Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Widewing on October 28, 2002, 09:57:12 AM
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I have been using a Thrustmaster Topgun Afterburner joystick and throttle since March of this year.
To date, I have had a number of problems. One unit was returned to CompUSA after a pot crapped out within three weeks. Back in August, the twist-stick pot began to drift, forcing me to switch to the rocker switch on the throttle. Saturday, the hat switch began to malfunction, often refusing to close contacts in any direction but forward (mapped to view up). Last evening this failure cost me.
I had a pair of Ta 152s zoom down on my heavy P-51D. I spotted them long before they were a threat and had no trouble avoiding their attacks, and still was able to hang on to my ordnance. However, after the second one made a run, and failed to keep his E up, I dumped my ord and took off after it. We all know that the Ta 152 is somewhat undermodeled. So I was able to close on it in a shallow climb. At about 1.4k the 152 reversed, and I turned to gain position. When I tried to track the 152 using the hat switch, It crapped out yet again. All I had was forward and up views.
So, now I'm fumbling around with the keypad, having to take my eyes off of the screen. Trying to find the proper combination of keys, and still fly is impossible. I can't find that damn 152! Finally I spot it, right on my six, not 300 yards distant. I dump flaps, pull off power and try to scissor. But, he's too close and I can't change aspect nearly enough and I'm whacked by the potato gun.
Good flying and shooting by Urchin only exacerbated things.
Generally speaking, I'm far from satisfied with Thrustmaster hardware. Bad pots, cheap switches (a good switch design should survive millions of on-off cycles) and they still don't offer anything but XP Beta drivers for the Afterburner.
However, the throttle assembly has been trouble-free so far. It also has its own USB plug. So, I'll hang on to it as a back-up. Meanwhile, I think I'll go buy a Saitek X-45 and try my luck with it.
Until I can get it, I'll try to try to repair that hat switch, or get proficient with the keypad.
Either way, finding out you are blind in the middle of a dogfight is no fun.
As to Thrustmaster, I found that my old Suncom was infinitely more reliable, but being an analog joystick, it spiked like mad. In general terms, Thrustmaster has not impressed me with their products or their customer support. I hope Saitek is better in both regards.
My regards,
Widewing
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I've never been a fan of the "Topgun" model line. It symoblizes the beginning of a downard spiral for Thrustmaster that culminated with the "fragmaster".
TM's pots have always been their weak point. As a rule though, they've made up for it by setting the industry standard in every other category as well as with the best tech support in the field (once SOB quit).
I've owned most every product they've ever made. FCS, Mk I, Mk II, FLCS, TQS, F-16, F-22, Cougar, numerous wheels, RCS, their first game pad (can't remember what it was called), The new Firestorm game pad, and a bunch of other stuff I simply can't remember.
Most of it is still in service somewhere (distributed to friends). I'll continue to upgrade.
BTW... the FCS was still my favorite product. It was totally revolutionary for the time. The Cougar is a close second. It, once again, is setting the standard for the market.
AKDejaVu
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Is it the black or silver afterburner(The first or second one)?
Mine sure as hell doesnt have a USB plug for the throttle unit.
I had a drift problem with the pot on the twist, taking the grip apart and repositioning the pot fixed it. (Then again, the rocker is far more usefull in AH) And the clickiness on the hat dissapeared just recently, but the hat still works fine. Considering that it's over a year old, and has been used for thousands of hours, thats not too bad.
I'm curious though, I've considered an X45 for a while now, but it uses the same spring mechanism as the cyborg. The stick I used before the one I have now was a cyborg 3d, and after only about a month of use, the spring mushed out, and has a very wide center. Has anyone had the problem with a cyborg, and would an X45 do the same thing?
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I have a CH throtel, pedals, and a CH F56 stick, all USB...had them for over a year, never had a problem, and some moths have been know to log 180 hours in this game.
Before that I had literly broken stick's right off their base plate from over use and well I get a lettle tense sometimes:)
CH is a good product imo.
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I've had two TM F-16 FLCS, and two F-22 sticks. The pots on all of them crapped out fairly quickly. Some lasted only a couple days some made it a couple weeks. A gave one of the F-22 sticks to a friend who did the digital conversion and that seems to work great. I've had two CH Fightersticks which both lasted over a year. Does anyone make a quality digital/optical stick? I've been using the Saitek Cyborg 3D for a year now and i't starting to fall apart. Can anyone recomend a Saitek stick for long-term durability? Just my experience... Anyone want to buy a used TM F-16 or F-22?
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I've been using TM's FLCS and TQS for over 3 years with no problem. I recently added the RCS and it's been going strong as well.
I've used TM products only since AW on GENIE and I've never had a problem with one until it's at least 5 years old and then it's always been plastic breaking (hat switch pops off) never POTS.
Guess I've been lucky so far.
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Innom, I have the X36... both springs simply broke. I replaced 'em using a gutted CH stick by clipping the spring in half..
Most sticks stock work well for a couple of months... after that, either you return it for a new one or you end-user-mod it to your liking.
-SW
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I have CH pro throttle, rudder pedels, and F16 Combat stick ... no USB. Works & has worked great. Want to .. thought to upgrade but why? Tech is also great. In fact, if you have a problem they will replace/fix problem. Just send it back to them. I had TM setup way back when, before CH had the Throttle. BTW I use speedkeys to make the ptw files.
Chuck
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
TM's pots have always been their weak point. As a rule though, they've made up for it by setting the industry standard in every other category as well as with the best tech support in the field (once SOB quit).
AKDejaVu
I hear a lot about TM pots. A number of the AKs have poorly functioning cougars because of potentiometer problems.
The stick DJ describes is exactly like a car with the best paint, upholstery, audio and steering in the automotive industry whose engine repeatedly fails.
It's great to look at - hey, you can even jump in the front seat, grab the steering wheel and go "Vroom, vroom" but god forbid you start the engine. :D
Guys, I think the "Force" has been applied to you. "Move along, there's nothing to complain about here."
curly
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
TM's pots have always been their weak point. As a rule though, they've made up for it by setting the industry standard in every other category as well as with the best tech support in the field (once SOB quit).
:p
Oh and it was the Phazer Pad - super programmable & super suck!
As far as pots go, the only product I ever saw with real problem in the pots was the F22, and although ThrustMaster had a fix for this, they never implimented it - for whatever reason - probably the same reason I moved on to greener pastures. It involved an entire new board inside the stick, and instead of the pot signals going directly to the game port, they were filtered through a chip which analyzed the signal coming from the pot and discarded any erroneous data (spiking)...and passed all good data that conformed to a proper curve through to the game port. It worked flawlessly and was easily the smoothest stick I'd ever used...I had one of the few, but unfortunately it didn't work with Bob Church's new digital chips.
For the Cougar, I thought it was a mistake to go with Pots. Although I don't follow the often misguided stigma that pots are "of the devil", I know there were/are a lot of flight sim enthusiasts who do - and for that simple fact, I think using something else (and upping the price of the units to accomodate the increased parts cost) would have been a better choice. I'm sure they had their reasons tho', and cost may have been one of them.
SOB
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I have had the FCS, ProFCS, F22 and the Cougar along with their accompanying throttles, the WCSII, TQS and the one included with the Cougar. Been using them since 1995 and my brother and a friend keep getting the hand-me-downs as I upgrade.
I only had to spray my pots out once, maybe twice, and replace the pot on my RCS.
When I had a problem with the pots (which was fixed with WD-40), I emailed TM and they sent me a complete repair kit including 2 hat switches, 2 pots and 2 springs at no charge. I haven't had to use one of the kits, yet (the pot they sent was too big for the RCS, but I found one locally for $2.00). Let me also say I had no problems until well after my warranties had expired.
:D
Just my experiences,
Jeff
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CH is the best setup I've come across. I used MS Sidewinder for a long time and a couple of the TM sticks but they wouldn't last over 4-6 months. I have all CH - USB Throt, Rudder Pedals and Stick setup now with no problems at all. Had these for 4-5 months and the stick hasn't loosened up much at all. I'm very satisfied with CH and won't be changing again in the forseeable future. Good luck!
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I've been real lucky. Been using the Top Gun flight control system since 1997. Same pedals, same throttle, third stick.
Problem is, been buying sticks on EBay ( 10 bucks for the last one ) when I can find them, and they all spike big time.
Don't know what I'm going to do when the stick I'm using for the last 3 years craps out. Haven't been able to find a replacement that doesn't spike.
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Have found the quality in my Cougar to be less than expected. If I wasn't so addicted to the functionality (for over 7 years now) I'd try something else.
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My Saitek X-36 USB is still as good as the day I bought it over two years ago. I now have an X-45 as well for a 2nd computer and intend to get a couple more to go with my other 2 computers when sufficient funds become available. I have read of other people having various problems with Saitek sticks, but so far I have been pretty lucky. Everything works right and NEVER needs to be calibrated.
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Originally posted by streakeagle
My Saitek X-36 USB is still as good as the day I bought it over two years ago. I now have an X-45 as well for a 2nd computer and intend to get a couple more to go with my other 2 computers when sufficient funds become available. I have read of other people having various problems with Saitek sticks, but so far I have been pretty lucky. Everything works right and NEVER needs to be calibrated.
I'm going to try the X-45 as soon as I can get over to CompUSA. I gave my Afterburner joystick to a technician at work today and he disassembled it, cleaned the pots and somehow cleaned the contacts on the hat switch. I used it tonight. Worked much better overall, with only a touch of flakiness in the hat switch, in just one view (right-front).
What a difference vision and consistant pots make!
My regards,
Widewing
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About a year ago I kinda pissed James Hallows off saying that Cougar pots will be crap. After calling me uneducated and so, he stated that Cougar pots will be infinitely better than ones in F22, completely sealed (like that is gonna solve something, eh) and with greater resolution (this is matter of other hardware, not pot itself).
Just couple of days ago, he admitted his own Cougar missbehaves in pot department. So did few other people.
Right now, there is a kit for Cougar which uses HAL (magnetic contactless "pot") as with Simpeds, but it costs very much.
IMO, in a year from now, Cougar will be just another spiky F22 story. Sad. You just end up with spiky 300$ stick envying the kids who went Microsoft.
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Originally posted by AKcurly
I hear a lot about TM pots. A number of the AKs have poorly functioning cougars because of potentiometer problems.
The stick DJ describes is exactly like a car with the best paint, upholstery, audio and steering in the automotive industry whose engine repeatedly fails.
It's great to look at - hey, you can even jump in the front seat, grab the steering wheel and go "Vroom, vroom" but god forbid you start the engine. :D
Guys, I think the "Force" has been applied to you. "Move along, there's nothing to complain about here."
curly
I've got an F-16 FLCS and an F22 Pro, two TQS, Elite Rudders and RCS.
It's absolutely obscene that TM hasn't straigtened out their pot problems on the Cougar.
I think the next stickset I go with will be CH. I'm not wasting my $$$ on a Cougar.
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Word of Warning- if you Have Windows 2K or Windows XP, the factory Saitek drivers don't work.
There are third party drivers available that work fine though, and the only problem with them is I can't make the Pinkie thing be my WEP trigger anymore.
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Just a note: My Cougar works flawlessly as far as the pots are concerned.
SOB
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After testing Cougar last summer I can say Im very happy Saitek X36 usb owner.
Two years using and still going well. Some switchs in hat1 are wearing a bit but no problem beacuse I can get new ones if really needed.
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Cougar 09022 going strong. No complaints tho those damn springs are strong. Modding it to the Super Uber Cougar should see me with it for a long time.
I had the TG Afterburner before this. Thing last for ages. Finally the 3rd Button died on me and I had to remove it. My only complaint for what was a great stick for the price.
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I am using the F16 FLCS and RCS system. It was purchased when Warbirds was still 2D. It is impossible to determine the number of hours, though the total of my bills is too painful to think about.
I've sprayed the RCS system one time.
That said, I find TM's support (their website primarily) to be absolutely horrible. The FLCS won't load in Win2k, but since it's so old I guess I can't complain about that, I just partitioned the drive.
The old style RCS is the only thing I am comfortable with, I can't stand those pedals that act like car pedals and are too close together.
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Penyl...check out http://www.stickworks.com. This is Bob Church's (programmer extrodinaire who did the microcode for lots of TM stuff, including the FLCS) site and he makes a new chip/software for the FLCS/F22/TQS. It includes a windows loader among other things, and is compatible with Win2k. Check it out, if it's worth it to ya, you can get it from http://www.fscentral.com for $50.
SOB
-edit- Oh, I almost forgot the best part of it...if you upgrade, you no longer have to plug the stick in through the keyboard, as all functions and programming will be done through the joystick port.
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I used a CH Combatstick analog for about 5 years before I had to replace it. If I hadn't spilled beer on it so many times I'm sure it would have lasted longer. The new stick is CH Fighterstick USB, which is IMHO perfection. I'm still using CH analog rudder pedals. CH has earned my loyalty.
ra
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CH USB Pro Throttle , got a lot of nice buttons there :D :D
USB Microsoft FFB2 stick , AH has really nice force feed back in stall and overspeed :D :D not many button that you can reach :(
USB CH Pro Pedals , very very nice and you got brakes to boot , :D :D :D
This IMO is the nicest setup yet to date that I have tried . Have had most sticks too :D
cheers
spro