Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BBinder on October 28, 2002, 02:51:52 AM

Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: BBinder on October 28, 2002, 02:51:52 AM
hey wouldnt it be good for a new version of ACES high that will all be modern with all the latest jet fighters :confused: :rolleyes: ;) :D :p
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: metronom on October 28, 2002, 03:01:38 AM
Jets are for sissies :p

sailor
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: brady on October 28, 2002, 03:51:50 AM
It would suck. no fun man.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Innominate on October 28, 2002, 03:59:24 AM
Modern jet combat is no fun.
Just BVR point and shoot.

Anything with missiles is rather boring.  
(korea era jets aren't bad though...)
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Smut on October 28, 2002, 01:39:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Innominate
Modern jet combat is no fun.
Just BVR point and shoot.


LOL...

Eagl, shame on you wasting all that taxpayer money on your training...

:p

-Smut
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Wlfgng on October 28, 2002, 01:43:58 PM
I couldn't agree more.

Jet combat bites... it's kinda like pacman or something.

with prop-driven planes you need to actually see the enemy before you can shoot him down.
With jet sims you wouldn't even need aircraft models...external anyway, because you never see 'em :)
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: SunKing on October 28, 2002, 01:47:07 PM
I'll stick with the props.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: muckmaw on October 28, 2002, 01:59:25 PM
Very true. I gave up all jet sims simply because I spent more time adjusting the radar azimuth than flying.

Then I would fire an AIM-54 and kill a plane 70 miles away.

Not fun in my book.

I'ts not the jet's; it's the missles. Give me any flight sim where:

A) Your opponent and teamates are Human
B) The flight model is accurate
C) The planes involved are gunfighters only

So that pretty much rules out anything after Korea.

And forget WWI. I just have no passion for that era.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Rude on October 28, 2002, 04:40:39 PM
Jets are for girlscouts
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Matt1221b on October 28, 2002, 08:34:48 PM
world war 2 based stuff is more fun it involes skill...

sitting there and wating for your little red aimer to beep and hit the trigger itsnt much skill to me
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: 40 shades on October 28, 2002, 09:24:50 PM
Radar shmadar, give me a couple of 50Cals anyday.I tried playing Falcon 4 "BEEP BEEP FIRE FIRE MISSILE AWAY  (2 minutes and 25 miles way) TARGET DESTROYED ".  You spend more time reading the manual than flying, wheres the shreckin fun in that.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: BBinder on October 29, 2002, 02:35:26 AM
what i said in another post that went into a new topic is that you can make ity more fun by limiting ranges or missiles and radars, you can also have vehicles that will jam an enemy's radar :D
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: ike2k2 on October 29, 2002, 04:12:15 AM
i wish that AH would add

*ME 162 komet
*mig 15 bis
*f86 (all variants)
*F-80-84
*B-29
*surface to air missiles

***new and improved graphics engine that wont straint on           older machines

also i hope they make this game very simple, fun, and enjoyable both for teenagers and your grandpas' who served WW2, Korea, and Vietnam.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on October 29, 2002, 06:00:47 AM
Jets are fun but...

NOT IN ACES HIGH!!!.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: SC-Sp00k on October 29, 2002, 06:18:58 AM
Korean War era Jets would be just fine.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Vermillion on October 29, 2002, 06:29:40 AM
You guys have been flying Falcon4  too much.

Missle combat,even up thru the mid-70's were highly unreliable in combat conditions, hard to use, and were not "just point and shoot BVR = kill ".  

Not even close!!

The Israeli's reported that even during the Six Day War (1967) only 30% of all air to air kills were prosecuted with missles. The rest were conducted with good old fashioned cannons.

During both phases of the air war over North Vietnam the success rate of the Sparrow missle was approximately 12%. The Sidewinder was consider to be "much better". Its success rate was somewhere in the 18% range.  Now realize that this doesn't include missles fired 'out of parameters', and also includes the 1972 Linebacker campaigns which helped out these statistics quite a bit. Hell, I saw one statistic recently that stated that something like 30% of Sparrow attempted launches never even left the launch rail.  

And this doesn't even start to include issues such as the rate of radar failure during this period.  The difficulty of "Friend or Foe" identification and other issues. Realize that during Vietnam, the ROE requirement to visually identify the enemy aircraft before firing was there for a reason.

Do some research guys, its not quite what you think! :)
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Xjazz on October 29, 2002, 06:37:02 AM
ROFL! Lost of BS here!

Those Su-27 Flanker v1.5 and BVR LAN fights (sigh).

It was blast when you BVR engage with two R27 (radar guided). Lock on and shot one or both at max range and go the F-pole. chicken-shit game starts now: Hold the lock or start evasie...

Because R27s wasnt that hard avoid, engagements turns very very often to the gun fight. "What a heck is B&Z?"  

or

Co-op NOA attack to enemy field. Need to be carefully because the SAMs and GAI.

:)
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: BNM on October 29, 2002, 07:05:22 AM
No!
Title: Re: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Krusher on October 29, 2002, 08:02:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BBinder
hey wouldnt it be good for a new version of ACES high that will all be modern with all the latest jet fighters :confused: :rolleyes: ;) :D :p


Airwarrior Vietnam was possibly one of the reasons Air Warrior fell behind in development. It could be said that it helped kill Air Warrior..

Just an opinion and I may be wrong :)
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Vermillion on October 29, 2002, 08:58:31 AM
What killed Airwarrior was a lack of vision and apathy at the corporate headquarters.  Air Warrior: Vietnam actually had alot of promise in my opinon, but had nothing to do with the demise of AW.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Innominate on October 29, 2002, 11:09:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Vermillion
You guys have been flying Falcon4  too much.

Missle combat,even up thru the mid-70's were highly unreliable in combat conditions, hard to use, and were not "just point and shoot BVR = kill ".  

Do some research guys, its not quite what you think! :)


Nobody disputes this, but considering the  post is referring specificly to "all the latest jet fighters" I don't really see how it's relavent.

Rear-aspect short range missiles could be fun, but the long range radar, and all aspect heat seeking missiles would make for pretty iffy gameplay.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Wlfgng on October 29, 2002, 11:31:42 AM
just sa NO to missiles.


real men use GUNS !!!
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Squire on October 29, 2002, 12:06:41 PM
WW1 air combat would be awesome if done right.

Anything 1916-1953 is ok in my book. Leave out the missiles, way too dweebish in an online sim.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: vorticon on October 29, 2002, 12:24:36 PM
id rather hitech spend its money (if they make something new after aces) on a ww1 combat...NOW thAT is the era of REAL dogfights (havent seen a good ww1 fighter game since the ORIGINAL red baron)
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: AKDejaVu on October 29, 2002, 12:29:21 PM
bbinder... have you posted on this BBS under different IDs before?  You really remind me of someone that used to think 2 x 26 was 42.

AKDejaVu
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Arfann on October 29, 2002, 03:37:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
bbinder... have you posted on this BBS under different IDs before?  You really remind me of someone that used to think 2 x 26 was 42.

AKDejaVu


Unless, of course, "what is 2x26" is the question to life, the universe, and everything.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Fancy on October 29, 2002, 03:51:27 PM
Well, like I've said before Korean era Air Combat was unique insofar as it was the first war fought primarily with jets and last war in which jets had no real guided missiles to depend on.  It was also the last war that the United States faced what was proabably an equal or better foe in terms of A/C.  They didn't call it "Mig Alley" because it was a nice place to meet girls.  In fact, for years American A/C never dared venture into Mig Alley.  Not to mention that the cannons of that time were FIERCE.

But on the whole WWII air combat is all the stimulation I need.  A igree that if you can't read the markings when you squeeze the trigger, then it ain't a game.
Title: I didn't find this jet combat boring
Post by: streakeagle on October 29, 2002, 06:47:06 PM
This was a sweep mission in Strike Fighters involving 8 gunless F-4Ds (4xAIM-9, 4xAIM-7) versus unknown number of MiG-17s/21s and Su-7s (exceeding 20). The F-4s can't just point and shoot and the MiG-17s don't have missiles, but MiG-21s do. It is a tough fight for both sides, and a lot of fun working the F-4 into a tail aspect shot at short range to get an AIM-9 kill.

This offline battle against AI was easily more fun than most of my MA experiences. I can only imagine that having 300+ people playing rather than any AI would only be better.

Jets are faster than props and handle a little differently, but you are nothing but arrogant if you claim props are the only way to have fun and exciting air battles. If you play jet sims that are as realistic as Aces High, you will find that there is nothing easy or arcadish to it. In fact, in many ways it is far more challenging due to the speeds.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: SKurj on October 30, 2002, 03:44:35 PM
Wheels up..

20 incoming cons !!

got tone, fire!!
next target, tone, fire!!
and so on +)


I don't really think the current arena style play would work too well, unless missile and radar range were seriously reduced, and the map expanded.

A furball of 20 modern jets... would take up alotta space, and all the missiles would hit frames pretty good i bet too


SKurj

btw i am here playin a ww2 sim, not a jet sim... so i guess you talking to the wrong crowd +)
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Busher on October 30, 2002, 04:51:37 PM
Jets = Prostitute Airplanes :)

No visible means of support :p
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: senna on October 30, 2002, 05:07:07 PM
We would need to have a complete air war package modelled like AWACs AG AA WW all that stuff with lotsa strategic ground stuff and a complete and balanced "order of battle" or whatever. Modern day airwar is complicated stuff. But I think it would be alot of fun dodging SAMs. Hey helicopters and pilot rescue stuff also. Throw in some AI ground combatants and SF stuff too. Fun fun fun...

Of course, the difference between this and Falcon 4.0 would be real people behind the game pieces, perhaps even the SAM nets etc... on a large MMOG player game server like in AH now.

:)
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: MANDOBLE on October 30, 2002, 06:31:27 PM
Falcon 4.0: pure platinum.
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: palef on October 30, 2002, 07:08:19 PM
I don't like jet sims or games period.

I personally find them boring and far too much work to play well.

Aircraft from the 1925-1950 period fascinate me (including the early jets) because they were designed as peak performers with a very human element to both design and aircraft control. This was a very competitive time in aviation and the advances were enormous.

If Hitech Creations ever did entertain the idea of a missile era jet sim, I wish them well but I won't be paying to participate.

palef
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: Mark Luper on October 31, 2002, 05:51:15 AM
I personaly like the idea of WWI and early Jets. I like jets but would only want air to ground missles present. I think it could be fun and would require their own arenas. Mixing it all up in a single main arena wouldn't work I don't think.
Title: Re: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: T0J0 on October 31, 2002, 03:36:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BBinder
hey wouldnt it be good for a new version of ACES high that will all be modern with all the latest jet fighters :confused: :rolleyes: ;) :D :p


Why recreate the wheel, hasn't that subject been covered with about 25 boxed sims?! Yeah the AW korean war theatre was a big crowd pleaser...."""""NOT""""   All that effort to please 25 subscribers... This had to be a fishing expedition!!
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: paintmaw on October 31, 2002, 08:34:17 PM
Falcon 4.0 was best sim ever made , I beta tested it for a year or more . Great fun , no multi-player killed :(
AKA Painter VFA 69th
Title: A New ACES HIGH
Post by: AtmkRstr on November 01, 2002, 07:58:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
id rather hitech spend its money (if they make something new after aces) on a ww1 combat...NOW thAT is the era of REAL dogfights (havent seen a good ww1 fighter game since the ORIGINAL red baron)


By the original Red Baron, do you mean Sierra's sweet game with the rolling plane set carrers?
Or do you mean the dupe of the 1984 game Sopwith - a side scrolling shoot'em up?

Both a great games! BTW, sopwith 3 is availalbe online:
http://www.classicgaming.com/sopwith/multi.htm