Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on October 17, 2002, 09:57:28 AM
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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/021017/140/dbza7.html
I don't know what an English homeowner is supposed to do, let the burgler attack him? What if the homeowner only stabbed him once but still killed him, would he still get jail time?
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Break into a house in California... your life is forfeit.
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I don't understand what you mean Sandman, Kieren.
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Yep, the British are definitely setting some trends that we need to follow. Yessiree! No wonder violent crime is on the upswing over there.
Shuckins
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I don't know what an English homeowner is supposed to do, let the burgler attack him? What if the homeowner only stabbed him once but still killed him, would he still get jail time?
No, you can defend yourself if attacked, with any appropriate level of force. That includes killing your attacker.
I think it was the fact the man in this case chased the burgular in to the street, and stabbed him 12 times in the back, that caused the jury to convict him of manslaughter.
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Originally posted by Nashwan
I think it was the fact the man in this case chased the burgular in to the street, and stabbed him 12 times in the back, that caused the jury to convict him of manslaughter.
heh, it's the details that count.
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You can only use deadly force to protect yourself or others. Not property.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I don't understand what you mean Sandman, Kieren.
It means that I do not have to prove that my family are in danger. It doesn't matter whether an intruder is armed or not. Simply being there is sufficient threat and I am free to use lethal force to remove the perceived threat.
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Rgr. The "Door step" is what I was taught. "Make sure the intruder is within the house if you have to use force".
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same 'ol toejam. Criminals rights are more important than the victims.
Somebody break's into my house, I GD guarentee they won't be making out alive.
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Sandman, you are incorrect. GTO is right- There has to be a REAL threat to your well being and safety to you and/your family to use deadly force. If an intruder is running for the front door and you shoot him in the back in your living room that's manslaughter. Likewise if an intruder is a 3 foot tall 12 year old armed with a wooden spoon and he advances on you and you shoot him 9 times in the chest that also is manslaughter due to the lack of legitimacy of a 12 year old's threat.
Basically the Courts have to decide when that self defense turns into aggression, and in this case they decided it was somewhere between the third and fourth thrust in the perp's back with a butcher knife on the front lawn.
I'm amazed none of you have stated the obvious here- Britian needs to ban knives and crowbars and this violence will stop. After all, Britain has no need for knives cause they don't eat beef anymore due to Mad Cow disease.
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depends on the state, in Oregon you have to prove you where in 'real and imediate danger' and even then you're suposed to warn them you have a gun and give them the chance to leave.
it goes completely against everything I was taught as a kid. my dad always told my guns where for shooting not for pointing. nobody should even know you have one until they wonder where that loud bang came from.
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Well... if it's dark and you shoot 'em in the chest, you'll probably be okay. :)
p.s. Be sure to unload that weapon into 'em. No one in fear for their life shoots just one round... not unless they've been highly trained. :D
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12 times?????????
I think that is why he got in jail. 1 stab, 2 stab 3 stab 4 stab 5 stab. the man went pyscho!
and why would you want to kill the man? I would rather him go to jail and deal with BUBBHA wanting to play mommies and daddies than him dying.
Call me sadistic but I am in for a good torture now amd then *sighs* we need to bring back the whips!
and no I am not into that sexual bondage crap either! :)
CB
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Its not always cut and dry.. even in Oregon. Warning someone that you have a gun is not necessary Cpt. Apathy....
Two scenarios (both real):
Someone hears someone close to their house and suspects that someone is breaking into his car. He grabs his shotgun and heads outside. The burglar sees him and tries to run around to the back of the house, but there's a dog there. He then runs back to the front of the house where the man is standing with the shotgun. He was killed. The grand jury dismissed the case because the burglar was running at the homeowner at the time. Warnings and such were not an issue.
The very next month a man grabbed his 30/30 when he heard someone breaking into his garage. The suspect fled away from him and was shot in the back and killed. That home owner went to jail.
Both actually occured outside.
AKDejaVu
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And both sorta make sence. So does sending a guy to jail that stabs a fleeing man 12 times.
I think universal gun ownership would be great. If they could make them so they only work in the home..and dont work on your own family..
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The fella also stated he was protecting his family, after hearing his daughter screaming... only his family was proved not to be actually at home.
You might argue stabbing once was justified - but 12 times in the neck, head and back in the middle of the street?
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Outlaw knives.
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BBS pet peeve..
When the facts get in the way of a good gun rant! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: <-- is that enough?
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LOL That and posting out of boredom MT :)
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I'm sure he had plentiful of time to notice it wasn't a machete, while stabbing 12 times..
Undoubtably the burglar must been beyond threat and dead after 4 stabs in the torso.
But even so, the burglar wasn't exactly invited for a visit..
If he would have shot him, I bet he would been charged for murder :>
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Originally posted by Airhead
If an intruder is running for the front door and you shoot him in the back in your living room that's manslaughter.
Not in Colorado. Anywhere beyond the inside threshold, he could be shot. Just that a stranger is in your house is enough of a threat. They call it the "Make My Day" law here.
dh
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now fess up heroses here..
How many of you hope that one day you catch someone breaking into your house ?
Come on, be honest.
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Originally posted by fd ski
now fess up heroses here..
How many of you hope that one day you catch someone breaking into your house ?
Come on, be honest.
The thought scares the toejam out of me. Encountering someone in the dark in an enclosed space. If it comes down to combat, at worst you lose in a struggle and die, and at best you end up having to answer questions from the cops and cleaning brains off your living room carpet and drapes. Ideally you scare them off and they leave without a confrontation. But if the person is in my home with the intent to do violence against the occupants, I'd be happier to have a gun than not have one.
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It wasn't in my house... but here's what scares me about some people in that situation...
We were in the middle of the jungles of Colombia at a small tent site we'd set up. The Colombians were patrolling around the camp, and we were armed and ready to defend inside of the camp.
Late on a friday night, there was large caliber automatic weapons fire for a few seconds then silence. We were in the equivelent of a cardboard box when one of the officers next to me elected to unholster his sidearm and point it at the door (also made of cardboard). Another joined in with him... as they crouched ready for the enemy. Eager to defend their cardboard box.
About then, and NCO spoke up and said "lay back down gents, its a cardboard box... they'll just shoot through the sides if they do anything. The only one coming through the front door will be one of our people telling us its clear."
The next day I was the only one not in security that kept their sidearm. The rest of the men were orrdered to turn them back in.
The thought of people eager to kill intruders scares me.
AKDejaVu
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I have guns, and I sincerely hope that I never have to use it on someone. I would if it came down to it, but I hope not.
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I love firearms - but frankly I think those I have are more dangerous outside of the case and loaded than a possible intruder. You guys remember the case over here in PA about the guy that shot his neighbor who was drunk and naked trying to break into his house? He went to the big house because he used "excessive force" and the intruder was on the doorstep, not in the house itself... careful where you shoot someone I suppose. :rolleyes:
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I don't know what an English homeowner is supposed to do, let the burgler attack him? What if the homeowner only stabbed him once but still killed him, would he still get jail time?
I think the English home-owner is supposed to offer milk and cookies, then give the burglar a nice, big hug...... kinda like the liberals here in the USA wish it were here.
Then the home owner is supposed to ask what type of weapon the burglar has and if he means to use it.
As a last resort, the home owner is expected to demand the burglar leave the house before morning.
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IMO, if someone is threatening bodily harm to me or my loved ones...then I wll try my hardest to protect myself and my loved ones from danger, using any means I have at my disposal.
Let's use an example. Let's say I'm at school and someone threatens to fight me. I ignore the threat and continue my daily business. He starts to get more hostile, pushing me a dn calling me names. Still I'll ignore it, as it is not an immediate threat. But if that guy swings at me in any way, then it is on, and I will fight him until one of us is reduced to a quivering mass on the floor.
Now...my dad taught me that as long as I do not thow the first punch, it's alright to act. So...according to this situation, if he swings and I beat the crap out of him, I am wrong, because I could have walked away.
Now...let's say I walk away from that fight. Later in the day, I find my car vandelized, and even later in the week I am jumped by him and three friends and beaten badly. I'd rather get in trouble then than get hurt later.
Makes no sense, huh?