the Birstall days, I used to drink at the White Horse, but that went down the pan when the landlord left to enter the scrap metal business. I remember buying a round of 7 pints of Ansells Bitter there, and getting change out of £1. (14p a pint in those days) Lots more to say and questions to ask, but can you email me directly? We can talk away from the BBS.
Title: American beer.
Post by: devious on October 14, 2002, 04:21:14 AM
Tested french beer in France, it sucked goat balls (and tasted like 'em)

Tested some British beers, almost no taste at all.

Irish stuff was drinkable.

Chimay, yes that's a fine beer.

But nothing beats the german über-Bier. German beer's the best, the best of the best beeing Alpirsbacher (http://www.alpirsbacher.de)

dtx's kills in AH, powered by Alpirsbacher Spezial :)
Title: American beer.
Post by: Manedew on October 14, 2002, 07:07:02 AM
http://www.magichat.net/  Here's my local micro brewery...

Chimay rocks .. once knew a guy named Chimay... he was fat.


(BTW samuel adams isn't a micro{you can buy it anywhere})
Title: American beer.
Post by: Duedel on October 14, 2002, 07:20:44 AM
Hi dtx :D besides our german ÜBER Bier (hehe) there's only one country that's able to brew respectable beer and that's Czechia with its great Pils tradition.

BTW i have to admit that there are really a few little very good american beer brewerys.
Title: American beer.
Post by: Krusher on October 14, 2002, 07:31:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


Still... I'd rather drink Cazadores Reposado. :)

 


Tequila used to be my drink of choice back in the early 80's when I still had live brian cells :)
Title: American beer.
Post by: Krusher on October 14, 2002, 07:34:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by devious

But nothing beats the german über-Bier. German beer's the best, the best of the best beeing Alpirsbacher (http://www.alpirsbacher.de)



I am riding my cycle down to the Wurstfest (octoberfest thingie) in New Braunfels in a couple of weeks. I expect to be drinking large amounts of german beer :D
Title: American beer.
Post by: straffo on October 14, 2002, 07:51:08 AM
All the other beer are for beginner :p

Trappiste rulez !
Title: American beer.
Post by: Monk on October 14, 2002, 07:57:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Belgian beers rule, point.


Muhahahaha:D
Title: American beer.
Post by: lazs2 on October 14, 2002, 08:36:48 AM
beer drinkers are incoherent, pot bellied, losers.   No idea why they feel the need to brag about it.
lazs
Title: American beer.
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 14, 2002, 09:07:39 AM
Blah blah blah whatever guys

there can be only one world ruler
Title: American beer.
Post by: Saintaw on October 14, 2002, 09:16:26 AM
Heineken... barf! ;)

For a population of 13 million, we have 1.350(*) Different brand of Local beers. Chimay being one of them (and FAR from the best!). A lot of these beers were Abbey beers (they also make very nice cheeze).

I'm sure most of you kow "Stella Artois", which is the piss we export, we no longer drink that wafull stuff here :)

A few you have to try if you come over. (In my personal order of preference)

Orval
Gaumaise
Kriek
Hoegarden
Vieux Temps
Trapiste
...


Oh yeah, Czecks beers are nice !(if a bit heavy)
Title: American beer.
Post by: straffo on October 14, 2002, 09:21:19 AM
Heineken ?

oh oh ...

it's the product I use to clean up the windshield of my car when coming back from  a  long trip :p
Title: American beer.
Post by: Monk on October 14, 2002, 09:21:45 AM
Mmmm.....Yum, Yum!http://www.schlenkerla.de
Title: American beer.
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 14, 2002, 09:23:44 AM
Hey for the 15 milion people who live here we got the world leading export beer brand.
:D

Offcourse we got more sorts off beer.

And i like a duvel at the time.

But when it's warm and feel like drink more than 1 beer
lager beer is the type and most drinked.

Where such a small country but achieved a lot :)
I think Budweiser is also a good beer
Also like Corona (mexican)

Not that i drink much beer i rather smoke a joint
:D
Title: American beer.
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 14, 2002, 09:27:03 AM
And in case nobody know belgians are formely dutch

So i'm proud on ya Saint

:D
Title: American beer.
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 14, 2002, 09:29:52 AM
Quote
it's the product I use to clean up the windshield of my car when coming back from a long trip


That's what i do with all the chateau de migraine coming from france

 ;)
Title: American beer.
Post by: beet1e on October 14, 2002, 09:32:19 AM
My favourite DUTCH beer is this one. Too bad they didn't have it at the WB Eurocon. :(
Title: American beer.
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 14, 2002, 09:36:10 AM
Was there 2 years ago u where there to?
u might have seen my beetle :)
Title: American beer.
Post by: Greese on October 14, 2002, 10:21:50 AM
http://www.deschutesbrewery.com
Title: American brews
Post by: -sudz- on October 14, 2002, 10:38:36 AM
Hey beetle, back to your original subject, American brews are on the rebound.  Note the word "rebound".  We were quite lucky in the US when, in the early 1900s, our brewing industry got a boost from the immigration of Europeans, including Germans, who brought their beer recipes with them.  Not that we were slouches before about beer, but it was more of a cottage industry.

American beer, if it can be called that being based on European recipes, was quite on par with anything in the world.  I know, in all my previous lives I was a beer conissuer.  But American beer suffered four devistating blows that we are only now overcoming:

1)  Popular backlash against anything German during WWI
2)  Prohibition soon put many of the smaller breweries out of business
3)  During WWII, the beer companies caterered more to women clientelle (the men were overseas) who wanted a lighter, less full-bodied beer
4)  The rampant capitalism during the 50s, 60s, and 70s led to cheaper industry processes for more profit (more rice, carbonation, tins).

We are now well on the way to producing world class beers that can compete with the venerable Belgian and German brews.  We still need the demand for barley grain that will make it more cost-effective to use instead of dry malt.  But at least the major breweries are seeing their profits go to microbrews and are responding in kind.

I don't know how it is in England, my last previous life over there was during the 1740s :), but I hope good beer is the rule and not the exception.

One last thing:

Quote
(pasteurisation is fine for milk but not for beer)


Milk pateurisation is good because milk contains a multitude of microbes and bacteria, not all of it healthy.  But beer should contain only one type of yeast, if brewed right, that isn't harmful and, when it dies, carries lots of vitamins with it down into the sediment.  By pateurising beer, you eliminate the vitamins and destroy the natural carbonation - forcing the addition of CO2 to regain the fizz.

-sudz
Title: American beer.
Post by: Ripsnort on October 14, 2002, 10:42:02 AM
Seattle Micro brews rule the world (Well, save Sudz brew!)
Title: American beer.
Post by: Octavius on October 14, 2002, 10:46:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by loser



but nacho, you wont know for sure for about another 8 years if he is telling the truth!



:D


waaaaaaHAHAHAHAHA!  zzzzzing!  :D
Title: American beer.
Post by: beet1e on October 14, 2002, 12:21:19 PM
Sudz - Excellent post. Thanks!  I never knew about the four factors...
Quote

1) Popular backlash against anything German during WWI
2) Prohibition soon put many of the smaller breweries out of business
3) During WWII, the beer companies caterered more to women clientelle (the men were overseas) who wanted a lighter, less full-bodied beer
4) The rampant capitalism during the 50s, 60s, and 70s led to cheaper industry processes for more profit (more rice, carbonation, tins).
But reading your post, that made perfect sense.

BUG_EAF - yes I was at Eurocon2000. It was late in the year and there was no Eurocon2001, but I went to Eurocon2002 and will go again to EuroCon2003.
Title: American beer.
Post by: Tumor on October 14, 2002, 12:35:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
My favorites
Domestic Rolling Rock and Michelob Dark
Imported beer  Heineken and Corona
Micro brewer  Samuel Adams

But why drink any of them if a decent scotch like Glenfiddich is around :)


Rolling Rock is awesome.... the only Beer I know of that really is a thirst quencher.  After a hot afternoon working outside, I can knock off a six of that stuff quick lol.
Title: American beer.
Post by: Saintaw on October 14, 2002, 12:53:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
And in case nobody know belgians are formely dutch

So i'm proud on ya Saint

:D


Bug, I'm going to A'dam now and then... you in the area ? :D


PS: We kicked ya out in 1756 or something if I remember well :o
Title: American beer.
Post by: Nifty on October 14, 2002, 02:34:06 PM
brew your own beer.  :)
Title: American beer.
Post by: krazyhorse on October 14, 2002, 02:43:44 PM
REAL MEN   drink MILWAUKEE'S BEST and live to tell about it