Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Curval on October 23, 2002, 09:11:25 AM
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Remember the scene from the film "Full Metal Jacket" when the DI was giving a lecture on marksmanship? He used the example of the Kennedy assasination and a few others to show how good the "snipers" were in those particular cases. He then went on to say that they were that good because they were Marines.
I wonder if this is the case now? I would imagine that the FBI are going through service records to match against a profile as part of their investigation.
(and I'm not trying to be funny...just thinking out loud)
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I bet you could find all info you need for succesfull sniping from web and books like checking the distance from telephone poles and wind from how much trees bend etc.
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..took 5 secs... http://home.swipnet.se/longrange/art_of_sniping.htm
http://home.swipnet.se/longrange/wind_and_humidity_factors.htm
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Nope!
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The French have said that they have a Marksman Awol in the U.S.
but I have nothing against them.
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Last I heard it was 100 yards.
That is nothing. I could hit a man sized target every shot rapid fire with my Colt target match at that distance. (AR-15 match rifle in .223) I am not a particularly good shot with a rifle since I do not practice much.
Anyone who served in the Marines or in the Army should be able to do that.
Maybe if he where taking 500plus yard shots, I would think he was maybe a trained sniper.
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Originally posted by Staga
I bet you could find all info you need for succesfull sniping from web and books like checking the distance from telephone poles and wind from how much trees bend etc.
Yea, but getting info off the net and pulling a trigger on an actual weapon from long distance is like comparing "apples and oranges". With that logic I could build a nuclear bomb from the net...the info is there , but that doesn't mean I could actually do it. In fact, if you saw my recent attempts at plumbing you would be absolutely sure I couldn't do it.
Monk...you seem very sure...why?
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100yards is not long distance at all Curval.
This guy could just as easily be a hunter as he could be some average joe schmoe range shooter.
-SW
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I'm not sure, I hope he is not.
800-1000 yrds is standard for Marine Scout/Snipers.
Anything under 500 yrds, doubt it.
From what I heard, he left casings at one scene. Scout/Sniper?.......Doubt it also.
Leaving notes and the sort, also not the stye of Marine Scout/Snipers.
But, on the other hand Quantico, is just around the corner.
Na......He's just a scrub
Im praying he is not.
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The Fascination with this fruitcakes choice of weapon is amazing to me. He is just another ted bundy. The use of firearms hardly bestows any special quality on him.
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Originally posted by Curval
Yea, but getting info off the net and pulling a trigger on an actual weapon from long distance is like comparing "apples and oranges". With that logic I could build a nuclear bomb from the net...the info is there , but that doesn't mean I could actually do it. In fact, if you saw my recent attempts at plumbing you would be absolutely sure I couldn't do it.
Everyone and his cousin knows how to shoot, for longer ranges you need some additional info how to correct your aiming.
With assault rifles we shot to 150meters and with rifles up to 300meters in shooting ranges.
Got shooters "golden badge" and three extra day offs when I was serving my time. It's pretty easy to hit human shaped target straight to the chest from 150meters (164yd) with assault rifle with open iron sights.
Oh btw our targets gave few seconds time to aim, you lost the "window" and you were done :)
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From 'The German Sniper 1914-1945'
A: Matthias Hetzenauer eastern front 1943 to end of war 345 certified hits
B: Sepp Allerberger eastern front 1942 to end of war 257 certified hits
C: Helmut Wirnsberger eastern front 1942, injured, spent time as instructor 64 certified hits
At what range could you hit the following targets without fail?
Head, A: up to approx. 400 meters
B: up to approx. 400 meters
C: up to approx. 400 meters
Breast, A: up to approx. 600 meters
B: up to approx. 400 meters
C: up to approx. 400 meters
Standing Man, A: 700-800 meters
B: up to approx. 600 meters
C: up to approx. 600 meters
It aslo goes on to say German snipers learned much of their trade by the way Russian snipers worked.
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What Monk said, doesn't look very "pro". My bet is it's one of your gun totting Army wanabees .
Hope they catch him fast.
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
100yards is not long distance at all Curval.
This guy could just as easily be a hunter as he could be some average joe schmoe range shooter.
-SW
At first I was wondering where I had said 100 yards...then I read the other posts...
I agree...if 100 yards was the farthest range then pretty much anyone could hit a person. We used to shoot from a minimum of 100 meters, not yards...and that wasn't too tough.
Sure..he COULD be a hunter..or just a militia type. My money is on someone who is trained though...not necessarily a trained sniper (or scout)..but this guy isn't stupid. I'm willing to bet he is ex-military.
You guys seem to "protest too much"...like "No way could a MARINE do this"...but, as pointed out in the DI's lesson in Full Metal Jacket...a few marines have already committed acts like this...not in volume though, I'll admit.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
What Monk said, doesn't look very "pro".
Saw,
for the benefit of others like me who dont bother much with news......what is the evidence leading you to believe he's not very professional?
FYI, all I know about this is some nutter in Washington is shooting kids from concealment and, notably, hasnt been caught yet.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/626629.jpg)
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I'm not on the defensive, it's just highly unlikely this guy was trained in the US military as either a sniper or recon.
The only thing that's the same between a real trained sniper and this killer is one shot, kill or not, and move.
But then again, anyone who's played any online game with a sniper rifle has learned to target, fire, move.
Sure, I think there's more to this than anyone knows. But then again, the information available about who the killer is and what his motives are is non-existant.
It's obvious this person(s) has atleast planned this out and knows what he(they) are doing.
But if this is a highly trained sniper, I'd be very surprised as all shots have been relatively short ranges...
EDIT: Swoop, he shot one kid. AFAIK, that kid is still alive. All other targets have been grown adults, and almost all have been killed.
If nothing else, this will invite copycats who were thinking about doing it but assumed they'd be caught. This person has been out for almost a month taking people out, and they are no closer to catching him than they were on day 1.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I'm not on the defensive, it's just highly unlikely this guy was trained in the US military as either a sniper or recon.
The only thing that's the same between a real trained sniper and this killer is one shot, kill or not, and move.
But then again, anyone who's played any online game with a sniper rifle has learned to target, fire, move.
Sure, I think there's more to this than anyone knows. But then again, the information available about who the killer is and what his motives are is non-existant.
It's obvious this person(s) has atleast planned this out and knows what he(they) are doing.
But if this is a highly trained sniper, I'd be very surprised as all shots have been relatively short ranges...
-SW
You misunderstood me....I'm not saying he was a trained sniper...just that he might be a marine. The term "Sniper" is a media term, not mine. I would use "Gunman".
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Just because he's been shooting under 100m doesn't mean he can't shoot further.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Just because he's been shooting under 100m doesn't mean he can't shoot further.
It does until he accomplishes that feat.
:)
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
It does until he accomplishes that feat.
:)
-SW
If he makes a longer shot then it proves he can.
Because he hasn't doesn't prove he can't. It is still possible that he can shoot much further but has chosen not to.
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I know people who could pop a deer in the heart with a scoped rifle at 150yards... at 200 they'd wing it.
I could speculate all day long about what this person can do, and what this person is and how they got their training.
It's all speculation though, the only thing that certain is this person has done their homework on not giving away their identity, driving a vehicle that's on the road and is common in these parts, and only going for one person then moving immediately.
Their ability to shoot is questionable, they've all been stationary or close to it, targets at relatively close range.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Their ability to shoot is questionable, they've all been stationary or close to it, targets at relatively close range.
-SW
I might speculate and disagree with this comment ;)
His shooting may well be excellent. As far as I am aware all the hits were in the chest - but I could be wrong on that. Chest shots are not always kills and that may be part of a strategy to conceal just how good he really is.
Have there been any head-shots?
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Swoop, no other sources than Monk, whom I believe watches news more often than I do :D
If he left evidence on the scene (apparently casings & plans) either he was not being perfectionist or at least he was very st0ned.
Then again, Bullet casings are a bit too obvious somethhing to leave behind... dunno, just thinking out loud realy :)
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Depends on the type of bullet Curval, if you get some of the ammunition from US Cavalry, they have bullets that will fragment upon hitting bone (which the chest area has a lot of)...
The last guy to get shot (bus driver) had the bullet fragment on him.. those bullets are far more devistating than a solid penetrating round.. a near miss of anything vital with a normal round means certain death with a fragmenting round.
Have there been any head-shots?
I don't think so...
But like I said, you can speculate it on being someone highly trained.. but I guarantee you, a hunter or someone who has been hunting would do equally as well if not better.
-SW
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You can get good hollow point hunting rounds for most any caliber made nowdays. That along with a fairly high velocity round will almost always insure that any bullet that hits is either fragments, or deformed past being of any use.
I'm not as good now as I used to be, and I have no military history. But I commonly shot targets the size of crows out to 400 yards.
Not hard to shoot at 100 and hit what your aiming at with a person sized target.
Also there are Books & Web sites for how to build your own silencer if you really don't want to be heard. If this guy is really good he'll moves to a new city before he's caught.
But it could just as well be a pool of guys working together. In which case catching one will NOT stop the terror.
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If it was a Marine, it would be 13 deaths, not 9 deaths and 4 injuries.
This guy isnt a "sniper" hes a murderer.
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"Full Metal Jacket'"was a movie made by a anti-war liberal, not to be confused with real life
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Originally posted by john9001
"Full Metal Jacket'"was a movie made by a anti-war liberal, not to be confused with real life
I'm not comparing the movie with this situation...only the facts the DI quoted in his dialogue (assuming you believe Lee Harvey Oswold fired the fatal shot that killed JFK in one example he used).
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
If it was a Marine, it would be 13 deaths, not 9 deaths and 4 injuries. This guy isnt a "sniper" hes a murderer.
I just read Midnight Tahgut's thread about a possible link to Washington State...give it a read. It seems as if my theory ain't so far off..or at least someone looking for the guy is thinking along the same lines as me.
I agree with you that he is a murderer and I think he should face some "Texas style" justice.
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The "sniper" has made his shots from a relatively close range, so it doesnt necessarily indicate any formal weapons training.
What makes me wonder about his training is the fact that he is rarely witnessed, and always gets away clean. This, more than the shooting itself, makes me wonder about his background. True military snipers probably spend as much time learning the arts of observation, concealment, and to plan a safe and unobserved egress after the shooting, as they spend actually learning to shoot.
He is either very good, very lucky, or has taken the time to learn.
dago
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A couple hundred will buy you a nice ruger in .223 for a few bucks more you add a bi-pod and good quality scope.
With this simple, buy it anywhere hardware I (or just about anybody with a little patients) could have the average 10yr old getting 5" groups @ 300yds in about 1/2 an hour.
This isn't brain surgery.
The guy isn't selecting targets. He’s taking targets of opportunity. Find a spot with good cover and an exit, pick your target area (so you know the exact range already) and shoot the first unfortunate soul who walks into your sights.
The sad thing is it makes him pretty damn hard to catch. About the only way he could be caught is if-
1. He’s a solid nut-job (my guess). In which case he's doing it for attention or fame, whatever. Anyway he'll get bored and do something to make the hunt for him more interesting (the tarot card thing, the phone number, and the letter) eventually leading the cops to him.
2. Pure luck, some body stumbles upon him, his car breaks down, something like that.
3. One of his accomplices (or somebody he mouthed off to) turn him in. My bet is he has at least one guy working with him. A spotter to watch out for him while he's in the scope, maybe a lookout in a second vehicle.
If it turns out it's an organized terrorist thing this could be going on a long time. Hopefully though this Tacoma thing will pan out and they will get soon
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I really hope this sniperi ISN'T a marine. He would give them a bad name, he is hardly a good shot.
A psychopath? Sure. A marksman? hell no.
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Well, those Washington state area guys aren't the sniper... according to chief of police in Montgomery County.
-SW
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When I was 13, I went to the range with my dad with my Winchester model 94 30-30 that he gave me a few months before for christmas. This is "the gun that won the Wild West " for those unfamiliar. It had open iron sights, no scope. and I had fired it about 8-10 times while sighting it in on one other trip to the range. Just for kicks, when we went uprange to place our 1st set of targets, I put a shotgun shell on a nail on top of the target backboard of the 100 yard target. I hit it with my first shot. My dad was so excited that he hit the range safety light switch so we could go uprange and check it out. Yup, clean shot just under the brass. I put another one up and walked back with my dad beaming and carrying on. I hit the other one with my 2nd shot and my dad was stunned. I just thought "Wow! I guess I'm a decent shot".
All of this has little bearing on the identity or background of this malignant individual who is doing these "sniper" killings in DC other than to say it doesn't take much more than a little natural talent and the will to commit heinous acts such as these to pull it off.
kbman
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When I was in army, there was those "Natural born shooters".
They just take the assault rifle with open iron sights and shoot 300m (327yd) Golden mark just like that.
Jep, they holding a gun first time in their life...
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There is a single shot handgun that comes with a 16 inch barrel and in 223..takes a scope too. wonder if that is what he is using.
Thomson Center Contender. Will shoot 1 inch groups of 3 rounds at 100 yards.