Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on October 16, 2002, 07:46:33 PM
-
Or possibly it is the Tungsten cored HEAP rounds that our flakpansie and apparently the manned AA/AT/anti-ship guns fire as well.
Was killed at a range of 3500 yards twice. In two hits. I was hull down on a ridge. A whoopee TANK hit me twice with 75mm AP rounds from 1700 yards and didn't do any whoopee damage, so would SOMEONE please explain how in Christ's name a whoopee 37mm round can kill in one hit from over twice that distance? Please?
What, he LOB one at me?
How much armor can a 37mm HE shell penetrate from 3,500 yards away? Or to play it safe, how much armor can a Tungsten cored HEAP round penetrate from 3,500 yards away? I was also a good 1,000 feet higher than the manned gun was, so that'd be one hell of a lob.
For the love of GOD, make the armor on the Panzer IV ARMOR. Or were Tanks regularly killed by small bore AT cannon at a range of two miles? I'm no expert historian, you guys tell me.
-
i wonder why the 37mm anti-tank gun was called a anti-tank gun?
-
That's ok, Urchin, let it out. Tell us how you REALLY feel... :D
-
Originally posted by Urchin
I'm no expert historian, you guys tell me.
you suck?
;)
-
Sweet! I wondered how long it'd take, that was pretty quick.
Just kill the acks.
I doubt it was over 3k but it might have slightly. Somewhere around that range the rounds simply disappear, can't remember how far anymore.
As for the single hit, reminds me a bit of the DMF hispano thread. Took me about 50-60 rounds to find range then about the same again to kill you once I found the range.
You also might not want to sit right on top of the ledge, it makes it very easy to find range.
Finally, if you get killed by ack once, I'd kill the ack the second time around, but that's just me.
-
i hate the flak pansie luckily it goes down with one nicely aimed 75mm he shot
-
Fatty, if it took you 50 or 60 HITS to kill me... do you not think I MIGHT have heard some hit sounds? Thats pretty standard when a round hits you. It is even easier in a tank, since there are some pretty distinctive hit sounds in that vehicle.
I would have known if you had hit me 50 or 60 times. I heard 1 hit both times, then I was in the tower.
There is simply no possible way that I would have 'lost' that many hit sounds.
And if a 37mm round from an anti-AIR manned gun (which I would assume means HIGH EXPLOSIVE rounds, since that is pretty standard fare for AA guns) can kill a tank at even 3,000 yards, I'm not going to kill the ack. I'm going to ask that the diddlying tank be looked at, since it ought not be possible.
-
-
-
Okay, far be it from me to dissuade you from these beautiful meltdowns. You're right, killing the ack was a silly idea.
-
hehe.. at the same base, i hit him at half the distance with a 75mm round of AP from panzer, not any damage.... Intersting *scratched chin* :D
-
doh.. interesting
-
doh again, that was 3 hits of 75mm AP ammo from the panzer. Think i am done yet?;) :p
-
I heard 2 hits Lazer. But I HEARD them, even if they didn't do any damage. Fatty says he hit me 60 times with the 37mm from 3,000 yards... but I didn't HEAR any hits. Furthermore, he could have hit me a zillion times and I still don't think it should have penetrated.
-
Urchin the sad truth of the matter is that Fatty knows the right angle and place to get the best penetration that makes you squeel.
The mans a stud
-
huh huh...he said "penetration"....
-
Urchin.. The Damage modeling here is subpar as far as I have noticed in comparison to the likes of Il2, and Warbirds.
The Paper damage not only seems to hold true for the ground war, but yet as well for the air to air aspect.
Aircraft in Aces High simply fall to pieces with a short and Very long ranged shot.
The Aces High damage model seems to be akin to Binary either On, or Off and no inbetween.
There is always the issue and aspect of Network lag, and the loss, or misguided direction of information at the split nanosecond that you "hit" the target on your display. This is something that will seemingly exist until the day that we are all on a oc3 lines direct to each other.
As far as the Damage modeling goes, yes I agree whole hartedly that this is a major weak point for Aces High.
For any descent amount of viability, take a look at Films of actual Air to air combat.. and Then the likes of Il2.
You will come to the conclusion that the "penetration" of amor/metal/plastic/fiberglass etc.. is less than high fidelity graphically/damage wise with aces high.
This is Not a Downplay on HTC either, simply an observation, and Quite honestly I would REALLY like to know what Hitech thinks of his damage model in a comparitive way to that of Il2.
I think That many here are very eager to make Aces High the best online sim out there, but thier voice is not the one creating the product that we play.
HTC I ask you to please tell us.. the players.. How you view your current system of Damage modeling, and not as a Flamefest, but rather a comparitive discussion of what you Like/Dislike with the current system that Il2 uses and if you see their way of simulating damage as something you would like to create eventually.
:)
-
Hi,
I'm not sure if it was Pyro or HT that commented in another post that the gv damage model is the most complex model in Aces High. If I remember the gist, this was used as a possible explanation for the sometimes weird things that happen, although wouldn't explain why no hit sounds.
Cheers................Trikky
-
Trying to say this in a nice way. Aces High aint no tank (ground) sim. Consitency with respect to GV damage is little to none... I'm not suprised by anything that happens between any GV's anymore.
-
Why I stopped bothering with GV's about 3 tours ago. I don't get to spend alot of time online (well not as much as I would like) as it is and HT can bring out as many new tanks,SP Guns,armoured cars etc as they like. But imho, untill the damage modeling is more realistic I won't be taking anything out of the hangar.
...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers
-
°
-
Originally posted by Vulcan
Urchin the sad truth of the matter is that Fatty knows the right angle and place to get the best penetration that makes you squeel.
The mans a stud
ROTFLOL!
Urchin, the armour in tanks is a known shortcoming of AH. However, AH is a flight sim first, and priority will be given to the flight-sim-first side of the house. Think of GV's as something to do when your really bored.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Think of GV's as something to do when your really bored.
so you're saying the pizza map is really boring?
:D
-
Armor was one thing Warbirds did right. I don't know the technical reasons behind it, only the end result. In Warbirds a tank is built like...well, a TANK :) Whatever you think of Hotseat, he did actually go see the real tanks, measure the armor, then go to alot of trouble to get the ballistics "right".
I tried out aces high here and there since the very first Beta release. GV's have always been the very weakest part of Aces High. One early reviewer from one of the big game review pages tore em a new one over the GV's a year or so ago (you might still find it with a Google search) - they are a little better than they were - but still wierd.
But then Aces High is an airplane game after all, right?
Edit: I totally exploded a tank last night in one pass with some 20mm and 2 pops of 30mm. Not damaged, I mean completely blew him up.
-
i always wonder how Osties survive direct 500lbs hits ( i mean i see the damn Ostie in the middle of my bob crater) and keep shooting at me, drive out and proceed with no damage. And sometimes all it takes to kill my ostie is a short burst from 109g10. This might sound like a whine for it mostly happens when im in an Ostie, but my Ostie never ever survived a bomb hit even if it was nearby, not even direct, and most of the times it wont make it if it gets hit by cannons.
Once i saw an ostie survive 6 direct hits of 75 AP panzer shells, and once again most of the time it takes 1 ping to kill me. The only explenation i can think of it that GV dmg modelling is somewhat random, for i never know whats gonna happen or how much will it take to kill one.
-
I have to wonder if it is somethng to do with a bug in the field gun. We already know that field guns are bugged enough so that you can't see them firing at you. Maybe this "buggyness" is somehow related to how Urchin only heard the final shot that killed him?
-
Another side of this a lot of people may not remember is back when only 50cals were defending the field, panzers could roll up onto the base and not only be untouched by any base defense, but also draw all of the ack on to the panzer with none shooting at attacking planes. Larger guns were added to the field defense to make sure attacking vehicles had to take out the guns before rolling on to the base.
If you're looking for panzers to be immune to field guns, I think you're in for a pretty long wait.
Of course, as urchin pointed out, killing the ack is just a silly idea.
-
What's weird to me is that I can roll to a field or city in a panzer and the AI ack will shoot at me as long as I dont move I wont die but if someone mans an field gun I am dead in just a few hits.
-
Originally posted by keyapaha
What's weird to me is that I can roll to a field or city in a panzer and the AI ack will shoot at me as long as I dont move I wont die but if someone mans an field gun I am dead in just a few hits.
Mannable AA does not fire, unless it is manned, that and their 37mm. The others are 20mm and .50 cal (non-manable)
-
i was under the impression that AP shots were NOT armour peircing so OF COURSE it will take more to take out the armour on a tank...as of the 37 flakpansie gun well i htink that that is a HE so it is armour peircing. if you must do tank to tank battle use the smoke shots to help with your aim and the HE shots t oremove that evil tank
-
Panzer is not paper, just dammage model is very strange.
Sometime you need 1 shell to kill anything, and can get everyone from bad angles and at big distances. Sometime, you get em from rear, at dead close, with many hits, and still no kills. Once I used 20+ shells on a panzer, which turret and truck I got, and it refused to die. I specially moved around it, got close and got away, tried every single part on this panzer, and still no kill. I talked to this person, he heard all the hits, so it was not a network issue.
Seems to me it is some bug in panzer dammage model.
Fariz
-
I quit
-
that explains that ,thx rip didnt know that.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
ROTFLOL!
Urchin, the armour in tanks is a known shortcoming of AH. However, AH is a flight sim first, and priority will be given to the flight-sim-first side of the house. Think of GV's as something to do when your really bored.
This looks pretty formidable to me....
-
Originally posted by Rude
I quit
Bwahaha!
Uh, the one thing I've noticed is that in my Typhoon I can take up to (perhaps) six hits from field ack, BUT if a guy is manning the ack one hit is all she wrote.
The 37mm fires projectiles at 900m/sec and at 2000yards range penetrates 6-17mm of armor, depending upon the angle. It can fire AP, or HE, and one of its most devastating uses is upon Infantry. This gun was so feared and admired during WWII, that American tank manufacturers attempted to emulate its charateristics into their own weaponry following the war.
-
Ist, Don't you guys know this is the best modeled game ever?!?!?! There can't POSSIBLY be a mistrake in the game!!!:mad:
2,nd, Voss, bull! If you will note, American armor went to the 105mm gun. There was not a 37mm gun put out for armor usage after WW2. The closest is the 25mm bushmaster in the Bradley AFV. The only 30 mm gun that makes armor worry is in the warthog. Hardly a recreation or immitation of the osti. Even the AA gun the Army fielded around the time of Viet Nam was a 20mmm gattling on the M113 APC.
-
Oops, you're right Mav. I was thinking about the 88mm Flak 37. My bad. However, the muzzle velocity and armor penetration noted above is accurate.
-
Obviously this most complex damage model has a flaw.
37mm FlaK rounds shouldn't be capable of penetrating much anything at range.
(Got to wait to see 37mm rape Tigers :D)
75mm wouldn't need more than couple hits at zero angle and the tank should be pretty much dead.
-
I seem to recall being shocked when a P51D single pinged my Panzer and I found myself in the tower. The range was 1.1k and it was an MG kill. If, that can happen, I am not surprised that a 37mm ack gun can do the same thing.
-
This looks pretty formidable to me....
rogwar,
LOL... i remember those beasts... sea urchins scared the hell outta me when i was a kid
-
The rule for attacking panzers is:
If it doesn't die on the first 75mm AP ping, it's gonna take at least 20 more rounds. (This always seems to be the case for me)
-
Originally posted by Fishu
Obviously this most complex damage model has a flaw.
37mm FlaK rounds shouldn't be capable of penetrating much anything at range.
(Got to wait to see 37mm rape Tigers :D)
wait till someone loses a Tiger to a single 50cal M3 :O
ooooooooooh the WHINE!
whels
-
If it doesn't die on the first 75mm AP ping, it's gonna take at least 20 more rounds. (This always seems to be the case for me)
Depends on how you go for it; I've had some fun on the Mindanao map at, IIRC, A25 by driving south to the lip of the second dropoff, overlooking the vehicle spawn point from V69 when attempts are made to use vehicles to support an attack on the field. Because my shells are dropping in on their targets, I can get one- or two-shot disablements fairly easily at ranges out to 2000 yards or so once I've got the range sighted in.
At shorter ranges, picking your target point becomes more important. A couple days ago, I was defending a town when an Ostwind popped up at the nearby spawn point. At a range of about 800 yards, my first round killed his turret, but he maneuvered to put himself bow-on to me, and I bounced two rounds off the front face of the upper hull (where the driver's vision block is, the thickest armor on the vehicle). I changed my point of aim and pumped one round into his starboard running gear, and he tilted over, slewed around, and stopped, bailing about two seconds later.
-
Originally posted by vorticon
i was under the impression that AP shots were NOT armour peircing so OF COURSE it will take more to take out the armour on a tank...as of the 37 flakpansie gun well i htink that that is a HE so it is armour peircing. if you must do tank to tank battle use the smoke shots to help with your aim and the HE shots t oremove that evil tank
"HE" stands for "high explosive" which was used on soft or area targets. "AP" stands for "armor piercing" which was used against (obviously) armored or hard targets, such as tanks and bunkers.
Most powerful gun is the DE-mounted 20-mm gun. How do I know? I've sunk heavy cruisers and CV's with it;). Talk about a damage model that needs upgrading.:rolleyes: