Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Sachs on October 13, 2002, 04:08:54 PM
-
Supporting chart shows 640 kmh on deck. Need someone fluent in german to translate.
-
It shows 576 and 612 km/h on the deck. I don't see 640 anywhere.
Anyways, Verm posted this chart like 3 years ago. Get with the program!!!
:D
-
crap posted wrong one, hold on ill repost it.
-
here it is
-
I think there is a long discussion about that one in here somewhere. I can't remember what the final conclusion was.
-
RgR Funked it right many discussions about this before.
There were different 190 D9 versions.
We seem to have number 4 on the chart. It's a 1900 HP 190 D9 with MW 50.
The faster curves are the 2100 HP versions. So it's very capeble of going faster but we seem to have the "medium" one.
-
In the Jg26 book by Caldwell it mentions the Dora had 2240hp with emergency power ouch!
Now It's weird the Ta152 is suppossed to have 2050 with MW50 yet in AH it accels like a fat man running a marathon in Arizona with 115 degree heat in a Winter Coat. :D
BTW here's a nice site with all dora speed charts:
http://jagdhund.homestead.com/DoraCharts.html
Here's that chart larger:
http://server3003.freeyellow.com/jagdhund/FW190D-9/D9speedGraphWeb.jpg
Note that the U/min is 3250 in AH it maxes out at 3050RPM in Dora and Ta152. I think we have number 4.
-
Hi Sachs,
>D9 deck speed is off?
I wouldn't say "off". Aces High merely models a 1900 HP Fw 190D-9, not a 2100 HP one. Asking for another (perked) D-9 version instead of demanding a correction might be a better way of getting that 2100 HP Dora ;-)
>Need someone fluent in german to translate.
"Sonder-Notl. mit A-Lader als Bodenmotor" means 'special war emergency power with A-type supercharger as low-level engine'. In other words, the aircraft in question used an injection system for power boosting, the Jumo 213A-type supercharger (opposed to the different Jumo 213E-type supercharger), and the engine was specially configured for high power at low level.
If there's something interesting with regard to the 1900 HP Fw 190D-9 in this graph, it's the comment that the speeds were achieved with ETC504 bomb rack. This bomb rack did cost 10 km/h (or more) o the top speed, so if the Aces High D-9 matches the figures of curve 4, it means it flies with the bomb rack attached. A "clean" aircraft would go a bit faster, of course.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
If so perk the plane !!
-
or make a Perk Dora 9 ;-D
-
That's not the expected reaction !!
:mad: ;)
-
Jeez,
If I was going to whine it would be about the A8 not the D9.
-
Both A5 and A8 porked.
-
Galland prefered flying 109's
maybe because FW's where just porked.
-
I wouldn't mind having the Dora perked if we got that deck speed and such. And no this isn't a whine F4UD**K. Posted a fact no whining so run away now. I hate thread hijackers with nothing good to say.
-
Hi F4UDOA,
>If I was going to whine it would be about the A8 not the D9.
Hm, I'd have thought you'd be the first to catch the analogy between the F4U's capped pylons and the Fw 190D-9's bomb rack :-)
Same affair, except that maybe the D-9's bomb rack was a bit more likely to removed when not needed.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
Sachs,
I think you lost something in the translation.
I mean if you look at the numbers you posted the A-8 is much further from the posted stats than the D-9 which is already faster than almost everything in the MA.
HoHun,
It is funny how some birds get bomb racks and pylons when others get no drag penalty at all. I need to translate that stuff so I can understand condition, loading Wep, etc.
-
I'd like to see the higher power version of a number of the a/c in the game (for perk points where appropriate - yes Funked you can dream of a LF MK.IX running at +25lbs boost on 150 octane). A 2100 hp Dora would certainly put the wind up the Pony dweebs!
I'd like to see the Ta152 debate resolved one way or another first though (hoping this doesn't hijack the thread).
-
F4U, maybe I didn't translate it as well. I started this thread for the Dora, I could start another one for the A8 as well. I just find it odd that we can throw so much data out and nothing is said or done about fixing the things that have been stated. If the dora were to be given the deck speed of near 400 then I would be the first one to say Perk it. The 152 has not been resolved, the 190 F8 has not been resolved. The deck speed for the 190A5 has not been resolved. We keep giving data and nothing is said or done. Yet if we whine about an allied plane then it gets changed no questions asked. I agreed the 38 seemed rather weak in structure damage, and it was changed. I am just astonished that we keep giving data and nothing is said I know I keep repeating this but what does it say?
I remember Pyro saying he would try and add the rockets for the 190 F8, well that is a start but that was "least 4-5, pre 1.09" months ago and I know a ton of posts have been made in reference to the F8. The 190F8 post I made will be the last post on it until "If ever" it is fixed. I have more data on the F8 but it is pointless to post when nothing is done. Guess what it would take would be a tack hammer to drive it home that we would like to see changes instead of adding new stuff that takes 5-6 patches to get it to work. Just my .02 cents
-
Wellll.... they *were* resolved... the answer was just no.
-
Yet if we whine about an allied plane then it gets changed no questions asked.
:rolleyes:
-
Its called frustration funked. I let it slip. :cool: I would jus tlike to know what is oging on if anything is. Is the crusade pointless?
-
Perhaps all LW enthusiasts (i.e. all LW squadies and people who are generally fond of LW planes) should dive into their books and try to figure this out. Test the flight characteristics of the LW planes in the game, and then send a POLITE and DOCUMENTED report to HTC with possible solutions? If enough people are genuinely unhappy with the way LW planes are portrayed in the game, HTC should do something about it. If not … they surly are admitting to being biased toward the LW planes.
Let’s make this like a petition. Any LW “old hands” out there that can take the lead on this? :)
-
GScholz: there have been numerous threads on the following problems on LW planes in AH
1. Fw-190 F-8 doesn't have proper loadout options
2. Ta-152 H-1 is really a Ta-152 H-0 (with a weaker engine) and the heavier weight of the H-1 model
3. Fw-190's in general take 2x as long to cool down as their other planes
4. There isn't any LW heavy bomber modelled (He-177 A-5) or Mosquito equivalent (Me-410 B-1)!!!
#1 has been noticed from the very first time the F-8 was introduced
#2 has been pointed out by Wilbus about a month ago
#3 was pointed out by Wilbus three weeks ago
#4 has existed since the very inception of AH! (there was an attempt to remedy this problem when HTC introduced the Ju-88 A-4, a mediocre plane at best)
-
#3 was actually pointed out by Hazed ;)
-
Posting threads is all good and nice, but I was suggesting more of an “e-mail campaign” to show HTC our numbers. “Signed”, polite and documented e-mails from numerous people could make HTC change their mind. Especially if the campaign shows that a significant percentage of HTC’s customers are unhappy with the LW planes.
-
Yeah all you luftweenies send lotsa emails to HT, i'm sure he'll love that!:D
-
Originally posted by thrila
Yeah all you luftweenies send lotsa emails to HT, i'm sure he'll love that!:D
:D
They read the threads here GScholz so even I'm a LW-Guy i wouldnt like to bomb HT with mails about things that are posted in threads. There are many other things that have to be done and somtimes somehow most points will be altered to our satisfaction.
-
Montezuma is on vacation ? ;)
-
Just a friendly suggestion. Didn't mean to be an prettythang.
-
Wilbus, whats wrong with the A8?
-
Originally posted by Hristo
Montezuma is on vacation ? ;)
I was but I'm back!
Most D9s were poorly built and used inferior materials. Many of them in the field couldn't hit the factory numbers, so in this case selective realism works in the LW's favor.
It looks like Luftwhiner credibility has hit a new low with HTC. Go ahead and spam them to see if it can get any worse :)
-
Originally posted by Montezuma
Most D9s were poorly built and used inferior materials. Many of them in the field couldn't hit the factory numbers, so in this case selective realism works in the LW's favor.
Oddly enough, he's got a point here. It isn't an entirely valid one unless it is modelled for everything that didn't perform 'to spec' though. For instance, the N1K2 was also poorly built using inferior materials. I've got no information on that plane, so I've got no idea whether or not the AH specs match up with the 'factory' specs for that particular plane. Another instance is gun jams- some guns and gun installations were more prone to jamming than others. Not modelled here.
-
Originally posted by Montezuma
Most D9s were poorly built and used inferior materials.
And, of course, I suppose u can back up that with documents, right? So, 6 0 0 out of the 7 0 0 Doras were poorly built with failing engines, paper wings and wood-made guns ...
-
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
And, of course, I suppose u can back up that with documents, right? So, 6 0 0 out of the 7 0 0 Doras were poorly built with failing engines, paper wings and wood-made guns ...
700 is the optimistic luftwhiner estimate of Dora production.
Did you see the pictures on AGW of the 190D being restored in Arizona that has wooden flaps? Why do you think they would do that, because they thought wood was better?
If you would like to read something other than your fan boy coloring books, I would suggest you find copies of the US post-war interrogations of Luftwaffe and RLM officials. They agree that the quality of German planes was bad starting in late 1944.
-
Montezuma, I sincerely think u are not worth the reply. You are talking about the last surviving Doras in 1945, one of them being capured and with ,"supposedly", poor wood parts. That doesnt mean that plane was built as it was found by the allies. Ground crews substituted damaged parts with whatever they can find.
And for your information, La7 is almost a tree (poor wooden plane with even wooden ailerons).
In any case, my, again supposedly, coloured books are better than your transparent and vapour-made ones.
-
The said Arizona 190D is a -13, bit later than the AH D9 that isn't even using later D9 engine etc.
-
Montezuma my little hut monkey the Arizona Dora was a D13 that was made in January-Feb 1945 that would be why it has "lower grade materials" compared to the other Dora the quality of the Late '44 doras was not inferiror the Germans maintained Good quality depsite the constant Allied bombing,your mind is so much clouded in toejam , can't even pick up a little book and read,except biased accounts. NO, it's not optimistic my Little Allied Swhiner it's a fact just look at the Units that had the D-9 and you will get the number,of course many things are clouded hence the last months was very much chaotic for the Germans and if you're completely ill centered on allied aircraft just because X particular author furthers the myths down from the Allied POV from by which you get your assumptions and theirs as the truth which is not.
BTW the D-13 didn't use the Jumo -213A it used the Jumo 213F is was a lo altitude Jabo version of the Dora with a speed very close to the Tempest. second thing like it has been told there are different versions of the Dora the first one didn't have any type of injection systems the first ones that reached the front to JG54 and Jg26 but from 1945 they had standard both MW50 and Gm1 in the same Jumo213A engine instalation. :D
-
Nazi boy, maybe you should read what your friend Albert Speer had to say about the quality of German aircraft in late 1944.
-
Many of them in the field couldn't hit the factory numbers, so in this case selective realism works in the LW's favor.
Funny, there is a RAF report about the "poor" quality of spitfires.
The RAF leaders were pretty pissed when they noticed that the production planes were up to 40mph slower than the manufactures data.
Even after removing some parts and reduce the overall drag, none of the tested productions Spits hit the factory data.
The PRO has the report, but i don't know the document number.
Also there exist german test of captured allied planes, and none of the tested planes matched the numbers given in the literature.
(I can't get a copy of that, cause publishing those things is restriceted)
But i am sure the test data of allied planes in germany are pure propaganda, while all RAE comparison tests are 100% accurate and true right?
For all planes AH works in favour to the factory data and not the actualy production planes.
-
The PRO has the report, but i don't know the document number.
Also there exist german test of captured allied planes, and none of the tested planes matched the numbers given in the literature.
(I can't get a copy of that, cause publishing those things is restriceted)
Naudet, could you tell me how to get hold of this? Can I buy it somewhere?
-
all the 190 the french were expecting to use at the end of the war (to wait a new local fighter) were so dangerously build that they were scrapped fast....
same for the ju88
-
hmmm montezuma , if you call any Lw flyer nazi whatewer crap just come here in EU , you will see, i will ruin you, and will broke up your nose !!!!:mad:
in EU call some 1 NAZI s very expensive !
-
Originally posted by minus
hmmm montezuma , if you call any Lw flyer nazi whatewer crap just come here in EU , you will see, i will ruin you, and will broke up your nose !!!!:mad:
in EU call some 1 NAZI s very expensive !
I *think* that is a threat, but I am unsure.
-
Originally posted by Montezuma
Nazi boy, maybe you should read what your friend Albert Speer had to say about the quality of German aircraft in late 1944.
*PLONK*
-
And the thruth ammo.
-
Hey I'm not claiming they were the best I'm saying that compared to other aircraft of the time they sure had some problems but those problems were fixed in the field by the mechanics so by the time they reached operational status and the aircraft put into service they weren't problem proof but they were less prone to give problems.
Yes Montezuma is a Hut monkey ehehehehe, how cute he called me Nazi boy? squeeek for me little hut monkey squeeek for me :D :D :D :D Don't worry Montezuma is under control.
-
All I know is when minus gets pissed it makes for great reading.
-
He has every right to be pissed. This fourm is for the discussion of planes. Agjv though that the D-9 had a problem, and he was proven wrong. Then, Mongerka (aka montezuma) comes in calling people nazis. In some countrys, thats the worst thing you can call someone, and they will take offensive.
IMO Montezuma should be banned for this crap. Personal attacks without any justification are totally unacceptable.
-
For all planes AH works in favour to the factory data and not the actualy production planes.
That's not correct. AH conforms pretty closely to service (customer) data for USAAF, VVS, and RAF aircraft.
-
I don't remember being proven wrong just that we have a different version that is the third one on the chart :D Montewhatever his name well he just knows how to ruin a thread. Nuff said just ignore him and he will go away.
-
Originally posted by minus
hmmm montezuma , if you call any Lw flyer nazi whatewer crap just come here in EU , you will see, i will ruin you, and will broke up your nose !!!!:mad:
LOL, threat of violence! So I will respond to this one.
I have studied the Nazis and I hate them, piss on their graves. I don't make that accusation lightly and without evidence.
A quick search of this BBS will reveal that Glasses is a Nazi-loving revisionist kook. He calls American pilots 'murderous bastards' and is confused about which side in the war was right.
HTC isn't going to ban me, I'm not an idiot like Hortland. No one is going to sue me or hit me. The only thing you can do is squelch me if the truth makes you uncomfortable.
-
Montezuma my remarks were not made at saying the Germans were all good my remarks were done to point out that both sides did terrible things and the Americans your side and mine did many terrible things during the war now that they try to excuse them or make up for those things with X reason while calling the other side just plain evil is stupid like being the narrow minded hut monkey I see that you are, but anyhow that's how you play it your hatred is so deep into anything not from your side, that you cannot see otherwise and separate them from each other.
That's why in your disturbed little eyes I'm a Nazi because I go against the establishment of lies. But anyhow I'll let you with your fantasy, eat insects I heard they're high in protein so perhaps one day your brain will evolve into a homo-sapien.
-
WIlbus, the report about the spitfires can be found in the PRO, sorry but i both don't have the webaddress at hand nor the document number for the report.
And the german test of allied planes can be found deep in the archives of Freiburg. You would have to go personally to Freiburg and search yourself the huge amounts of documents to get a copy of it.
-
And the german test of allied planes can be found deep in the archives of Freiburg. You would have to go personally to Freiburg and search yourself the huge amounts of documents to get a copy of it.
Ok, will do that when I get time and some money :)
-
Montezum: I can't find your email normaly would send this in private. Personal attacks like this
Glasses is a Nazi-loving revisionist kook
Are not acceptable.
HiTech
-
Originally posted by minus
in EU call some 1 NAZI s very expensive !
Glad I don't live there.
-
Why does every thread about 190 end up with someone calling people Nazis ?
Let's start a Nazi accusation thread and end up discussing 190 deck speed in the end, that'd be a good idea ;)
-
eat insects I heard they're high in protein so perhaps one day your brain will evolve into a homo-sapien
That was funny :D :D