Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Booky on October 29, 2002, 02:02:26 PM

Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Booky on October 29, 2002, 02:02:26 PM
Ok. I have to bring this up because it is pissing me off again. Seems that it isn't takeing a whole lot to do that these days.

Anyway, I understand the reason for it as to not allow you to kill your own team.

What I don't understand is why you can't make it the same as shooting your own buildings? You know, so it stops the bullets but has no effect at all? I think in the past when people said make it have no effect then people cried that there would be those just spraying through frinds to hit them. Well if you make the friend stop the round then they can't do that can they?

Well I'll stop wasting my time since HT already said he isn't ever going to change it. I just needed to Vent and give a GOOD, LOGICAL alternative to the problem.:rolleyes:

Booky
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: popeye on October 29, 2002, 02:04:21 PM
Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Dead Man Flying on October 29, 2002, 02:21:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Booky
Well if you make the friend stop the round then they can't do that can they?


Do you honestly believe that this is how it would actually work?  Sure, you'd stop some rounds, but not all of them.  The squeaking about steal killing would easily surpass the squeaking about killshooter in short order.

As it works now, the rounds you would stop just wind up killing the guy who fired them.  It never gets to the point where he fires off enough rounds that miss you and hit the enemy instead.

As a large number of those who post here claim to rarely if ever die by killshooter (myself included), there must be something that they are doing systematically right and something that those who keep dying to it are doing systematically wrong.  Instead of complaining about it, adjust like the others have done.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Mooja on October 29, 2002, 02:26:31 PM
Dead Man Flying, agreed.  If you're further away from the nme the your mate in front of you it might be time to stop shooting.  If it's really some slug that doesn't deserve the kill then he should be out of the way in short order.
Title: Killshooter Extreme
Post by: muckmaw on October 29, 2002, 02:34:28 PM
I've been killed by killshooter once...and this is the dumbest way you can possibly killshoot yourself....

I dropped a 500lb bomb on a town, from 10K AGL, and by some MIRACLE, a pony flew right through the bombs track and caught it in the canopy. BOOM I'm in the tower wondering WTF happened.

Killshooter with Bombs needs to go.

GV's...I understand, keep it as is, but AIRPLANES?!?!
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Udie on October 29, 2002, 02:39:11 PM
well it cost me 200 perkies a week and a half a go......  I hate it.  If bullets aren't going to damage a friendly they shouldn't damage you.  Why was I punished 200 perk points cause some dweeb happened to be at the intercection w/ the bandit of my 600 mph 5 mile turn.  Never even saw the friendly I shot,  I think he came up from under my target.



 Killshooter should be gone and bullets should either do damage to friendlies or none at all.....  $0.02 :)
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Nifty on October 29, 2002, 02:42:51 PM
I can still count my KS deaths in the MA on one hand.   One of them was semi-intentional.  A Mongrel had bailed and was running on the ground.  I peppered around him with 0.303's and pinged him once.  My wing fell off.  LOL!

KS is fine as is.  It's better than PNG and it's better than bullets just not doing anything.  all IMO of course.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Apache on October 29, 2002, 02:46:11 PM
I very rarely get KS'd. I don't snap shoot. Inside 200 tracking shots work best for me. Not many come inside that but several shoot over my shoulder, lol. I hear lots of explosions too.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Udie on October 29, 2002, 02:58:14 PM
Well I rarely die from KS but when I  do it pisses me off because I'm being punished for nothing I did intentionaly.  Most of my KS deaths are from 90 deg deflection shots that I timed poorly and hit 200 yrds behind the target.

 Of course I do remember CK/WB before KS and what that was like, so you may be right about the kill stealing whines.  It just sucks that we even have to have it....

 Anybody remember those HA's I used to run?  I'd turn off killshooter and turn friendly collisions on :D  Now that was some fun formation flying :eek:  And everybody played by the rules, alas there were only like 20 of us or so.....
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: SlapShot on October 29, 2002, 03:01:05 PM
Lev,

I have read quite a few of these "killshooter" post, as you have, and I don't recall anybody saying that they are consistently/constantly dying due to killshooter. This is an assumption that you are making. Some of the guys that have issues with it are GOOD pilots like yourself and probably rarely feel the sting of killshooter, but that doesn't lessen the frustration when a killstealing dweeb cause killshooter, hence an outburst.

With all the new pilots that are getting into AH, I have seen and experienced much killstealing dweebery, which will eventually lead to someone getting killshooter.

There is a minority that would like to get rid of killshooter, but if that were to happen, I agree with you, killstealing anarchy would reign. The screaming and whineing would be deafening. More so than the killshooter whine that exists today.

One the other hand, there are quite a few that would like to see the consequence of killshooter CHANGE. I would like to see HT change it to emptying all ammo and ordinance instead of ripping your plane apart. Once out of ammo and ord, you could at least try to get out of area and while flying back to base, you could contemplate 1 of 2 things:

How can I prevent killstealing dweebs from causing me killshooter in my next engagement. While contemplating this on your ride back to base, you will probably have some time to calm down.

or

I am a killstealing dweeb and how can I not cause myself killshooter the next time so I don't have to waste all this time getting back to a base to rearm/replane. Ahh .. I got ... I will zoom in front of them next time. :eek:

Killshooter as it exists, only results in a killstealing dweeb getting back to the tower at light speed and up again to do the same thing over again. Make them fly out of the situation with nothing to defend themselves with. That just might be more of a consequence.

<>
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Nifty on October 29, 2002, 03:17:54 PM
actually, the real reason I'm for killshooter is because if there wasn't a killshooter, the Mongrels would probably kick me out of the squad.  I'm as bad as an FDB about shooting squaddies.  ;)
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Ogun on October 29, 2002, 03:18:28 PM
Shoot the bad guys.  Don't shoot the good guys.  Drink plenty of water.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Creamo on October 29, 2002, 04:22:38 PM
Kill Shooter happens 98.76% to the members of tard trains. Stop flyng in mindless hordes and chasing a con, 9 on 1.

The other rare times it does is your fault too, and ought not to turn you into gameplay ranting basketcases.

BTW, for the SA challenged, turn your engine sound to 40%, and external engine sounds to 100%. You will hear the guy with the huge green icon behind you before he flys in front of your guns. As you pry are spraying away with the other tardtrainers, you might wanna turn your gun sounds down too. Wow, I should be a AH trainer like Gary the Retard.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Wotan on October 29, 2002, 05:55:26 PM
if you get killed by ks its your fault.

No one cares, learn better SA, learn to look before you shoot.


Creamo is right ks happens when 10 guys are chasing 1 bas guy. Each of you think, "This my kill" and each are wrong. If you die from ks its because you screwed up. You control your trigger.

Killer shooter is fine.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: gatso on October 29, 2002, 06:12:02 PM
What Wotan said, if you get killed by ks its your fault.

It is annoying to be killed by KS, Certain planes are more prone than others, When flying the Mossie quite a lot last tour I K/S myself 4 or 5 times because of the 0.2 second burst I fired before reaction time kicked in and I stopped shooting a friendly killstealer still made me die. It was still MY FAULT

K/S is good the way it is. 2 deaths to it this tour, both to bombs, theres been a bunch who have shot me and died. Their fault. Am I bothered... No.

Gatso
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Furious on October 29, 2002, 06:27:07 PM
If you get rid of KillShooter, how will I punish the love muffin firing over my shoulder?


F.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Ghosth on October 29, 2002, 10:44:41 PM
If your dieing more than once a month to kill shooter get out of the pack. Go hunting on your own for a change, or work with a wingman or squad mate.

Pick a good ambush point and be "patient" for a change. Read the map, think ahead!

And if there are 2 on a con, go find another.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Voss on October 30, 2002, 01:30:18 AM
Booky, the simplest solution is to stop vultching, or stop using that Chog that only requires a few hits to kill with, or learn to judge the firing point better.

Dweeb!:D
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: BlauK on October 30, 2002, 05:47:14 AM
I have been killed by the killshooter only a few times and always by having a frindly appear on my way from below my nose :(

Some solutions to this problem might be to change the punisment we get for hitting the friendlies...

-reduce the damage you recieve by half.. a good scare, but not always fatal damage.

or

-cause instant wounded effect on the shooter for hitting friendlies but no real damage. That would cut them off for a while

or

-cause temporary freeze on plane control (like the "do not move your joystick so rapidly" effect)
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Innominate on October 30, 2002, 05:57:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK

-cause instant wounded effect on the shooter for hitting friendlies but no real damage. That would cut them off for a while


I kind of like this idea...
It could work like a longish pilot-wound blackout, so it wouldn't be lethal, but would put you out of any fight for a few seconds...
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: popeye on October 30, 2002, 07:38:27 AM
Keep the KS for bombs.  May not be "realistic", but it sure is funny.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: RAS on October 30, 2002, 10:51:24 AM
Interesting ideas BlauK...though I think the original post indicated that hitech is not looking for any ideas on ways to change the KS anyway.

Wondering where the "figure" 98.76% came from in Creamo's post ??  Perhaps just a "wag" from how one "feels" getting chased in a Dora ??  Since I fly with the Rooks it is hard to invision a time when there are 9 (or 10 pilots as Wotan posted) able to get together in a conga line to chase anyone anyway.  That having been said, I suspect that 1.23% of the time is a little low to calculate how often KS takes a pilot other than in a "tardline" situation.  But since I don't know how that figure was derived, I certainly couldn't dispute it with imperical data.

Anyway....interesting ideas BlauK.

RASCAL
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Creamo on October 30, 2002, 12:47:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
If your dieing more than once a month to kill shooter get out of the pack. Go hunting on your own for a change, or work with a wingman or squad mate.

Pick a good ambush point and be "patient" for a change. Read the map, think ahead!

And if there are 2 on a con, go find another.


Thank you Gary.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: AKDejaVu on October 30, 2002, 01:07:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RAS
Wondering where the "figure" 98.76% came from in Creamo's post
Don't wonder too hard.  With an FDB it could be as simple as those numbers being in a row on the keyboard.

It still doesn't change the fact that killshooter, like it or not, promotes more realistic behavior.  Those that don't like it are indicating a preference for easier fights and easier gang-bangs.  

Watch the skies, watch your sights, watch your trigger.  Its not really that complex.

AKDejaVu
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Creamo on October 30, 2002, 02:08:09 PM
Pabst Blue Ribbon formula's RAS. Rarely are they disputed, and even then, you really think i give a toejam.?

 And it's "Tard Train". Usually followed by a "yeeehaaa! in conjuction within the Channel 1 M.A. buffer when it happens.

Much like the dispute with  "imperical data" responces. Except in that case it's better to say 'blow me'...all lower case.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Sandman on October 31, 2002, 01:17:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
if you get killed by ks its your fault.

No one cares, learn better SA, learn to look before you shoot.


Creamo is right ks happens when 10 guys are chasing 1 bas guy. Each of you think, "This my kill" and each are wrong. If you die from ks its because you screwed up. You control your trigger.

Killer shooter is fine.


I can see the argument... more often than not, when I've been bullet killed by KS, it was probably avoidable and I pushed it. I still wouldn't mind seeing something else attempted rather than assume that KS is the best and only way to fix this supposed problem.

KS by Bombs on the other hand... this just sucks. Oughta be turned off.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Booky on October 31, 2002, 04:53:35 AM
I rarely die from KS also. My point is that when I do die its because some moron flew in front of me when I was already shooting. Or someone unintentionally flew infront of me or into the bomb I dropped.

But you all are probable right about the kill stealing would increase. Like I said, I just had to vent since I got blew up again by my own bomb since someone decided to straff the town I was bombing:mad:

Booky
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: RAS on October 31, 2002, 08:06:25 AM
ahhhhhhh....."Pabst" in the equation....that explains it.......

:D
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Fatty on October 31, 2002, 10:39:12 AM
Bombs are a different argument, that actually is beyond your control.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Wotan on October 31, 2002, 12:16:58 PM
no its not you have ahv, use range channel to let umm know you are about to drop your ord. Tell umm to clear out.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Booky on October 31, 2002, 09:35:52 PM
Wotan, DUH.. Like I dont already call out when I drop bombs. Some people don't speak english or just plain dont listen.

Voss, Ill stop being a Dweeb if you do. (ya know tha TYPH stuff):D

Ghosth, you com fly ROOK, then we will see what you think about flying around alone or with just 1 wingman. ROOKs don't have the pleasure of even numbers to exercise freedome flight. But just so you know, I often do fly alone, and end in the common fate of a gangrape by 10+ bish or Knights. Hell I even got raped by 4 bish and 3 knights yesterday, not a single one of them was shooting at eachother. They all went for me :rolleyes:   Guess thats just because im so damn good in my hog that they need the boost in life of raping the one with more skills:D  Cant beat them even, then beat them uneven:rolleyes:

Hope tour resets tomarrow (Friday). Maybe they will disable killshooter for me

Booky
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: Shane on October 31, 2002, 11:29:01 PM
personally i think KS should affect *both* the shooter and shootee...

that'll learn 'em!!
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: crowMAW on November 01, 2002, 09:56:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
no its not you have ahv, use range channel to let umm know you are about to drop your ord. Tell umm to clear out.

That is probably the most asinine comment in this entire thread!

Umm...not everyone has ahv on!  Not everyone flying AH speaks English (maybe I should broadcast is 3 or 4 languages before I drop:rolleyes: )!  Not everyone is smart enough to know that when I yell out on range channel "bombs away on A25 city" that it means them!  And many don't realize or care that if they ignore my call it kills ME!

KS for bombs is stupid...period.
Title: About this beat up horse we call killshooter....
Post by: muckmaw on November 01, 2002, 10:15:06 AM
AHV is dicey at best. It's hard enough getting a sitrep on a field on VOX Range when flying a goon into the town.

Or when our squad launches a mission, and we've got the field capped and intact, some dweebs decide now is a good time to blast fuel and ord at a field we are 20 seconds from capturing. Call out on VOX to please check fire....widely ignored.

And you can forget about calling out a bomb drop. This is on the bottom of the VOX food chain, and is COMPLETLY ignored. I'm not sure if they have their vox off, or they just ignore it, but I've watched dozens of planes flashes though my bombsight when I'm dropping on a town.