Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mauser on October 15, 2002, 12:13:52 PM
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I just found this story on my daily morning news run:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,65639,00.html
Thanks for the pointer to FOXNews folks.
mauser
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Good post. I was hopeing one of these guys would step up. I have been a little confused by the media's use of the word sniper. It is accurate in a general sense of course. But, when you consider that army basic training, has a soldier shooting targets at 400 meters, with iron sights. 100 yards does not really take any sniper skills.
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Main Entry: snipe
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): sniped; snip·ing
Date: 1832
1 : to shoot at exposed individuals (as of an enemy's forces) from a usually concealed point of vantage
Seems accurate enough to me.
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As I said, it is accurate in a general sense. But if you know anything at all about shooting, you understand the difference.
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I understand perfectly.
The military guy is speaking out because he's worried that the court of public opinion will determine that his profession is dishonorable.
As if he should give a toejam...
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come to canada eh!
where a sniper is a dishonorable profession...
The longest recoreded 'kill' in afghanistan(sp?) was recorded by a canadian sniper team ... it made news in the US... not so here.
SKurj
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Originally posted by SKurj
come to canada eh!
where a sniper is a dishonorable profession...
The longest recoreded 'kill' in afghanistan(sp?) was recorded by a canadian sniper team ... it made news in the US... not so here.
SKurj
The US Armed Forces wanted to give him a medal, but the Canadian goverment refused.
I dont see why it was seen as despicable, acording to the soldiers who were there, he saved many lives with those impresive shots.
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that's what too much PC get's ya
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Originally posted by SKurj
The longest recoreded 'kill' in afghanistan(sp?) was recorded by a canadian sniper team ... it made news in the US... not so here.
SKurj
BS. It was all over the news.
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Damn Cancommunistadians. I blame them for this. Nuke Canada!®
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As I said, it is accurate in a general sense. But if you know anything at all about shooting, you understand the difference.
The difference between what? A "good" sniper and a "normal" sniper? He's still a sniper.
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from dictionary.com
A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.
If all it take is concealment..why call this guy a sniper..he is a gunman. We dont know if he is concealed at all anyway. He may be doing it out his car window and counting on no one looking his way.
There is no way he has demonstrated that he is number one.
And we dont have any real evidence that he is number two.
so you are guessing he is a sniper.
The press probably started calling him a sniper because the leathality of the attacks indicated a high level of skill if you dont understand the capablilities of the rounds he is using. And the fact that he is likely using a rifle(although there are 5.56 handguns that could easily do this at 100 yards) brings to mind the image of a sniper.
Everyone seems to kknow where the shots came from after these events..not very sniperish..
But having had a little to do with the military application of the term sniper..maybe Im a little sensitive.
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Was it Thrawn?
I had to get the news from a post in this forum!!
SKurj
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Compared to the vast majority of all other mass-murderers (who use guns), this is the first guy to shoot like a hunter. Most gun-toting killers walk into a place and just start shooting in plain sight, again and again till they run out of ammo, victims, or get killed themselves. They stay in one spot drawing attention to themselves.
This guy uses surprise and concealment, fires one shot and runs. He knows that a second shot will greatly increase his chances of being spotted.
For mass murderers, the DC area killer behaves more like a sniper than anyone ever has before. His skill may not be all that rare or unusual, but his tactics are (for a mass murderer).
eskimo
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Originally posted by SKurj
Was it Thrawn?
I had to get the news from a post in this forum!!
SKurj
It was in the two daily news papers here. And was carried by both national news papers as well as the cbc. Not sure about ctv.
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Real snipers learn fieldcraft... art of camoflage, tracking, movement. Hunters also learn this; however military snipers also function as scouts to gather intell, and perform countersniping among other things. It takes a little more than marksmanship for a team to move around in enemy territory, where your prey won't just run away but attempt to shell you till you don't exist. Also, since the U.S. gov't is technically not supposed to go and officially assasinate people, military snipers go after the other countries forces (this is a very weak difference... probably doesn't hold true 100%, but I don't think we take pot shots at random civilians).
In most of the reading I've done before these incidences, real snipers hate it when the media labels people with rifles going on killing sprees snipers. For good reason too... they (the real folks) managed to get through some pretty rigorous training to get to be who they are. And part of their jobs is to save the lives of their fellow servicemen/women by denying or eliminating an enemy's ability to operate effectively. Being identified with these other folks is an insult. Just call them "gunmen" or something.
mauser
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my, my... skins seem to be getting thin.. data point.. Military Snipers and this bozo we're talking about are killers. The first; trained, uniformed and operating under lawful orders. The second, a murderer loose in society with a long gun.
I hope they find the love muffin soon. In fact, I hope a counter sniper (uniformed, trained and operating under lawful orders) takes him down.
When are you anti-gun dickwads gonna smarten up and catch on to reality.. In the eyes of ALL of historys past and present governments a disarmed population consists of subjects. An armed population consists of citizens. There's a HELUVA diffrence.
abberations like this bozo truckin around pot shotting folks is a part of the price we must ALL pay for being a free citizenry, not a buncha 'subjects'. The folks that fall to the bullets of the mad and defectives are martyrs to a free society. You will not gain those that have died at gunpoint justice or yourselves freedom and security by becoming defenseless subjects to your corrupt and greedy politicians and the minions they control.
just my .02c
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I was actually trying to explain some of what was in that article on our mailing list and having a hard time.
now I just pasted the article in and said, this is what I'm saying.
Good article.
basically the difference between some serial killer with a rifle and the trained professional sniper who has talent, skill and can save lives.
Just like those canadians, giving them the same title as some serial murderer just doesn't seem right.
Originally posted by easymo
Good post. I was hopeing one of these guys would step up. I have been a little confused by the media's use of the word sniper. It is accurate in a general sense of course. But, when you consider that army basic training, has a soldier shooting targets at 400 meters, with iron sights. 100 yards does not really take any sniper skills.
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I was wonderin' how this guy was pokin' his rifle out the window of a truck without *anyone* seein' him do it.
Then I saw the picture of the truck (one of those big box trucks). Wouldn't suprise me to find that the shooter was firin' out a hole in the back (like those Brinks trucks), and it wouldn't suprise me if they end up arresting a shooter *and* a driver.
Total guess of course...
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Many years ago a freak shot about a dozen college students from a tower on a University in Texas.
I prefer to restrict the use of the word "sniper" to military applications, but if this fiend is operating for islamic militants then the word use is appropriate. If it is just some inbred freak then the word mass murderer is ample enough and does not dishonor the military specialists who snipe at enemy military and political targets.
And any proffessional soldier will give a toejam. Just find one somewhere and explain your position in person, you will get the drift of the point I am sure.
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Originally posted by Pongo
from dictionary.com
A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.
This differs from the Mirriam-Webster definition.
Who's right?
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Originally posted by Yeager
Many years ago a freak shot about a dozen college students from a tower on a University in Texas.
I prefer to restrict the use of the word "sniper" to military applications, but if this fiend is operating for islamic militants then the word use is appropriate. If it is just some inbred freak then the word mass murderer is ample enough and does not dishonor the military specialists who snipe at enemy military and political targets.
And any proffessional soldier will give a toejam. Just find one somewhere and explain your position in person, you will get the drift of the point I am sure.
Oh I get it... you can't be a sniper unless you have a political agenda.
Okay.
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I feel oddly protective of these guys. Especially the troopers I served with. Most people don't have any reason to think about what it means to make a living that way. I was confronted with the choice once. Frankly, I couldn't cut it. It's not hard to shoot back at people that are shooting at you. Nor is it very difficult to live with the results. But, killing an unsuspecting, possibly unarmed, man. From hundreds of yards away. Is a different matter. It takes a level of professional resolve, that I have never had. Being faced with the choice forced me to think, long and hard, about it. And to face my own limitations. The experience left me with a deep respect for these men. And a strong sense of gratitude for what they sacrifice to secure my family"s freedom. And in the case of cops, my family"s security.
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Snipers aren't only in the military btw, they are the folks (for example in swat) also who free hostages by shooting the victim taker or stop people from commiting suicide by taking the long shot to shoot the gun out of someone's hands..
Then there are the military kind who take the nme out with surgical precision in order to free up pinned down troops, people who fight for this country and other countries.
Then there's some wackjob serial killer with a rifle killing civilians who are just going about their lives.
all under the title of sniper..
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Originally posted by easymo
I feel oddly protective of these guys. Especially the troopers I served with. Most people don't have any reason to think about what it means to make a living that way. I was confronted with the choice once. Frankly, I couldn't cut it. It's not hard to shoot back at people that are shooting at you. Nor is it very difficult to live with the results. But, killing an unsuspecting, possibly unarmed, man. From hundreds of yards away. Is a different matter. It takes a level of professional resolve, that I have never had. Being faced with the choice forced me to think, long and hard, about it. And to face my own limitations. The experience left me with a deep respect for these men. And a strong sense of gratitude for what they sacrifice to secure my family"s freedom. And in the case of cops, my family"s security.
No kidding easymo... total ruthlessness is a quality that most men don't have. It's a tough job, no question.
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(http://www.hotspotfishing.com/userimages/VEND-19547_99598.jpg)
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:confused:
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Call what/whoever you want a sniper. A person who shoots rabbits with a high end crossbow using optical sights can logically be called a sniper, or a guy with a scoped 30-06 Remington hunting deer...he is sniping......sure he is.
IMO, SNIPER is a military term describing specially trained soldiers with a weapons designed for exceedingly high accurracy used from concealement at long ranges. IMO
In reality, this guy or several, could be just that. Sounds to me like there might be two teams or more doing this with the manifest political intent of terror. If that is the case then these killers, if they are apprehended alive, should be tried by military tribunal and executed swiftly with prejudice.
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So, what is a "Sniper"?
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one who snipes..
for example Sandman is a sniper ;)
Originally posted by Monk
So, what is a "Sniper"?
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Originally posted by Kanth
one who snipes..
for example Sandman is a sniper ;)
OIC... one who aims a carping or snide attack... :)