Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Apache on October 23, 2002, 01:50:53 PM

Title: IT folks.
Post by: Apache on October 23, 2002, 01:50:53 PM: I have had it with backup tape drives. For the past several years, if I have a critical failure, its the stinkin' tape drive or tape. Of course, only when I need it.

I am going to backup to a backup server using large capacity disk drives...I think.

Any suggestions as to a software package or another strategy altogether?

I currently use Veritas 8.5. I installed 8.6 which has backup to file capabilities, but either this feature doesn't work in the eval package or it doesn't work period.

Thanks in advance.

Oh...Windows 2000 Server, svcpak 2.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: LePaul on October 23, 2002, 03:00:59 PM: Hey Apache

I gave up on Tape Drives/Dat drives and the whole bit ages ago. I haven't kept up on the software out there for backups, but what I do have is a P3 800 on my network that has 2 80GB hard drives dedicated to backups of the primary and secondary servers. Every so often, I grab a stack of CDRs and burn the contents of that data to CDs. Most of my data is customers websites and the software than powers my sites (ASP stuff, databases, etc etc).

I wish I could promote a better system, but so far, copying the data over a 100baseT network to another machine has worked very well.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: StSanta on October 23, 2002, 03:08:04 PM: Backups are for people with no spine.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: Apache on October 23, 2002, 03:14:53 PM: Heya LePaul,

Thanks for the reply. I have 15 servers. 2 are MSExchange 2000 servers, 4 are SQL servers, 3 are persistent VPN servers, 1 ISA/Proxy server and the rest are data storage servers.

Simply copying data for me won't work because of the number of production servers I have running. Because of file locks in SQL and Exchange, I have to have software that has open file backup capabilities as well as the ability to backup to file versus device.

I'm looking at SAN and NAS but I'm still unsure of what software to run. I've used Veritas so long, I'm like you...I don't know whats out there now.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: Apache on October 23, 2002, 03:16:17 PM: Quote
Originally posted by StSanta
Backups are for people with no spine.

lol, when it comes to data integrity, I'm a jellyfish.

BTW, whar ya ben?
Title: IT folks.
Post by: MrCoffee on October 23, 2002, 04:51:41 PM: Have you tried cleaning the tape head. You should be cleaning the tape head every 25 backup runs. You can do that manually or automatically depending on your setup. Backup tape drives are very reliable devices as they are designed to be so. Make sure you are using good quality tape etc... only reuse your tapes 4 times over at most. If you need anymore help, provide more info.

ps, thought you were a cop apache?
Title: IT folks.
Post by: AKIron on October 23, 2002, 05:04:48 PM: I like the newish Sony 8mm AIT drives. Large capacity and self cleaning.

Tapes if done properly give you the kind of protection that's essential to many businesses. I usually recommend daily full backups rotated weekly with 12 monthly tapes stored off-site. Incremental backups are just too unreliable when you have non-technical types managing the tape swaps.

Those monthly tapes can come in real handy when something has been deleted or altered and it's not discovered for a while.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: Wlfgng on October 23, 2002, 05:35:55 PM: Apache. I'm still using Veritas Backup exec and it rules IMO.
We are on Windows 2000 server with DLT back up drives.

30year shelf life and over 1million pass durability.

Are you in a distributed server environment?
Tape arrays?
anything really advanced as far as backup schemes ?
Title: IT folks.
Post by: SKurj on October 23, 2002, 06:17:55 PM: Taking notes....

SKurj
Title: IT folks.
Post by: Furious on October 23, 2002, 06:26:22 PM: Backup Exec 8.5 saved my bellybutton last week when both hard disks in a RAID went tits up together.

F.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: Apache on October 23, 2002, 08:08:47 PM: I appreciate the feed back guys.

A little more info.

We currently use Exabyte Mammoth 2 drives, 1 being an autoloader with Veritas 8.5. The autoloader was giving us problems first. Constant cyclic redundancy errors. An Adaptec SCSI adapter fixed that per Exabyte instructions.
Then the standalone drive started doing the same thing. A new SCSI controller didn't fix this one and Exabyte hasn't determined a fix.

I'm positive its the drives/tapes and not the software and would like to stay with Veritas if I can get "backup to file" working. I've been in contact with Veritas since I first posted and they are working on getting it working. I'm definetly going away from backup to tape and most probably will end up in the SAN/NAS architechture.

Note for MrCofee. I gave up the streets for a desk job...at the PD, lol. Pay is better and still get the donuts. :) From the time I started law enforcement in 1980, I had a hobby...computers. After 15 years on the streets and completing computer science, in addition to criminal science education, I went into the computer field professionally. It wound up being a good combination, both education and experience. I'm the systems analyst for a PD...and still get to do (assist) investigations.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: MrCoffee on October 23, 2002, 10:20:27 PM: Congrats AP :) Hum, exabyte. They have been around for quite a while so it hard for me to believe that their could be some issues with the drives (though always a possibility). CRC errors on a SCSI tape backup system are SCSI hardware related. Meaning that the SCSI subsystem generates the CRC check and returns the error to the OS through the driver to the backup software. Its either the cables, controller, or backup device itself. If you can, try swapping stuff around to see if you can pinpoint the problem. Check firmware revisions on the SCSI card, and backup device if there is any. Often, on more complex tape devices, there is a firmware (especially the high compression types) that is upgradeable by downloading the software putting it on tape (I know chicken and egg thing here) and inserting the tape into the drive. I've never used that particular drive. Then again I've used much older drives that never gave me any problems. Now DAT drives are a different story... Do you always get the same problem at the same location on tape? Is there a pattern somewhere?

AIT or DLT is the way to go... in that order of preference. AIT indexes faster (during image searches on tapes like during a restore) and is smaller than a DLT but I believe DLTs are still faster in terms of raw throughput. Sales types will tell you AITs are faster, eh. DLTs are faster (a bit) during reads and writes once it commences and are more durable in handleing. Overall I believe AITs are more reliable though.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: MrCoffee on October 23, 2002, 10:23:45 PM: Also, make sure the TAPE drive is physically located at the very end of the SCSI cable (not ID) and of course terminated. As a rule, backup tape devices generally should not share the same SCSI bus with hard drives to begin with. This could sometimes causes SCSI bandwidth contention, specially if drive is locaed ahead of the disks. Was true for older equipment at least.

Also, there are probably some DIP switches on the back of the tape drive. Verify that thet are set correctly such as parity etc...
Title: IT folks.
Post by: Wlfgng on October 23, 2002, 10:51:29 PM: I work with the PD here in my town. I work for the Town staff and serve all the computers and departments therein.

It's definately the most interesting/entertaining department to be in ! I hang there a lot when things are slow at work... well that and my GF is the court clerk. :)
Title: IT folks.
Post by: Pongo on October 23, 2002, 11:12:55 PM: We just implemented a pair of NAS servers. One in Vancouver and one in Victoria. (went 100% live last weekend).
I was just involved from an application testing and migration stand point but the tech seems good. Way faster restors then any tape could imagine...way more cosltly too.
Title: IT folks.
Post by: StSanta on October 24, 2002, 12:33:14 AM: BTW, whar ya ben?

27 days til graduation bud. And our subcontractors STILL haven' delivered protocols or hardware. Soon as I've graduated, I'll be killing in my C202 again.

I hear there are new planes in AH since 1.08 (when I last played).

They shall soon fall to the massive G forces generated by my arse. not to mention my 7mm's Killah Cannons.