Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BGBMAW on October 15, 2002, 03:09:51 PM
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PLEASE ..Please HTC......
Put the speed you calibrated at in the f6 view..
And also include your current speed in the same Bomsite view....
Would be a tremendous help....
Any reason why not too??
Love BiGB
xoxo
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I second this.
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Agree with the idea, but maybe a red/green/blue, (over/correct/under) light, or a centering needle, would seem more WWII than a digital display.
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hell yes
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Please!
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Sounds like your asking to have it so you can bomb accurately and not have to maintain a constant speed.... you'd only need to maintain it for a brief second while you dropped your bombs. Doesn't sound like a great step forward to me, quite the opposite.
Don't you calibrate early at constant speed now? Why would you want to change speeds and not have to recalibrate? Sounds like it'd be a game concession or something that isn't required.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Soda..go to hell..........
Answer 1.....
Dont you calibrate at a constant speed now?
Yes I try...but if you just got done climbing or..you hvae to make a large turn..your speed can be thrown off....//
Soda..How do you kno wwhen ua re at a constant speed?
Only way i know is Full throttel for a long time....keeping an eye on a Zoomed up close ASI is roadkill..wacthing the little white arm move a milimeter is ridicluos
Answer 2
Why would you want to change speeds and not recalibrate?
Well 2 things.......My bellybutton is getting shot at while in scope..I lose an engine....Would be much easier to recalbrate at a KNOWN speed then to wait another 20 miles for your speed to settle after losing an engine.
2nd...Somtimes you dont have the choice on changing speeds...
Game Consession??...Do you know anything about a norden bomb site??...It tells you what speed you are at ..and what speed you calibrated at....Plain and simple...
The Higher Alt..the more crtical it becomes of airpseed and calibration...
1 more thing..Explain how this would be a step backwards...a hole....
Sorry but u piss me off..wheh you say stupid things..especilly about Bomers..which i have spent a good deal of time in....
Love BiGB
xoxo
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Soda..after reviewing your last 3 months of Boming..I feel you really dont have too much experince in Buffs...so sorry for any verbal abuse you may have felt...Btu Go to hell....you barely bom....
LMFAO!!!!!!!!.."You only need to maintain it for a Brief Second when boming" (constant speed).....Soda..u really dont buff often ..it shows with thta statemnet..
This would be so true...IF WE HADE CALIBRATION SPEEDS SHOWN IN BOMERS SITE!!!
Thank you....
Love BiGB
xoxoxo
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here's a point.
You have a formation of buffs, a perfect calibration. Some plane comes by and kills the lead buff. Your drones now jump around, your speed changes, and your calibration is worthless.
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excatly...Inno.:)
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BGBMAW, take your meds..... and then grow up. Starting something as "GO TO Hell" simply doesn't show a level of maturity. Still, let me try and help:
I do agree the bomber formation stuff screws things up, but that's a problem with the drones being stupid and trying to follow a mortally wounded lead bomber. It screws up both speed and altitude to be honest, and I've had bombers drop 500ft on me by the time I wrestle control back, and level smoothly enough so the remaining drone doesn't disco below me. The dumb drone thing is really a bummer though since the only time the lead falls out of formation is when it's critically killed, which is easy to detect and should be compensated for by the other drones (ie, if you see the leaders wing fall off it doesn't mean to follow his death plunge).
You really want to know my trick, it's not to calibrate at 100% throttle... it's stupid to do that since it's almost impossible to maintain that speed if ANYTHING happens. It takes too frick'n long to accelerate that last 20mph if you get slow, and any maneuver you do bleeds off that speed. Instead, calibrate at a lower speed. You are incorrect that it's impossible to do that, it is totally possible. The key, as you point out, is that the speedo is too tough to read, even if you zoom in on it. At best you are likely only accurate within 10-15mph. Also, because it takes so long for the bomber to show acceleration/deceleration trends, once you jump to the bombsight you may be missing a speedo change.
So, here's what I do (and you are wrong that I haven't bombed a lot, I have, just not in the MA with a squad that doesn't bomb). Climb to alt, and calibrate at 70-80% throttle, noting the speed you achieve and manifold pressure for that speed/alt. Then, don't change alt but you can change speed all you want. Throttle up to 100% and cruise in. It's 100 times easier to slow to calibration speed than accelerate though at least when you have an extra 10% of excess throttle you have a chance to fairly quickly accelerate back up to calibration vs no hope at 100%. Just before you jump into the bomb-sight, cut your throttles until you get close to your calibrated speed (like I said, maybe between 10-15mph is as close as you can tell without a magnifying glass). Then immediately set the throttles back to your calibration setting by watching the manifolds and getting them back to your calibration cruise settings. It's easy to see those, and they are way more responsive than watching the speedo. From that point on, you know your plane is tending towards your calibration speed since your throttles are at the same setting that gave your calibration speed in the first place.
It's super easy to try this offline, that's how I figured it out, and it made me FAR better able to react to getting jumped my planes and messing up a fragile calibration. The 20mph of speed I lose by throttling back on my run makes little difference 90% of the time. If anything it actually allows me slightly more time over target to set up my fine aim, rather than racing over at top speed. I also know I can fairly quickly accelerate a bit if I'm slowed since I don't need to eek every last mph of speed out of the bomber. Anything trying to get the last 10% of speed out of is a squeak, even a fighter, so why set yourself up for that. It also allows me to guess my speedo only reasonably accurately and then use the manifold to control my true speed so that it'll average out to my calibration point. It gives me a % of error room on both the fast, and slow, sides of the calibration speed, knowing the manifold setting, since I knew what it was, is compensating automatically either way for me.
btw, you didn't check my stats very well. Post bomber calibration (after tour 28), I was an excellent bomber. Tour 30, I was 34th overall in damage/death, 37th overall in damage/sortie, and 3rd overall in hit %. The next tour, 31, I was 1st overall in damage/death, 2nd overall in damage/sortie, and 2nd overall in hit %. I say that qualifies me as a pretty fine bomber pilot, one that hits targets, with lots of bombs, and doesn't die a lot. Quality has a lot to be said over quantity, and it's pretty obvious from the stats that my quality is pretty damn superior. Last tour I didn't fly much, had a new baby to take care of and couldn't take the time to fly bombers... had to go for the instant action furball thing that I could walk away from at a moments notice and not worry about investing any time in bombing.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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WTG Soda on handling that maturely. He should probably visit English class and learn to spell correctly before he starts verbally abusing people.
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ehhhhh ...
Soda...maturity...LOLO I guess you have to have more of a humor to understand me...
Im just fukn around.."GO tO Hell"..its a frikn game..:)
I still dont think your way is the best....yes it can work..but....
I know ...again..THE NORDEN BOMB SIGHT SHOWS SPEED BEFORE and after Calibration....VERY SIMPLE...Period
as for going in at slower speeds....yes tht would work....BUT!!!!!
Are you Honestly saying Showing Speed in Bomr view is not right and it is wrong?? Why?? you said Gaming the Game?
And where the hell are you boming if not in MA..CT??
and I could crap on your offline boming..no one is shooting your bellybutton down..lololol:)
Love BiGB
xoxoxo
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And don't forget: in RL the pilot was still on duty when the bomb sight was in use. In AH the bomb sight should simulate both positions at a certain degree. Best would be a speed/altitude auto pilot with full authority of rudder/aileron (or whatever the actual setting is) and a digital speed indicator.
:)
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Willi,
The current implementation does give some simulation of both positions, you can use the rudder to turn, and adjust throttle from the bombsight position. In real life, the pilot couldn't manueuver when on the final bombing run, and that's the same in here. You really don't want to adjust your throttles though.... but a bit of steering with rudder is totally fine.
BGBMAW,
I just find that showing bomber speed as a digital readout on the bombsight seems rather non-historical, and having a dial-speedo would lead to the same inaccuracies as looking at the one in the cockpit. It's sort of a catch 22 situation. If you add a digital speedo in the bombsight then you end up with a situation where you can laser-bomb again, because the only two factors in accuracy are altitude (which is digitally displayed) and speed (which also would be).... yeah, wind plays a factor, but I think the whole wind thing is broken anyway with these instant wind layers (another topic). It's pretty clear that historical bombing was not terribly accurate from high altitude, but I think we can get at least that level of accuracy with the current system. Unfortunately, the targets in the MA are not layed out very well for carpet style bombing (ie, you almost need laser bombing to really be effective).
If attacked on the final bomb run, in my method, I can jump to gunners positions without fear that my speed is wrong. Infact, once the manifold is set I know that the longer I go without dropping bombs the better my speed is going to match my calibration speed. I freely defend myself, popping in and out of the bombsight waiting to get to release point. That said, losing an engine will instantly throw off my speed, and I can only hope to firewall the throttles and maintain something close to what I calibrated at. It tends to work for me, though I do instantly set max salvo and simply carpet bomb. Maneuvering a bomber for defense when on a bombing run is nothing historical, and I never do that (and I never did even when it was possible).
I can tell the Love....
-Soda
The Assassins.
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I agree. The current setting simulates a pilot who has his eyes closed. I think it would be fair to have a pilot with eyes open.
;)
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Willi, you need to check your facts on how a real bomb run happened. The pilot didn't steer. If you think about it, how could the pilot be steering while the bombadier was also trying to steer to aim.... hate to break it to you so obviously. In the bombsight use the rudder, it works perfectly for steering, maybe even better than in the pilots seat.
Steering as a defense is of pretty limited use anyway, it used to be a much better method but now with the drones flying along in formation your ability to turn sharply and not lose the drones is almost zero, certainly not enough to offer a sustained and credible defense.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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BGBMAW
its been almost impossible to bomb as a rook for the last tour and a half. I know you dont understand that..
Since you brought up sodas bomber stats as if they were important compared to yours...
Sodas damage per death rank for tour 31 was number 1 in the game.
his damage per sorti rank was number 2 for that tour
his hit %(833%) was number 2 in the game.
The knights have been vulching us since that time..
Your ranks for the same tour were 503, 507 and 920 respectivly
Your bomber rank was 759. His was 13
He accomplished this with 9 sorties probably 3 3 plane sortis.
You accomplished this with 178 sortis
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ah jis lik ta shot yew bomers down, its reel purdy
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@Soda
I dare to repeat I agree. :D
Steering while in bomb sight is not the best thing one can do. AH is quite correct in this.
The problem is control of altitude and speed. And I think in RL a pilot did a rather good job as a "smart autopilot".
:)
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Pongo..not sure whatt aall that means...
I do know this..Im a dam good bomer......
So if I bomb a targte then run home...I can get a bettr ranking...Wee
I want to land with kills.....
If die more then soda...well i like to vulch in my 17's after i drop...
These stats are funny..SO if i only do 9 sorties ..hit all my targets and run home I too can be"on top"...lolol
and I do Know this....ALL i diddlyING WANT IS A Golly-gee AIR SPEED INDICATOR IN THE BOMSIGHT....
Is that so diddlying unfair ???
again Plain and simple.
..and IF you going to cry as a rook..."Its almost impossible for us to bomb"...Im not sure why.u have same plane s as us....But again..I wouldnt understand.and I do Know this....ALL i diddlyING WANT IS A Golly-gee AIR SPEED INDICATOR IN THE BOMSIGHT....
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Did you make a funny face while you typed that?
Or spit on your monitor?
STFU dweeb.
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lol i think its funny....
I could care less....
We should all have our pictures next to our names so we can see who the real dweebs are..lolo
Ok..All of the AH peopl are....
I was making a rquest and asking why not to have Speed calibrations in f6 view...
Pongo...is that so hard?
Whe n soda say s its non historical..I say hes Wrong...And he is.
Yes It may not have shown up in a didgital display...
BUT he did have accese while boming to see calbration speed and current speed...
Why must you bring up your own countires short falls to this thread??
"almost impossible for us to bomb"....
loll
On another topic...if you are a rook..and your tulips are getting kiked...and you dont want to lose.///Go Kill barraks...
and PONGO...again..this game has never made me angry at other peopl..other then my self for either hiting ground or not loading boms on my plane....
So in a nice way..."piss off and dont respond if you dont agree"....lolol come on just kidding...
Love BiGB
xoxoxo
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BGBMAW:
well i like to vulch in my 17's after i drop...
And I actually tried to help someone who ackstars....... silly me :) If you're that low why even bother using the bombsight, you can simply jabo drop or ram things.... do you strafe GV's too? Especially Ostwinds, those are real fun to strafe at 50ft above the ground.
SO if i only do 9 sorties ..hit all my targets and run home I too can be"on top"...
You don't hit your targets, look at your hit%, which is totally unrelated to any deaths stats. It's a absolute measure of how skilled you are in hitting targets. Tour 33, 193rd overall, pretty good. Tour 32, 558th overall, well maybe it was a bad month. Tour 31, 907th overall... yikes, did you hit anything?
Having a good bomber rank is really tough, and is a result of accurate bombing, and living to tell about it. I don't ackstar since fighter kills, when I fly bomber, are only intended in defense. If I want to kill fighters I'm a little smarter and fly a fighter, not a bomber, which is intended to, quite obviously, drop bombs. Maybe you didn't realize how that whole part of the game works....
ALL i WANT IS A .....
It wouldn't help you anyway. You'd still calibrate at top speed and not be able to match that on the drop. Plus, I figure you want a digital readout, not a dial on a speedo since you can't seem to use the speedo in the cockpit successfully...
Finally, learn how to spell, or at least type, and you don't honestly need to bold and capitalize every whine... it does help in identifying the chaff though so I can skip those parts more easily. While you're at it, ask for a belly mounted 105mm howitzer for your ackstaring, it'll help.
Tried to help, but for some people it's hopeless.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Giving buffs the ability to hit what they aim at isn't a bad thing.
A digital speed readout would allow for precision drops, but would hardly be a return to laser bombing. Hitting what you're aiming at and continuing on is what bomber should be in AH. What bombers SHOULDN'T do is drop a bomb, make a 90 degree turn, and drop another with perfect precicion the moment after leveling out. A large high resolution analog speed display would work too. The problem with the speedometers we have is that they're incredibly low resolution. A change of 2-3mph is completly unnoticable on the guage.
Or, some kind of fuzziness in the bombsight when it comes to speed might be a good solution. You calibrate, get a certain speed, and as long as you stay within a few mph of that, your bombsight will be the precision bombsight. Turn or change your speed more than a little bit, and you need to recalibrate.
A half a dozen lancs bomb a field, total damage is one fuel bunker, the radar, and a couple of guns.
Untill something is done about buffs, just grab a 110, a20, mosquito, tiffie, or any of the other assorted heavy jabos. They're all much faster, much more reliable, more survivable, flexible, and can inflict as much or more damage in x amount of time as a bomber.
Oh, and BGBMAW, Try using a spellchecker, and taking an english class.
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A half a dozen lancs bomb a field, total damage is one fuel bunker, the radar, and a couple of guns.
And as long as bomb craters are just painted on the ground, so that a plane taxiing along a strip of thousand-pound-bomb craters has a nice, smooth surface to roll on, that's pretty much all you're going to get, too.
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lolo i new u guys would lighten up..lolo
Im waiting for Aces High Spell check...
English class?? thts for sissies
Soda........I usually bomb form 13.9k..to 25 k...
So when im empty..I dont care too much for ranking..I dive down in formation for Chasen u silly ftrs in my DEATHSTAR....I was strfen a bunch of LVTs the ohter day ..after i Sunk there CV..they hated me..at an udefended base...
I have been getting UPD boots almost everyday I fly.....not sure if htis effects my ranking..sorties...
if you notice my total hours boming..HUGE..i do house chores and businees while my bomers grab to alt......
I also will up a buff at a capped airfield..salvo my boms on runway and shhot down a bunch of none knowing how to attks ftrs:)
so ranking may go to hell when u are slavoin boms on Runway
1 More thing SODA ILL MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR!!!!!!
It wouldn't help you anyway. You'd still calibrate at top speed and not be able to match that on the drop. Plus, I figure you want a digital readout, not a dial on a speedo since you can't seem to use the speedo in the cockpit successfully...
Well smart ass.....you are not undserstanding or reading my ENGALISh...heheh spelling i know
I want a speed read out of 1) what sped u are currentl
2) what speed u calibrated at...
PLAIN and SIMPLE....Dam im repeating my self...
if its dial gauge or digital..i could care less...hell it could be u sitting behind me calling out speeds(are u a good aerial gunner)?:)
Lots Lovn
xoxo
BiGB
P.S. Howitezer in belly...HELL YA....
but to try to keep it realistic....how about a B-25H wit the 75 mil cannon in nose:)..or the He129..with cannon in nose:)
"Did i hit anything"...lollo you made me laff at work...
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
English class?? thts for sissies
..
Well smart ass.....you are not undserstanding or reading my ENGALISh...heheh spelling i know
Two points,
First, that isn't english. Second, when you make an idiot of yourself, it really kills any argument you're trying to make. You can't expect someone to take you seriously when you don't understand the concept of punctuation, or make an attempt at spelling things right.
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Innominate
Giving buffs the ability to hit what they aim at isn't a bad thing.
My arguement is I think they can with enough practice and through allowing a little flexibility in tactics. I feel comfortable when I bomb, even knocking out acks from alt, but I think there are a large number of people who have found it daunting. I watched a group of 5 formations of B-17's attack a medium field the other night with pitiful results. They basically all missed, even using carpet bombing. I do agree accurate bombing is tough, I know, I spent likely 50 offline sorties getting it down to a pattern, then improved that so I could handle unexpected things (like losing/gaining speed). It's tough though, but I really don't think putting a digital speedo in the bombsight is the answer. The layout of targets in AH is bad too, bombers are not terribly effective against airfields because they are not laid out in such a fashion to allow good one pass bombing.
Overall, most bomber pilots need more practice though, and the game needs some better area targets for them to hit (ones that actually mean something). Half of the last 2 or 3 tours the strat on some maps has been totally screwed up too, which sucks. Even when it's not screwed up, the usefulness of bombing strat targets is low.
BGBMAW,
You are likely a hero to bomber'ackstar-dweebs everywhere. You run the gauntlet in admitting to using every marginal, or totally unrealistic, tactic in the bomber repertoire. Ackstarring, runway bombing, airfield vulching, shooting GV's... it almost makes me weep to think that HTC implemented the code that would stop you from bombing while parked on the runway. That must have been a devastating day but at least I admire your honesty about your preferred tactics.
All this and then you ask for a realism:
THE NORDEN BOMB SIGHT SHOWS SPEED BEFORE and after Calibration..
That's not the same as:
I want a speed read out of 1) what sped u are currentl
2) what speed u calibrated at...
So, let me understand, one last time. You want a speedo in the bombsight because:
1) the One in the cockpit is a key press away,. too far?
2) you plan on changing speeds while in the bombsight? why?
3) you think it will help defend against fighters?
4) you will use the speedo to know you are slow and to circle for another run?
5) so you can guess where to aim when your speed isn't the same as in calibration?
I can see all kinds of abuses for this, likely many of them could happen already, but I dare not even mention them here unless they become preferred tactics.
It's unfortunate that a spellchecker would likely delay your responses by a day or more.
"HOop U nnDerStanD mi qwestshuns."
-Soda
The Assassins.
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lol Soda ..u made me laff again with ur spelling at the end...
And dam man,,guys lay off the spelling..i just have limited time..its called Shorthand typing...lolol
1) the One in the cockpit is a key press away,. too far?
Crap i hate this quote toejam...
ok ..heres answers to your 5 Questions
1)..going to the cockpit is too far.....Golly-geeMIT!!! I SAID I WANT TWO diddlyING READOUTS!!!! 1 for current speed 1 for calibrated speed...I know u arent dumb...so why do you ask this question when i stated it MANY times in here....1 speed current..1 speed calibrated..
2) Changing Speeds in bom run....Well it would tell you if you have increased/decreased speed on turns...Or after being attked
3) Defend against fiters...not sure how that would work..never heard of Airspeed indicators fighting back..but...ok
4) Circle Around if im too slow.....Of course I would abort if i knew my calibration wasnt right....thats the whole point of having the Speed indicators
5) Well you could estimate where to drop..but I dont like estimating...I like Precision..You know the Norden Sight saying"Hit a Picklebarrle form 20 k"..:)
So I think we are getting closer of you agreeing (spelling)? that we do need and would be a great addition of having 2 airspeed indicaotrs in thebomsight.....Thank you
As for Innom...and my spelling and killing my arguments....not gonna say much except..If you cant understand it...dont reply..."i call it AH short hand...like ..lmfao..lol brb afk..cc. wtf...and of course..STFU..:...lolo:)
I dont have an argument..its a statement of fact....
If we had 2 airspeed indicators in the Bomsigths 1 for current speed ..and one for calibrated speed...) Just like the 2 differnt Altitudes they show...Calibrated alt and current alt....
Love You all (especially when u in front of my plane)
BiGB
xoxo
P.S. You are making me laff..."im a hero to all Ackstar dweebs"
untrue...ever heard of the YB-17?? It was a GunShip..in WW2...true not much used but it did fly and kill.....
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Originally posted by Soda
My arguement is I think they can with enough practice and through allowing a little flexibility in tactics.
No offense, but your argument is wrong. Most bombers are capable of ONE precision drop. After that, the reduced weight causes the plane to speed up, wrecking the calibration. If you need to turn, it's going to get even worse. Setting up a bombing run is half of the flight for the bomber sortie. Doing anything but dropping all your bombs at once will wreak havoc on accuracy.
As for speed, there is no way to tell if your speed has changed, or wether it is stable, other than to wait. A two or three mph change will cause you to completly miss. The cockpit speedometer doesn't have the resolution to show small changes. A high resolution speedometer is needed at the very LEAST for bombing.
In short, bombing can be very effective, but due to the calibration procedure, effect of minor speed changes, and lack of any way to tell whats going to happen untill you drop, the reliability is so bad that you're much better off divebombing. A b17 formation, which is better off divebombing shows that something is broken.
Again, precision drops are possible. Multiple passes are impractical. Reliably killing a target is not possible, except with divebombs.
Oh, and then there is damage over time. x number of bombers(assuming they level bomb, and dont divebomb) will do y amount of damage in z time. x number of jabos will do y amount it damage in less than z time. Jabos will do this more accuratly, more reliably, and offer the flexibility to loiter and provide CAP.
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
l
As for Innom...and my spelling and killing my arguments....not gonna say much except..If you cant understand it...dont reply..."i call it AH short hand...like ..lmfao..lol brb afk..cc. wtf...and of course..STFU..:...lolo:)
To be honest, I can only understand bits and pieces of it. Most of it is downright painfull to try and read, so I just skip it.
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Inom.....im sorry ..I will try bettr to type..my squad also cries about it also....But thx Inom..your posts are correct...ANd i agree with you..I love to see other pilots with a good head on shoulders....
Love BiGB
xoxo
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Most bombers are capable of ONE precision drop
Both in AH and historically.... correct.
Ok, that's a little sarcastic, I see what you're asking but did you know that the total difference in speed in a Lanc between fully loaded and empty was only 10mph? Yeah, 10mph, with each bomb equalling exactly 1/14th of 10mph (ie. 7 bombs = 5mph). Add to that the acceleration problem, it took 1 and a half minutes to accelerate that 5mph after dropping 7 bombs. I can still hit something at 5mph difference from my calibrated speed. I still found I could reverse, set the same manifold, and still expect to be within 5mph of my calibration speed if I dropped half my load on one pass, and half on the other. That was still accurate enough to knock out my targets at 5mph difference from those alts. That really was a product of a really good calibration though, since I tend to hold my aim point on calibration for at least 20seconds or more (not the 5-10 they say).
Honestly, most things are working against you when making a second pass. The wind is a problem, since when above the layer it totally throws your bombs the wrong direction. Second, the drones can barely follow a gentle turn. Third, when bombing at top speed I found I had less time to hit targets on each pass since everything just passed underneath that much faster. Also, when making a second run, at top speed, it took 3 or more minutes to actually accelerate back up to anything near top speed since the corner likely scrubbed off 20-30mph, at least, if you didn't sacrifice alt in the corner. Finally, any second pass is likely to be far more opposed by enemy fighters than the first.
This is all why I went for my slower bombing method, it meant I could turn and accelerate up to speed more quickly, and get a second pass in before more fighters showed up. A slower over target speed also gave me some time to rudder around a bit when in the sight and knock out several things in one pass. I would use up my bombs in 2 passes and get the heck out of dodge.
The whole Jabo thing vs. bomber thing is true, they both tend to hit the same targets and yet the jabo is honestly more effective. I think hitting airfields is better left to jabo unless attacking a large field where you have lots of closely spaced hangers. The root of that problem is that bombers don't really have any good targets to hit. The HQ is not very valuable, typically, and what else can you really hit that's of any value with a large bomb load. HTC needs to address that with large area targets, like cities, petroleum fields (lots of rigs), rail yards, things suited to carpet bombing in one pass. The City(s) for each country are not bad to hit, but honestly don't usually mean anything until the battle is all but over for one side or the other. I do feel your pain with that, I wanna carpet bomb lots of closely spaced stuff. As it is, bombers are mostly useless.
Add that to the multitude of other stuff wrong with bombers: damage carrying over (still), defensive gun convergence issues, etc..... I think overall bomber pilots right now have a raw deal. That said, adding a speedo is not in my opinion going to really help, and I don't think it would be a good addition. I can just see people abusing it by doing tricks like reversing quickly, diving to pick up speed again, recalibrating alt instantly, and then having a perfect calibration for your next run since you can watch the speedo in the bombsight.... that scenario wouldn't improve things for the game. At least not in my opinion.
BGBMAW, damn, I could read the whole message you wrote in one pass... congrats.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Good points soda.
A couple of problems,
We currently know that strat targets will be expanded to be more damagable by buffs. Who cares though? Strat is pointless. A major overhaul of strat is needed, there needs to be an immediate and noticable effect from it. With the current system, it takes multiple large attacks coordinated together for strat to be of any help. It's easier just to use those people to attack the field, and cap it.
As long as nobody cares wether or not thier strat is being bombed, strat has no meaning other than getting your bomber rank up.
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Saying the strat is broken barely does justice, it is completely hooped. From several standpoints it needs to be addressed, some of which are easy to remedy, others which are much more difficult. The easy part would be to increase the concentration of targets within a strat square, making carpet style bombing more useful. Honestly, calibrating forever so you can bomb from low alt and hit something is beyond what most players are willing to learn. Bombing is tough now, no doubt, and it takes practice and time. Making it a bit easier would be nice but I don't think fiddling with the bombsight is the way to go. I think it should really entail a massive increase in target size so even a newbie can take off and hit something in a target square even if his calibration was half-way decent. Now, that said, I do think a higher level of calibration skill should give better results.
ie. If you had a large town with rivers, bridges, railyards, factories, etc, all in close proximity, then anyone should be able to hit the town in general and get some building kills. A better bomber might be able to hit the factory district, knocking out more important factories, while a really good bomber pilot might be able to pick off the railyard... you get the idea.
Secondly, and this is much tougher, some way needs to be designed so bombing means something. The problem is, it can't mean too much and it shouldn't mean too little. We've been down both roads in AH in the last couple of years (I've been around a while). When it means too much, a single pilot can basically throw the balance off with a single suicidal move. Right now we have the opposite, strat targets are tough to get too when in enemy territory, and mean very little. It's a really tough balancing act and HTC I'm sure is still trying to figure out how to get something that is fair to everyone.
The only way I've considered it might work, would be to increase the size, and number of strat targets. That would put something in reach of all bomber pilots, while the more experienced ones would be able to inflict a higher level of damage because they could pick out specific areas of each city to bomb. Deep raids might offer a higher reward, but honestly I don't think everyone wants to fly a 2 hour round trip bomber sortie (with climb times). Also, you don't want to have to bring 5 guys along every time in order to actually be able to fight through a half dozen enemy fighters. Big raids, like you used to see from time to time, still might go for big return, and hit deep. Also, the larger the country, the more the infrastructure (strat) might mean, giving the underdogs a little boost from hitting targets. If there were 30+ strat targets/side, of varying sizes and types, then it would diversify what you could hit. Also, losing 1 or 2 might not make a big difference, but losing lots of them would. Finally, to keep people in bombers, make the strat targets stay down for longer, possibly hours. That way if a bomber pilot wanted to make a difference he would have to invest a couple of hours of attacks, for which the damage he did would last even longer.
Dunno, most of that is just a big brain dump, but I feel badly for bomber guys right now. I used to fly bombers a fair amount, certainly more than now, but I think most people would agree that in the current state they are more interesting, but less useful. Changing the bombsight wouldn't improve things, it would just focus you on hitting airfields, which is really a waste of bomber resources.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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ok..soda.u hijaked my Post...............
this is Plain an dsimple..I want calibrtaion speeds shown..along with current speed........
your Jabo vs Buff ideas are great but...Thats not how the MAw works...we have different groups who do diff things...
The Heavy Bom groups..move up ahead of our Jabo divisions....THERE i sno way the same amount of pilots can deliver the sam bom load to a HQ or strat..than Buff pilot can....
love BiGB...
And Soda..IMhave air marshals on board so do no tatempt to hi jak this thread..again.....lololo
love BiGB:)
xoxo
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about bombing..ranking...targets at airfields ought be rewarded far more than puke depots and such...Fh's are REAL hard to hit..and there's invariably a 25k 190 waiting on ya....guys who whack depots at 4am with really oughtnt get same score results, for those who measure folks by such things. (re: speed -- i usually put manifold pressure at 35 on a 17..open doors....wait 4-5 min or so..speed will be around 150 at 25k)...but the BIG thing
WHY CANT A fluff'n DRONE KEEP UP IN LEVEL FLIGHT!!!!!??? ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH
NOT LIKE it ISNT already hard enough bein outnumbered 187 to 95..NOW my fluff'n drones fall back in level flight and blow up! This happens with a dial-up..as well as T1 line with delay of 80's
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LOL...BigB is a tard, we all know it cuz of his spelling. Hell, you ought to hear him on squad channel. Actually, if you get to know him, he is very funny & I always look forward to flying if he is online.
One thing I do know about BigB is he is very accurate at hitting targets in the Buffs. Sure, he goofs around & does Deathstar things & all, but he can very accurately hit targets, I would guess 90% of time from Alt. If you want to thump chest & think rank or scores in AH means much go ahead. BigB is one who truely doesn't care about that stuff.
I am not even sure why he wants all this crap for dropping them eggs. It seems like it would only make it easier for others.
BigB, shutup, fly straight & CHECK 6!!!!!
Oh ya, on vulching runs don't forget to just slightly damage the planes so I can come in with the 20mm for the kill.
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This thread is boring.
Let me suggest the following: Add a split screen option, so you can see both the pilots (including instruments) AND the bombardiers view at the same time.
That would match the real live setup considereing there were two to do the job.
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Golly-gee..som u guys are stupid.........
CCVI...if its boring dont respond to it... dum asses..but ill do my best...
What im stating is we need a CALibrated airspeed meter..and a current airspeed meter....SIde by side...
Sure in the hell not no split screen...arghhh
Beat it if this is "boring"
Love BiGB
xoxo
Asholes
no t all of u ..just some
P.S. BiG Guns....U are only allowed in a Spit1 with 8 303's...and u are only to remove the nmes Ailerons..both sides...Then is when i come down and fifnsh it..:)
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I didn't say the request for such a gauge was boring.
Only that continuous
Soda: NOO! Don't do it.
Someone else: YES!! Do it!
Soda: Never, it sucks.
Someone else: Noo, it's historical.
...
THAT's boring.
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lolo ccvi...Yes you can say boring..thts the nicer thing to say..:)
Love BiGB
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I would like to see speed readouts for the simple fact that bomb accuracy is more dependent on speed then altitude. For example, you are bombing from 15,000 feet AGL and calibrate your speed to 200 mph. If your speed increase by 2 mph by the time you reach your release point, the bomb will hit 89 feet beyond your aim point. If you where able to hold 200 mph, you would have to climb 300 feet higher to cause the bomb to hit 89 feet beyond your aim point. It is a lot easier to see a 300-foot difference on the altimeter than a 2 mph difference on the ASI. Therefore, speed readouts would be more helpful then the altitude readouts for bombing accuracy.
It is easy to set the autopilot, easy to click the map to get target altitude, takes a little skill to do the speed calibration accurately, and then it takes a miracle to be at the correct speed using the ASI at the release point in order to take down a hanger. It still may take something of a miracle even with speed readouts to be on-speed at the release point, but the readouts would give you a chance to guess how long or short your bombs will be.
It is harder to get to the targets in a bomber than in a JABO -- the rewards should be greater when you do.
I don't really have to curse to be heard in this post, do I?
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diddly yes
ollolol
no Mach..i just get iritated over statment sthat have no diddlying bearing on what i started this post about:)
but ...u and I are on same page...:)
love BiGB
xoxo
Do u think HTC sees this...ohh Please add a calbratoion speed meter in bomer view..along with ur current airspeed...
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get sober first ;)
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The Lacaster is actually a very good jabo plane if the acks are ded and you don't ripp the wings when you pull up...Take out a hanger with 3 eggs everytime.
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Speed is not the key to bombing...
It's all dependant on the alt vs drop alt.
I just use the speed to adjust my alt while i'm in my sight.
I have hit a base, turned 180 and come back and hit the base again without having to recalibrate. Simply because I made sure my alt matched my drop alt. You can do precise bombing using this method.
Do your initial calibration, then from that point on, just use your speed to adjust your alt while in the sight.
80% is stable level flight, 100% gradual climb, below 80% fast or gradual drop.
Using this method I don't have to carpet bomb, but can lay in the formations bombs right on the target.
Frstrm
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^^^^
WHAT?!??!? Speed doesn't matter????? think about it for a second. The bombs are released AT THE SAME SPEED THAT YOU R PLANE IS TRAVELLING. FYI, bombs don't drop at a fixed angle but at an angle in relation to the speed of your plane. Check my bombing stats to see what I know.
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Then how come I can do a sharp 180 turn and hit percision on target by just verifing my alt = drop alt in sight?
Obviously a 180 turn back to target would greatly affect my speed, and thus by your argument throw off my sight calibration....
Frstrm
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If that really is the case the bombsight is auto-speed correcting.
GAMEY!!
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o h,,how dum we were when we were younger..well i guess som eof us our still"younger"...
Frstrm....if ur speed is not the sam as when u calibrated..you arent going to hit targt,,,,,
IF you were rigth every1 would be smashn toejam..and there are defntly not...
I will look at your boming stats see if tht says anything...actaully scrw it,,U suk,,,I can tell the way to are talking...maybe you are mistating yourself..I hope for your sake...
LMFAo...all u need is the sam alt!!...:D
Love BiGB
xoxox
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All I can say is give a try and let me know what you find out...
Frstrm
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No.
Give us your "180 degrees turn with bombs hitting the target" in film.
Most of us won't bother to try what you have suggested because most of us have been trying to perfect bombing ever since the new bombing model came out. We already know by experience how incorrect calibration throws off the bombing accuracy drastically.
What you claim only makes us suspicious that you are using the precision bomb sight allowed in some dweebey arenas and H2H rooms.
So, back up your claims with proof and then we'll believe.
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As for the request for speed indicators, it's glaringly obvious what it's aimed at. With the speed indicators, you can effectively negate the need for a bomb run completely. "Mark" a spot, measure the speed and altitude, then do all kinds of wiggling, swerving to survive(of course, as limited as it is for the sake of the drones), and just at the last minute before drop fiddle with the throttle and lever so the plane is at the speed and alt which you initially calibrated and Voila, accurate bombing without a steady bomb run.
I strongly believe HTC left out the speed indicators at the bomb sight on purpose: to force bomber pilots to a steady bomb run, making it impossible to exploit the system.
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What the bombers really need is this:
Bomber has control of the plane (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68341)
The "mark" process of the real Norden bombsight wasn't just for measuring relative speed. It was for locating the target, adjusting the plane's flight path, and was also a timed auto-drop mechanism which the moment of drop was determined by how it was calibrated.
The most ideal alternative would be introducing the Norden bomb sight in exactly the way it was modelled in B-17 II. However, if it isn't possible, at least add in the auto flight path adjusting feature so the calibration process will be done in clear and simple steps:
1) "mark" target by pressing "Y" down:
( fine tunes flight path + measures relative speed)
2) click on clipboard map to measure relative alt
3) all done!
This way, there isn't any need for last minute adjustments in flight path which (even if it is ever so slightly) throws off speed and altitude. You've got everything calibrated right, but then you find out the flight path is a little off.. you have to fiddle with the stick until the flight path is right - small touches so it doesn't effect speed and alt much - and this takes some time.
A considerable waste of valuable time at the bomb sight because though you took all the careful steps to manage a good bomb run, the flight path 3~4 degrees off which can ruin all the good steps you went through.
Let the "press Y" "mark" process have some more meaning, which would enable the bombardier to move the marker to the target itself and take care of his worries with flight path management and measuring speed at the same time.
With this modelled, no additional need to stay at the bombsight to verify you have a perfect flight path. Once you are sure you have calibration done well, you can confidently stay at gun positions and return to the bomb sight only at the moment of drop.
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It is a shame that interspersed with some really good information there are just people who cannot keep away from being personally abusive.
Kwessa,..nice write up.