Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Booky on October 22, 2002, 02:27:03 AM
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Just curious if HTC is going to do anything about the numbers in the MA? At peak times they are fairly even, but for all other times of the day/night the bish and knights have about 3 times as many than the rooks. Thats each of them, not just one.
Now This sucks for the rooks.
I just wanted to know where you stand on that. Due to the fact that if it stays this way, and the Mision arean fails for any reason what so ever, then I will have to leave. I would hate to do that since I like this game/sim more than any other out, but it just isn't any fun when your outnumbered 4 or 6 to 1 for 4 months streight.:rolleyes:
ps. make this whine of the week, so I can go out in flames (no pun intended)
Booky
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Originally posted by Booky
...so I can go out in flames...
Booky
Welcome to Rookland, mate :D
Pepe
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Perhaps if the rooks stopped being the furball team, you might pick up some more players. The rooks have the best pilots on average(perhaps this is the reason), yet refuse to take bases.
If you want to do anything but furball, either try and organize the rooks, or switch teams. This is one problem whining can't fix.
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Take a wild guess why Rooks grew accustomed to furballing and given up organized attempts to take bases.
...
Organizing 5 people helps jackshi* when there are 30 guys defending a base. Rooks learned it means squat taking on average 4 to 1 odds, spreaded out all over the map giving free kills to score potatos who always larry along their pom-pom girls.
Instead, we figure if people don't much care about willingly maintaining balance, what the heck, let the score potatos go milk run and vulch empty bases. We ain't giving no freebee gang bang a2a kills to the hoarde. Might as well create our own little hoarde and enjoy a2a furball fights against those who dare. Because strat means squat in our situation.
On regular RJO nights you'll see that on equal terms the Rooks are capable of being organized as any other country.
..
Its too bad whining hardly affects turds addicted to getting gangbang kills. Try fly with the Rooks on Pacific/Australian time zones and perhaps you'll see how pathetic "organization" is against overwhelming odds.
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.country 1 || .country 2
If you fly for rooks, it is your decision. May be several reasons to do so, for example I am going to fly with rooks for some time when back to AH in month or two just because it is more competative.
I understand, that problem exists, and rooks are outnumbered for too long to consider it a normal number fluctuations, but the way you put it in does not help to keep discussion constructive :)
And question for you, Booky, if some rook comes, and say which base is needed to be hit, what is your reaction? For some reason I suspect you tell him that you pay for a game, and will do whatever you want :)
Fariz
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Let's face it booky, you aren't going anywhere;)
Was going to ask squad to change to rooks because of the #'s, but it might be a tough sell. I'm new to the squad and they have been knights for some time.
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I for one prefer to be outnumbered. I like to log on and find a map full of red targets. Also I have noticed that if enemie have numbers they are more unawareness, and they are more easy to be killed :) . 3-4 days ago I logged on and I think it was the first time I remember we had numbers...I had no fun. Any resistance were quickly disminished by country mates, fields were captured very quicly. I prefer to see 4 red dots and 1 green than 1 red and 4 green dots in my screen.
What really upsets me is logging on and find my country very outnumbered by the other 2 countries...and see that only our fields are flashing at both fronts. Outnumbered and outattacked lol.
Only for that last reason I would like to see a 2 country map.
Well, this is just my 0.2 cents...cya all in the AH skies.
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OK, on a more serious way...
Fly whatever you like. Like whatever you fly. This is the same for planes and for countries.
I'm happy being a Rook now because it's currently far more challenging than any other country...I will be happy when ;) the tide changes and Rook have the upper hand numbers wise because I will be getting more easy kills.
On the strat side, I tend to agree with Kweassa. You can overcome bad odds with good strategy/coordination, but only up to a certain point. Yesterday, for instance, *both* countries doubled or even trebled Rooks. The situation was so hard that we could do anything but mantain a desperate resistance at the North (A78) trying to draw as many resources from the enemy as we possibly could, while others fought on the South grabbing some land. If that's not coordination, you tell me what it is.
It's became common place to blame Rooks as "mindless furballers". It's really easy to accuse of that when each of the other countries has, at any given time, 40+ pilots for "coordinated" land grabbing without hurting the defensive war. When I'm usually logged, there is no way we can set up anything near a "coordinated attack" our numbers limit ourselves to the desperate knife fight and we usually do not have bases to set up a nice bomb run. Tiffie runs "ala Bishop" would use our whole country attendance. Radar...what's that? Oh, I remember long ago, when we had some....not anymore.... :D
Then comes the new General to Rookland, claiming some attention, and telling us that we have no Idea whatsoever of what this war is all about. After giving some orders or advices, depending on his mood, invariably thinks that lack of attention is due to our "furball" mind, instead of sheer lack of numbers. After a while, the General abandons all hope, and leaves Rookland, not without remarking how poor strategist we are and how better we would fare with simply following the easy advice of "coordination".
Was utmost funny when someone comes to Rookland to give a hand, and leave in angry saying that we wont "communicate". LOL! we CAN'T possibly look at the radio chat. We are overwhelmed and we are too busy trying to kill someone before the inevitable end comes.
OK, I'm a Rook. Proud to be Rook. If you want to give us a hand, you are more than welcome. I will try to clear your 6 if it's at all possible. I won't regret saving you at the cost of my virtual life. I have zero score concern. I like returning home alive, but not at the cost of leaving my buddies behind. So, If you come to help Rookland, do come. We really need some hands. But come to help, just that. Use your abilities in a constructive way. We have enough dealing with impossible odds in other countries. Don't make us lose our little time reading rants and whines on Ch2 about how bad we are. We are Rooks. Not more, not less. :D
Cheers,
Pepino
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Originally posted by Pepe
If you want to give us a hand
no
It's rude I know :D
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Somehow, I expected that. I know I was asking for that, actually... :D
You know the scorpion and the frog fable? (no indirect reference, pls) :D
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In what way does moving to another country help the situation in THIS GAME. Its simple why most of us don't change. By moving to another country we would only be making a bad situation worse.
I have tried to talk EVER single ROOK into moving to 1 country but I have had no luck. I think if some of these pompous turds had to face 300 players to thier 100 ALL THE TIME it would change thier prespective.
No change that just come on over now when there is 300 against
our 50 something (the way it's been at times the last 3 days.)
See what fun that is!!!
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Originally posted by Pepe
Somehow, I expected that. I know I was asking for that, actually... :D
You know the scorpion and the frog fable? (no indirect reference, pls) :D
Yep and I can bite the hand feeding me too :D
“C’est ainsi. C’est dans ma nature”.
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Originally posted by 4ACES
No change that just come on over now when there is 300 against
our 50 something (the way it's been at times the last 3 days.)
See what fun that is!!!
For some people it is a fun. If it is no fun for you, what makes you to fly this way, when you can easily switch?
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double post
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Originally posted by straffo
Yep and I can bite the hand feeding me too :D
“C’est ainsi. C’est dans ma nature”.
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ROTFLMAO :)
good one fariz ... and so true :p
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For some people it is a fun. If it is no fun for you, what makes you to fly this way, when you can easily switch?
Fariz people who fly rooks won't switch because they would make the situation even worse. You're being silly just suggesting that.
If all the unhappy rooks would switch the 200 vs 50 situation would become 225 vs 25. Now how would that help gameplay?
Besides most rooks would get bored to hell trying to find that one red icon between the 20 teamies who already are chasing it down á la bishland. I for one would absolutely hate BOTH flying underdog 200 vs 50 or as gangbanger 200 vs 50.
Players who insist on keeping the current setup are weenies who can't hold their own in a balanced arena. They want only easy kills so they jump to the largest country. From there it's easy to shoot out lame comments to the few who are working their tulips off trying to survive in the unbalanced situation.
This problem has lasted for years already and I doubt it will ever change - that would require bish players to grow some sense of gameplay and it aint gonna happen.
This crappy attitude in AH was one of the reasons I quit playing AH. Not the only reason, but a quite strong one anyway.
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Originally posted by Hussein
Fariz people who fly rooks won't switch because they would make the situation even worse. You're being silly just suggesting that.
Thanks for kind words :)
Now, just look at this situation from a different angle:
We are here to have a fun from a game (I am not talking about masochists, but they do not complain about numbers :) If some reasons (country loyality, spirit of competition etc.) makes you to fly the outnumbered country, then it is your choice.
If it will be 25 rooks, but those who enjoy flying rooks, situation will be this way, 3 country system will be 2 country system, but we will have no numbers whines again and again. I flew beta, when it was 3 countries at map, and 2 coutries with numbers. It was like 30/25/2, with nits having less than 10 anytime of day. It was still playable, and still fun.
As I said, 3 county system currently does not work, but one thing when you try to solve the problem, other when you threating that you cancel account. First is discussion, second is whine :)
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Players who insist on keeping the current setup are weenies who can't hold their own in a balanced arena. They want only easy kills so they jump to the largest country. From there it's easy to shoot out lame comments to the few who are working their tulips off trying to survive in the unbalanced situation.
humm ... it's your interpretation
I fly with my closest friend regardless of the country or the number
I've been bish when bish were NOT having number for month (in my timezone) during a long time (one year +)
I then switched to knight to fly with other friends and for a change
(facing Fariz is more fun than following the smoking wreck he spread on battle field :))
If you want to reverse the current situation you just have to recruit 10/20 dedicaced strat pilots no more just ask fariz how the "infamous typhoon mission" started ?
From memory the first was mine (if I'm not mistaken) when I was a DCO for the Firebird squad night (I'm so proud :D).
This problem has lasted for years already and I doubt it will ever change - that would require bish players to grow some sense of gameplay and it aint gonna happen.
Years You're joking ???
I recall having seen rook reset the bish 3 time in a row in less than 6 hours (well it was soon after beta end :p) and number were something like 10/30/30 (bish rook knight)
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Originally posted by Booky
Just curious if HTC is going to do anything about the numbers in the MA? At peak times they are fairly even, but for all other times of the day/night the bish and knights have about 3 times as many than the rooks. Thats each of them, not just one.
It used to be the same way for Knights. We were the side that the Bishops collapsed to get the reset. Then our numbers went up and we became competitive. I suspect that you'll see an increase in Rooks over the next couple of months.
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Originally posted by straffo
... I fly with my closest friend regardless of the country or the number ...
So when are you going to admit it and fly Rook? :D
Cheers,
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Originally posted by Fariz
... She had a lunch with Straffo...
Well, I think exactly the opposite... :D
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I must admit i do feel a tad of sympathy for the rooks, and i have on a couple of occasions switched for a day to help them out.
My squad is a dedicated Bish squad so i wouldnt switch to Rooks anyway, that may be a problem for a lot of people.
Only those squads that rotate seem to balance out the arena to some extent, but the Rooks are woefully outnumbered most of the time.
Hammy
"ONLY" the dead have seen the end of war.
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I have to (cringe) agree with Hammy, I'm a knight and maybe 5-6 months ago we were in the proverbial bucket for about 2 months. Sure, lots of targets, but also I remember having our bases perpetually porked. Since we were getting reset constantly, after every reset enemies would immediately pile on us and repeat the process. In short, it sucked.
I think the demise of AW and since for some reason a lot of old AW guys picked knight, it pulled our numbers out and we became competitive again (pure speculation). Regardless, we ended our turn in the bucket.
But rooks have been in the bucket for way longer than 2 months, I totally sympathize with them.
I'd suggest to my squad (JG 2) to switch for a tour, but don't know how well that would go over. We have a lot of friends on knights and are comfortable/used to it there.
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"It used to be the same way for Knights. We were the side that the Bishops collapsed to get the reset. Then our numbers went up and we became competitive. I suspect that you'll see an increase in Rooks over the next couple of months."
It use to be the same in Air Warrior and every few months the numbers would change giving the underdog side the advantage. The same will happen here. But for those whinners that want to leave the Rocks, let them leave and join one of the other sides. Then that'll just give us that stay, a bigger "Target Rich Environment" :D :D :D
In the past month I've had to learn better ways on flying and staying alive longer then 1 minute in a dogfight then in the last year and a half of flying AH. Because of the odds against us.
So HTC, leave it the way it is. Our numbers will came up again in a few months. But until it does. Bring on those TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENTS!!!!:D :D :D
Jag34
Tigers
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I'm not sure if the Rooks have been in the "bucket" for a year, but I'd definately say the trend is for the Bishops to have numbers, over the past year.
Granted, that is a generalization, but it seems to me the Bishops usually have the most numbers, followed by the Knights, and the Rooks bringing up the tail end.
I think the Rooks biggest problem is that there is some weird mindset most AH players have. You can log into the map and kinda tell. If the numbers are 100 Bish/ 95 Knight/ and 60 rook, it is either going to be 160 on 95, or 195 on 60. I hardly ever see Rooks and Knights both hitting the Bish hard and mostly ignoring each other. It is usually either Bish and Knight hitting Rook, or Rook and Bish hitting Knight.
I don't know if it is because people are scared to fight the country with numbers or what, but it seems to me that it usually ends up being that way.
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Booky wrote:
Just curious if HTC is going to do anything about the numbers in the MA? At peak times they are fairly even, but for all other times of the day/night the bish and knights have about 3 times as many than the rooks.
That's totally a player issue. HTC shouldn't get involved in "player balancing" as it is all naturally determined by the community itself. I, for one, don't want to be unable to fly for a particular team because numbers in the arena dictate that I can't. For a scenario that's fine, where strict historical issues have to be met, but not in the MA.
If things are "uneven" it's up to the players to right it. Note this isn't a partisan post, I'm not criticising the Rooks in any way, shape, or form. If it never gets righted, then so be it, the players have determined that they want it that way. Given that all the aircraft are the same for all sides (i.e. not limited by nationality/origin) then it's really strictly a player determined issue.
Cheers,
phaetn
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Silly rooks, the answer is obvious.
FLY N1KS!!!
The Ultimate Equalizers.
This has been a whine added on a whine. Pass the cheese!
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Right on, Phaetn -- it's a player issue. HiTech and crew have wisely established an odd number of countries to maximize player dynamics.
What we do with our three choices is up to us. Fewer (two)countries could easily be too boring or lopsided; more countries could easily be too complicated.
Although ... hmmm ... wonder what it would be like with four countries (hearts, spades, diamonds, clubs)? Probably too complicated.
The best way to guarantee balance (assigning players to a country as they sign on each time) would make permanent squads impossible.
And some people prefer to lone wolf it rather than play on a team anyway.
Yep, the current country trio is brilliant, just like the rest of Aces High.
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Well I fly Rooks for two reasons:
1. The Prez of Nits plays poker with Sadaam.
2. Elvis isn't pumpin gas in Kalamazoo after all. The Bish kidnapped him and are holding him at A4!
If this were widely known perhaps there would be more Rooks!
If you want to solve the numbers thing, then autobalance the MA like Counterstrike does. If you are a member of a squad that is Knight, then you stay Nit etc. If you are not in a squad, you are automatically assigned a country based on numbers for the night. You could request a country but might not get it. This would also solve the problem of people changing countries just to get the perk points.
However, since I am not in a squad and enjoy flyin Rook, I do not favor this... but it would solve the balance problem.
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Funny you should say that Fariz. I do believe I am one of the few that help where it is needed. I never claim the I pay crap. If I dont come running its because im already attacking or defending a field.
You just don't know me so I can only guess where you got the assumption from.
For the most part this was a whine/frustrations/vent thread since almost everyone knows that once addicted to AH you can never leave. Whats that song by Eagles? Paradice City?
Anyway, I hold my own Fighters 19, Bomber 9, Attack 13, Vehicle 2, Overall 3. Not bad for being a ROOK id say. And ask any rooks and see if I didnt dive into a mob to try and save their skin. I just want to ahve fun, and its tuff when the numbers have been outright terrible for 4 months or so.
Booky
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Originally posted by Fariz
For some people it is a fun. If it is no fun for you, what makes you to fly this way, when you can easily switch?
Ya, Fairz I see you as the kind that when the Nazi's came in to their country would join right in with the ol' goose stepin' crew then when the US came in and liberated you, you were the first on the street to start waving the american flag. In other words you switch to what ever side is winning.
We may be a small band but we stick together. It comes from being an AMERICAN some people like you will never under stand.
In other words talking to you is a waste of time, just like what George Carlin said about wrestling and I quote;
"I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time arguing about it."
:p
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KYridgeRunner you're a [fill with insult here]
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KYridgeRunner,
I think you really belong to where your siggy says you come from...
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KYridrunner, you lead the way baby, whenever wherever you were needed, you were always there for all the boys.
to you, you fun loving mutha f@ker you!
PS, this post was meant in fun, just a joke.
:D
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There are ways to balance the arena and it should be considered.
1st. Take the rotating squads and balance the arena.
(They shouldn't mind since this will only be for a limited time).
2nd. Limit movement between the countrys to once a month or
once a week and all movements have to be approved by AH
staff. (Submit a transfer request).
(In other word make someone work once a week at AH
and only allow transfers that would maintain the balance.)
3rd. Put new players in all 3 countrys equally.
Its true that the numbers would vary greatly at times.
(Example when school lets out..(Bish)) But they would also
swing back the other way when they all went to bed.)
(This is just an example and im picking at Bish here).
(and yes 2 countrys would probably gang up on the 3rd but all
in all it would balance out the fight.)
A simple solution....
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you registered a new account on this board to type this crap
Ya, Fairz I see you as the kind that when the Nazi's came in to their country would join right in with the ol' goose stepin' crew then when the US came in and liberated you, you were the first on the street to start waving the american flag. In other words you switch to what ever side is winning.
We may be a small band but we stick together. It comes from being an AMERICAN some people like you will never under stand.
In other words talking to you is a waste of time, just like what George Carlin said about wrestling and I quote;
"I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time arguing about it."
When did the US liberate Baku, Azerbaijan?
Might want to check an atlas. Besides the Soviets "liberated" far more of Europe and paid a much heavier price then the US.
You opened a shades account just to prove how stupid you are?
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Originally posted by 4ACES
....Example when school lets out..(Bish)) But they would also
swing back the other way when they all went to bed.....
My God!...¿You mean Education System is unbalanced to the Bish too? I smell a conspiration here...
Happily I take your word about parental guidance. Only I suggest they send them to bed earlier... :D
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other when you threating that you cancel account. First is discussion, second is whine
Fariz you read me all wrong. I don't have an account in AH anymore. Therefore I can't threat with cancelling because I already did it, many months ago.
I just wanted to bring an outside comment to the discussion, based on the same thing I used to see during my 2 or so years with AH.
Why am I still here? I like to browse this board to see if I can help people with technical problems. I do read other discussions too (to much time on my hands..) :)
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Originally posted by Wotan
you registered a new account on this board to type this crap
When did the US liberate Baku, Azerbaijan?
Might want to check an atlas. Besides the Soviets "liberated" far more of Europe and paid a much heavier price then the US.
You opened a shades account just to prove how stupid you are?
Oh my.. you must have been raised futher in the hills then I was. IF you could under stand basic english I stated that "I see you " I know where Baku, Azerbaijan is located. Didnt say we were there. Just to quick to shoot folks down arent we. LOL
Generalization of how I review the comments of his post.
:p
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My Rook feeling:
No one else here baby.....
No one here to blame......
It is just you and me and the rain....
A salute to all the brave Rooks who are fiting so outnumbered.....althoght it is hard to see mates defending so well and bravely a base against an equal numbered force for half an hour, but suddenly, you see a new HUGE horde coming to help the enemies to push down our resistance, then as you see the horde coming you can guess that no one of the brave rooks are fiting there will remain in 10 minutes..and that all the effort is meangless....you can imagine the sad end. It is a little sad to see things like that. I could imagine that this is the kind of coordination you talk about: As you see that you cant take a base after 30 minutes then you blow the trompet and the hordes come for devastation.
I am proud about the few ones...wtg Rooks. This is not a whine for Bish or Knights....every1 flies where he likes....
Salute to all enemies and friendlies.
ZAMO 101 ESCUADRON DE COMBATE VIRTUAL
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Originally posted by KYridgeRunner
... It comes from being an AMERICAN some people like you will never under stand....
No, It doesn't. I guess you don't understand either... :p
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Originally posted by Pepe
No, It doesn't. I guess you don't understand either... :p
:rolleyes:
You just made my point thanks
:D
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You're welcome. After all, that's what a fellow Rooklander is for: teamwork. :D
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Originally posted by Pepe
No, It doesn't. I guess you don't understand either... :p
:rolleyes:
You just made my point thanks
:D
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So Zamo you're saying
its the blind...
leading the blonde?
If I'm getting ya correctly.
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Wilfrid!!!!!:p
You got it :)....smell the flowers while you can ;) .
Salute bud :) :) :)
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So tell me ye followers of "natural balance".
If things balance out naturally how'd you explain when it becomes to the point of disgustingly unnatural imbalance??
Economists stopped believeing in the "invisible hand" crap 150 years ago. Winning is the ultimate goal of competition. All the perkies and enjoyment of chasing down the few, broken resistances come along when you decide tag along with the winners. People don't follow their natural conscience. They follow the smell of victory.
Guess what happens then? Something like this.
Either the Bishops and the Knights having been doing a) some really secret active recruitment projects..... or b) newcomers look around, realize there's a country that gets always ganged on, and decide to not go there.
This is becoming intolerable. Stop talking "ebb and flow" crap, because the sea of AH smells of dead waters that stopped flowing for a long long time.
US Prime Time at West Coast(10:45 AM in the far east)
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Originally posted by Wotan
Might want to check an atlas. Besides the Soviets "liberated" far more of Europe and paid a much heavier price then the US.
Wrong choice of wording. Liberate implies that liberty was restored or provided. What the Soviets did was substitute one type of tyranny for another. Sort of like swapping heart disease for a brain tumor.
However, you are certainly correct that KYridgeRunner is clearly lacking in education and common sense. Not to mention utterly devoid class.
My regards,
Widewing
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Kweassa wrote:
So tell me ye followers of "natural balance".
If things balance out naturally how'd you explain when it becomes to the point of disgustingly unnatural imbalance??
Economists stopped believeing in the "invisible hand" crap 150 years ago.
Really? Not trying to be a contrarian, but I thought there was still quite a large group that believes in the "invisible hand", markets devoid of regulation, and unadulterated capitalism. Not saying that's what exists, but a lot of people certainly seem for it -- governments get elected on the basis of less interference and letting markets do their thing. Isn't that what privatization and deregulation of industries is all about? I only took a handful of economics courses at university (words are my thing, not numbers :) ) so if I'm in error, please enlighten me.
Anyhoo... I'm not necessarily arguing that there will be a "natural balance." It may or may not balance out, that's for the players to decide.
What I am suggesting is that imposing artificial barriers to entry (i.e. you can't select the team you want because it's "locked out") is very negative. While it's needed in some areas (uberplane availability, for instance) on a country level in the MA there's little tangible benefit to doing it, yet a considerable downside (alienating players).
If the player community feels like supporting a side, they will. If they feel like abandoning it, they'll do that, too. There's little reason for HTC to exercise control over it.
Once they're unleashed, online games are less a construct of the developers that create them then they are of the communities that inhabit them. The former is just code, the latter is the lifeblood and very essence of a game.
Cheers,
phaetn
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Originally posted by KYridgeRunner
Ya, Fairz I see you as the kind that when the Nazi's came in to their country would join right in with the ol' goose stepin' crew then when the US came in and liberated you, you were the first on the street to start waving the american flag. In other words you switch to what ever side is winning.
We may be a small band but we stick together. It comes from being an AMERICAN some people like you will never under stand.
In other words talking to you is a waste of time, just like what George Carlin said about wrestling and I quote;
"I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time arguing about it."
:p
Better break out the KY, KY!! You gonna need it, boy!
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Whiner
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Originally posted by KYridgeRunner
Ya, Fairz I see you as the kind that when the Nazi's came in to their country would join right in with the ol' goose stepin' crew then when the US came in and liberated you, you were the first on the street to start waving the american flag. In other words you switch to what ever side is winning.
We may be a small band but we stick together. It comes from being an AMERICAN some people like you will never under stand.
In other words talking to you is a waste of time, just like what George Carlin said about wrestling and I quote;
"I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time arguing about it."
:p
Its a strong insult, considering how many of my relatives died during the ww2
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I chose rooks initially because it's the better chess piece IMHO. I have never felt the need to change as I figured the sides would even out eventually. Now maybe they won't actually even out but here's the actual advantages to being on the smaller side.
1. Easier to find and engage enemies. I am constantly engaged in combat and I am consistently ranked in the top 100 for my kills/hr. For me kills/hr is a large portion of how I measure fun in this game.
2. Smaller more tightly knit groups. I am maybe not all that social but I can recognize the "regulars" and often hang around these guys and together we can mop up the skies. Taking on 8 or 10 enemies with 2 or 3 guys and winning is a riot!
3. The satisfaction of kicking bellybutton against terrible odds :p
4. You're a ROOK! I can't imagine being weenie Knight or Bishop. Everyone knows it takes balls of steel to fly Rooks :)
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Not saying that's what exists, but a lot of people certainly seem for it -- governments get elected on the basis of less interference and letting markets do their thing. Isn't that what privatization and deregulation of industries is all about?
and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what the consequences of it are. Properity in charts, diagrams and stock markets, but misery in real life... People have come to accept a lot of things that would be totally untolerable as "conditions of human life" were it 50 years ago after going in the global scale rendered resistances in each countries virtually helpless. But anyhow, that's not the real point..
that's for the players to decide.
This, is the real point.
What I am suggesting is that imposing artificial barriers to entry (i.e. you can't select the team you want because it's "locked out") is very negative. While it's needed in some areas (uberplane availability, for instance) on a country level in the MA there's little tangible benefit to doing it, yet a considerable downside (alienating players).
Why would it be negative? Why would it "alienate" anyone? The only real "alienating" done around here is by the MA folk being classifed as( as seen in Mandoble's joke) "Rooks" and "Non-Rooks".
The AH board has seen its shares of light hearted whinings and complaints about numbers before. However, it never was quite this serious. Almost every week or two people start complaining about the numbers, and they are all from the Rooks. Sure, its a possibility the people who joined the Rooks were born butt-heads and somehow gathered in the losing country. But my bet is on something serious is starting to show up, and people who are not involved(because they are not on the receiving side) are purposely looking down on it, trying to ignore it.
Complaints start piling up because players in the Rooks are starting to feel that it is unworthy to fly as a Rook at all, squads and players are in the exodus. Some squads which I've seen migrate among the three countries stopped coming to the Rooks at all. Because, the game and the gamers lost the sense of balance which cannot be re-established without artificial methods.
Mind you, this is a game. A method of play which tries to give all the participants the joy and fun of being in it, as much as being the winner. Nobody wants to play a rigged game. And thats exactly what is happening to AH - a rigged game where the perpetual losers try to find meaning in valiant resistance, then get tired of it, and start leaving the side.
You don't pit 9 baseball players against 3, nor do you pit adult players against little league and call it a "game". . Only after the sides are equal to some point it can be called a game where the losers will try their best to accept their loss graciously. As it is, each reset, each loss is becoming nothing but purely infuriating. How would anyone not be?
If the player community feels like supporting a side, they will. If they feel like abandoning it, they'll do that, too. There's little reason for HTC to exercise control over it.
This is very wrong. The choice is up to a person as long as it is within boundaries of gameplay which can provide mutual enjoyment. Step outside that boundary some referee has to smack people back inside - HTC are providers of the game, and they are also care takers of the game.
MA conditions are within their grasp and up to my knowledge they've never shown any signs of giving up on it. As long as the power is in their hands, the duties are also in their hands to see that the game they have created which all people enjoy with enthusiasm stay that way. If some issues turn up that would damage balance to the game, theu correct it - such as in the way N1K2s were reevaluated and the C-hogs were perked. Another issue has turned up, and it doesn't seem it would go away anytime soon.
Natural balance sets itself when the numbers are small, when people know almost every other people and their personal ties with each community members are strong enough to whisper in their conscience "balance the numbers.." AH has grown out of that stage. Because the numbers grew, so should management.
Once they're unleashed, online games are less a construct of the developers that create them then they are of the communities that inhabit them. The former is just code, the latter is the lifeblood and very essence of a game.
So, when the essence starts to stink, who's gonna set it right? Do rotten eggs just disappear in to thin air? Or does someone have to grab it and throw it out in the dumpster? The community was never just and never impartial. Before, the numbers in AH were homey and small that noone realized it. However, the people in the receiving side of this foul play are realizing it now once AH has grown up.
When that community starts intentionally ignoring the factors which constitue a fair and enjoyable game, who's gonna set it right? The community will right itself?? Like a camel can go through a needle's eye?
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re: "if ya don't like it..switch" (or something thereabouts) THAT is the most GUTless thing to do. I dont begrudge any long-time loyal country-members to be loyal to their fellow country-men...Those are the guys who have been leaving posts here to that effect. But what hacks me off are the WEASELS (who DONT leave posts to this issue) who state some BS reason for leaving Rookland when what they REALLY want is easier kills---Nits and Bish didnt get all these guys over past few months from WW2....I fly Rook..(and die damn near EVERY time..heeh) because these human-punching bags are my friends..and its pretty fluff'n shallow to bail and join the growing hoard that we must wade thru every night. ( Having said that, I spose it would be ok if ya only hit the other country)
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Tactically, the Rooks are screwed. So Urchin, explain to me if you are Bish, why would you attack Knight over Rook? You all know damn well what I am saying, OF COURSE you are going to attack the lesser country in terms of numbers, you're STUPID NOT TOO! I don't know when you fly but is 80% of the time, Bish and Knight on Rook.
This thread is now about Fariz, now littered with insults (the insults are a prime example of flared stupidity) towards each other.
These attitudes I thrive on shoot your Bish ad Knight tulips down with either myself or a couple of others defending and attacking Typhoid raids where the numbers were 15:2 to start. Eventually that attack blossomed to about 25Bish and 8 Rooks. We stomped it. DEAD in its tracks. Rooks do defend the best but when you only work with limited number, what do you do?
The thing I find funny is that after all of the stupid, waste of time, useless posts to these two separate threads (xBat's being the other one). One thing is the same. If it were Bish having the numbers problems they would have typed the same toejam about the same stuff. xBat was at least willing to step in front of the bullet. Funny thing is, he is a Bish. The rest would rather think that they are "the toejam" and put stupid comments on this thread that have no bearing at a thread .
As for the others it is easy to mock when you're kicking us while we are down, that I can live with for now. What I also enjoy is being outnumbered and shooting your tulips down.
Bring on the BS boys, I know you want to.
BUT, I am done with this. It's already hijacked, there is no validity to get bogged down with insults. So your comments will go unanswered.
Karaya2
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Its a tough problem, that has always been around in one form or another in all these mass fly sims...
calling for even teams works in smaller games (10-20 players) but doesn't in huge games such as AH. And squads tend to complicate things (one guy might swap sides to even things but unlikely he would if the squad won't)
So how can it be resolved...
If HT was to put a limit on max players per side, 1/3 of the arena capacity... Well, it would only be effective during peak times likely, and if peak times didn't come close to capacity it may not work then either.
Set a max per side based on current numbers in the arena... well then the squad whines would start. It could really mess with squad nights....
I really think that perhaps the last suggestion would work in time, I mean the players would get used to it, tho the time limit on side switching would have to be removed so that squads could reassemble asap.
I sent an email off to kesmai once upon a time about this very issue in AW... Well did I get a nasty gram in reply from Mage lol.
You can imagine what he said...
Incentives for players to join the outnumbered side... well this one has been beaten to death on the boards, and I've yet to see a suggestion that would work...
We know most players aren't concerned with perks, perhaps a tiny percentage would switch if perk modifiers were in place.
I've seen other online games give increased ammo effectiveness and armor to the outnumbered.. but errm of course that would be unacceptable in AH (hmm why did I even type that)
Free perk rides for the outnumbered.. well if perhaps the gangbangers didn't recieve the regular amount of perks for killing them....
Here's a little idea... the outnumbered team gets the new Tiger, and the osty. Everyone else doesn't... well that wouldn't make a whole lotta difference...
Guys if you want side balancing.. and I am not against it at all, yas just have to come up with an idea that works!
Hey... how about $.25 discount per day if you fly for the outnumbered team!! lol... mebbe HT would send me a nasty gram for that one +)
SKurj
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"Enlisting" is one solution.
In the last days of a month, when a new tour is about to start, there should be a system which asks players in which country they will fight next tour. Squads will be enlisted as a whole - the squad CO having the vote, and non-squad affiliated players individually.
The choices will be open up to a certain point, but when the enlisted numbers exceed a certain given balance status(for example, lets say one country becomes over 40% of total registered people), the country which the most people have enlisted in will be out of the choice. If it becomes unbalanced that the total enlistments of the highest two countries are over 75% in total numbers, the only choice for a squad or individual would be to enlist as the lowest country in numbers.
The enlistment will not be withdrawn, and you will be confined to that country for the tour. There could also be some variable options, for instance, taking into account the time zones.. the time zone will be divided into four largest time zones - Far east, European, US East and US West, and perhaps the balance ratio can follow according to time zones. When you say you mainly fly in US West time zones, the restriction in Enlistment choices can be set according to the registered numbers of US West time zone players only.
Anyhow, there are a lot of possibilities. Downsides and advantages. However, one thing is certain, balance will never set itself, and the following situation IS NOT GOING TO NATURALLY FLUCTUATE. AH has grown out of the stage where one~two squads rotating per tour can effect numbers balance. There are people hoarding to one side(or, neglecting one side) for a reason, and they are going to stay there.
Unless the reasons are eliminated(which is impossible), the only option left is to continue mocking the Rooks and gangbang/reset them at will, and let these hostilities between countries grow... or, admit there is a problem, and we need help with that. Because the community is unable to correct itself, we need help from the people who have enough power to correct us - HTC.
And that is exactly what we Rooks request. We need help from the HTC.
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Heh I saw this problem already 6 months ago. IMO one of the best suggestions to balance the sides would be score multiplier for the smallest country. Make that score increase in direct proportion to the numbers advantage of the biggest enemy.
Many players in MA play for score.. So that would mean the most ambitious players would switch and do a good thing because of thier own greedyness. IMO it would work great.
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Hussein you're a smart fellow but they're still gonna bomb you to oblivion. I'll enjoy watching the spectacle from CNN :D
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Last evening on channel 1, I followed a discussion about the lopsided numbers. At the time, there were 138 Bish, 157 Knits and just 52 Rooks. One Knit going by the handle of “http”, made the outrageous comment that the Rooks were milk-running!
How absurd can such thinking get? We had only enough people to have no more than 3 at every field we owned. Five minutes later, I tackle a huge gaggle of Knits attacking our basically undefended field (there were two defenders counting me), A32, and I blasted 5 Knits out of the sky (landing the kills too), the last of which was Mr. http…. Any more comments on milk-running there http?
It certainly appears that many who are afraid of encountering a REAL fight, gravitate to countries with the big numbers. Rather than be at the pointy end of the spear, they show up in the second or third wave looking to vulch for kills, instead of actually earning them in even-up fights. This gangbang mentality is growing, and it grows proportionally to the increasing population of Noobs.
I had a somewhat similar experience at A24 last night. Along with 4 other Rooks, we went over to pork the strats to relieve pressure on our nearest field. I took an La-5 with two light bombs. I used those to kill fuel and ammo bunkers. There wasn’t much opposition, only a Spitfire and La-7 attempted to get up for defense. I killed the Spit shortly after he took off. Coming in from the nearest Bish field was a horde of fighters, probably 10-15 of them. Most of them refused to come down as long as we remained unengaged. Some hearty soul in an IL-2 wandered in and was dispatched with a single pass. Menawhile, several Bish began taking off from the field, with just two of us remaining, it got real busy. The other Rook with me got hit, but smacked 2 or 3 Bish before they got to him. At this time, the ladies in the high-flying Mustangs and 190s felt safe enough to come down, after all, I was the only Rook left flying. Well, I shot down another three of the Bish gentlemen, but was down to just 8 rounds of cannon ammo and not enough gas to get safely away, much less RTB. So, when a La-7 attempted to make a run at me, I decided to stay. 30 seconds later the Lavochkin was running for cover trailing smoke, but I now had empty mags. So, I weaved and turned and dodged the attacks (meanwhile another Rook showed up, taking some pressure off of me), but finally ran out of gas. I was unable to avoid a pair of Mustangs while maneuvering in a glide and took damage forcing me to bail. On the ground I counted 17 enemy icons, 17!!! Moreover, there was not a Rook in sight.
Of those I shot down, and was eventually shot down by, I recognized only one name in the message buffer. Noobs with a gangbang mentality. Fight in hordes, never engage if there is the least bit of risk. I don’t fault them for being timid, the learning curve is steep. It’s no fun learning this game while being hammered continuously. So, for them it is easier to fight against the Rooks, rather than with them.
This is why Rook numbers are low. These Noobs won’t fly with a country that has low numbers, because there is nohigh alt horde to hide in. Worse, if they fly Rook, most of the time they will be defending against larger numbers of fighters with those advantages of altitude and E. Again, I really can’t blame them for doing this.
I have seen this relating to my squadron, where Noobs fly with us for a day, see the lopsided numbers and promptly announce that they are switching to Knit or Bish. Therefore, Rook numbers are unlikely to grow, and the disparity in numbers will continue to get worse unless HTC intervenes, or some squadrons rotate to the Rook side. Noobs don’t want to fly here simply because they spend all of their time running for their lives. That’s no fun for them. Gangbanging fields is relatively safe and they can gain a little experience too. Until something significant is done, this will only spiral further out of control.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by 4ACES
There are ways to balance the arena and it should be considered.
1st. Take the rotating squads and balance the arena.
(They shouldn't mind since this will only be for a limited time).
2nd. Limit movement between the countrys to once a month or
once a week and all movements have to be approved by AH
staff. (Submit a transfer request).
(In other word make someone work once a week at AH
and only allow transfers that would maintain the balance.)
3rd. Put new players in all 3 countrys equally.
simple solution....
4th. Have HTC reward people that stay in country. Rotaters (and I use the term loosely) could move around just like they do now. Folks that chose to stay in country long term would be rewarded...perks. Think positive reenforcement :D .
Been doin this crap a long time. Traditionally, arena odds will stablize if given a chance. The constant 'rotation' of squads insures that this 'chance' will be a long time coming. Number 1 is what the Nomads did in AW. They would move daily, depending upon arena odds. Almost always to the country at the bottom of the odds barrel. Just a thought :) .
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Not saying that's what exists, but a lot of people certainly seem for it -- governments get elected on the basis of less interference and letting markets do their thing. Isn't that what privatization and deregulation of industries is all about?
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and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what the consequences of it are. Properity in charts, diagrams and stock markets, but misery in real life... People have come to accept a lot of things that would be totally untolerable as "conditions of human life" were it 50 years ago after going in the global scale rendered resistances in each countries virtually helpless. But anyhow, that's not the real point..
I believe we're on the same side on this issue, Kweassa. What I am suggesting is that the "invisible hand" theory of economics is hardly a dead one, as a lot of people seem to be proponents of it (or at least of less interference). I in no way endorsed it. Hey, I'm a European living in Canada, so I'm all for taxation and the redistribution of wealth.
In that vein, there's an interesting article in last week's (10.20.02) New York Times Magazine about the death of the American middle class interregnum. "For Richer," by Princeton prof Paul Krugman, argues that the US is effectively back in the "Gilded Age" of the robber barons where a very small minority with wealth are the ones getting richer (and towards whom political agendas and economic policies are targeted), while the middle class is generally stagnant, and the poor are poorer than they were in the 50s, 60s and 70s. He suggests the period of general equality (and prosperity!) that came out of the New Deal and had an effect for decades is now long gone. While America is, indeed, the richest nation on earth with the highest GDP per capita, he argues, the median individual's standard of living isn't as high as those of other countries with more socialized policies because the per capita numbers are skewed by a small minority with great wealth. It largely depends on what one uses for metrics in the "quality of life" argument, I'm sure. I think there was to have been a rebuttal to the article by a conservative in this past weekend's edition.
As for the MA and HTC, they did provide a level playing field: anyone can pick one of three countries, and all the same equipment is available to all. To use your baseball analogy, I'd say that they provided the field, the rules, and even the bats, uniforms and balls. Everyone is playing fair ball. What's out of whack are player salaries, and one team has a depth of resources that a smaller franchise doesn't.
But in AH, everyone is a free agent. If there really is a perceived void, and players want to address it, they certainly have the means at their disposal to do so. They created the problem, and just as easily can fix it.
Online communities aren't stagnant, they ebb and flow, and the more a company tries to "direct" the player experience, the less satisfied the player base will be. Let them create their own experience, for that's the secret to any game's longevity. The more restrictions that are in place, the more likely people are to log off and the less likely they'll be willing to contribute to the community in a meaningful way. That eventually leads to dead arenas and players going to other venues.
Trust me, having lots of players is an absolute blessing. Many developers would love to have this problem! Look at something like WB right now -- it's so empty that the community is positively feeding on itself and any interloper that happens in their midst is positively crucified. Hardly the sign of a healthy community.
AH, on the other hand, has a vibrant community with all the healthy rivalry, bickering and tanting that that imples. :D
With all due respect, Kweassa, (and I really do mean to afford it to you!) I think the idea of "enlistment" and not being able to change sides at will, or the idea of a squad's C.O. "forcing" participation within a country without the player having the option to change that without leaving the squad is disastrous. Players should have more choices, not less of them. Artificial balancing is a very slippery slope, and sooner or later there will be so many levers, pulleys and gears all in the name of "balancing" that even trying to control them all will be impossible and "tweaking" this while at the same time "breaking" that will have a seriously detrimental effect on the game as a whole.
All that said, I can completely understand your frustration. I've been in games/countries/squads that are on the downside, and it's no fun. But it will change. It doesn't make the game rotten by any means.
What the Rooks need (insert country here, its subject to change) is some squads to move over en masse. Maybe the others are having too much fun gang-banging at the moment. That will wear off eventually. In this enviroment, a country rivalry is an excellent thing, even if it's a squeak being the underdog. But there are lots of people who actually enjoy that kind of challenge: Find them, and get organized. When the country rivalries are lost, that's when the game will really suffer.
AH is exactly the same for a Rook as it is for a Bishop or a Knight, only the icon is different. It's the players' game, let them do with it what they will.
Again, let me stress that I'm non-partisan in this. I'm neither bashing nor defending the Rooks. For whatever reason, I've never paid that much attention to nationality in AH, perhaps because I'm not in a squad any more. I'll tell you what, though, from now on I'll only fly Rook until the numbers are more equitable. And if any of my buddies are online, I'll ask them to join me. (Careful, we may be more of a liability than a help!) :D
I've been in AH since the Alpha, and write about flight sims and computer games for a living. That's not to say my opinion is any more valid than yours, only that it's based on a lot of experience, is well informed, and I've seen exactly this sort of situation many times before. Next year, the flavour will be different. It's not a game buster. What I want is for Aces High to be the best product that it can be, and artificially limiting the player experience in the MA is not the way to do it. Frankly, I'd rather see HTC spend the time on in-game development like increased strat or more aircraft rather than tilting at windmills in the name of arena management.
My $.03.
Cheers,
phaetn
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(http://members.rogers.com/phaetn/images/ah-roster.jpg)
Admittedly this is during an off-peak time, but Rooks seem to be doing fine here both in terms of numbers and certainly in number of fields.
Cheers,
phaetn
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I was "borne" a Rook and I'll stick with 'em till the bitter end. I actually take great pride in being a Rook when I see the incredible results we sometimes generate. Sometimes winning the war in the MA (until bish and knit realize what is going on and consentrate their efforts on us) with less that half the pilots ONE of our opposing nations have. I don't know ... like another Rook said in another thread: I'm glad I'm not a nit or a bish, they don't stand a chance against these odds!
Feels nice to be part of an Elite ... ;)
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"Feels nice to be part of an Elite"
And an Elite we are. Try looking on how the countries do in various planes vs the other 2 countries. AH Statspage (http://www.hitechcreations.com/scores/statsframe.html)
As a totally "random" example we can take the Macchi 202:
The Knights have 300 kills and have been killed 480 times in the C.202 against all countries. (K/D=0.625)
The Bishops have 265 kills and have been killed 506 times in the C.202 against all countries. (K/D=0.524) :p
and finally......damdadaaaa
The Rooks have 474 kills and have been killed 349 times in the C.202 against all countries. (K/D=1.358) :eek:
No, it's not fake, the stats really are like that. Off course there is a logically explanation to it, which people who have been following the kill buffer will know.
To save you the time, its not me. I have less than 20 kills in it.
__________________
Ltn. Snefens
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
My AH homepage (http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/index2.htm)
(http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/209.gif)
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Number 1 is what the Nomads did in AW. They would move daily, depending upon arena odds. Almost always to the country at the bottom of the odds barrel. Just a thought :) .
So you are admittings that the Mads did something right?:}:}:}
And by the way . Only the bottom of the barrel would have us .:}
Nomad +Silat :}
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Well as a rook, I have periodically become discouraged over the imbalance of numbers. However, when I first started the game, I was put on the knights automatically. Since many of my old mates from AW were on knights I stayed there. The problem I ran into is that on off prime hours, I had trouble finding bad guys at which to shoot. Bish-knight fights were far less common than knight-rook fights. Seemed the bish and rook teams just didn't fight each other much. Granted, this could have been a matter of coincidence but... BUT when my squad switched to rooks I happily found myself in a target rich environment. Kills are earned more now and therefore that much more rewarding...landing a mission is a little sweeter as a rook. As a rook once you've finished a kill or fight, you have to be even more quick to size up your circumstances because you are more likely to get bounced than a numbers superior bish/knight pilot would. You are also less likely to have help arrive simply because there are less rooks in the air. I'm not saying rooks are better pilots man for man... not what I mean so please don't go there. I'm saying most of the elements of the game have a bigger thrill for me as a rook.
I also feel however that rooks need to fly more missions....even quick hit jabo raids.. anything. Missions that are quick to organize and get off the ground so we don't have any of our precious few pilots wasting time on the ground. My squad flew a mission yesterday and had many non-squaddies join..it was a blast and we took a moderately defended base.
There are those on knights and bishs that love the gangbang mentality..that thrive in it. Heck I've seen high knight tempests and 262's cherrying fights where they had vastly superior numbers...I just don't see the sport or fun in that. If you're a knight or bish that wants to put a little more thrill/edge in your game, and you're not tied down due to squad restrictions, come on over to rooks... better yet, bring your whole squad! I can't say you will turn the tide in rooks favor, but I can promise you'll fly a little more on the edge of your seat, and you'll be much appreciated. :)