Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on October 29, 2002, 04:41:42 AM
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the perk prices of the prop planes is too high.
the one perk plane that is priced well enough to get used is the f4u1c.
the other prop perk planes should be priced about the same.
spitXIV 10 perks
f4u4 15 perks
tempest 30 perks
ta152 10 perks
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Originally posted by Citabria
the one perk plane that is priced well enough to get used is the f4u1c.
It's the anonymity, not the cost.
If the prop perk planes were labled as the plane they're a variant of, rather than the perk planes, thier usage would go up without screwing with prices.
(then again, the opposite is probably also true)
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Innominate, I totally agree.
The big icon that shows you're a perk to everyone within D6.0 more than negates the performance advantage of a perk plane (except the Me262). it just makes you target #1 and everyone knows exactly what to expect from you. It's no wonder that I barely every use the perk points I have, it pointless since every time you up in a perk plane you instantly become the number 1 target.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Me262 =200 Perks
Tempest =70 Perks
Spit14 =50 Perks
La7 =40 Perks
F4U-4 =30 Perks
F4UC =15 Perks
Ta152 =10 Perks
Remove the "pour honey all over my bare bellybutton next to a bee hive" perk tags as well.
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perk plane tags are the main reason that spoils fun when flying them. i could put up with any cost for flying a plane (although i can't understand disproportions between prices when th eperformance if quite similar). The planes are overally overpriced (excpet 262).
Flying a Tempest and Spit XIV is the best way to fnd out what we mean here saying that perk tags spoil the fun...
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SirLoin:
La7 =40 Perks
Looks like someone is frustrated trying to kill La7's..... either that or they have a completely skewed opinion of how good/bad the La7 is.
Sorry to point it out, but the day the La7 is perked is the day that all the "similar" performance rides also get perked, and that would include the Pony, 190D9, 109G10, and likely some other planes (Yak9T, Typhoon). That would make for even more Spitfires/N1K's...
The C-Hog is such a good example of how perking works best. It appears just like any other Hog, is cheap enough that someone can fly one every second sortie if they don't throw them away wastefully, and has an ability in the cannons that can surprise someone who thinks you are just another Hog. The C-Hog sees tonnes of use, yet most people don't even notice they are fighting one until they feel the 4 hispanos cut them to pieces at D800 :)
-Soda
The Assassins.
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The C-hog doesn't perform any different than any other F4U either, so it doesn't skew people's SA.
It really wouldn't be fun flying around having the thought in the back of your mind that every Spit you see might be a 14, or every F4U might be a -4.
And then the whining would be incredible, the "he killed me in a superplane and I couldn't even tell!". Yeah, we need that like we need a root canal.
What makes AH fun is being able to tell what your opponents are flying, being able to make proper decisions and fight your plane against his. If you can't tell what the other guy is flying, then fun is thrown out the window and it all comes down to luck.
I don't think the perk tags make any real difference to an agressive pilot. The people who think they need special ICONS in perk planes are IMO the ones who want to "hide"......the F4U-1C is available for these players :)
Heck, I wish EVERY plane had a unique ICON. Before someone starts the "well they were hard to tell apart IRL", please answer the following--why do the LA5 and LA7 have different icons? Or pray tell, how many 109E's flew combat along side 109G-10's?
As for the PP's being "too expensive".....nah, people are just too afraid of loss, as if PP's were real money.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by SirLoin
La7 =40 Perks
Remove the "pour honey all over my bare bellybutton next to a bee hive" perk tags as well.
bwahahahaha someone having a leetle problem killing a mere la7?
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Yeah, the same guy who went head to head with Drex and eagl in the finals for the AH Convention Tourney, is probably having huge difficulties with the La7. :rolleyes:
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Why should perk planes more common? Why should they be made cheaper? The whole idea of perking them was to keep them rare. Also, if they didn't have distinct icons, how would you ever even know a perk plane is around? A perk plane from D3.0k is still just a lumpy little dot on your monitor. You'd treat it like any other con and never even register the fact that there's a perk plane around. Threads like this one would be even more common...
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perk all the planes except a few ...like a ranking system .... say spit1 0perks spit5 5perk spit9 10perk spit 14 same as it is now ..... it would even it out a bit the better players get pivalaged with better planes
or something like this
109E 0perk ..then up a few perks every version
p47D11 0perk ..and up every version
same with 51B on to the D or the 190's and LA's
it would make the dweebs work to be a dweeb
mabe the early zero could be 0perk then the next is 5-10 the the nik after that
or you could do it by a country basis ... p40E 51B D11 f4U1 f4f4 A20 0perks then up a few for better planes
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Remember all the autofellacio going on when someone would bring up perking the chog ? "what, you're having problems killing the chog!?!"
We're seeing the same thing here.
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it's not the ease or difficulty in killing the C-hog that lead it to be perked, it was because it was 20% of the total kills each tour... it was way overused. la7 is the 4th most used plane so far... and consistently stays there. ponys, spits and nikis are the top 3...
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
Why should perk planes more common? Why should they be made cheaper? The whole idea of perking them was to keep them rare. Also, if they didn't have distinct icons, how would you ever even know a perk plane is around? A perk plane from D3.0k is still just a lumpy little dot on your monitor. You'd treat it like any other con and never even register the fact that there's a perk plane around. Threads like this one would be even more common...
First off, perk planes are rare. They're not rare because thier expensive, or even because they're not good planes. They're rare because they aren't the lead bit fun to fly most of the time. The perk planes should remain rare(Still, they are so little used now, that even doubling thier usage would have little real effect except for those who fly them) The whole point of the perk system AFAIK is to reward pilots for flying early war planes, what good is a reward if using it isn't any fun?
All of the perk planes should be common, an f4u4 or spit14 shouldn't be the reward tag you see maybe once a day. The prop perk planes all outperform the p51d by at least a small amount. However, this is a small advantage, There is as much difference between the f4u4 and the 262 as there is between the p40b and p51d.
Why SHOULD these perk planes be treated any differently? They're hardly THAT much more dangerous than the free planes. I don't see anyone complaining about they got killed by a 109F thinking it was a G10 and trying to out-turn it. Yes people will whine, people whine about everything, right or wrong.
Your argument works beautifully with the me262, which most definitly has a HUGE performance advantage over the rest of the field, and NEEDS it's tags.
Lets face it. The only real reason to have perk tags on the prop perk planes is so that you can get the bragging rights of having beaten the other half a dozen teammates to that f4u4. They're a trophy.
I posted a poll a while ago, the results of that poll are here. (http://www.innomi.com/polls/pollres.png)
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Perk the La7!!!!!!!!!!!
They bore me with there dweeb-like tactics. I mean I dont care if you fly it, just don't run away at the slightest sign of getting shot down.:)
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Yes for the perk icon change.
Yes for lowering the general perk cost level.
Yes for perking 109G10, 190D9, La7, P51B, P51D and Yak9U for about 5 perk points each. To compensate for the "loss", a 109G14, LaGG3, La5, Yak7, Yak9 and an Allison Mustang should be introduced to AH.
In my opinion, the perk point system is a great concept but has to be used more effectively than it currently is. If the "general public" would be flying mostly mid-war planes, the late war perk planes would really give a bang for the buck. Of the current perk planes, only the 262 and C-hog are really worth the investment, imho.
Thanks,
Camo
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Originally posted by spiegel
Perk the La7!!!!!!!!!!!
They bore me with there dweeb-like tactics. I mean I dont care if you fly it, just don't run away at the slightest sign of getting shot down.:)
Errr, perking the La7 would lead to exactly that. ;)
Camo
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Use the perk icon to your advantage. You can spoil a whole base capture attempt by flying a TEMP through the enemy hoard at a tantilizingly low altitude and slow enough but still safe speed.
90% of the hoard will peel off their vulching to chase you, giving some team-mates a chance to up from the field.
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Originally posted by Samiam
Use the perk icon to your advantage. You can spoil a whole base capture attempt by flying a TEMP through the enemy hoard at a tantilizingly low altitude and slow enough but still safe speed.
True enough.
The perk planes are EXCELLENT for setting enemies up as easy kills for teammates. But what fun is that?
A perk(prop, not the jets) plane has a small performance advantage over thier free cousins. An advantage you pay for with a good number of perks. The tags negate this advantage and more.
Either, decrease the cost of the perk planes significantly(10 for 152, 20 for spit9/f4u4, 30 for tempest) and add a specific tag for every plane.(i.e. 109G10, etc)
Or
Give the prop perk planes the tags of thier free cousins. Possibly increase the cost if they see too much usage after a month or so. (The huge stockpiles of perks, combined with an element of fun being put into the perk planes would obviously cause them to see a TON of usage after any change.)
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The perk planes are EXCELLENT for setting enemies up as easy kills for teammates. But what fun is that?
Call me sick, but I think there is some fun in leading lambs to the slaughter. I can make a night of it.
I'm not sure lowering cost of perks is really an answer. It seems that eventually most people accumulate enough perks that there's not really that much of a debate between taking a 10 perk ride and a 70 perk ride. But for newbie's there's a real sweaty-palmed thrill to risking your first 70 perks that isn't there if it's only 10 or 20 perks.
In favor of removing the perk icon, I kind of like the guessing game that comes with first engaging a Spit (Is he going to to throw .50s or .303s at me?) or 190 or 109. It raises the stakes considerably to wonder if that TYPH is really a Tempest.
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Originally posted by Samiam
It raises the stakes considerably to wonder if that TYPH is really a Tempest.
It's a misconception to say that the Typhoon and Tempest looked just alike. In planform, they looked quite different. The wing of the Tempest was much wider than that of the Typhoon, due to the fact that the cannon breeches were further behind the leading edge than in the Tiffie. They looked about as much different as a Spitfire does from a Hurricane.
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Originally posted by runny
It's a misconception to say that the Typhoon and Tempest looked just alike. In planform, they looked quite different. The wing of the Tempest was much wider than that of the Typhoon, due to the fact that the cannon breeches were further behind the leading edge than in the Tiffie. They looked about as much different as a Spitfire does from a Hurricane.
Yes, but in the game when you are deciding to engage a TYPH while he's still 3.5K out, I don't think you will be able to tell a difference unless there became a radically different paint scheme (like the yellow nose on the F4U-1D gives it away from a distance).
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The spit XIV is overpriced because:
-it's about as good as a spit9
-it saw heavy use in wwii, unlike the AH spit14
The Tempest is overpriced because:
-it's not! it's the best plane in the game.
I think the main reason the chog was perked was because
-dhogs were very rare in AH
-pt boats were pointless (they still are IMO)
-chogs were rare in wwii (only 200 produced, I believe)
Perking all non early war planes in slightly extreme.
Here's a compromise:
-Perk all late war planes.
-Give all mid war planes low ENY values.
-Give early war planes high ENY values.
There is enough veriety in the AH plane set to allow a player without perks to fly many planes. A year ago, players didn't have such a veriety, so this idea was inapropriate then.
Problems with this solution are:
-what do you do with the spit9? It's comparible to the P51D (perked), but it's a mid war plane. People will complain regardless of whether it's perked or not.
-slightly reduced plane choices to people without any perks. However, you'll be able to fly almost every plane type ie you can still fly a mustang, you'll just have to fly an earlier version.
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Another idea is to implement to continuously updated perk system.
If a plane is overly popular, it's ENY value and/or perk value will change on the fly. An updated point list could be made every 24 hours and could be retrieved on each log in.
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Do you think that perk tags are the reason that the 262 is the most often encountered perk plane ?
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To me it seems counterintuitive to make the "worst" players (noobs who haven't earned perk points) fly the "worst" planes (slow early war planes with weak armament). That's the outcome of perking mid-late model planes just because they are mid-late model planes.
I agree with the philosophy of perking planes not necessarily based upon performance and capability, but rather on impact on gameplay in the particular arena. I don't think inexperienced pilots flying N1Ks and LA7s have an imbalancing effect on the MA - various cited stats show this.
If all the best sticks in the game suddenly decided that the N1K was their ride, perhaps it would be different. It just works out that as you mature as a pilot, you begin to appreciate the subtle strengths of the earlier planes, and the challenge of flying them - so it balances out. The exception seems to be the P51D - plenty of awsome sticks fly that regularly. Even so, I don't think they are upsetting game balance.
Plus, if we're diligent about keeping the "dweeb" stigma on those planes, the newbies will want to graduate to different planes if only to save their reputation. The name calling probably works better than perking them would. :D (I don't hear TEMP pilots being called dweebs, and it's way more uber than a LA7).