Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Karnak on October 25, 2002, 09:15:10 PM
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There are a large number of varients on the airframes that we already have in AH that are needed to represent the entire war.
Germany
Bf109F-2
Bf109G-14
Bf109K-4
Fw190A-2
Fw190A-4
Fw190A-9
Ju88C-4b
Ju88G-7b
Italy:
C.200
Japan:
A6M3
N1K1-J
Russia:
Il-2 with 37mm gun package
LaGG-3
La-5
Yak-1
Yak-3
Yak-7
United Kingdom:
Lancaster Mk I
Mosquito F.Mk II or NF.Mk II
Mosquito B.Mk IV
Mosquito B.Mk XVI
Mosquito NF.Mk XXX
Seafire Mk III
Spitfire LF.Mk IX
Spitfire LF.Mk XVI (bubble canopy)
United States:
B-17E or B-17F
F6F-3
P-38F
P-38H
P-38J
P-40N
P-47D-5
P-47M
SBD-2 or SBD-3
These aircraft should be easier to add from an art asset perspective and they would dramatically affect the granularity of the AH planeset. Many more scenarios could be made using the appropriate aircraft instead of out of plce and out of time stand ins.
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Some of those planes while of the same linage, are differnt in substabtial ways, but ya Nice list.
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great list karnak.......
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Yak 3..nice thought. especially the 3 X b20 version.
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Yak-9. The mainstay of the VVS after 1943!
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yak9d
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Who cares? New planes would be up for the 1st week - after that back to the usual La7/Niki/Spit routine...
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Originally posted by Kirin
Who cares? New planes would be up for the 1st week - after that back to the usual La7/Niki/Spit routine...
More planes to kill those la7/niki/spit dweebs with. :D
Anyone who doesn't support this list is with the dweebs!!!
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Kirin with my options (especially for the vvs) there may be finally a reason to perk the el gay 7.
The niki and Spit are to slow to worry about.
Atleast until we get a few more spit variants. But even then they wouldnt need perking......
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Arado 234 B-2/N is missing from list...
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Fw 190A-3
Bf 109T
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Karnak you forget them.
Ki-61-I-Ko (12.7mm*2+7.7mm*2 or 12.7mm*4 or 12.7mm*2+MG151/20*2)
Ki-100
Ki-109
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If the rumors are correct, the P47M i comming
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Mitsu,
You are correct. I did overlook the Ki-61's varients.
Ki.61-Ia
Ki.61-II
Ki.100
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My $.02 on an early P-38: Whenever I see posts requesting early 38 models in this forum, the author invariably asks for an F or occasionally an H. My feeling is that the G-10 would be the most appropriate variant to model.
More Gs were made than Fs and Hs put together. 1282 of the P-38G were made vs. 377 F and 601 H models. Of those 1282, 548 were the G-10 sub-variant (more than double the production of any of the other 5 sub-variants of the G). The G-10 added provisions for mounting twelve 4.5" rockets in four three-tube "bazooka" type launchers and also recieved winterization equipment (not sexy but very nice to have in the Aleutians and the ETO).
P-38Gs began rolling off assembly lines in November 1941 and were in service at the squadron level by spring 1942, so they wouldn't be out of place in any early war USAAF scenario.
Of course I'd be thrilled if HTC saw fit to model an F, a G, an H, and a J. But, judging from the fact that we're nearly 3 years from beta and still only have 1 P-38, I'd say the chances are good that we'll only get one more. If that is indeed the case, then it makes sense to me to model one that is different enough in performance to the P-38L to be noticable.
A P-38J would be the easiest for HTC to make. No alteration of the 3D model would be necessary (assuming it's not a -5), just paint it green, remove the dive flap light from the cockpit, tweak the high speed roll rate, and voila! P-38J-10, -15, or -20. Other than the roll rate though, the J performs so much like the L that it makes me wonder if its even worth the effort to make those minor mods.
A pre-J model on the other hand, would require re-worked engine cowls, radiator scoops, and canopy. More work for HTC, but the result would be a Lightning that looks AND performs quite a bit differently from the current one. 400mph vs. 414mph and 8.5 minutes to 20k vs. 7 minutes (G vs. J/L).
OK, I guess I've rambled on long enough. In summary, my stance is that when/if we get another P-38, it should be the P-38G-10-LO because it was the most produced of the early variants, was in service in 1942, was the first equipped to operate in any climate, with the 12 rocket option it would retain an acceptable jabo capability (unlike the P-47D-11 and F4U-1), and its performance is different enough from the L to justify the work required to model it.
P.S. What Mitsu said. ;)
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Need another early Russian plane
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Originally posted by Hristo
Fw 190A-3
Bf 109T
not sure but i think the carrier version of 109 (T) didnt actually see action.That is unless I missed something :)
I must say though it would mean id finally have an aircraft i actually would WANT to fly off a CV.As it is I only really like the f6f.
The zero is not my cup of tea and neither are the f4us or the lame seafire.I would like to see a few unusual types like sea planes
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lol.
you're correct too, karnak.
i forgot Ki-61-II. ;)
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An end of war, low altitude 190 would be great news, maybe in 1.21..
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Who cares? New planes would be up for the 1st week - after that back to the usual La7/Niki/Spit routine...
Hey you missed out the p51.:D
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Mustang I
Mustang II
Mustang III
Canadian skins, of course :)
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As for planes with existing lookalikes:
FW-190 A6
FW-190 D11
BF 109 K4
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Originally posted by devious
As for planes with existing lookalikes:
FW-190 A6
FW-190 D11
BF 109 K4
I don't know about the Fw190A-6, but the Fw190D-11 was practically nonexistant. It would bring no real granularity to the AH plane set. It fills no gaps.
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AFAIK, Bf 109T were operational and flew sorties from land bases in Norway.
Fw 190A-6 fills quite a gap. A gap of 2 extra mausers. Several hundred were produced.
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The a6 would be great
The 109ts in norway had their foldable wings fixed and it was slower then a 109e. Theres no need for it, nor will it ever get used.
There were a few d11s but we dont need it in ah..
We could use an 109e7(b). db601n with a center bomb rack for 4 x 50kgs or a 250 kg bomb. It also has a dt option.
Its faster then the 109e4 we have.
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Thanks for the info on the Fw190A-6.
I think you guys are getting too granular though.
I was thinking of aircraft needed to fill gaps in the timeline.
For example, we have no Bf109 to represent the time between our early Bf109G-6 and the high performing Bf109G-10. That is why the Bf109G-14 would make a great addition.
In the same vein, the Spitfire LF.Mk IX would give us the mainstay fighter of the RAF for 1943 and 1944.
These aircraft both fill gaps in the timeline. Gaps in which the Bf109G-6 and Spitfire F.Mk IX that we have were not the mainstay fighters, but are forced to be in AH setups.
Unless I am gravely mistaken, the Fw190A-6 never replaced the Fw190A-5, but rather served along side it. Thus that time gap is adequately represented by the Fw190A-5. We do not need the Fw190A-6 any more than we need the Spitfire Mk Vc, even though it could be said to close a two Hispano gap.
The same is true of the Bf109E-7. While neat and nice, it doesn't really fill a time gap because it served along side the Bf109E-4. For the same reason the Spitfire Mk IIa isn't needed.
A needed Fw190 is an early version like an Fw190A-1 or Fw190A-2 and a fighter (not bomber killer or Jabo) that is between the Fw190A-5 and Fw190D-9.
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no karnak we did a libya map in the ct. The 109e7 would have been great to fill the gap between the BoB e4 and the 109f4.
There was a huge gap between what we had available. The same would be true on the east front. There were 109e4ss that were converted to e7s and e4 with db601n eng. But no drop tank and with only the ability to carry 1 250kg bomb. With light vehicles like the m16 m8 m3 2 x 50kgs could kill them.
I am not saying give us this at all costs but when bringing in new variants it would be easy enough to tweak the fm with minimal model changes. The a6 would be the same. An gun adjustment and an fm tweak and we are there.
The a1/a2/a3/a4 would all mean a change in the physical model an adjustment in the CofG. For ease a 190a6 and a 190a9 would be simple in terms of model adjustments.
Same with the e7.
Thats provided ht has good fm data.
The g6 we have has the model of a later war g6 but the fm of the early model.
Ht could use the g2 model give it the current g6 fm and with a new fm for the current g6 model could be made to fit a later war version.
So why were speculating, why not?
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A fighter between A5 and D9 would probarly be an A6.
Two more I'd like to see is the A9 and F9, maybe not needed so much but nice planes :)
What we need most of all though is Many MANY more loadouts for the 190 F8 and Il2. I think HTC might have forgotten they even added those two planes.
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Originally posted by Hristo
AFAIK, Bf 109T were operational and flew sorties from land bases in Norway.
Fw 190A-6 fills quite a gap. A gap of 2 extra mausers. Several hundred were produced.
Sshhh ! The Allied Conspiracy might discover our secret plan ;)
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One plane you could add with some slight modifications to the Lancaster is the Wellington.
:)
Also
the Mig 3 would be a fun ride also.
Gorf
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Wotan,
Perhaps I misjudge the utility of the Bf109E-7, but I really don't see it filling major gaps any more than I see the Spitfire Mk II filling major gaps. It would be nice to have all of the varients of these important fighters, but realistically we can't expect that. So what we need HTC to close is the glaring gaps. Things like not have any Fw190 from before 1943. We need a 1941 Fw190 so that the Spit V and Hurri II vs. the Bf109F-4 and Fw190A can be run without a 1943 substitute. That period had a major impact on the British as they scrambled to find a solution to the sudden and unexpected performance gap in their fighters when compared to the German fighters.
I agree that the Bf109E-7 saw service in North Africa and against Russia, but so did the Bf109E-4. I know it isn't great to use the lesser of the two in a scenario as we Spit fans do so in almost all European Theatre setups. But the fact is that the Bf109E-4 to Bf109E-7 is a comparatively minor gap by the standards of the AH planeset.
Originally posted by Gorf
One plane you could add with some slight modifications to the Lancaster is the Wellington.
the Mig 3 would be a fun ride also.
Neither of those are varients of existing airframes. The Wellington is not related to the Lancaster in any way, shape or form. It would need entirely new geometry.
Likewise the MiG-3 is not related to any existing airframe.
Both aircraft would make nice additions, but fall far out of the scope of this thread.
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Fw190A3
Bf109F2
Bf109K4
B17F
Sea Hurricane Mk IIB
F6F-3
Ju88 C or G
Mistel Combo Bf109/Fw190 with Ju88 flying bomb
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karnak
the only work it would take it adding an e7 would be a bomb rack, and and an fm adjustment. With the a6 a gun rework and an fm adjustment.
Thats easier then redoing the wing on the spit 9 or a mc200 or almost any of the others.
If you are pointing to easy variants they dont get much easier then an e7 and an a6 :)
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Wotan,
I'm not so much looking for easy varients, but rather for varients that fill major time gaps.
I agree that graphically the Bf109E-7 and Fw190A-6 are about as easy as can possibly be hoped for. I disagree that they fill any major gap though.
Also, the Spitfire LF.Mk IX doesn't require clipped wings. You see a lot of requests for it, but not all LF.IXs had clipped wings. Graphically an LF.Mk IX could be done simply by reskinning the F.Mk IX already in AH with zero geometry changes.
How many changes would be needed for a Bf109G-14? In my mind that is the most needed Bf109.
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Rufe, F4F-3s "Wild Catfiish" and maybe this anomoly
(http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/farmer/120/spitfire.jpg)
although AFAIK no floatplane spit ever went into production (at least one did go into combat though, with the floats removed)
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I'd love to see the 190E7 (would be good for those early war scenarios) and the 190A6 added.
-Amboss
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I do think think the Bf 109e7 would be nice to have espichaly with the popularity of earler war set up's and those in the med in paticular, not to mention the East front.
Also the Bf 110c7 would be very nice to have with it's 2 500KG bombs on it's ETC 500 rack's would add much to the Jabo punch of this plane in a time frame badely outclased by the Alies Boston at present.
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Originally posted by Nilsen10
If the rumors are correct, the P47M i comming
Nilsen, where did you hear these rumours? Is this a general "it is coming" or a specific "it is coming in 1.11"?