Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Sachs on October 14, 2002, 03:56:55 PM

Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Sachs on October 14, 2002, 03:56:55 PM
Ok this will be the last time I post on the 190F8.  There is given facts and countless documents out there verifying the facts on this plane.  Included is an image the 190F8's that served in Czeck service.  This was there loadouts and you can take it for what it is worth.  This has been beat down so many times, I would like to see something added as it stands now the plane is rather useless.  It was the true dedicate Jabo, right now the jabo is the 110 G2, we wanted the F8 and got it, but with limited armament options.  If you look at the Allied counterparts they are armed to the teeth.  Please Pyro do something about this.  I am not asking for much just some of the weapons it Carried.  Lil snip from a book.

On 3 March 1945, 9./S.G.77 was ordered to re-equip its FW 190F-8s with Panzerblitz 80mm anti-tank rockets [3]. These weapons, adapted from the air-to-air R4M, were carried under the outboard wings. Additionally, a bomb could be carried on the underfuselage rack, giving a single FW 190 powerful ground-attack capabilities

Is this our F8?  Nope
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: funkedup on October 14, 2002, 04:06:19 PM
Very nice.  I'd like to see those exact F-8 and F-8/U1 loadouts in the game.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: hazed- on October 14, 2002, 04:08:32 PM
nice pic

especially like the various loadouts ie 2x250 +DT and the 8x 50kg and that lovely 1000kg/1800kg egg!

ahhh it would be great to have them but we have been asking an awful long time for them.I think the 110G2 was HTC's gift to the LW fans as a jabo platform and what a jabo plane it is.it is a shame the 190f8 has no real defined differences(few extra 50kgs ) after going to the trouble of modeling it though.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: funkedup on October 14, 2002, 04:08:50 PM
Quote
If you look at the Allied counterparts they are armed to the teeth.


A lot of this is because most the Allied fighters are larger planes than the 190, with greater load carrying capacity.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Glasses on October 14, 2002, 04:43:22 PM
Yeah Funked but it doesn't make sense if the 190F8 could carry that loadout then why it isn't allowed in AH. Doesn't have to o as to why the allie's planes carry more it has to do that the LW counterpart is not armed with what it had.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Sancho on October 14, 2002, 04:54:51 PM
what are the following?

Wfr Gr 28/32
Pzschr (panzerschrek?)
Pb 1,2
Er 4+4x50 (something + 4 50kg bombs?)
Pd 8,8cm

Would be nice to see some more armament options on the 190F... heck an 1800kg bomb would be awesome.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: funkedup on October 14, 2002, 05:03:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Glasses
Yeah Funked but it doesn't make sense if the 190F8 could carry that loadout then why it isn't allowed in AH. Doesn't have to o as to why the allie's planes carry more it has to do that the LW counterpart is not armed with what it had.


There are Allied planes missing loadouts too.  Let's not hijack this.  I want to see the loadouts on that chart in AH.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: oboe on October 14, 2002, 05:10:04 PM
I would like to see these loadouts added too.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Glasses on October 14, 2002, 05:44:05 PM
Good funkey ;)
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: ra on October 14, 2002, 06:17:08 PM
Drawings don't mean squat.  I'd rather see a translation of the text that came with this chart.

ra
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Imp on October 14, 2002, 06:19:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sancho
what are the following?

Wfr Gr 28/32
Pzschr (panzerschrek?)
Pb 1,2
Er 4+4x50 (something + 4 50kg bombs?)
Pd 8,8cm

Would be nice to see some more armament options on the 190F... heck an 1800kg bomb would be awesome.


Er 4+4x50 (something + 4 50kg bombs?) I think its the name of the bomb rack for 4 50KG bombs.

Pb 1,2: Panzerblitz rockets AT version of the R4M I believe.


Wfr Gr 28/32: 28cm and 32cm rockets it seems???

Pzschr (panzerschrek?): I think they used that but it had limited effectiveness.

Pd 8,8cm: I dont have a clue :(
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Soviet on October 14, 2002, 06:39:12 PM
Watch as allied fans come to discredit this information, sigh we'll never see the correct loadouts for the F-8
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 14, 2002, 06:40:54 PM
NP lufties

but i want my 2 X 2000lbs babys on the lightning also
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Wilbus on October 14, 2002, 06:44:57 PM
Pd 8,8cm was probarly cannons firing downwards, not sure though.

Panzerblitz rockets were used in two version, later version had lower drag racks.

Quote
A lot of this is because most the Allied fighters are larger planes than the 190, with greater load carrying capacity.


Not quite true Funked. The 190 F8 and some G versions could carry the 1800kg egg (3996 lbs), even the P47 won't match that. That's the same weight as an A20 carries. P38 would be able to carry the same too.

I want the R4M rockets especially.

AGJ, could you send me that PDF document? Please :)

rasmus@avita.se
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: funkedup on October 14, 2002, 06:47:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Soviet
Watch as allied fans come to discredit this information, sigh we'll never see the correct loadouts for the F-8


I'll ignore this WHINE.  

Add more loadouts to the F-8!
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: funkedup on October 14, 2002, 06:51:29 PM
Quote
Drawings don't mean squat.


Engineering drawings are a valuable source for those who wish to model aircraft in a game.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Karnak on October 14, 2002, 07:01:13 PM
I'd love to see more loadouts added for the Fw190F-8.  My sources give it many interesting loadouts that it lacks in AH.

I recall Pyro stating that they'd like to do more loadouts for the 190F-8, but that it would require more assets.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Sachs on October 14, 2002, 08:11:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
Pd 8,8cm was probarly cannons firing downwards, not sure though.

Panzerblitz rockets were used in two version, later version had lower drag racks.
I want the R4M rockets especially.

AGJ, could you send me that PDF document? Please :)

rasmus@avita.se


PB 1,2 was the R4M I believe in racks of 6 or 12, the firing downwards rockets were tested on shermans and panthers. I have the supporting documents for that as well.  The Er 4+4 50kg was 8 50 Kg bombs on center fuselage along with 2 more 50 kg bombs on each wings.  Wfr Gr 28/32 were the Air to Air rockets we have in AH that were modified for ground attack.  They were horrible at hitting ground vehicles due to the tractory but were used effectively against troops, they were not timed fused but exploded on impact.  Wil I can cut and paste from teh documents, but an Old friend just sent me these documents and asked if I would distribute them.  If HTC needs them for confirmation I will ask if I can loan them ;) to him.  I am not at my home comp but I will translate what each rocket was on the F8 and some stats about them as well.  But the 1000kg and 1800 kg bomb is very interesting, if added would be ncie would open options for the Ju88 as well.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: DmdBT on October 14, 2002, 09:44:53 PM
<< tosses snowball down Hell's smokestack and watches.... >>

Lonz
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Shiva on October 14, 2002, 10:57:59 PM
Wfr Gr 28/32

The Werfer-Granate 28/32 was a 280mm rocket projectile carried singly or in pairs beneath each wing. This had been evolved from the Wfr.Gr. 21, a 210mm rocket (already modelled in AH for the A-8).

Pzschr

The Panzerschreck was an 88mm Wehrmacht rocket projectile, carried in sets of three under each wing. It had a maximum range to achieve effective penetration of about 100 meters.

Pb 1,2

The Panzerblitz 1 was a development of the Panzerschreck with a warhead twice as large, and which could be fired from a range of 200 meters. Eight Pb 1 rockets were carried under the wings in two jettisonable wooden crates, but the aircraft could not fire the rockets if it was flying faster than about 480 kph, which left it vulnerable to ground fire.

The Panzerblitz 2 was a modification of the 55mm R4M air-to-air rocket, containing a shaped-charge warhead and being launched from underwing racks holding either six or seven rockets.

Er 4+4x50

The Er 4 was a bomb adapter which would allow the ETC 250 fuselage rack to carry four 110-lb SC 50 bombs, which, with the two ETC 50 racks under each wing (standard on the F-8), allowed a total of 8 SC 50 bombs to be carried.

Pd 8,8cm

This one I can't find a reference to, unless (judging from the illustration) it's a quadruple mount for the Panzerblitz.

Incidentally, while the F-8/U-2 and F-8/U-3 were modified to be able to carry the 1,543-lb BT 700 and 3,098-lb BT 1400 (Bomben-Torpedo -- a bomb designed to be dropped at a shallow angle near an enemy ship, which would explode underneath the ship's hull), the SC 1800 was never carried by the F-8; the 2,205-lb SB 1000 and SC 1000 were the largest bombs carried in regular service, by G-series aircraft.

The SC 1800 was used in February and March of 1944 by specially-modified G-1s of NSG 20 for use against bridge targets. In order to carry the SC 1800, the G-1 required special tires and the removal of a large amount of standard hardware, including the 20mm cannon, and the aircraft required a 1,300 yard takeoff roll. On March 7, NSG 20 employed the SC 1800 in an attempt to take out the Remagen bridge.

There were experiments conducted with various other armament sets, including underwing gondolas each containing two 30mm Mk 103 cannon, underwing gondolas each containing three 15mm MG HF/15 cannon, an inverted installation of the SG 116 Zellendusche --  three 30mm Mk 103 cannon mounted in each wing to fire down at a 60° angle (the original installation, an anti-bomber weapon, firing up at a 60° angle), the SG 113A Förstersonde -- two 77mm recoilless cannon in each wing firing down, the firing being triggered by the magnetic field of a tank, the X 4 Ruhrstahl and X 7 Rotkäppchen guided missiles, and the BV 246 Hagelkorn glide bomb.
Title: hope this helps
Post by: Sachs on October 14, 2002, 11:24:01 PM
Listing for the rockets.
Title: more help coming along
Post by: Sachs on October 14, 2002, 11:25:06 PM
Here ya go
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Glasses on October 15, 2002, 12:39:48 AM
Goood AG Goood
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: straffo on October 15, 2002, 02:41:13 AM
I think that one the origin of the loadout limitation is due to the way we can select weapon....

Look at the Hangar how many clickables items can you put on the right side of the plane ?

More loadout yes but if they are selectable it would be better ;)

I bet that pyro selected representatives loadouts depending on MA/scenario needs and place availlable in the hangar
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Imp on October 15, 2002, 06:30:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I think that one the origin of the loadout limitation is due to the way we can select weapon....

Look at the Hangar how many clickables items can you put on the right side of the plane ?

More loadout yes but if they are selectable it would be better ;)

I bet that pyro selected representatives loadouts depending on MA/scenario needs and place availlable in the hangar


Replacing the 2 50Kg on each wing by a 250 Kg bomb would be hard I think Just as putting a 1000Kg under the fuselage wouldnt be hard.

But you then have to model the weigh and drag and all :(
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Duedel on October 15, 2002, 06:40:08 AM
I really want to see more loadout options too. Thx Sachs
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 15, 2002, 09:29:52 AM
Oh and anyone forgot the IL2 ?????
should have some more options to.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Wilbus on October 15, 2002, 09:40:21 AM
Yup bug.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: whgates3 on October 15, 2002, 02:47:18 PM
also Tiny Tim 2000 lbs rocket should be available for the TBM
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Kirin on October 16, 2002, 06:40:43 PM
190F8 --- IL2 --- hmmm...

OOOOH - it's coming in FB - now check the loadout-options for the 190A5 in IL2... only can imagine what we get for the F8

... oops, wrong forum!
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: hazed- on October 23, 2002, 04:25:14 PM
punt
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Wilbus on October 23, 2002, 06:43:08 PM
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Imp on October 23, 2002, 08:48:12 PM
BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: minus on October 24, 2002, 05:01:28 PM
Sahs may ihave this pdf ???? is it writen in Czech lang so i realy like to look in plzzzz ?
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Sachs on October 26, 2002, 11:06:16 PM
Minus, do to I got this from a friend I will have to ask him if I can send it out.  Right now the answer is no, but maybe he might lossen up some :)
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Scot on October 28, 2002, 06:16:00 AM
Good Stuff Sachs. I'll Give it a !
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: -ammo- on October 28, 2002, 07:26:43 AM
Is there a reference for the F-8 to carry Mk103 guin pods under the wing?
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: minus on October 28, 2002, 11:14:20 AM
bahhh , even from the smal fragment what i can read on the screanshot, can  discover many many new things, this document realy interese me can i ask your frend personaly ? maybe hi will change mind , looks like the frend have same origins like my, czech ;)
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on October 28, 2002, 12:22:46 PM
Fix the F8 whatever load out
Fix the TA152 whatever speed
Why does P47 compress before FWs, and Yaks, and...?
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Sachs on October 31, 2002, 04:50:59 PM
Puntski this one will not die!!!!!
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Wilbus on November 09, 2002, 05:12:41 AM
The P47 compress? ;)

Well, 190's hardly compessed either as far as tests were made. The RAF tests took the 190 A3 up to 580mph in a dive and they reported the controlls as "although slightly heavier they are still remarkably light", in 580 in AH they hardly work in 580mph TAS. Same thing for P47 and some other planes IMO, the FM just seems off IMO.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: Sachs on November 09, 2002, 11:59:03 AM
Wilbus this still won't add the 190F8 options until Pyro acknowledges this fact.  There are a lot fo things we want, but I would think he would add either the bombs or rockets for playability in the MA.  I take it up and fly it only because I hate seeing it not used that often.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: illo on November 10, 2002, 08:24:28 PM
Verkaaft's mei Gwand 'I foahr in himmel!
(Sell my clothes I'm going to heaven)

"Sell my clothes I'm off to heaven!" sounds better? :) Just another translaton of same.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: robsan on November 11, 2002, 08:29:56 AM
Fw190F-8 loadout?

Think big!

(http://www.go2war2.nl/luchtmacht/_organisatie/dui_kg-200/dui_mistel_2g.jpg)

:D
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: robsan on November 13, 2002, 08:35:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by -ammo-
Is there a reference for the F-8 to carry Mk103 guin pods under the wing?


Fw 190F-8/R3 - attack plane with two MK 103 30 mm cannons, similar to the A-5/U11 variant. Only two planes built.

Very extensive Focke Wulf Site (http://www.cropp.demon.co.uk/FW/FW190.HTM)
It lists all the loadout options for the F-8, plus detailed info on every(?) Plane designed by Focke Wulf
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: devious on November 19, 2002, 02:59:20 AM
bump.
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: frank3 on November 19, 2002, 12:03:31 PM
lol robsan! wtf is that????? some kind of 'little friend'  on a bomber to safe fuel or something?
Title: FW190 F8 loadout source attached
Post by: robsan on November 20, 2002, 06:18:14 AM
Frank, the concept is called Mistel

The pilot sits in the Fighter, the unmanned Bomber is filled with Explosives.

The Fighter releases the Bomber over the target - viola, you have one massive glidebomb :)