Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: GEO1 on October 22, 2002, 01:41:28 PM
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I really like the Hog, but I want to know the main diffrences between the F4U-1, F4U-1C, and F4U-1D.
How do they compare in performance, speed, turning, etc?
I like a plane to be fast, good guns, yet able to turn a little if needed. I have seen a F4U come in on my P51D and catch me and out turn me. I am wanting to know how he did that???
Thanks!
Geo1 :)
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Biggest differences:
F4U-1 -- early version. Can't carry as much ord as the other variants.
F4U-1C -- carries 4x20mm hi-zookas. Packs a hell of a punch.
F4U-1D -- standard 6x.50 US armament. Can carry a decent complement of bombs/rockets (2x1k and 8 rocks I believe).
All of them have pretty lousy rear visibility, and they gulp fuel. However, they are extremely effective dive-bomb platforms, and will turn relatively decently.
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how do you talk
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If you want to know the key differences between the types, as well as get some tips on how to fly them, look here:
http://www.telusplanet.net/~dsoder/models.htm
This is one of the first sites I encountered when I joined this forum looking for info. Very helpful, IMO.
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This is an extremely helpful page. Being rather new at this, I think they should put a link to this page in the help files!
Thanks a million for taking the time to do this!
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The F4U-1 is a bit faster than the F4U-1C/D, it also carries a lot more fuel, and it probably the best corsair for a strictly fighter mission. The D has better accelleration and climb, and seems to handle better at low speeds. The C is basicly a D that has much bigger guns.
Flying any of the corsairs at under 200mph is difficult. At those speeds, a snap roll is all but instant. Learning to control the plane at those speeds isn't easy but can be exceptionally rewarding.
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F4U-1 is fastest of the three(excluding the F4U-4), but it climbs very slow. It takes a lot of time to gain just 10k feet altitude, and also takes a lot of time to regain lost speed and altitude. Differences in maneuverability are only marginal, but F4U pilots do seem to prefer the -1 as in sometimes those marginal advantages can mean life or death.
F4U-1D carries impressive loads of air-to-ground weaponery and climbs the best of the three. It is decently fast as a fighter and the only handful unperked monstrosities will catch it. It is also a bit more stable at low speeds than the other rwo corsairs.
The F4U-1C is a 4x20mm version and for some reason, and after the FM has been revised, there are subsequent penalties due to its increased weight. It will handle more poorly than the -1D or the -1.
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I've been flying the 1D lately and they have a nasty habit of going into unrecoverable death spirals. I died four times last night to this problem. I wasn't sure what was causing it at first so I went offline and am able to reproduce it some of the time. Fly wings level between 200-300mph and snap roll to begin a split-S. As soon as your nose points toward the groud you start spinning out of control and i've never been able to recover from this. Not sure it it happens with with other hogs or not.
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Bf109-e4 not the dangerous of the 109's?
I took on a hoard of Tempests with it shooting down 3 out of the 4 the last one running back to base now whos dangerous?:D
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You managed to shoot down 3 Tempests with the two 60rpg MG/FF on an Emil?
Were these guys AFK?
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Originally posted by Mooja
I've been flying the 1D lately and they have a nasty habit of going into unrecoverable death spirals. I died four times last night to this problem. I wasn't sure what was causing it at first so I went offline and am able to reproduce it some of the time. Fly wings level between 200-300mph and snap roll to begin a split-S. As soon as your nose points toward the groud you start spinning out of control and i've never been able to recover from this. Not sure it it happens with with other hogs or not.
heh, First thing, a snap roll is when you cause one wing to stall before the other, which causes a VERY fast roll. Just rolling the plane is an aileron roll. (If you're using a snap roll, you're already asking for trouble)
You're pulling too hard on the stick, if you do that, the F4U will do what it always wants to do, spin. While a spin in a fight will put you at a big disadvantage, it's not unrecoverable.
The toughest part about flying the f4u is getting to the edge of controlled flight, without losing control of the plane. It takes a lot of practice, and a precise rudder control. If you don't have decent(as in on a joystick or pedals) rudder control, the f4u is probably a plane to skip.
It was called the ensign eliminator for a good reason. :D
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Originally posted by Mooja
As soon as your nose points toward the groud you start spinning out of control and i've never been able to recover from this. Not sure it it happens with with other hogs or not.
It happens with all the hogs, sometimes the spins are impossible to get out of before you take a dirt nap. The P-51 will do it also if you have fuel in the aux tank.
The P-51s and F4-Us are probably the two hardest fighters to handle, which is unfortunate since many newbies are drawn to them by their famous reputations.
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well have to say i like the F4u-1 its not a attack plane per say but its main advantige is (all versions) speed just keep it up and u will learn the rest through expericance if u keep it around 300 it will be ur best friend below that it will be ur grave
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Originally posted by Montezuma
It happens with all the hogs, sometimes the spins are impossible to get out of before you take a dirt nap. The P-51 will do it also if you have fuel in the aux tank.
The P-51s and F4-Us are probably the two hardest fighters to handle, which is unfortunate since many newbies are drawn to them by their famous reputations.
Just from personal experience, the 'impossible to recover' spins the Hog is notorious for, are a heck of a lot easier to pull out of if you dump flaps.
To me, that doesnt quite make sense ( but I have a very limited understanding of aerodynamics) but it does seem to help a great deal.
Chop throttle, throw out as much flap as you can, and either simply unload the stick, or nose down and oposite rudder, depending on what sort of spin you find yourself in.
Can someone who knows about this stuff explain why that happens? is it because with those huge flaps hanging down, there is simply too much drag for the plane to continue spinning?
Blue
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I "think" that reason dumping flaps helps in the recover of a spin is due to the lower airspeed required to produce lift when flaps are out. Usually getting into a spin in a Hog is becuase the left wing has stalled, not enough lift to maintain controlled flight, I think the flaps help in this respect.
As for their differences.
F4U is an E fighter, plain and simple, it can B&Z the T&B'ers and T&B most of the B&Z'ers. You do have to fight with caution, maintain as much speed and altitude as possible over your opponent. Bad SA will get you killed quicker than snot.
IMHO the -1 rapes the -D&-C in flight performance. It does have the ability to handle slow stall fights against the other Hogs and ride the edge longer before departing flight it's only downfall is climbrate.
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heh, Innominate, yes a snap roll. I always get a kick out of the steadfasts who defend attack/fighter planes that are not able to do standard evasive maneuvers. It's always the pilots fault cause "they're not flying it right." A rock makes a good fighter too just as long as you don't try to fly it.
If you feel the spin is recoverable perhaps you like to tell me how, maybe provide a short film clip? You've obviously never experienced this reversing death spiral if you think you can do it with flaps and aerilons. All planes tend to perform better for you when you learn to fly them on thier edge. I do thank you for the response but you wrote three paragraphs and managed not to say a single thing.
AcId, that's a good point about the left wing stalling. That would indicate the direction you snap is cruical. I tend to be right handed for some reason maybe because that's the direction the plane wants to go naturally.
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The trick to the stall is NOT TO GET IN ONE!!! LOL!!! I fly the hog (1D) most of the time. It does everything ya need to... bomb, BnZ, and yes Turn and Burn!. As you start getting slow in the hog, drop a notch of flaps. The slower you go, the more flap you use. I've had the hog down to 150, and still was fighting IN CONTROL! You must be easy on the stick, but it will stay in the air. This suprises alot of people, and you can pick up a kill getting the enemy to stall. Of course ya don't want to do this with enemies all around :) use the speed and accelaration to get away to regain your advantage. Best of all, whan ya kill someone with your hog, they don't call you names for killing them with a "dweeb" plane :) LOL!!!
Maddog Joe
(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)
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Originally posted by Mooja
heh, Innominate, yes a snap roll. I always get a kick out of the steadfasts who defend attack/fighter planes that are not able to do standard evasive maneuvers. It's always the pilots fault cause "they're not flying it right." A rock makes a good fighter too just as long as you don't try to fly it.
If you feel the spin is recoverable perhaps you like to tell me how, maybe provide a short film clip? You've obviously never experienced this reversing death spiral if you think you can do it with flaps and aerilons. All planes tend to perform better for you when you learn to fly them on thier edge. I do thank you for the response but you wrote three paragraphs and managed not to say a single thing.
The corsair is most definitly able to do everything you've mentioned. It is, however a touchy plane. Your plane isn't going to recover itself from a snap roll, it's going to spin unless you stop it.
Perhaps you should post a film of what exactly you were doing. I can't manage to produce a spin I can't recover from. Also, what do you use as your rudder control?
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1-D is my ride and I can't remember getting into a spin I couldn't recover from. Unless I was on the deck :D In fact I can't remember the last time I spun her. Light touch and riding the stall horn is the ticket. That and time in the seat.
51 is a different story for me, done a few face plants from decent altitude stall fighting...
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Originally posted by poopster
51 is a different story for me, done a few face plants from decent altitude stall fighting...
Just curious as why you would stall fight in a P51? The 51 is more A BnZ type plane or Energy Fighter! Stall fighting it, you would expect a spin.
TC
Damned
http://www.damned.org
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TC it's this way..
All out in the world all by yourself and a lone con comes in..
Might be co-alt, might have some alt on you.
He might be flying a Pony, a 190, a Jug who knows. But you see it's just you and him..
..all alone.
Any one on one of similar a/c's will end up a slow knife fight sooner or later regardless of what that particular fighter is "good" at.
In that position, the ablility to fly your a/c slow, on the edge of a stall is the difference between living and dying...
Knife fighting in E fighters is where "touch" comes in, your on the edge, and falling over the edge is at least a full blown stall if not a spin.
If you can fly the Pony on the very edge of controlability, you'll surprise quite a few "turners" in the process.
But you pick the spot when it's to your advantage to do so.
I don't fly them enough to be proficient at slow speed handling..
Talk to Rude, he knows his Pony.
Practice doing an immelman in a Corsair with an entrance speed of 300 with wep, on coming out on top, do a second immelman when your speed reaches about 190. You'll come over the top at about sixty without flaps from the second immelman. Takes a heap of rudder to keep it from snapping. And it takes practice.
Try getting the entrance speed to the second immelman as slow as you can. Get good at it.
Slow speed handling WILL come in handy. And fits nicely into your bag of tricks ;)
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Originally posted by poopster
TC it's this way..
All out in the world all by yourself and a lone con comes in..
Might be co-alt, might have some alt on you.
He might be flying a Pony, a 190, a Jug who knows. But you see it's just you and him..
..all alone.
Any one on one of similar a/c's will end up a slow knife fight sooner or later regardless of what that particular fighter is "good" at.
In that position, the ablility to fly your a/c slow, on the edge of a stall is the difference between living and dying...
Knife fighting in E fighters is where "touch" comes in, your on the edge, and falling over the edge is at least a full blown stall if not a spin.
If you can fly the Pony on the very edge of controlability, you'll surprise quite a few "turners" in the process.
But you pick the spot when it's to your advantage to do so.
I don't fly them enough to be proficient at slow speed handling..
Talk to Rude, he knows his Pony.
Practice doing an immelman in a Corsair with an entrance speed of 300 with wep, on coming out on top, do a second immelman when your speed reaches about 190. You'll come over the top at about sixty without flaps from the second immelman. Takes a heap of rudder to keep it from snapping. And it takes practice.
Try getting the entrance speed to the second immelman as slow as you can. Get good at it.
Slow speed handling WILL come in handy. And fits nicely into your bag of tricks ;)
I think your trying to teach me something here?
I appreciate it, I am just another newbie on AH,
I have no idea on earth what I am doing, but I am sure you fine people will be of great use to me,
I appreciate your lil training lecture there poopster, don't know what I could have done with out it. Thank you!
:rolleyes:
Dang I Need To Go Practice
:rolleyes:
TC aka TequilaChaser
of the Damned
http://www.damned.org
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I've been a 190 driver the past month or so, and I've been thinking about ranging into F4Us for jabo missions and just to generally broaden my portfolio of flyable planes. Can anyone tell me what the differences are between the two as far as handling is concerned. I know they're somewhat similar and both described as E-fighters.
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Wow sorry TC, forgive me..you asked....its the help pages..
Silly me..
So the question is then, why are you here ??
It must not have been a serious question in the first place..
So again, the question is, why are you here ??
The help section is for help, that's why I posted in the first place.
Wanna screw around, come over to the main board, I'll join you.
If not, don't ask questions here and not expect to get an answer..
That's what this section of the board is for..
If you have something to contribute I'm all for seeing your view on things..everyone has a different take on things..
Looking at your stats, you do some time in the Pony and the 1-D doing fairly well, so what's your take ?? This is the help section remember ??
If you don't have something to contribute, have no questions you'd like input on..
Why are you here ??
Want to learn how to quote ??
Fancy they're very similar. Flying the 190 you're used to getting close, the 50's just shred in close :D Have very little time in 190's here, flew 190's exclusively for years in WB. If you like 190's, I think you'll love the F4U.
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Originally posted by poopster:
Wow sorry TC, forgive me..you asked....its the help pages.. Silly me..
-Your apology is noted & accepted :D
So the question is then, why are you here ??
It must not have been a serious question in the first place..
-I come here often to get the views of others, I was curious as to why you would stall fight a 51, I got my answer. We all have came across a situation where one fight- similar aircraft - would end up in a knife fight. Your answer/opinion/comment was one I took as something you do often, ie...stallfight the 51. my bad!
So again, the question is, why are you here ??
-Done told you!
The help section is for help, that's why I posted in the first place.
-Thanks For Posting! :D
Wanna screw around, come over to the main board, I'll join you.
-No thank you, you are not my type! btw can you actually screw around on messageboards? am curious to know?
If not, don't ask questions here and not expect to get an answer..
That's what this section of the board is for..
-No Kidding
If you have something to contribute I'm all for seeing your view on things..everyone has a different take on things..
-I contribute when I feel a need, alot of others here do a fine job, including you,
Looking at your stats, you do some time in the Pony and the 1-D doing fairly well, so what's your take ?? This is the help section remember ??
-I don't bother with stats, they don't tell the whole story. btw.... what is your AH handle, it's not poopster, just looked and you haven't flown in the last 3 tours.
If you don't have something to contribute, have no questions you'd like input on..
-I had a question you answered it, enough said.
Why are you here ??
Want to learn how to quote ??
-I am hear to make people like you wonder,"why is he here?" ;)
now since you asked, my take would be, even though you come across a similar type AC...all be it a 51, F4U, FW, Tiffy etc I would still strive to bleed the "E" from my opponent, while still maintaining my "E". I would not ( try not to) give in and allow my "E" state to deminish below that of what would cause me to stall. Unless of course if I was in the vertical, going over the top...etc... I would try to work my oponent to cause him to bleed his "E" with different manuevers, sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. Most of the time 3 of his countrymen jump in and mess the whole thing up, thats the main arena for you, LOL.
I have opinions, questions, comments, just like everyone else, but don't jump down my throat with your BS, and we will get along fine.
I made a freakin comment to your post to me, I guess it nerved you, now I apologize to you for coming off so arrogant.
Sorry For The BS between me and poopy in the Help & Training Section.
Most of the people that reads these boards, know who I am, and also know how much I enjoy helping others. Even though it might not show on the boards, and as for this thread, I didn't ask for help, I asked why would you stall fight a 51?!
Scratch that......alot know me...and those who don't will........( soon as I get Wldthing's cheat code majiggy a workin! hehe kiddin of course) He flys a 51 pretty darn well!!!
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No TC poopster has never flown a sortie in AH. After coming back to this board from a few years ago it told me nopoop was already here, and I couldn't use the name..
So had to pick another..
Sorry for the outburst, I thought yours was a legitimate question and answered it as such. You have 12 posts, I thought you were new to the game.
So few people fly the F4U as a fighter, this thread caught my eye. The vast majority jabo with it, I like to see guys flying it as a fighter..
The :rolleyes: in the response just got me going.
My apoligies <-- one day I'll learn to spell that word
I find K/D, K/S, K/T and hit percentage pretty accurate in "seeing" how one goes about flying. Can be gamed, yes, but difficult to game them all. Hit percentage tells alot all by itself in it's specific relation to the rest, but that's a whole new discussion :)
BTW you CAN screw around on the Main board, but you wake up the next morning sore in unusual places, speaking from personal experience..
We now, both TC and I, without further ediu, return you to the Help and Support Forum..
Thank you for your patience..
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well, all i have to say is i find that the best way of killing people unexpectadly is "rope-a-dope" of course u have to be doin 300+, but still it always throws someone off.
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Too bad feed isn't playing AH anymore.
feed was probably the best of the Corsair pilots ever in AH, in the top of the top class with guys like Whels or Cav(more famous for his hellcat with Math.. :D ).