Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Karnak on October 30, 2002, 09:56:30 PM

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on October 30, 2002, 09:56:30 PM

Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank"

(http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/graphics/ki-84-main.jpg)
TYPE:
Single engine fighter
CREW:
One
ENGINE:
The following engines were used by the Ki.84-I as availability permitted:
Ha-45-11, rated at 1,800hp for take-off and 1,650hp at 6,560ft.
Ha-45-12, rated at 1,925hp for take-off and 1,670hp at 7,875ft.
Ha-45-21, rated at 1,990hp for take-off and 1,850hp at 5,740ft.
Ha-45-23, rated at 1,900hp for take-off and 1,670hp at 4,725ft.
DIMENTIONS:
Wingspan:
36ft. 10 7/16in.
Length:
3ft. 6 9/16in.
Height:
11ft. 1 ¼in.
Wing area:
226 sq.ft.
WEIGHT:
Empty weight:
5,864lb.
Loaded weight:
7,955lb.
Maximum weight:
8,576lb.
Wing loading:
35.1lb./sq.ft.
PERFORMANCE: (Using a Ha-45-23, rated at 1,900hp for take-off and 1,670hp at 4,725ft.)
Maximum speed:
392mph at 20,000ft.
Sea level speed:
350-360mph
Initial climb:
3,600ft. per minute
Range:
1,050 miles
ARMAMENT:
Ia:
Wing mounted:
Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon with 150 rounds per gun
Fuselage mounted:
Two 12.7mm Type 1 (Ho-103) machine gun with 350 rounds per gun
Ib:
Wing mounted:
Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon with 150 rounds per gun
Fuselage mounted:
Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon
Ic:
Wing mounted:
Two 30mm Ho-105 cannon
Fuselage mounted:
Two 20mm Ho-5 cannon
EXTERNAL STORES:
Two 250kg bombs, or two 44 gallon drop tanks, or one 44 gallon drop tank to port and one 250kg bomb to starboard
NUMBER BUILT:
3,514


The Ki.84-I was the third most produced fighter used by Japan in WWII.  It was also the most produced aircraft in a year in Japanese history.  It was Japan's best fighter, entering service in April, 1944 and serving through the rest of the war. It was produced in ten times the number of the N1K2-J, and it entered service much earlier.

The Ki.84-I is the last great Main Arena fighter left to be added, the last fighter that will have a significant impact on which aircraft get used and in what numbers.

The best fighters of Germany, Italy, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States have all been added.  It is time for the Ki.84-I to be added to Aces High.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: palef on October 30, 2002, 10:04:22 PM

Only if it's perked

That thing'll be worse than that damn N1K2-J

palef

Title: Re: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on October 30, 2002, 10:11:45 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
The best fighters of Italy,

Uh..... nuh uh!
-SW

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Hristo on October 30, 2002, 10:22:07 PM

a great looking plane too

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on October 30, 2002, 10:22:53 PM

It has the same engine as the N1K2-J, I wounder If we get it neutered, or if they will do that after we have had it for a while:)

 I would love to see this plane.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on October 30, 2002, 10:25:56 PM

Yes, add this one please.  IMO it's the most-needed Japanese fighter, and probably the most-needed fighter, period.


Perked?  No need, unless it flies with US test data  :)

Compared to the N1K2, it's faster, but doesn't climb as well (no "magic chopper" here), doesn't have as much firepower (we'd probably get a Ia variant), and isn't as durable.  Maneuverability by most accounts is a hair worse than the N1K2, by AH standards probably on par with the Spit 9.  

In other words, it'd be a perfect fit for the current MA.


J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Puck on October 30, 2002, 10:28:23 PM

According to my book the Ki-84-Ib has a pair of Ho-5 20mm cannon replacing the cowl-mounted machine guns.  The -Ic had the wing cannon replaced with Ho-105 30mm cannon.

Sounds to me like a nice addition to the fleet.  We've got the German, Russian, and American monsters well represented.

Speaking of which, the J2M3 could be interesting.

While we're at is let's put in a request for the Ki-43.  The Hyabusa was probably the most important army fighter of the war.  The variant with Ho-5 cannons would fit right in with the rest of the MA  mid-war turnfighters.

...and no commentary on Japansese aircraft would be complete without a plug for the H8K2  :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on October 30, 2002, 10:38:37 PM

The percentage of Ki.84-Is armed with four 20mm canon far exceeded the percentage of La-7s armed with three 20mm cannon, yet we have that option.

Honestly though, if I could pick two gun packages it'd be the two 12.7mm and two 20mm guns as one package and the two 20mm and two 30mm guns as the second package.  That would give the Japanese a needed bomber buster.


While I am happy to see new Japanese aircraft such as the B5N being added (the thing that bothers me is the composition of the oppostion, not the B5N or D3A1 themselves), it would be nice to get a high production, powerful Japanese fighter.


For the time being, I am going to content myself with imagining formations of H8K2s with high cover provided by Ki.84-Is giving back to the American forces what they have given to us with their P-51D and B-17G combination.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on October 30, 2002, 11:06:10 PM

"It has the same engine as the N1K2-J, I wounder If we get it neutered, or if they will do that after we have had it for a while "

Aaah.  I see someone IS paying attention.


  Why do you bother.  We all know that life as we know it, would end if a KI-84, or -100, where to show up in AH.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on October 30, 2002, 11:13:27 PM

When it comes, and I have no doubt that it will, I hope we get the one with the 1,990hp Ha-45-21 so as to have a true 400mph fighter for Japan.

Not to mention making life all that much harder for the F4U and P-51 boys.:D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on October 30, 2002, 11:52:55 PM

Why Ha-45-23? Ki-84-I changed engine to Ha-45-21.

Ha-45-21 Engine Performance from Instruction Manual
Take off Power: 2000hp/3000rpm (manifold air pressure: +500mmHg)
Normal Power: 1550hp/2780rpm/2500m (manifold air pressure: +200mmHg)
1st Military Power: 1890hp/3000rpm/1800m (manifold air pressure: +350mmHg)
2nd Military Power: 1700hp/3000rpm/6400m (manifold air pressure: +350mmHg)

BTW I-Otsu (I-b) had 150 rounds in each cannon.

Compared to the N1K2, I think it would be faster, and has better acceleration, a little better roll, and excellent rudder moment. I don't think it has worse climb. AH N1K2-J climbs to 5000m in approx 5'50". Ki-84-I could climb to 5000m in 5'54". It's very close.

About maneuverability, though Ki-84 had "Butterfly-Type" Fowler Combat Flap, it had heavy nose especially when fowler flaps are full open. In TnB, it would be disadvantage against N1K2 (btw USA reported Ki-84 out-maneuvered Spitfire).

OK. Anyway, as far as I saw F6F-5 in AH, surely Ki-84 Hayate would be a terrible plane in MA. :)

Bring Ki-84 to Aces High!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Hristo on October 30, 2002, 11:54:26 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak

Not to mention making life all that much harder for the F4U and P-51 boys.:D

In main, it will make life harder for all the boys ;). But that's another story.

Ki-84 is already late, I wonder how much longer we wait for it.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on October 30, 2002, 11:58:13 PM

I may pay 29.95 dollars for it.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on October 30, 2002, 11:58:32 PM

Great.
 
 400mph plane that turns tighter than a Spitfire.

 ...

 Can't wait to see it in the MA!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: bizket on October 31, 2002, 12:20:33 AM

Ahhhhhhhh the Ki84, king of the uber planes!! Turns like a spit and climbs like a V2. The only thing it cant do is dive....... thank God for that;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Samm on October 31, 2002, 12:39:28 AM

Considering the screams of "perk it " we've had to endure with the mediocre n1k2. Can you imagine the "perk it" hysteria when this bird is introduced ? People just hate competitive japanese planes .

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on October 31, 2002, 01:08:54 AM

Yeah it's a 400 MPH fighter with the turning ability of the Spitfire.  Of course, the Spitfire is itself a 400 MPH fighter so I don't see what the problem is  :)  

Compared to the Spit 9 the Ki-84 would be faster at low altitude, but it would have worse climbrate (especially at alt) and worse E-retention.  It also wouldn't dive as well.   Turning ability is VERY close to that of the Spit 9, a hair better or a little worse depending on which source you use.

Yes it's a good fighter.  But it's not "uber" by any means, and it'd make a GREAT addition to the AH MA.   It would also work wonders for the CT.


J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Urchin on October 31, 2002, 01:44:43 AM

Ki-84 is one of the only planes I think there is left to add that people will actually fly in the MA.  Not because there are a whole lot of "Frank" fans out there either.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on October 31, 2002, 05:18:11 AM

Well I am a Frank Fan, I am also a N1K2-J fan but I hardely ever fly it, tooo dweaby, but then again I try very hard to stay away from those easy kill rides, spits, La-7 ect...

 I would love to fly it and probably be labled a dweab for doing so but what the h!ll:)

 I am almost 100% certain that No production Ki 84 entered service with the 30mm cannon as a standard feature, from all acounts I have seen save one(Buschells KI 84 book), this simply is not so, It is commonly held that he was in eror on this issue.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: aztec on October 31, 2002, 05:41:38 AM

I'm a Frank fan , and an Oscar fan and a Zeke fan and a George fan too, however not flying it is one of a couple concessions I make to the vast hoardes of crybabies in AH. I hope we do get the Frank someday...looking forward to all the little girl squealing it will bring.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on October 31, 2002, 06:35:47 AM

I would also really like to see it in AH; the sooner the better.

Nice post, Karnak.   :cool:

Title: Re: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: gatt on October 31, 2002, 06:48:59 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
The best fighters of Germany, Italy, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States have all been added.  It is time for the Ki.84-I to be added to Aces High.

No, we need the G.55 "Centauro" for high altitude fights and the G.56 as a perk plane :)

And yes, bring the Ki-84. And a 1943-44 clipped wing Spitfire IX as well.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kwan on October 31, 2002, 07:39:45 AM

Been wanting a KI84 in AH since I left (WB) years ago.

I would probably fly it almost exclusively.


A KI84 Dweeb.................  :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Zigrat on October 31, 2002, 07:40:34 AM

show me the shoki

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on October 31, 2002, 09:13:33 AM

show me the hayate

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Turbot on October 31, 2002, 09:32:05 AM

ki84, p39, stuka, hienkel, p38 variants, etc etc (and what about those rockets on the f8)  people write about all the time asking for.  I have not been here too awfully long, but it seems more likely we will sooner get something we didn't know we wanted :)   It is all a mystery, but at least we will get something, and that is better than some other games that get nothing new at all.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Charon on October 31, 2002, 09:33:53 AM

This is about the last glaring omission for the late-war MA. It was also one of my main rides in AW, so I would like to see the AH modeling in action on this bird. Everything else is frosting on the cake. Not that frosting is bad, I like frosting.

Charon

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: NOD2000 on October 31, 2002, 12:18:39 PM

You see people there is technical then there is Mitsu

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on October 31, 2002, 01:43:52 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Mitsu
Why Ha-45-23? Ki-84-I changed engine to Ha-45-21?

My information said that the Ha-45-21 was only used in the few produced Ki.84-IIs.  That's why I eliminated it from the engine list.


Mitsu,

Can you provide HTC with the flight performance data for the Ki.84-I using the Ha-45-21?

If so, that would be great.

As I understand it, the 392mph top speed is not nearly the best model.

Title: Re: Re: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Widewing on October 31, 2002, 02:17:07 PM

Quote

Originally posted by gatt


No, we need the G.55 "Centauro" for high altitude fights and the G.56 as a perk plane :)

And yes, bring the Ki-84. And a 1943-44 clipped wing Spitfire IX as well.

The Reggianne 2005 would be nice to have as well!

My regards,

Widewing

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on October 31, 2002, 04:58:41 PM

Quote

Yeah it's a 400 MPH fighter with the turning ability of the Spitfire. Of course, the Spitfire is itself a 400 MPH fighter so I don't see what the problem is

 Hmm.. come to think of it.. I think you're totally right ;) Somehow I pictured a "400mph on deck alts" fighter.. a La-7 that turned like a Spit.. :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Tumor on October 31, 2002, 05:24:21 PM

It's a love-hate thing.  I'd love to see this one in the game... I'm gonna hate it being there :D

Tumor

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on October 31, 2002, 07:18:06 PM

The last campaign for a aircraft like this ended in the spit xiv and near endless whining by the person that fought for it.
hope this is different.

Title: the more the merrier
Post by: moot on October 31, 2002, 07:35:03 PM

but

Quote

Originally posted by brady
It has the same engine as the N1K2-J, I wounder If we get it neutered[...]

HT said himself there were never any changes to any FM or any other RL performance to fix gameplay.
Only thing I saw that was anywhere near fixing was something also said by HT about blast radii which went something like
"[...]blast radius was never (neutered), but object hardness increased[...]"; excuse the possible fault of memory.

What is curious is (for example) to all the Ta152's engine power BB debate, Pyro only commented on one of the supposed two boost systems.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on October 31, 2002, 08:26:30 PM

"HT said himself there were never any changes to any FM or any other RL performance to fix gameplay"

lol.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Slash27 on October 31, 2002, 08:32:08 PM

So does all our input for wanting this plane help us get it?

Just wondering if the large amounts of requests have gotten us a plane in the past.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on October 31, 2002, 08:47:43 PM

Ya, I beleave the post in the past contributed to planes like the , FW 190F8, A bunch of P47 varients, The Ta 152, ect...

  Their are a number of quiet obvious "game Play conschions in AH", the AA gunners on all the Vehicals, 50Cal. letahlity aganst GV's, Ship Damage model,Ect, they aint no Virgens in this Regard:), some are obviously nescessary, and certainly all could be debated till the end of time.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on October 31, 2002, 10:35:00 PM

let's get the Ki-84 and maybe down tweak the n1k2-j hanging on a single engine prop with no prop torque hmmm.. If it could do that in real life lemme know :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 01, 2002, 01:39:38 AM

I challenge anybody to come up with an aircraft that will get used for as many hours per month as the Ki.84 will that is left to be added to AH.

Name an aircraft that would give a greater return on the work HTC puts into it that isn't already in the game.

And keep it real.  No suggestions of He162s or other obvious perk planes, and no aircraft that didn't fight in WWII.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Fariz on November 01, 2002, 01:51:13 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
I challenge anybody to come up with an aircraft that will get used for as many hours per month as the Ki.84 will that is left to be added to AH.
 

Yak3

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Lazerus1 on November 01, 2002, 02:05:46 AM

I still think the Re2005 should be added if late war planes from all countries are added. Sure, it had low production numbers and was used for a relatively short period of time, but it was the best Italy had to offer, it's within the time frame of the war, and was used by Germany after Italy surrendered.

If you argue the number of planes per country, then Italy has the fewest offered in AH at only two, and I'd be happy to see an Italian bomber be passed up for a late war Italian fighter. I'm all for another Japanese fighter, or a couple of new Jap fighters. I would just appreciate a little more attention to the other arm of the Axis powers.

And stat experts can give numbers saying how many were produced, how many were destroyed, and how many are unaccounted for, and thats not my point. It's just a request for even representaion for late war planes for all countries. I'll post the spec sheets I've found for the Re2005 tomorrow. There are several that give reduced stats for the plane, but the official numbers are available if you look a little harder. Some great pics out there too.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Glasses on November 01, 2002, 02:32:21 AM

The Ki-84 :

5 out of 5 Macross

Bring it to Aces High
Long over due and in need for my good friend Mitsu who has given so  much to the community.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 01, 2002, 03:01:06 AM

Fariz,

Yak-3 lacks suffient firepower.  That'd keep many out of it.

Lazerus1,

I agree that the Re.2005 of G.55 would make nice additions, much like the Ta152H-1 (which needs its GM-1 boost effect added), but like the Ta152 and unlike the Ki.84, they were not mainline fighters.

That is why in my opening post I stated that Italy already had its best fighter.  The C.205 was the best fighter Italy produced that saw substantial combat, and even that fighter was produced in less than 7.5% of the numbers of the Ki.84.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on November 01, 2002, 04:20:35 AM

While I wholehardedly Suport the adation of the Ki 84 we can not use production numbers to determine a planes adation to AH, their is no evedance that is is in any way a factor nore should it be. IMO The Re 2005 or the G.55 are Italys best fighters(s) and theirfore worth inclushion, not only for this reasion but because of what awsome planes they were and how much use they would also get, Besides Italy only half surendered in 43, those planes were used by the Itaians after Sept. 43 as well.

             

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Hristo on November 01, 2002, 05:55:27 AM

Ki.84 will most likely see double the usage of Yak-3, IMO.

Let's have them both and compare ;).

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Fariz on November 01, 2002, 06:58:51 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Hristo
Ki.84 will most likely see double the usage of Yak-3, IMO.

Let's have them both and compare ;).

Probably, you are right. Ok, how about Spitfire IX LF? :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: thrila on November 01, 2002, 07:33:21 AM

Aww fariz got there first.  Bring the spitfire LF mk IX (clipped wings please:) ) to aces High.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 01, 2002, 10:05:00 AM

RAF and Luftwaffe always comes in pairs :D

 bring the lfMkIX and the G-14 to Aces High! :)

 (of course, after the Ki-84 is introduced!)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 01, 2002, 10:18:56 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
I challenge anybody to come up with an aircraft that will get used for as many hours per month as the Ki.84 will that is left to be added to AH.

Name an aircraft that would give a greater return on the work HTC puts into it that isn't already in the game.

And keep it real.  No suggestions of He162s or other obvious perk planes, and no aircraft that didn't fight in WWII.

Any real late war spit IX would be used more. Especially if it had a bubble canopy.  THe IL10 might get alot of use. The US twin 40mm on an m24 chassis would be increadably poplular looking at ostwind usage. The P47N would be very popular. As would the Bearcat.
I have often wondered what some of the early alison P51s would be like in the MA especially the 4 hispano ones. Werent they purportedly very very fast on the deck, which is a paramount advantage in the MA.

Lots of planes out there that answer your question. But I am looking forward to the Ki84 as well.
I think that Italian prototypes have no more place in the game then other coutries prototypes. And if we start getting them lets start with the Mb5.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Urchin on November 01, 2002, 01:22:43 PM

I think that if we ever get the early Mustang (or maybe Mustang I, I can't remember) that had 4 Hispanos, the P-51D usage would drop to about what the P-51B use is now.  

The P-47N wouldn't see much use, it actually performed worse than the Ds did because it had so much more fuel.  Now, the P-47M might see some use.  I only know it was fast, don't know if the dogfighting performance and acceleration improved, but if it did they'd see significantly more use than our P-47s.  

A Spitfire LF Mk IX would see some significant use, most of the people that fly the Spit IX now and N1K2 would switch to it.

Those are about the only planes other than the Ki-84 and maybe the Yak-3 that would see any real use in the MA.

Now, what I think would be terrible funny is if we get a G.55 or Re2005 and it performs so well it becomes the new La-7 or N1K2.  I'd just find that humerous :).

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on November 01, 2002, 01:42:32 PM

The Mustang I was indeed fast on the deck.....by 1943/1943 standards.  It'd be about average in the MA speed-wise--not super fast, but still no slouch.

"I think that if we ever get the early Mustang (or maybe Mustang I, I can't remember) that had 4 Hispanos, the P-51D usage would drop to about what the P-51B use is now. "

Then that my friend is reason enough to add it  :)     I always liked flying the P-51D better in that "other" game where only a relatively few people used it.  


A spitfire LF.IX would see a lot of use....10 MPH faster anf 500 FPM more climbrate at normal altitudes than the current Spit 9.....yeah, it's see so much use it might end up being a cheap perk like the C-hog (the unfortunate result of the British having such awesome fighters).  Possibly not though, so it'd be a worthy addition either way.

The Yak-3 would see some use in either of its forms, it'd likely be used by players who like the performance of the Spit 9/N1K2 but want something.....unique.  The earlier 1300 HP Yak-3 would probably be the best addition, for from a scenario/CT perspective and in terms of MA balance.  The major limiting factors of the Yak-3 are lack of range and tiny ammo load.

Bf-109K-4:  If this fighter is added, one would hope it'd be an earlier model K-4 (426 MPH) to represent the earlier batch of upgraded 109's Germany starting using (we already have a 450 MPH 109).  The K-4 would likely become the dominant 109 in the MA since it'd handle better at high speed than the current choices.

The Ki-84, however, is the BEST choice of any of them.   It's a Japanese fighter and would do much to balance CT setups and it also has a lot of utility for events.  It has enough firepower and performance that people would fly it, WITHOUT it becomming too dominating (assumming that it is modeled using Japanese data).  In addition, it's not am American or British fighter and hence would add more variety to the "color" of the MA.


Add the Ki-84!

J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: slimm50 on November 01, 2002, 01:59:38 PM

Quote

from Kweassa:400mph plane that turns tighter than a Spitfire.

Yeah, but yas gotta watch out fer them wings comin off, and for "blackout city". They're all limited by human physiology...ain't they?:D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 01, 2002, 03:57:23 PM

Love how he did the flaps.


http://204.50.25.179/gallery01/ki84bc_2.htm

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on November 01, 2002, 04:12:52 PM

Those Italian "prototypes" saw squaderon service, and were in Production, that is they were no longer protypes:) I will say this though, I would rather see a C 200 and or a Z 1007, be more usefull in the CT and for events.

 Pongo, could you help me with somthing I have been trying to find info on, I thought I read whear the Twin 40mm on the M24 chaises was in Europe in WW2, but I cant seam to find whear it says so in any of my book's, do you by chance have a refernace for this?

 On the subject of adding yet mor spits and US planes, I would say that I would hope That Japan, Russia, and Italy get some love first.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 01, 2002, 04:38:30 PM

NO
cause you will hang out behind a bomber hanger and vulch me.
I retract my statement on the Italian planes if they saw service.  But I bet fewer were made then many protoypes in other countries.

Ill look for the info Brady.
I thought the brits said they had no faster plane on the deck then the early mustang till the tempest.
Ill look for that too.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 01, 2002, 05:15:46 PM

Quote

Originally posted by easymo
Love how he did the flaps.


http://204.50.25.179/gallery01/ki84bc_2.htm

lol, DT is yellow. :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 01, 2002, 05:19:05 PM

Bring this hayate to Aces High! :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on November 01, 2002, 06:11:52 PM

All last night after reading this post I kept thinking how nice it would be to see somthing other than Spit's, and La-7's...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 01, 2002, 06:25:01 PM

Since we are fantasizing about something thats not going to happen.  How about this.

Ki-84-Ib: Ia with four 20mm.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 01, 2002, 06:37:06 PM

To truly, ask for the whine list.:)





The Ki-84-II was a Ki-84-I with different engine and armament.

Data for Ki-84-II:

Engine: one Nakajima Ho-45-21 at 1,990 hp

Speed: 416 mph

For all other performance numbers, see Ki-84-Ia

Armament: either four Ho-5s or two Ho-5s above engine and two 30mm. Ho-105 cannon in wings.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on November 01, 2002, 06:58:57 PM

AFIK, all books that list the 30mm on the Frank as a mass produced fighter varent are in error, Buschells book refrencing this is not correct, or So I have been lead to beleave.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 01, 2002, 07:25:45 PM

You misunderstand about Ki-84 a little.

There was no Ki-84-II. or maybe few experimental prototypes...
Ki-84-II was wooden at some parts...rear fuselage, horizontal stab, and wing tip (note: it's not Tachikawa's Ki-106 wooden hayate).
It's also known for equipping with Ha-45-21/23/25 engines.

Early Ki-84-Is (prototypes) had Ha-45-11 though, actually most Ki-84-Is were equipped with Ha-45-21 engine.

Here is a picture of engine spec from Nakajima's Ki-84-I Instruction Manual.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 01, 2002, 11:01:32 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
Any real late war spit IX would be used more. Especially if it had a bubble canopy.  THe IL10 might get alot of use. The US twin 40mm on an m24 chassis would be increadably poplular looking at ostwind usage. The P47N would be very popular. As would the Bearcat.
I have often wondered what some of the early alison P51s would be like in the MA especially the 4 hispano ones. Werent they purportedly very very fast on the deck, which is a paramount advantage in the MA.

A later war Merlin Spitfire may very well be a cheap perk plane without a perk tag, like the F4U-1C, otherwise you're probably correct.

I doubt the Il-10 could approach the usage of any late war fighter.

The M24 with twin 40mm would almost certainly be a perk vehicle, based on how close the Ostwind came to being perked.

Unless the P-47N is vastly more user friendly than the P-47D-30 it would not even begin to approach the Ki.84's usage.  As I understand it the P-47N would be pretty much like a longer ranged P-47D-30.  The P-47M would, of course, be a perk plane.

The F8F Bearcat doesn't really have a place in AH in my opinion, but should HTC add it (hey, it's their game and as egotistical as I can be I don't actually delude myself that my opinion matters) it would be perked, highly so.

The P-51A with four Hispano's might be used more.  I'd have to know more about its performance envelope and ammo load to give a stronger opinion.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Turbot on November 01, 2002, 11:24:31 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
later war Merlin Spitfire may very well be a cheap perk plane without a perk tag, like the F4U-1C, otherwise you're probably correct.

Sp14 even without the tag would still die.  Look at logs for Ct events where sp14 was free.  SP14 is probably a g10 equal in my totally uninformed opinion - but there you have it.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 02, 2002, 12:07:30 AM

?
The truth is that any plane that would be popular in the MA is going to be a potential perk plane to alot of players.

I dont know about the il10. 85-100 mph faster then the il2 on the deck and at alt. It can give a good account for itself against an la5fn according to my reading and can have a 20mm in the rear gun position..Armoured like an il2..
nasty nasty nasty..
Quite distinctive in the MA where the ki84 would be just another fighter.

the big issue with the ki84 is what will it be like. Lots of disention about the nature of the performance of the plane based on how it was tested...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 02, 2002, 12:32:02 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
the big issue with the ki84 is what will it be like. Lots of disention about the nature of the performance of the plane based on how it was tested...

True.

I have a range of performance specs in my mind that I expect it to fall within.

I had the same for the Mosquito Mk VI.  It beat all my most optimistic expectations except for durabilty, where it was about the worst I was guessing.

I'm keen to see where the Ki.84 comes out.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on November 02, 2002, 05:30:45 AM

"I have a range of performance specs in my mind that I expect it to fall within. "


Exactly.   It's not so much a question of how it performs, but which data set HTC chooses to use when they decide to add it.

J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 02, 2002, 12:27:16 PM

LOL. I have to admire your optimism.  We have been asking for this thing since beta.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on November 02, 2002, 02:29:09 PM

Oh, they WILL add it eventually.

We just don't know when  :)


J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 03, 2002, 12:27:46 AM

Karnak, I have only TAIC Manual, and ATAD data which Butch2K provided.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 03, 2002, 01:34:23 AM

Mitsu,



I was hoping you had the good performance data.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 03, 2002, 01:49:21 AM

But they can learn these performance curves for AH Ki-84.
Uh, I believe Pyro has already got them.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 03, 2002, 05:45:26 PM

Oh no you don't.   This baby's going right back to the top!
:D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on November 03, 2002, 09:19:29 PM

lol

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 04, 2002, 12:12:37 PM

Slippery little bastige, aren't ya?    Upsy-daisy!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 04, 2002, 08:19:52 PM

The Japanese really need a late war fighter that has insurance against the Allied whiners in the CT.

The N1K2-J fails to deliver because it has no insurance against gripes about the small numbers used and gripes about how late it entered the war.

There were 3,514 Ki.84s built.  That is the third most produced fighter from Japan, losing only to the A6M with 10,937 produced and the Ki.43 with 5,919 produced.  There were only 406 N1K2-Js produced. Because the Ki.84 was so common from mid 1944 on the Allied fliers can't get rid of it without also talking away their late war fighters.

The Ki.84 entered full squadron service in April, 1944.  That is a month before the P-51D entered squadron service, and three monts before either the F6F-5 or P-38L entered service.  The N1K2-J may have entered squadron service as early as November, 1944, but the first combats that I can find for the N1K2-J happen in January, 1945.  Once again the Ki.84 delivers insurance against the Allied fliers being able to get rid of it without getting rid of their own late war fighters.

We need the Ki.84.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: dtango on November 04, 2002, 11:16:31 PM

I remember being tormented by the Ki-84 back in AW DOS days!  It would make life more difficult for sure but that's 1/2 the fun IMHO- having other challenging a/c to match up against.  I agree that this would be a great plan to add to the AH planeset and quite confident that Pyro has data on this plane.

Mitsu or Karnak, would you guys mind posting more performance data on the Ki-84?  I'd like to see especially the max level speed curves and also the Ha-45-23 or Ha-45-21 power curves as well.  Want to run some numbers to get a gauge as to the performance for fun.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 04, 2002, 11:33:56 PM

(http://www3.telus.net/pongo/perk2.jpg)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: dtango on November 05, 2002, 08:44:29 AM

Pongo!  That's  great pic!  Also the one of the La-7 you had looked great too!  Where are you getting those?

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 05, 2002, 09:14:36 AM

what about escorting kate with ki84 in V1.11?!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 05, 2002, 10:06:02 AM

The ki84 is from some japanese site I found and is a rendered piece of digital art.
The la7 was in game art from IL2 forgotten battles

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: texter on November 05, 2002, 09:22:17 PM

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
Yes it's a good fighter.  But it's not "uber" by any means, and it'd make a GREAT addition to the AH MA.   It would also work wonders for the CT.


J_A_B

yes it is, uber that is :)

also it's a "gurleyman" plane (tm NoBaddy)

and if it's added then it's mine!! all mine! get away!

Tex

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 06, 2002, 07:31:13 PM

Quote

Originally posted by dtango
Mitsu or Karnak, would you guys mind posting more performance data on the Ki-84?  I'd like to see especially the max level speed curves and also the Ha-45-23 or Ha-45-21 power curves as well.  Want to run some numbers to get a gauge as to the performance for fun.

I'm sorry, but I don't have any graphs of the Ki.84's performance.

I think Mitsu might have the TAIC charts.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: llbm_MOL on November 06, 2002, 07:48:31 PM

At evey AH CON I have been to I have asked Pyro when we will get the Ki84. He keeps telling me its coming soon. Well I've been to three AH Cons and still no Ki84. Don't hold your breath.

Been missing this plane since I left WB's. If they make it as sweet as it was in WB's I will be in it everytime I go up.



LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 07, 2002, 06:39:41 AM

I hope we get it in v1.11, and I hope its worth this long wait.



(http://www.concentric.net/~Twist/airwar/ki84/ki84.jpg)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on November 07, 2002, 07:24:07 AM

Pongo do you by chance have the link, I used to have it on my old hard drive before the melt down, havent been able to get it back:(

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 08, 2002, 07:05:22 AM

brady,

You should be able to get the link by right-clicking on the image and selecting "properties" from the popup window.    The URL will be listed there.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Glasses on November 08, 2002, 07:09:47 AM

Yes Puhlease Bring Ol' Frank for 1.11  :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on November 08, 2002, 07:11:24 AM

Huh, interesting, dident work,but I can see pongos living room:)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Edbert on November 08, 2002, 11:31:23 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Kwan
Been wanting a KI84 in AH since I left (WB) years ago.

I would probably fly it almost exclusively.


A KI84 Dweeb.................  :)

Wow, another guy registered in '99 with very few posts eh?

Oh wait...he's a squaddie i've been flyin-&-dyin with for ~6 years too!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 08, 2002, 12:09:59 PM

I wanna know an info about Ki planes for the next version.
The Kate only? or do you have something yet?

Tell us it please...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 08, 2002, 12:49:18 PM

I second Mitsu's very polite request!

Please, let us know if any Nakajimas are coming beyond the B5N.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 09, 2002, 10:58:21 AM

"Oh no ya don't. You're going straight to the top!"

 * punt! *
 * smack! *
 * slap! *

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 09, 2002, 11:52:23 AM

*bump!*

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 09, 2002, 04:31:31 PM

Quote

Originally posted by brady
Pongo do you by chance have the link, I used to have it on my old hard drive before the melt down, havent been able to get it back:(

sorry brady, missed this, do you mean the link to that japanese art site where I got this?
(http://www3.telus.net/pongo/perk1.jpg)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Samm on November 09, 2002, 06:32:43 PM

Pongo that would be a supreme whine generator ! a7m ?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 10, 2002, 07:44:09 PM

Hail Mary!!!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on November 10, 2002, 08:12:13 PM

THis is worthy of being a 100-post thread.....

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on November 10, 2002, 08:16:01 PM

So I'll turn it into one  :)


J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 11, 2002, 05:02:10 PM

Mit, do you have the skills to build a KI-84 for Target Rabal?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 11, 2002, 09:13:09 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo

Lots of planes out there that answer your question. But I am looking forward to the Ki84 as well.
I think that Italian prototypes have no more place in the game then other coutries prototypes. And if we start getting them lets start with the Mb5.

Pongo, I respect your opinion, but I think you are missing the point a little here. Fiat G.55's were built as 'Serie 0'  pre-production models and 'Serie I' production a/c. The 'Serie 0' G.55's were *not* prototypes. The phrase "pre-production" simply denotes that these a/c were not being built to projected production specs (in this case the 'Serie 0' didn't have wing-mounted MG 151/20s but 4 x 12.7mm HMGs in the nose). Note that both 'Serie 0' and 'Serie I' G.55s saw action.

As far as the Re.2005 is concerned, the few dozen (definitely less than 40) a/c made were all pre-production models. Again, there is a distinction between "pre-production" and " prototype". The Re.2005's that saw action were *not* protos.

I do agree with your logic re: prototypes in general, however. It would preclude the inclusion of a/c like the A7M or Go 229. The moment you include one proto in the planeset, it's a case of "one in, all in", AFAIC.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 11, 2002, 11:14:53 PM

I think thats a real hard call. pre production..prototype...
Bad can of worms to open. Yes it shows that Italian AC design did not stop with the 205 but wow.  Imagine the AC that would be available if we start to blur that line.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 12, 2002, 03:55:33 AM

*KICK!*

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 12, 2002, 05:16:28 AM

punt.

Ki-84 "Hayate" which has been tested by USA.

(1) Weight
Gross: 3600kg (fuel 503kg, no bombs)
Gross: 3600kg (fuel 503kg, no bombs)
Overload: 4670kg (947kg, no bombs)

(2) Speed (weight at 3600kg)
Maximum: 563km/h @ S.L.
WEP: 584km/h @ S.L.
Maximum: 686km/h @ 7100m
WEP: 687km/h @ 6100m
Crusing (75%): 409km/h @ 450m

(3) Fuel Capacities
Internal: 700LTR
External: 660LTR
Maximum: 1360LTR

(4) Range
Maximum range: 2920km at 280km/h @ 450m (Fuel 1360LTR)
(Maximum fuel):  2270km at 388km/h @ 450m (Fuel 1360LTR)
Maximum range: 1650km at 290km/h @ 450m (Fuel 700LTR)
(Normal fuel): 1260km at 410km/h @ 450m (Fuel 700LTR)

(5) Armament
12.7mm x 2 (350rds each, fixed)
20mm x 2 (150rds each, fixed)

(6) Note
"Speed vs Range" chart (an upper left graph) is recorded at Normal Power.
"Climb Time" chart (a bottom right) is recorded at Military Power.
At upper right and bottom left graphs, dashed line shows the WEP, other lines show the military power.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 12, 2002, 05:28:37 AM

Pongo I think its entirely unfair and illogical to directly compare the "prototype" status and AH viability of an aircraft from something like the gigantic standardized US, German, UK, Soviet etc air force structures and the very small, almost butique style practically handbuilt Italian airforce's fighter establishments.

Im saying the Re2005 or G55 should be in the game, there is simply nothing in the US or LW or RAF or VVS airforces that compares to their status. And the planes both saw useful combat in the  Italian airforce, the MB5 never did and only two were built so thats kinda reaching...

I trust you are mature and intelligent enough to see the obvious difference here and there is no need to be absolutely rigid and inflexible as such attitides are simply childish obstruction tactics.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 12, 2002, 09:08:50 AM

about the speed vs alt graph, is that using different fuel loadouts or different engines or well...what do the 3 different lines represent?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 12, 2002, 03:43:45 PM

Pyro would say "A new Ki is coming..." in next news.
It is just excited news, isn't it!? ;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 12, 2002, 03:50:48 PM

Kaz,

The leftmost curve shows an overload weight performance in that graph. Other curves show a normal weight performance at WEP and military power.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 12, 2002, 06:12:28 PM

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Pongo I think its entirely unfair and illogical to directly compare the "prototype" status and AH viability of an aircraft from something like the gigantic standardized US, German, UK, Soviet etc air force structures and the very small, almost butique style practically handbuilt Italian airforce's fighter establishments.

Im saying the Re2005 or G55 should be in the game, there is simply nothing in the US or LW or RAF or VVS airforces that compares to their status. And the planes both saw useful combat in the  Italian airforce, the MB5 never did and only two were built so thats kinda reaching...

I trust you are mature and intelligent enough to see the obvious difference here and there is no need to be absolutely rigid and inflexible as such attitides are simply childish obstruction tactics.

Well sure..I am mature and well ballenced everyone knows that..I am talking about the dweeb that gets killed by the "pre production" italian AC and wants a Production P51H, Bearcat, P80, Vampire, Fw190D12,  xb40 to fight it with. Or better yet...
wants a Pre production fw190 as in a BOB scenario...
Just saying that its a can of worms.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on November 12, 2002, 07:13:57 PM

"Im saying the Re2005 or G55 should be in the game, there is simply nothing in the US or LW or RAF or VVS airforces that compares to their status"


He-100.   A number of pre-production aircraft were built, which saw some use.  It was never built in quantity though.


Mitsu's chart is quite nice.  It repesents how the Ki-84 performed using US AV gas, which is better performance than the Japanese could get from it  :)


J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 12, 2002, 11:22:24 PM

Man Goebbles was good!

He's still dooping peaople with his He100 propaganda 62 years later. A few were built, yes, but they were never used, their service to the fatherland was limited to propaganda photograps in fake gerschwader makings. :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 12, 2002, 11:34:33 PM

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Man Goebbles was good!

He's still dooping peaople with his He100 propaganda 62 years later. A few were built, yes, but they were never used, their service to the fatherland was limited to propaganda photograps in fake gerschwader makings. :D

I understand some were sold the the IJN.

They hated them, but given the IJN's bias' of the time that would make lots of sense.

The Japanese and Italians both placed much too high a value on classical manuverability and too low a value on speed and firepower.  The lack of durability in early Japanese aircraft is simply an extension of the desire for supreme manuverability and not a desired trait in and of itself.

Both the Japanese and Italians realized, too late, that speed and firepower were the ultimate requirements of a fighter, with manuverability being a nice bonus if you could get it.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on November 12, 2002, 11:56:38 PM

BTW the propaganda effort labeled them as "He-113"'s and was indeed rather successful.    The He-100's were used (note: I didn't say combat) after that as local defence of the Heinkel factory, which wasn't being bombed at that time.

There are conflicting reports as to what eventually happened to the dozen or so He-100D-1's, perhaps they were scrapped, perhaps they eventually got involved in combat somewhere and got shot down, nobody seems to know.


J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 13, 2002, 09:02:59 AM

bump

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Turbot on November 13, 2002, 10:01:20 AM

Determining what planes are appropriate depends on your specific objective.   Whether this is a game attempting to simulate World War II, or a game based on World War II aircraft, is an arena or event specific question.  In this light everyone is right.

For example: I wouldn't mind, for the MA or a "what if" Event if a 4 engined German bomber were deployed.  But at the same time it would not have a place in a historical recreation of a certain battle.

(http://users.visi.net/~djohnson/prototyp/264-1.jpg)
Me 264

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 13, 2002, 05:30:03 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
Well sure..I am mature and well ballenced everyone knows that..I am talking about the dweeb that gets killed by the "pre production" italian AC and wants a Production P51H, Bearcat, P80, Vampire, Fw190D12,  xb40 to fight it with. Or better yet...
wants a Pre production fw190 as in a BOB scenario...
Just saying that its a can of worms.

Pongo, 1st off, the G.55 saw operational use in both pre-production and production versions, so your argument doesn't wash there. Again, I have to stress that there is a *major* difference between a prototype and pre-production a/c ; it's not a matter of semantics at all. An operational pre-production a/c is simply an operational a/c that has not been built to projected specs. In the case of the G.55 the only major difference being the pre-production a/c had different armamament to production versions.

I'll give you a good example of an operational pre-production a/c. The He 219 1st saw action in its He 219A-0 pre-production form. This model of He 219 was *not* a prototype. OTH, a very small number of Ta 154s were built to Ta 154A-0 status but they were never operational and so it would be very hard to argue for their inclusion. The Ta 152H-0 pre-production a/c (without GM1) saw operational service and so IMO could be included (some argue that our Ta 152H-1 is in fact a H-0).

Now if someone called for the high-alt C.205 Orione (Orion) to be introduced to the AH planeset, your argument makes sense. After all, it was only flown as a prototype and there was only 1 ever made.As far as the He 100 is concerned, it never saw action and was used simply as propaganda by the Nazis.

The Re.2005 OTH was only ever built in pre-production form, and a few dozen at most. However it *was* operational and reportedly also saw action over Berlin with the Luftwaffe. The decision as to whether to include the Sagittario is not as clear cut as with the Centauro since it was built in even smaller numbers without a production series being built. IMHO, the point is, did the pre-production series of a particular a/c see operational service ?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 13, 2002, 07:05:34 PM

glad you like the thing caldwell.
good luck ever getting it.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 13, 2002, 07:37:09 PM

So anyway something over 3,500 Ki.84s were produced (as in PRODUCTION versions....

:cool:

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 13, 2002, 07:39:20 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
glad you like the thing caldwell.
good luck ever getting it.

I think pigs will fly before we get an Re.2005. Perhaps they'll only need to glide before we can get a G.55.  I'm not expecting either to ever make the AH planeset. The G.55 certainly deserves to,  but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 13, 2002, 07:56:49 PM

Quote

Originally posted by oboe
So anyway something over 3,500 Ki.84s were produced (as in PRODUCTION versions....

:cool:

You are spot on there Oboe, but the number of a/c produced is meaningless when deciding whether to introduce it to AH. Otherwise, the P-40 would've been one of the 1st Allied fighters in the AH planeset, and we wouldn't be flying a 3x20mm cannon La7 or the F4U-1C etc etc.

Production numbers aside, I'd love to see the Hayate as the next AH fighter. I'd love to see the Ki-100 and J2M (J2M3 probably, though I'd prefer the J2M5) as well . The chances of getting the Ki-100 would seem rather good I'd have thought, though I'm unsure as to whether we will ever see the the Raiden in AH (at least any time soon). I hope I'm wrong! The variety of IJN and IJAAF fighters definitely needs to be increased IMHO.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 13, 2002, 08:07:51 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Mitsu
Pyro would say "A new Ki is coming..." in next news.
It is just excited news, isn't it!? ;)

If you are correct it's VERY exciting, Mitsu. I don't think you should get your hopes up about the AH Ki-84 being modelled with the same performance data as the US-tested example which you have provided data for. That Ki-84 was ,amongst other things, fuelled with high octane US avgas.

It certainly gave a tantalising example of how the Hayate could have performed had the Japanese had Western quality components & manufacturing abilities and high grade fuel available to them during the Ki 84's service.

My guess is that when the Hayate reaches us, it will not perform anywhere near as well as your performance chart suggests...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 13, 2002, 10:21:15 PM

"Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for..."

And all these "casual" fans are drawn to the VERY famous La7 and the VERY famous N1K2J....  If it fights good enough  they will fly it.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 13, 2002, 10:29:46 PM

a number of veriations of the KI-84 where built.  I hope they put as many in, as they have spits.  And the icons are just as uninformative as the spits, 109's, so forth.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 13, 2002, 11:50:17 PM

Quote

Originally posted by C_R_Caldwell
I think pigs will fly before we get an Re.2005. Perhaps they'll only need to glide before we can get a G.55.  I'm not expecting either to ever make the AH planeset. The G.55 certainly deserves to,  but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for...

It never occured to me that being interested in italian AC makes you a member of the elite of gaming..

Ill have to reconsider my opinion of them I suppose if I want to be cool.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Trip01 on November 14, 2002, 09:30:24 AM

In AW, the frank was my favourite plane. It climbed poorly, wouldnt dive without locking up, but it was faster than a pony under 7k and turned better than a spit 9. Sometime around '96 they changed it and the ammo load went down to something like 25%. Later they put it back.

What it lost on the spit was E retention, but it made up for that slightly with four flap setting which were useful in combat, unlike the spit.

I would love to see the Frank in AH.

But before that we need early war german bombers so we dont have to face late-war ju88s at the next battle of britain ;)

Trip

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 14, 2002, 12:31:00 PM

Was doing some reasearch, found a site with WW2 planes and some descriptions on # produced, effectiveness, etc. anyways here's the link

http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/Hayate.htm

From the above site ^

Quote

"Forget it - it's a Frank." It is said that this comment was made frequently by USAAF personnel watching radar screens on Okinawa in the closing weeks of the Pacific War.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 14, 2002, 01:17:01 PM

But when the blip was moving so fast that it was inferred to be one of the advanced new Japanese Hayate fighters it would be assumed that the P-51s would stand no chance of catching the intruder.

You should finish the paragraph.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 14, 2002, 04:09:29 PM

Quote

Originally posted by C_R_Caldwell
I think pigs will fly before we get an Re.2005. Perhaps they'll only need to glide before we can get a G.55.  I'm not expecting either to ever make the AH planeset. The G.55 certainly deserves to,  but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for...

And liking the G.55 and Re.2005 makes you a serious aviation fan?  Funny that you picked the two sexiest Italian birds.

The Italian aircraft we most need, for scenario purposes, are these:

C.R.42
C.200
Cant Z.1007 or Savoia-Marchetti S.M.79-II
G.50bis
Re.2000

Those made up the bulk of the Italian fighting force in the air.  Tell me you like those and want those over such sexy aircraft as the G.55 and Re.2005 and then I'll think you might be a little serious.  But in asking for the G.55 and Re.2005 you are at least as guilty of focusing on the sexy aircraft as those you accuse are, probably more so due to the lack of importance of the G.55 and Re.2005 when compared with the Ki.84.

Easymo,

There were only really two versions of the Ki.84 built.  The -Ia and the -Ib.  Nearly 500 of them were the -Ib with four Ho-5 20mm cannon, the rest being -Ias with two Ho-5 20mm cannon and two Ho-103 12.7mm machine guns.

There were a few different engines used, but for the most part gave similar performance.  The engines could pretty much be grouped into two categories for performance purposes, the Ha-45-21 for the high performance examples and all other engines for the lower performance examples.

Japanese fuel in an Ha-45-21 powered Ki.84-I might give a top speed of over 400mph, maybe over 410mph.  The others pretty much hit around the classic 392mph figure.  According to Mitsu the Ha-45-21 was the most common engine in the Ki.84-I.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 14, 2002, 06:59:21 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
It never occured to me that being interested in italian AC makes you a member of the elite of gaming..

Ill have to reconsider my opinion of them I suppose if I want to be cool.

I must be using invisible ink because I'm pretty sure that I didn't mention anything about being in an elite club just because someone likes Italian a/c.

My point was that most people don't necessarily own several books on WW2 aviation or are as hard-core in their interest as many of the ppl who frequent this BBS. They are interested in the a/c that everyone has heard of - the Spit, 109, Pony, Jug, Zero et al.  How many WW2 sims made in the last 10 years actually included Italian a/c? Not damn many, that's for sure. Heck, we have AH and WB3, but how many boxed WW2 sims have included Italian a/c in their planeset?

It's not that I don't think that that The G.55 or Re.2005 wouldn't be popular if they were introduced to AH. Quite the opposite in fact. It's just that developers assume that since the casual gamer doesn't usually know much re: Italian aviation there isn't a market there. Why do you think boxed WW2 sims seem to always be based in the ETO? Occasionally they'll be based in the PTO, but on their next iteration they'll be back to the ETO. In fact, Soviet WW2 a/c were generally treated with disinterest with developers, but IL-2 showed the market what a well made sim set outside of N/W Europe or the Pacific could do.

It's not the casual gamer that wouldn't be interested in Italian a/c, but it's the developers who seem to think that casual gamers (who make up the majority of the market) aren't interested. More often than not it seems the developers are the ones who assume that their customers aren't interested in Italian a/c. I'm sure that more Italian a/c in AH would be accepted enthusiastically by casual gamers. My point is that they probably won't get the chance...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Urchin on November 14, 2002, 07:35:33 PM

I think the Re 2005 and the G. 55 would both be very popular, if they perform on par or better than the La-7 and P-51.  They might take some time to catch on, but 99.5% of the people in the MA fly 'their plane' because of the performance, not because they have any kind of interest in any particular plane outside of AH.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 14, 2002, 07:41:31 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
And liking the G.55 and Re.2005 makes you a serious aviation fan?  Funny that you picked the two sexiest Italian birds.

The Italian aircraft we most need, for scenario purposes, are these:

C.R.42
C.200
Cant Z.1007 or Savoia-Marchetti S.M.79-II
G.50bis
Re.2000

Aw gawd, here we go AGAIN. Karn, ease up on the java and start drinking decaf.  Read my reply to Pongo as it seems it also applies to you.

As far as the 2005 and G.55, I picked them purposely because they are the 2 sexiest Italian birds and I therefore thought they may have the best chance of getting into AH which has a planeset heavily weighted in favour of 1943-45 a/c. If I thought at any time there was a snow-ball's chance in Hades of getting 3 or 4 more Italian a/c, I'd personally choose the following before the Centauro and Sagittario (in order of preference):

SM.79 (like you I'd prefer the Serie II)
C.200 (Serie VII or even a late Serie XX-XXII)
G.50bis
Z.1007bis

I know it would be more historically correct to include the CR.42 1st as you did, but I'd only pick the CR.42 if we had the Gloster Gladiator in the AH planeset. Flying those 2 birds against each other would be a real treat. As always, even in historical scenarios, you have to have some balance, and the CR.42 just wouldn't cut the mustard in AH on its own (yes I know, they didn't cut the mustard in real life either), though a good CR.42 pilot could definitely bring down a Hurri I flown by an average pilot. Having the CR.42 *and* the Gladiator OTH would bring some balance, even if the 2 may have not fought each other in significant numbers.

I was *not* trying to demarcate "casual" and "elite" players on the basis of whether they think Italian a/c are sexy or not. My point is that for some bizarre reason, developers either don't seem that interested in them, or they (wrongly) assume that since the casual gamer may not know that much about them, they wouldn't be interested. Soviet a/c were treated in much the same way by developers, yet IL-2 showed the market just how incorrect that assumption is.

Personally, I think that in early war scenarios, the C.200 would be more than a match for the Hurri Mk.I and when you compare early Brit & French light/medium bombers like the Blenheim to the SM.79 (even the Serie I) you see how competitive some of the early Italian hardware was.

I have no doubt that more Italian a/c would be enthusisatically received by AH players, be they casual or hard-core. My problem is that I have a feeling that we won't even get the chance. Their introduction in AH would certainly be going against the "sim tide", so to speak. That said, having low expectations means there's less chance of suffering disappointment.

Next time you receive subliminal messages from me regarding my "eliteness" plz disregard them as erroneous static...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 14, 2002, 07:50:29 PM

And then there was the KI-84 thread.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 14, 2002, 07:57:56 PM

"The G.55 certainly deserves to, but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for..."


it speaks for itself.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 14, 2002, 08:06:46 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
But in asking for the G.55 and Re.2005 you are at least as guilty of focusing on the sexy aircraft as those you accuse are, probably more so due to the lack of importance of the G.55 and Re.2005 when compared with the Ki.84.

Again, my subliminal psychic emanations must be confusing the reader. Just where did I say that I thought the Re.2005 and G.55 were more worthy of inclusion than the Ki.84 ? Personally, I believe that the Ki.84 certainly deserves to be included in the AH planeset long before the 2 aforementioned "sexy" Italian birds. It was certainly far more important to the Japanese than the Centauro and Sagittario were to the Italians. However, whilst I personally think it should, just when did an a/c's historical worthiness feature in the decision as to whether to include it in AH?

If so, then there is one fighter that *might* deserve inclusion before the Ki.84 and it would be the Ki.43.This time I won't mention anything about "sexiness" or lack thereof re: the Hayabusa's inclusion (or lack thereof). I've learnt my lesson this time .

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Scott E on November 14, 2002, 08:12:25 PM

it would be great to get all 3 armament variations included in the AH ki84

the 3 versions would not reqire 3d model variations only wieght and balance would be affected.


Armament:
(Ki-84-1a)
2 x 20mm Ho-5 cannon in wings, each with 150 rounds
2 x 12.7mm Type 103 machine-guns in upper fuselage, each with 350 rounds
(Ki-84-Ib)
4 x 20mm Ho-5 cannon (2 in wings, 2 in fuselage) each with 150 rounds
(Ki-84-Ic)
2 x 30 mm Ho-105 cannon in wings,  2 x 20 mm Ho-5 cannon in fuselage
(all models)
Two racks under outer wings for bombs or fuel tanks up to 250 kg (550 lbs) each

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 14, 2002, 08:25:17 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
"The G.55 certainly deserves to, but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for..."


it speaks for itself.

And the factual error in that comment is... what? I'll say it again. Most casual gamers don't find Italian a/c sexy. You , however, then extrapolated that to mean that the reverse must also be true. That is, those who do find Italian a/c "sexy" must regard themselves as "elite". I said *no* such thing.

Sim developers need to attract the casual sim player these days just to compete. For some reason beyond my meagre understanding they are under the misapprehension that the majority of casual gamers (at least Western casual gamers) would not be interested in Soviet or Italian a/c (or Romanian, Polish et al) if they were exposed to them and therefore they feed us with an endless stream of sims based in N/W Europe ,with an occasional smattering of PTO action.

My only regret is that I should have elaborated further so as to avoid any misunderstanding. What I should have added was that most casual players don't find Italian a/c sexy because most developers refuse to expose them to WW2 Italian a/c. I have *no* doubt that any casual player exposed to more Italian a/c would find them just as "sexy" as a Spit, Mustang or other well-known birds...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 15, 2002, 08:49:06 AM

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=69935

Hey, Super/Nate!

Make Ki-84 like your new awesome P-51D in AH please!!!

I cannot wait for this battle.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 15, 2002, 11:26:05 AM

That film is awesome ( the one Mitsu has a link to in his last post) Anyone know who he/she is and if they happen to play AH or any other MMOG WW2 sim? :p  Anyways just in case I sent an email giving praises and a link to AH hehe.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 16, 2002, 09:27:55 AM

punt

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 16, 2002, 10:46:07 AM

Quote

Make Ki-84 like your new awesome P-51D in AH please!!!

 ... random engine failure?? :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 16, 2002, 11:21:31 AM

Caldwell
if it bothers you so much to be missinterpreted, you should be more carefull what you say.
Personally I think I understood you perfectly.

you croaketh...
"The G.55 certainly deserves to, but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for..."

yup. pretty clear to me.
AH just is not after the quality of player that would be interested in the planes that you are interested in..
sorry it bothers you so much to be seen as pompous.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on November 16, 2002, 09:24:55 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
Caldwell
if it bothers you so much to be missinterpreted, you should be more carefull what you say.
Personally I think I understood you perfectly.

you croaketh...
"The G.55 certainly deserves to, but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for..."

yup. pretty clear to me.
AH just is not after the quality of player that would be interested in the planes that you are interested in..
sorry it bothers you so much to be seen as pompous.

Yeah right. My mistake was disagreeing with you and pointing out how stupid your comparison between a G.55 and an MB5 was.  That was VERY silly of me ;)  . Personally I couldn't give a rat's backside what you think - life's too short. However, since you appear to be slow on the uptake, I'll give it to you again.

AH needs to attract the more casual player to survive, not just
"experts" like you who trawl the AH BBS arguing about things you know jack-s**t about (like the difference between a prototype and a pre-production machine ). Most casual players know little to nothing about Italian machines. They've heard of names like "Spitfire", "Messerschmitt", "Mustang", "Zero" . The reason is they simply aren't exposed to Italian a/c. They do NOT see them in boxed sims which most casual players would have played before ever going near AH. They don't see documentaries about them on the History Channel et al, and they don't see old war movies from the 40s, 50s, and 60s which include Italian a/c.

Exactly just what part of the last paragraph do you disagree with? You think the average Western "casual" player has a great interest in Italian (or Romanian, or Polish, or even Soviet) a/c ? Why do you think almost all sims are based in N/W Europe with combat taking place between British/US and German a/c? My reasoning is that, just as US film studios downplay the intelligence of US movie audiences .(one recent example was renaming "Harry Potter and The Philosopher's Stone" ,as it was known in the rest of the world, to "Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone" for the US market), sim developers do the same to their own potential audience and play it safe by producing sims that are set in N/W Europe between the same old suspects.

When I said that most casual players don't find Italian a/c "sexy", I meant exactly that. What I didn't say was WHY I believe they don't find them "sexy" .You apparently then took it to mean that I said they don't find them as such coz they are FR dweebs who don't have the knowledge or class to know any better. Man, it's absolutely amazing how you were able to divine the exact meaning of my words. Most people can have difficulty discerning someone's intent when they are speaking to them face to face and are able to see their body language and hear the inflection in their voice and , yet you assert that you *know* just what I meant.

Sheesh, grow up, dude.You are pissed that I made you look like a twit by pointing out the lack of logic in your prototype argument . What a mistake that was . I'll just agree with your every statement, no matter how ridiculous next time. Then again, since you seem to be incapable of distinguishing between an operational a/c that was built in small numbers yet saw (fierce) active service to a prototype that saw no active service at all and that saw 2 airframes built, I may find it difficult to keep my mouth shut...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 18, 2002, 04:58:09 AM

Yep the Ki84 will be a great addition to the AH hangar. Fairly fast so it should be more of a match for the P51, 190, won't bother to mention that Russian jet. Agree with Fester about different models, the 4 cannon variant may have to be perked a la F4U-C but we'll take it anyways ;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: illo on November 18, 2002, 01:31:42 PM

Check this great video to get taste of Hayate.

http://www.angel.ne.jp/~tochy/airplane/1945/1945.mpg

If your windows mplayer has problems playing it, then  try it with real player.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on November 18, 2002, 02:42:27 PM

Example A of why players shouldnt take the names of real pilots.
They shame them.
Thanks for reminding my of what this stupid nonsence was originaly about. Pre production AC shouldnt be in the game unless all pre production AC are going to be considered for the game.  I know there is no published list of the criteria for including a plane in the game. But moving into pre production is a big step. Not all of us are as intellectually refind as you to see the difference so cleary. We might think you just wanted to introduce those planes cause you liked them and be willing to say any damed thing to get them.
The only reason I have replied to any of your crap is to punt this thread..cause I would like the Ki84 in the game.


why dont you give us another 10 versions of what you meant by this...
"The G.55 certainly deserves to, but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for..."
I love those little dots after the end of it..
sarcasm dots...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 18, 2002, 03:32:28 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
When it comes, and I have no doubt that it will, I hope we get the one with the 1,990hp Ha-45-21 so as to have a true 400mph fighter for Japan.

Not to mention making life all that much harder for the F4U and P-51 boys.:D

As a F4U Boy myself, I do miss those battles from good Frank Pilots...maybe the only thing I miss from AW Full Realism.

As much as I hated them at times, I respected them, too...never an easy battle against 'em, but now that there are FOUR hogs to chose from...oh choices, Choices, CHOICES!

Bring it on! See ya in the CT, Sentai Boys! :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 18, 2002, 03:37:49 PM

The Frank is popular Japanese plane.
I see over 150 posts in each frank thread.

Bring it on now.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 18, 2002, 07:46:42 PM

Yes the Ki84 is very popular in the game....I hear its name mentioned on the all country channel everyday by some guy, I forget who.... ;) Not to only that but many people who say that it was their favorite plane in AW :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: easymo on November 18, 2002, 08:45:05 PM

I dont know about AW, but it was my fav in WB.  Rideing on the edge of a very nasty spin was big fun.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 19, 2002, 06:37:09 AM

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Odee on November 19, 2002, 06:55:31 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
Great.
 
 400mph plane that turns tighter than a Spitfire.

 ...

 Can't wait to see it in the MA!

Someone said the N1K2 was better than the F6F?  I'd sure like to know in what manner it is "better" other than maybe MAYBE in weaponry?

But this could be mistaken for a whine and I'll let it drop here and now.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 20, 2002, 10:04:05 AM

Bump.





















Show me the Shoki!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 20, 2002, 10:37:10 AM

I don't understand all the talk about the Ki84 being "uber". It was (from what I've read) a closer match for the P51D than any other Japanese Fighter.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 20, 2002, 01:10:29 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kaz
I don't understand all the talk about the Ki84 being "uber". It was (from what I've read) a closer match for the P51D than any other Japanese Fighter.

Aside from sturctural limitations do e to strategic bombing / insufficient resources, the Ki was probably the best all around fighter in WW@, and no I am not making this up. It could do many things, from BnZ to stall fighting. It's more armored than the spit9 (which is still rather lame), faster / better turner than the corsairs save the F4U-4, and packed a good punch.

Its limitations were poor accelleration, which means BIG problems in a dive-out situation, and couldnt spiral climb with the corsair, and tended to hang on its props. It also had poor fuel economy, and once the cannons were gone (in the earlier models) her punch was weak, bigtime.

Not uber by any means, but uber relies primarily on flying the plane...any plane...on edge.

Any plane can be a monster in the right hands. I think most AH pilots...myself included...don't take the time (or dont have the time) to get to learn a given ride's vices and virtues....I stick with the few I know, and select from there.

PS..UNPERK ME!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Odee on November 20, 2002, 04:25:35 PM

Well that makes sense, Redtail... Thanks. :)

Now the question remains; will AH give the 84 a sporting chance, or is the 84 going to be hamstrung???

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 21, 2002, 02:41:52 PM

Yep thanks for your take on it Red Tail. Btw is that the u-4 or -1c? can't see the guns from that angle so how would the more knowledgeable tell them apart?

oh p.s. Ki84 mmmm we want it we need it we gotta have it unperked hehee.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 21, 2002, 03:12:52 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kaz
Yep thanks for your take on it Red Tail. Btw is that the u-4 or -1c?

I was referring to the early production model, 1c, , and I have no experience flying the later versions. The early Ki was nasty enough, so the later versions would be true monsters if modeled properly..the earlier Ki could also turn inside the spit9, as well as outrun it.  I would assume the later versions are sacrificing manuverability with armarment and top end speed, but I may be wrong in this regard...someone check my 6 on this one!

I also think all Japanese rides should go unperked, because there's enough planes in the set to give the IJN/IJAAF contingent a handful, and since most Japanese rides can not effectively run from an engagement, a perk would be inappropriate, IMO.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 22, 2002, 12:12:47 AM

So far we have the B5N2, Tiger I, P-51D redux and Me163 coming in 1.11.

The only one of these that will see a lot of use in the MA is the P-51D, which isn't really a new aircraft (though it does look gorgeous).

The B5N2 is a death trap in scenarios, in the MA it would be absolutely helpless.  As in the case of all early war units, it will see basically no use in the MA. The B5N2 will be somewhat useful in scenarios and CT setups.

The Tiger I will be perked.  As with all perk units it will see essenetially no use in the MA.  The Tiger I will be useful in scenarios and CT setups to give the Germans the edge they had in tank quality by giving the US / UK the PnZ IV H and the Germans both the PnZ IV H and Tiger I.

The Me163 will only be positioned (as I understand it) near the HQ to ward off bomber attacks.  As bomber attacks hardly ever occur, and are less than a threat when they do, the Me163 will mostly sit in the hanger waiting for a threat that simply isn't present in AH.  The Me163 is essentially useless in scenarios and the CT.


The Ki.84-I would be tremendously useful in both the MA and in scenarios and the CT.  I cannont think of any other aicraft that can make that claim.  The Ki.84 isn't good enough to warrant perking and yet it is very good which means that it will get used in the MA.  In the context of scenarios and CT setups the Ki.84 would be useful as a very common late war Japanese fighter.  It served for more than a year of wartime (something the Fw190D-9 and Tempest Mk V cannot claim) and 3,514 were built, the third highest total of any Japanese fighter.  It was not a rare production wonder bird like the N1K2-J.

IMO, the Ki.84-I would be, in terms of player hours spent using it, one of the, if not the, best investments in effort HTC could make.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Urchin on November 22, 2002, 12:59:04 AM

I'm trying to decide whether or not the Ki-84 will be perked.  It seems like the P-51D and the La-7 are the 'ceiling' for performance.  Anything that matches and/or beats them in certain areas seems to be perked.  Not even overall utility, in my opinion, or the Ta-152, Spit XIV, and F4U-4 wouldn't be perked.

Be interesting to see if the Ki-84 is introduced as a perk plane.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 22, 2002, 09:03:21 AM

I see no reason, or need, to perk a plane from a country that has poor representation in AH in the first place. Regardig numbers, there are far more planes that need to be perked, if we rely on production numbers / performance as selection criteria

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Turbot on November 22, 2002, 09:14:02 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
there are far more planes that need to be perked, if we rely on production numbers / performance as selection criteria

Which of course they do not.  Perking is only done to try to achieve a certain play balance.  Any parallel with production numbers is coincidental.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 22, 2002, 09:37:44 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Turbot
Which of course they do not.  Perking is only done to try to achieve a certain play balance.  Any parallel with production numbers is coincidental.

Wouldn't be bad (here we go, thread hijack) to have a rolling perk planeset..ok...I'm done

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Shane on November 22, 2002, 09:47:34 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Wouldn't be bad (here we go, thread hijack) to have a rolling perk planeset..ok...I'm done

for MA?  bleah! not no way no how. dead horse, you can stop kicking it now.

one kind of exists in the CT.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 23, 2002, 08:31:59 PM

Back to the top.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 25, 2002, 12:36:44 AM

Ever hear that joke about the Ki84 pilot and the p51 pilot in the bar.....no, I haven't heard it either :p

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 25, 2002, 02:32:47 AM

I really hope Pyro releases "Ki" in V1.11... :(

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 25, 2002, 06:16:32 AM

Mitsu, I hope so too!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: RatPenat on November 25, 2002, 10:02:58 AM

I wish they add too.

A Ki84 that is killed by a F4U that spiral climb him??? Maybe in reallife at AH sure is impossible with that stupid climb rate. Or ki84 will have 1.5ft/min climb rate at AH.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 25, 2002, 10:56:43 AM

Quote

I'm trying to decide whether or not the Ki-84 will be perked. It seems like the P-51D and the La-7 are the 'ceiling' for performance. Anything that matches and/or beats them in certain areas seems to be perked. Not even overall utility, in my opinion, or the Ta-152, Spit XIV, and F4U-4 wouldn't be perked.

Be interesting to see if the Ki-84 is introduced as a perk plane.

 Indeed, Urchin!

 I remember the exact same sort of discussion that started when Tac first posted his "UFO" :D pics of the Spit14.

 Generally, there is a basic "Golden Rule" of WWII fighter evolution that "maneuverability and speed is incompatible".

 If a plane turns good, its slow. If a plane is fast, it turns bad. There are acceptable limitations on each aircraft which, by pure (and extremely lucky!) coincidence, very favorably balances a game depicting WWII combat. Since those two factors are usually incompatible in many planes, it tends to draw attention of pilots of different preferences.

 However, like the Yak-9U, La-7, Spit14 and so on, there are rare cases of planes that the two traits are not incompatible, and it is these planes that usually bring out the "to perk, or not to perk" balance problems.

 I guess we'll have to see if the Ki-84 becomes the new "N1K2" or "La-7" in the MA, but if I read the specs right - the Ki-84, which is mentioned to out-turn a Spit9, would be the fastest of the so-called "turner" category we've ever seen so far. It's top speed may not be anything special(at least not as fast as in US tests with US fuel, which recorded woppin' 427mph), but somehow I imagine it to be something like a La-5FN that turns like a Spit9, or N1K2 that is as fast as a La-5FN... and just thinking about a plane like that makes my skin crawl out of fear :)

 Boy, and to think fighting P-38Ls in an E-disadvantage in a 109 is tough! In those situations, when in a 109, P-38s feel like fast Spitfires when they stick to your tail... Ki-84 is going to bring on a lot of pain! :)

 ....

 If the Ki-84 is perked, so should the others be - Yak-9U, La-7, P-51D, Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9, N1K2-J... around 3~8 points. If these planes stay unperked, I guess there isn't any real basis behind perking the Ki-84.

ps) Bring on the Ki-84!!

 With this baby, PTO setups in CT is gonna be really interesting ;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 25, 2002, 11:15:37 AM

Yes, it can turn inside a Spit 9, but cannot hold E with any spit..eventually the skilled spit driver will kill him if the Ki is not careful.

IMHO, it should go as a free ride. It can definitely hang with an La-7 on deck, and will be an effective equalizer against them. It will be the second-fastest bird on the deck, and I'm only speaking foe the early version.

I'm looking for other stats tocompare with the La-7, no luck....

Gainsie

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 25, 2002, 01:37:22 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kaz
Yep thanks for your take on it Red Tail. Btw is that the u-4 or -1c? can't see the guns from that angle so how would the more knowledgeable tell them apart?
.

Sorry KAZ, I am a little slwo, and I misread your quote. The plane I posted is the F4U-4, not the F4U-1C. You can tell the F4U-4 from others by the 4-blade prop and the longer tail wheel assembly, given this picture. All other models had a shorter tail wheel assembly, the -1 being the shortest, then the -1D and -1C being slightly longer, but still shorter then the -4. This made takeoffs and landings easier, as well as increasing payload.

Also, the F4U-4's had the air intake below the cowl, which you can barely make out in the picture, and the exhaust is on the side of the cowl, not on the underside, in earlier models.

In flight, you can tell the -4 from others by the  1). paint scheme in AH; and 2). the fact she will boom and zoom the hell outta you!

Hope this helps :)

Gainsie

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Rude on November 25, 2002, 02:20:24 PM

Quote

Originally posted by llbm_MOL
At evey AH CON I have been to I have asked Pyro when we will get the Ki84. He keeps telling me its coming soon. Well I've been to three AH Cons and still no Ki84. Don't hold your breath.

Been missing this plane since I left WB's. If they make it as sweet as it was in WB's I will be in it everytime I go up.



LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where have you been LL....haven't seen you up in ages.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 25, 2002, 11:01:50 PM

Well, it seems that it has been 145 days since 1.10 came out.  Only the gulf from 1.08 to 1.09 was longer, and that at 158 days.

So far there have only been four units announced for 1.11, the B5N "Kate", Me163, P-51D and Tiger I.  Version 1.10, which came out 112 days after v1.09, brought nine aircraft (P-40B, P-40E, D3A1, SBD-5, Boston III, A-20G, A6M2, F4F-4, FM2) with it.

It seems to me that there are likely two, three or more unannounced units that will be coming in v.11.

I wonder what they are.

I sure know what I am hoping for.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 26, 2002, 01:43:25 AM

Quote

Yes, it can turn inside a Spit 9, but cannot hold E with any spit..eventually the skilled spit driver will kill him if the Ki is not careful.

IMHO, it should go as a free ride. It can definitely hang with an La-7 on deck, and will be an effective equalizer against them. It will be the second-fastest bird on the deck, and I'm only speaking foe the early version.

 See, that's the part which worries me. Given the right circumstances even a P-47 can turn inside of a Spit9. I don't think the remarks on the turn performance of the Ki-84 was meant in that way.

 Clearly the statement on the maneuverability of the Ki-84 seems to mean that its sustained turn rate matches or out does the Spit9. Usually this sort of comment on maneuverability would mean that the Ki-84 will 'hold E'(since planes with good turning ability can spend and manage E in a much efficient manner than bad turners, thus receiving an edge in a 'turn fight', which is in truth a horizantal E-fight) as well as a Spit9 in turns = winning turn fights.

 ..

 If a plane at deck which is as fast, or faster than a La-5FN can win sustained turn fights against a Spit9... it's gonna be one helluva plane! The La-5FN is itself a damn good plane, probably the fastest plane excluding the 1944~45 monster planes. The only reason there aren't heaps of La-5FNs around is because there are already heaps of Typhoons, La-7s, P-51Ds and Bf109G-10s, Fw190D-9s around. While the low speed performance of the La-7 isn't anything special, if the Ki-84 is really like what we read, with a teeney bit of E advantage it will  out run, catch up, out turn almost everything in the sky :)

 ...

 However, even when there were records on Spit14 which noted its 'turning circle' was equal to Spit5s, in AH the huge torque which kicks in makes it incredibly difficult to just simply do the "pull the stick, point and fire" type of turn fights which earlier Spits are capable of doing. I am interested if this might be the case with the Ki-84 as well...

ps) this thread is going straight back to top! * punt *

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 26, 2002, 02:36:43 AM

Well said!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 26, 2002, 05:49:54 AM

Quote

Its limitations were poor accelleration....

 This.. is another quote which makes me curious. From what I've read, the Ki-84 is supposed to have a thrust:weight ratio of 4 to 1, which is said to be evaluated as one of the fastest accelerating WWII fighters ever....

 Not that I know anything about this. Maybe someone can clarify this?? What is the thrust:weight ratio comparing?? Engine power and absolute weight?? And if it is 4 to 1, is that really a terrific accelration ratio??

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 26, 2002, 06:45:38 AM

A lot of what has been said about the Ki.84's flight model makes me curious.   Especially the part about running down anything and then outturning it after you caught it.   I wonder if most people's expectations of its performance are tied to AW's Ki.84 flight model.

I Warbirds, you could not even run down a Corsair or P-51 with it, and you had to be very careful turning, or you would snap spin.
It may have been a monster in AW, but in WarBirds it was simply the best the Japanese had, but you had to know what you were doing to keep it in the air when flying hard.

I don't think it will dislodge the N1K2 as the premier Japanese dweeb ride.   But there will be many pilots who take the time to become proficient in it.

I wonder if it's even going to be included in v1.11.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Shark88 on November 26, 2002, 02:45:56 PM

man that Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" is one tuff looking plane;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 26, 2002, 03:09:00 PM

Sure it'll be in 1.11 (prays) it was fast and it could turn "well". As for out turning a spit9 I'd like to know if this was instantaneous or sustained as other people have brought up. Anyone have the data?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 26, 2002, 03:29:58 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kaz
Sure it'll be in 1.11 (prays) it was fast and it could turn "well". As for out turning a spit9 I'd like to know if this was instantaneous or sustained as other people have brought up. Anyone have the data?

Sustained...at speeds under 240...or something like that...sorry for the bad reference...maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but I am flying on instruments here...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 26, 2002, 04:55:49 PM

Red Tail 444,

I seriously doubt that the Ki.84 will have the second highest deck speed in AH.

In WBIII the Ki.84 will do 367mph at 1000ft.  I think that is a bit generous.  I am guessing the Ki.84 in AH will have a deck speed of about 350mph, maybe 355mph.  That is about like the Yak-9U and La-5FN, but significantly slower than the P-51D, Bf109G-10, Typhoon Mk Ib, Fw190D-9 and La-7.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 26, 2002, 05:38:00 PM

I just hope that the performance data is as accurate as possible. Hey let's get this up to 200 posts :p

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 26, 2002, 06:41:01 PM

(http://www.ijaafpics.com/JB&W/Ki-84-1.jpg)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 27, 2002, 07:20:08 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Red Tail 444,

I seriously doubt that the Ki.84 will have the second highest deck speed in AH.

In WBIII the Ki.84 will do 367mph at 1000ft.  I think that is a bit generous.  I am guessing the Ki.84 in AH will have a deck speed of about 350mph, maybe 355mph.  That is about like the Yak-9U and La-5FN, but significantly slower than the P-51D, Bf109G-10, Typhoon Mk Ib, Fw190D-9 and La-7.

Karnak, thanks,

 I am referring to AW's specs, which were constant in FR / RR arenas.

in AW the Ki was the fastest below 7k, outdistancing the P51D. The only hope to outrun it  was the corsair on WEP  and 3k/min ROC, given the E states were relatively equal at the outset. This is all based on my personal experiences using all of these rides. Too bad the FM's arent consistent Bx all flight sims...

I have no hard data on hand -on my lap- to support that, and although I do have the AW manuals locked up somewhere, I don't think it's needed for this post.

Gainsie

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 27, 2002, 08:47:35 AM

Red Tail 444,

OK, got it.

I believe that WBIII is still using Pyro's old WBII flight models, as a basis of what they are now if not outright the same.  Now given that Pyro made the Ki.84 flight model for WBII that might be some indication of what to expect in AH, but it would be tempered with what he has learned since then.


I would be very happy if we saw, in addition to the units for 1.11 already announced, these units:

Ki.84-Ia
I-16-24
Pe-2FT or Tu-2S

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 27, 2002, 09:17:36 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak

I would be very happy if we saw, in addition to the units for 1.11 already announced, these units:

Ki.84-Ia
I-16-24
Pe-2FT or Tu-2S

Isint the 1A the earliest version? Also, I don't know what the other planes are that you listed. I liked the only Ki I flew, but I'm game for the later versions.

BTW, the CT was fun last night! Man, the Ki would be a monster in there!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 27, 2002, 02:07:33 PM

Red Tail 444,

There were only two versions of the Ki.84.  The Ki.84-Ia and Ki.84-Ib.  The only difference between them was the armament.  The Ia was armed with two 20mm Ho-5 cannon in the wings, each with 150 rounds, and two 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns in the cowl, each with 350 rounds.  The Ib was armed with four 20mm Ho-5 cannon, each with 150 rounds.

Engine wise they all used the same line of engines, and the Ia might perform slightly better due to its lighter armament.


The I-16-24 is an early war Russian fighter designed in 1933 and armed with two 20mm cannon and two 7.9mm machine guns, and having a top speed of 304mph.  It was the last fighter designed to be unstable about all three axis until the F-16.  It could probably out turn the A6M2, but any mistake would probably result in a fatal spin.

The Pe-2FT is a mid war version of Russia's main WWII bomber.

The Tu-2S is a late war Russian bomber.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 27, 2002, 02:29:04 PM

If that's the case then the Ib would more than likely be perked faster than the N1K and also has 4 cannons not to mention it's maneuverability which is better than the F4U-1C...Yep that would definitely have to be perked. Just leave the Ia unperked :p

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 27, 2002, 02:48:28 PM

More than 3,000 of the 3,514 Ki.84s built were Ia types.

I would expect that we will get the Ki.84-Ia with no option for the Ki.84-Ib when we get the Ki.84.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 27, 2002, 04:01:41 PM

bump

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 27, 2002, 08:32:28 PM

nutha pic

http://www.ijaafpics.com/B&W/ki848_2.jpg

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 27, 2002, 08:48:08 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kaz
nutha pic

http://www.ijaafpics.com/B&W/ki848_2.jpg

Man, what a sweet plane, the cowl almost looks like...a LW design?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brendo on November 27, 2002, 09:25:21 PM

"I have a question. Why do we all speak with British accents, if were from outerspace and there is no Britain?"

Actually, I do have a question.

Firstly, I have noticed about 5000 posts asking for a Ki84 or a punt etc. Thats fine..... but .....

Why do you imply that there is any possibility at all of getting a Ki84 in AH?

Do you know something we dont? ie Has anyone told you that it is even being considered? And do you have any realistic hope of getting it at all? ie.... "its coming" is meaningless in an online WWII sim that is always adding and developing stuff. Im sure the B29 is coming too....

So what gives?

P40N! P40N! P40N! Oops. Sorry wrong sim :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Urchin on November 27, 2002, 11:36:11 PM

Oh, we'll get a Ki-84.  Maybe not this patch, but surely within the next year.  It is the last of the widely produced (relatively, anyway) planes in WW2 that is likely to see a lot of use in the MA.  Granted, if we get a version with 4 20mm or 2 20mm and 2 30mm, it will see a lot more use than if we got the 2 13mm and 2 20mm one.  

Even in the Ia form though, it has superior performance over the "Big 4" in certain areas (different areas for each of the "Big 4"), and enough firepower to see enough use to become one of the most used planes in the arena.  

If it really turns as well as the Spit 9, you'll probably see a lot of N1K and Spit drivers switch to it, at least for a while.  Whether they stay in it will depend on which version of the Ki 84 we get.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 27, 2002, 11:56:31 PM

The Ki.84 is one of the few Japanese aircraft that there is an actual, honest to God, American and European fan base for.  There are Americans and Europeans who really like this plane and will fly it because of that, not simply due to how good it is.

Of course there are many Japanese fans as well.

Just as obvious is that many, certainly most, of those who will fly it, will fly it because it is good, not because they really like it for itself.

But like the A6M Zero, there is a real international fan base for the Ki.84.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Urchin on November 28, 2002, 12:29:14 AM

 Karnak, I think there is a 'wide European and American fan base" because the plane is good, or at least because it was good in Warbirds and Air Warrior.  We've got the same 'community' they had, if it was a 'world-beater' in there people will expect it to be one in here.  That is why there is such a 'wide fan base' for it.  

I'm most likely not going to fly it much.  Does it deserve a place in AH?  Sure, it was on of Japans most important planes.  Do the Ki-43 and Ki-44 also deserve a place?  Of course.  They were at least as important in Japans "war effort" as the Ki-84, and they don't have a 'wide European and American fan base" why?  Because they'll be Hangar Queens.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 28, 2002, 02:07:56 AM

To expand on what Urchin said, the Ki43 should be in AH. It's just that it'll be another zero(well it is fairly comparable to the zeke in performance) but without cannons eeww. Definitely another 60 ENY fighter but welcome nonetheless hehee.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 28, 2002, 09:56:14 AM

* kapuntoblooie! *

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 28, 2002, 12:15:27 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Do the Ki-43 and Ki-44 also deserve a place?  Of course.  They were at least as important in Japans "war effort" as the Ki-84, and they don't have a 'wide European and American fan base" why?  Because they'll be Hangar Queens.

Actually the Ki.44 wasn't nearly as important as the Ki.84.  It is a neat Japanese fighter, I'd love to see it in AH and yes, I'd use it.  But saying that it is as important as the Ki.84 that was produced in three times the numbers is a bit misleading.

The three most important Japanese Army fighters were the Ki.43, the Ki.84 and the Ki.61.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 28, 2002, 12:36:13 PM

I'd much like to see Ki-44 as well as Ki-84 in the AH.
Unfortunately, IJAAF and veteran pilots didn't value it though.
I can say it is useful and stronger than Ki-61-I-KAIc as a Fighter.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 29, 2002, 04:55:46 PM

yer all wrong the Ki84 is da bomb dun care if you agree or not yer still wrong coz i am the only one that can be right.
(flies off in my Ki84)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Citabria on November 29, 2002, 05:34:50 PM

ki44 ki43 ki45 ki84 all need adding


japanese set is so limited

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 29, 2002, 06:48:39 PM

Yep, what cita said.

At least, at least...I hope that Pyro ordered to make Ki-100 or Ki-61-II for V1.11 to SUPERFLY.

I believe that they bring more Japan's surprises to us this time. ;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on November 30, 2002, 11:05:12 AM

Here's hoping you are right, Mitsu.

BTW, what is the proper phonetic pronunciation of "Hayate"?

Is it  "Ha - YAH - tay"?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 30, 2002, 03:06:06 PM

From what I've seen they seem to be focusing on German, US, and Japanese strike aircraft/bombers or interceptors (maybe the P51D is just long overdue update) P51D is 1 of the most flown planes in MA Spit9 is close but isn't that old, N1k, La7 aren't that old either. My guess would be a late war Japanese interceptor, and the only plane that comes to mind is the Ki84 :D
Here's my reasoning, Japanese have the Kate, Germans have the Stuka, Germans have the Me163 interceptor, Japanese have.... TBA

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 30, 2002, 08:28:44 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kaz
...N1k, La7 aren't that old either.

:eek:
The N1K2-J is one of the original aircraft that was released with version 1.00.  It is seriously ugly and in need of a face lift.

That said, I'd much, much rather keep the smurfy N1K2-J and get a pretty Ki.84-Ia.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 01, 2002, 03:58:01 AM

oboe, I think so.

Pyro, please please release Ki-44, Ki-84, and Ki-100 in V1.11!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 01, 2002, 04:00:29 AM

These are good rivals to the P-51 and F6F-5.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 02, 2002, 07:01:18 AM

bump

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 03, 2002, 02:42:50 PM

It would be really great to get a new aircraft in 1.11 that was competitive in the MA and usable in CT setups.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 03, 2002, 03:58:46 PM

Gimme more Mitsubishi planes.



Oops.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 04, 2002, 08:44:00 AM

Nah, we don't want a Mitsubishi.  We want a Nakajima.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 04, 2002, 10:20:54 AM

At least we will get Nakajima B5N2.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 04, 2002, 10:23:19 PM

Yes, we are getting a B5N (hopefully B5N2, but after the deal with the D3A I won't be sure until I see the loadouts), sadly this actually weakens the Japanese in CT setups.

I still strongly believe that the B6N2 was the torpedo bomber that should have been added for the Japanese.  It is a contemporary of the TBM-3 and they would balance eachother well in scenarios.

Now we'll be using a 1938 attack aircraft in 1944 and 1945 scenarios as well as the 1942 and 1943 scenarios that it is appropriate for.

In the meantime the USN will be using the TBM-3, which is appropriate for 1943, '44 and '45 senarios, but wholly out of place in 1942.


When these setups are done in the CT I will lobby for the B5N2 be used as a place holder for the TBD Devastator in 1942 setups, and the TBM-3 be used as a placeholder for the B6N2 in 1943, '44 and '45 setups.


Hopefully we get a good and competitive Nakajima in 1.11.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 05, 2002, 07:25:19 AM

show me the hayate plz.

bump.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kekule on December 05, 2002, 09:34:38 AM

Heck, even I'd like to see a Ki-84 in AH. And a Ki-43, too!

So I'll punt this up for all virtual IJAAF pilots.

Kekule
WB: 18th Sentai

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Turbot on December 05, 2002, 09:37:36 AM

I think ki-84 would be a nice plane to add too - though I likely not fly it much and gripe about the new dweeb plane :)   There the downside - AH already has that "ubar super plane" rep and this plane would add to that.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 05, 2002, 03:08:27 PM

Turbot,

True, to a point only.

WBIII, like WB2.x before it, has the Ki.84-Ia and it is modeled as being very fast over there.  I doubt very much that an AH Ki.84-Ia will perform as well as the WBIII Ki.84-Ia.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on December 05, 2002, 03:39:43 PM

Is this the Ki 84 forum?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 05, 2002, 04:13:16 PM

Today, HT said in the MA it will be available at some point...

So I look forward to it. :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 05, 2002, 04:47:06 PM

Yeah, but about a month ago when someone asked to HT "when is Ju-87 released?", he replied "it will be at some point".

I know, but let's look forward to next news. :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 05, 2002, 05:36:59 PM

http://www.modelarstwo.org.pl/lotnicze/galeria/kedzierski/ki84/03.jpg

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 05, 2002, 08:46:25 PM

I hope you're right Mitsu, but I think you're reading too much into HiTech's statement.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: thrila on December 05, 2002, 09:41:58 PM

Ki84? Bah! What you guys want is the Spitfire LF mk. IX (with clipped wings), or a mk. VIII or XVI.:D


It fits just about every "requirement " there is too.  It will be used in MA, scenarios/CT in '43 or later with the RAF, nearly all 5,500 mk. IX's were of the LF variety, it wouldn't take long to model (so i would have thought) seeing as it has the same cockpit as the F mk. IX and will only need a little alteration for the 3D model, it was the RAF's mainstay fighter from '43 onwards. :)

So lets have a spitfire LF mk. IX:D


P.S.  she's a beautiful machine too.:)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 05, 2002, 10:04:58 PM

RAF is already well stocked in aircraft.  Besides, the Spit LF.Mk IX will be a perk fighter, and perk fighters don't see much use.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 05, 2002, 10:21:57 PM

NO POST HIJACKING!!!!:mad: :mad:

:) this :) is :) for :) the :) ki84 :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 06, 2002, 05:32:50 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
I hope you're right Mitsu, but I think you're reading too much into HiTech's statement.

Maybe I think so too. :p

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 06, 2002, 07:26:22 AM

Must stay on top...:eek:

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 06, 2002, 04:10:18 PM

Well, we'll see.  Natedog has to be working on something.

(I have a feeling he's working on a Ju87G-1, but I hope I'm wrong)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 08, 2002, 05:08:04 PM

*big punt*

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 09, 2002, 01:20:29 AM

I wonder how many people would fly the Ki84 in the MA if it was modelled accurately.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 09, 2002, 06:55:38 AM

The following players have posted in this thread in favor of the Ki.84 being added:

Karnak
Hristo
brady
J_A_B
Puck
easymo
Mitsu
Samm
Urchin
aztec
oboe
gatt
Kwan
Turbot
Charon
Tumor
Slash27
Kaz
Glasses
Oedipus
Kweassa
dtango
Pongo
texter
llbm_MOL
Edbert MOL
C_R_Caldwell
Trip01
Scott E
illo
Red Tail 444
Odee
RatPenat
Shark88
Citabria
Kekule


In addition I can say that the members of the 27th Sentai not listed here also want the Ki.84:

keyapaha
seabees
pangea

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: straffo on December 09, 2002, 07:01:06 AM

add me to the list karnak :)

(in fact the more plane there is the more happy I'am :))

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 09, 2002, 07:35:45 AM

BTW the following players have posted in some thread in favor of the Ki-44 Shoki being added:

Mitsu
FunkedUp

:D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: straffo on December 09, 2002, 07:37:16 AM

I can even be interrested in the ki84-40 ;)

btw did you solve you ctd trouble mitsu ?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 09, 2002, 09:10:35 AM

The Ki-44 is actually Nakajima's second great fighter (of course the first is the Ki-84)....i want to see and fly it in AH too.

> btw did you solve you ctd trouble mitsu?

Yes, it's solved completely.
I don't experience any CTDs now.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: straffo on December 09, 2002, 09:15:10 AM

nice !

To bad we're not anymore in the same team :)

Did you know why you got CTD or does it simply disappear ?

Last question in your patch 2 did you change the stress sound ?
I was not used to heard it before an slow speed (<350 mph) but now I keep hearing it and I don't now how to lower it :(

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 09, 2002, 04:34:28 PM

Top it off!!!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 10, 2002, 02:56:20 AM

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
nice !

To bad we're not anymore in the same team :)

Did you know why you got CTD or does it simply disappear ?

Last question in your patch 2 did you change the stress sound ?
I was not used to heard it before an slow speed (<350 mph) but now I keep hearing it and I don't now how to lower it :(

I just deleted the squad folder.
There was an incorrect bmp file in it.

BTW in what plane do you have problem?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: straffo on December 10, 2002, 03:08:55 AM

Corrupted bitmap ?
My god ... what a wondefull world :D


It's not plane related (I think) it's just that I was not used to hear the stress sound in my typhoon when at speed near 500 mph

Btw can you post me your sound .cfg ?

I think using your setting will change my feeling of your work.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 10, 2002, 03:27:25 AM

Can you hear its sound in tempest?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 11, 2002, 01:22:35 AM

Hayate! Zoom-up!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: JustJim on December 11, 2002, 01:30:41 AM

Wow This Is In The Running For The Longest Thread I've Ever Seen.

Big Howdy To Karnak :D

Hope Ya Get Your Planes Mitsu It's The Least They Could Do For All You Have Done To Make This Game Even More Enjoyable.

Plus I Need Some New Planes To Get Killed In As Well LOL

CYA

JustJim

<< DragonHawks >>

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: straffo on December 11, 2002, 01:33:45 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Mitsu
Can you hear its sound in tempest?

Yep but only when really fast :)
(about 50 mph faster than in typhoon)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 11, 2002, 01:37:06 AM

[edit]yeah, zoom up! now![/edit]

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 11, 2002, 01:45:05 AM

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
Yep but only when really fast :)
(about 50 mph faster than in typhoon)

OK. Please test with this new stress sound.
http://www.mitsu.devimg.com/downloads/temp/stress.wav

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 11, 2002, 02:02:28 AM

Does this pic show the NATEDOG's Ki-84 vs SUPEFLY's P-51D battle...?! :D

I hope so! :cool:

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 11, 2002, 02:26:08 AM

We really, really need the Ki.84.

Tuesday's Squad night in the CT really emphasized this.

Please add the Ki.84-Ia HTC.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 11, 2002, 02:32:08 AM

Ki-84-I-Ko plz!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 11, 2002, 03:15:59 AM

Is the Ki.84-I-Ko the same thing as the Ki.84-Ia, simply the Japanese term for it?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 11, 2002, 05:06:40 AM

cc...I must call a Japanese teacher, FDutchmnn. ;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 11, 2002, 08:22:26 AM

Got it.

Bring the Ki.84-I-Ko to Aces High!!!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: culero on December 11, 2002, 09:07:36 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Got it.

Bring the Ki.84-I-Ko to Aces High!!!

KATE FIRST!

KATE FIRST!

YEAH! :D

culero

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 11, 2002, 08:28:46 PM

Warm up the Ha-45-21 engine!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 11, 2002, 09:06:34 PM

Quote

Originally posted by culero
KATE FIRST!

KATE FIRST!

YEAH! :D

culero

:confused:
The Kate is already announced.  Why ask for it?

Personally, I think the CMs made a huge mistake in asking for the B5N.  A huge mistake.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 11, 2002, 10:36:28 PM

I was day dreaming about flying my Hayate...got bounced by a spit got shot down. re upped saw a minor furball gained some alt and got a kill on a la7 zoomed back up only to find a high 190 closing on my 6 went back into the fray to try to lose um saw an opportunity for a kill and got it on a 109 checked to see where the 190 was. He's still up there waiting... I extend out of the furball he closes in i evade again but I've lost a fair amount of E. Try heading back to the furball for some cover wep on diving for all it's worth checking my 6 and there he is yet again but this time much closer than I expected he's already firing I'm hit! but it's minor damage just a flap and left gear. What's this? another Hayate is on the 190's tail and he doesn't see him! boom 190 is dead i salute my comrade and rtb damaged but feeling a certain sense of pride.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 12, 2002, 11:02:45 AM

George, Tony, Val, Kate, Peggy and Zeke would like for their friends Frank, Oscar, Tojo, Emily, Nick, Jill, Randy, Grace and Jack to join them in Aces High.

:D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 12, 2002, 03:59:40 PM

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr, no Ki-84 word on the V1.11 announcement... :(

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Samiam on December 12, 2002, 04:07:34 PM

My only aprehension about adding the Ki-84 to AH is that people will refer to it as the "KiKi":eek:

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 12, 2002, 08:16:54 PM

Mitsu,

There were no unit announcements at all in HiTech's list.

We know some (or all) of the units coming in 1.11, but HiTech didn't say anything about them.

Also note that he states that the list is "some" of the fixes/changes coming in 1.11.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 12, 2002, 11:13:09 PM

Add the kill streak feature and Ki-84 please!

I will fly only Ki-84. :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: straffo on December 13, 2002, 01:22:36 AM

I love the new stress sound mitsu thank !

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 13, 2002, 04:01:51 PM

I'm stilla hopin' for the Ki.84.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 14, 2002, 12:41:49 AM

punt

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: SpinDoc1 on December 14, 2002, 12:44:54 AM

Talk about the longest thread I think I've ever seen, This one contains some great info. Hopefully HT will do some sore of big new Bomber Release for one version where we get some nice new heavies for ALL countries.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: ZePolarBear on December 14, 2002, 02:58:26 AM

punt pass and kick

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 15, 2002, 02:37:59 AM

back to top.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 15, 2002, 04:45:02 AM

How about we go for umm 500 posts hehee. What's the record  for most replies to a post? :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: bolillo_loco on December 15, 2002, 10:08:41 AM

some performance figures from TAIC manual by Edward T. Maloney ISBN number 0-915-464-03-02 Ki-84 Frank 1

Take Off

T.O. 7,940lbs 686'
T.O. 25knt wind 9,194lbs 1019'

climb - ceiling

rate @ S.L. 3,780 fpm
rate @ 21,000' 3,290 fpm
time to 10,000' 2.7
time to 20,000' 5.8
time to 30,000' 9.8

speed @ 7,940lbs.

348 mph 302 knts @ S.L.
422 mph 367 knts @21,000'
396 mph 344 knts @30,000'

engine

take off 1,970hp @ S.L
normal 1,150hp @ 8,000ft
normal 1,000hp @ 22,000ft
military 1,875hp @ 5,900ft
military 1,675hp @ 19,600ft
wep 2,050hp @ 2,500ft

model Ha 45 model 21 type radial 18 cylinders 2 speed super charger 4 blade 10' diameterC.S. electric prop

fuel used 92 plus methanol

I dont know if this helps anybody or if you already had this data from this particular book.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 15, 2002, 10:12:46 AM

loco - do you have other Ki fighter's taic data?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: bolillo_loco on December 15, 2002, 05:28:14 PM

same book as Ki-84 data

Ki-43-II oscar 2

take off calm 5,500 lbs. 450'
25 knts.  5,500 lbs. 175'

climb ceiling

rate @ S.L. 3,290 fpm
rate @ 17,500 ft. 2,850 fpm

time to 10,000 ft. 3.0 min
time to 20,000 ft. 6.5 min
service ceiling 37,100 ft.

speed

a/c weight 5,500 lbs.

295 mph 256 knts. @ S.L.
347 mph 301 knts. @ 20,000 ft.
cruising @ 75% power 202 mph 175 knts. @ 1,500 ft.

engine

T.O. 1,105 hp @ S.L.
normal 925 hp @ 9,350 ft.
normal 800 hp @ 20,000 ft.
military 1,085 hp @ 9,200 ft.
military 965 hp @ 19,700 ft.
wep 1,165 hp @ 8,000 ft.
nakajima HA-115 type 2 1,150 hp radial 14 cylinder air cooled
2 speed super charger 3 blade C.S. diameter 9.2 ft
fuel 92 take off 92 cruising

weight

4,170 lbs empty
5,500 lbs gross
6,240 lbs over load

armament 2 12.7 mm 250 rds per gun.
armor plate behind pilot, fuel tankes are equipped with a protective rubber coating

dive limitation speed is listed at 372 mph 323 knts.

Ki-44 II Tojo 2

T.O. calm 6,100 lbs 545'
T.O. 25 knt. wind 6,100 lbs. 255'

climb ceiling

rate @ S.L. 3,940 fpm
rate @ 17,200' 3,400 fpm
time to 10,000' 2.5
time to 20,000' 5.5
service ceiling 36,500'

speed @ 6,100 lbs.
325 mph 282 knts @ S.L.
376 mph 326 knts @ 17,200'
cruising 75% power 248 mph 215 knts @ 1,500 ft

engine

T.O. 1,500 hp S.L.
military 1,420 hp @ 7,000'
military 1,300 hp @ 17,200'

no listing for wep nor normal power

nagajima HA-109 type 2 radial 14 cylinder air cooled 2 speed
super charger 3 blade C.S. propeller w/ a 10' diameter fuel 92 or
87 W/ methanol

weight
4,300 lbs empty
6,100 lbs gross
6,610 lbs over load

general data

all performace estimated. Tojo has been seeing increaing service in all theaters patrolled by the JAAF. not so maneuverable as the Zeke or Oscar, it can still out-maneuver most allied fighters. rate of climb and diving speed are the highest of any japanese ssf except the jack.

tactical data

tojo is restricted against snap rolls, spins, stalls and inverted flight at high speeds. this plane is equipped with armor plate behind the pilot and self sealing fuel tanks which are ineffective against our .50 cal

Ki-100

engine mitsubishi HA-112 14 cyl. 1,500 hp
weight 5,560 lbs. empty 8,100 lbs loaded
speed 367 mph @ 38,800 ft cruise 250 mph @ 13,000 ft.
ceiling 36,000 ft
2 20mm 2 12.7mm

sorry, but only the basic general data, that speed at 38,800 ft seems strange, almost like a type-o

the book also lists the Tony, Jack, 2-3 models of the Zeke and the george as well as the exotic 1-2 production prototypes. there are a few of them, not sure, havent read the entire book yet

I was wondering where I saw a 370 mph zero, one of the late model jobs I am sure. is it in the book "war prizes"?? anybody know? is that book worth the buy? claims to list german and japanese types.

well too lazy to type the rest. next week, hope it helped you, but I am sure that this data is old and has been around.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on December 17, 2002, 03:27:44 AM

Hoho, thought you'd bury this thread, eh? :D

 No way, Jose. This one's going back to the top.

 Since 1.11 missed out on the Ki-84, we've all got work to do.

 Keep posting for the Ki-84 fellers!

 :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 19, 2002, 12:50:25 PM

Frank: Don't forget me.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: keyapaha on December 19, 2002, 01:12:59 PM

Not only does AH need the KI84 it also need a good jabo attacker which is good jabo plane Ki45,Ki102?.also I note that no Japanese fighter have AtoG rockets did any Japanese planes have these just courious.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: vorticon on December 19, 2002, 01:21:28 PM

we have a good jabo attacker its called a stuka

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: keyapaha on December 19, 2002, 02:14:33 PM

sorry I ment Japan has no good jabo plane reprensented in AH

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 19, 2002, 03:48:54 PM

Ki84 for 1.12!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 22, 2002, 08:34:09 AM

back to the top where you belong my sweet :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 22, 2002, 08:57:24 AM

hmm ki84 on my mind today...

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 22, 2002, 04:05:19 PM

Still on my mind :p

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 23, 2002, 05:38:19 AM

ki84 for senator!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Hristo on December 23, 2002, 05:55:50 AM

HT, thanks for adding all those planes, I love to fly them often, but I hope you add 1 more.

1) plz add Ki-84 Hayate. seems Ki-84 is not modeled yet. check it plz.

Thanks.


__________________
Hristo



now we get it for sure !

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: flakbait on December 23, 2002, 09:52:39 AM

Maybe we'll get it when the other half of 1.11 is released? :D

If not.....

Model the Ki-84-Ia for 1.12



-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/sig/life_modem.gif)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Lazer1 on December 23, 2002, 12:16:52 PM

Ki84 does not have 2 engines does it? Thats what i thought.... bring p38J/H/F!! :D :P

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on December 23, 2002, 06:05:44 PM

Ki-84-Ib?

 Aw no. We already have that foogin' 4 cannon N1k2.

 We don't want another N1K2 with four cannons and more speed.

 Bring the Ki-84-Ia to AH!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 25, 2002, 09:17:02 AM

Merry Christmas everyone! and Merry Christmas ki84 :p

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 25, 2002, 09:52:35 AM

I agree with Kweassa, not because I think the Ki.84-I-Otsu would be bad for the game, but rather becase six times as many Ki.84-I-Kos were built.

A larger percentage of Ki.84s were equipped with four cannon than WWII La-7s were with three.

The two 20mm cannon, two 12.7mm machine gun Ki.84-I-Ko would be much more representative, and so should be the one added.


(Of course, HTC did add the very unrepresentative F4U-1C as the first Corsair)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 25, 2002, 10:28:07 AM

Just perk Ki-84-I-Otsu (Ki-84-I-b). :cool:

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 25, 2002, 06:42:51 PM

Happy Holidays everyone and happy holidays Ki84!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 26, 2002, 02:27:03 PM

Update: Ki84 is drunk on the field after guzzling too much hi octane fuel in a Christmas party last night.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: leitwolf on December 26, 2002, 10:32:29 PM

lol :D


Yes, add the Ki-84 please! :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: flakbait on December 27, 2002, 12:20:38 AM

Whoops! Sorry 'bout that, minor typo on my part

Punt!





-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/sig/unsuperv.gif)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 28, 2002, 12:50:27 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Mitsu
Just perk Ki-84-I-Otsu (Ki-84-I-b). :cool:

Actually, that's not a bad idea at all.

Add the Ki.84-I-Ko as a freebie and the Ki.84-I-Otsu as a cheap perk plane with a simple KI84 icon, like the F4U-1D and F4U-1C.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on December 28, 2002, 01:07:37 AM

Ki-84-I-Ko (20mm*2+12.7mm*2) = 5 perks
Ki-84-I-Otsu (20mm*4) = 10 perks
Ki-84-I-Hei (20mm*2+30mm*2) = 15 perks

Oops, I just thought this... :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 28, 2002, 01:20:24 AM

No, no perks for the Ki.84-I-Ko.

Ki.84-I-Ko = 0 perks
Ki.84-I-Otsu = 10 perks
Ki.84-I-Hei = 15 perks

The Japanese need something with some speed that isn't perked.  I don't think the Ki.84's performance is good enough to warrant perking, and God knows they built enough of them to escape any suggestions that it be perked based on rarity.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 28, 2002, 09:45:16 AM

Nooooooo no perks for the 1a, the others can be perked though like the F4U-C

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 29, 2002, 01:12:07 AM

heheheee

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on December 29, 2002, 01:16:19 AM

ki84 hayate i am not obsessed just persistent :rolleyes:

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on December 31, 2002, 11:59:57 PM

So, anybody want to take odds on the Ki.84-I-Ko being added in Aces High v1.12?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on January 01, 2003, 02:15:20 AM

Happy new years everyone and happy new years Ki84!!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on January 04, 2003, 07:37:20 AM

My first punt in this year. :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: gofaster on January 06, 2003, 08:57:39 AM

and the M4 Sherman Calleope (tank with rockets) and M7 Priest, too!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: keyapaha on January 07, 2003, 08:19:49 AM

punt boy i say punt


 BTW Karnak I'll set the bar on odds  how bout 7 to 5 I think its coming.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on January 07, 2003, 04:54:07 PM

I've been trying my hand at various aircraft some with success others total disasters. It is at this time that my mind wanders to the Ki84

Ki84 oh Ki84 how I love you so,
Come to me, please come with me,
Once you do I won't let you go :eek:

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on January 13, 2003, 05:56:46 AM

HiTech, Pyro, please give SUPERFLY a shot to do to the Ki.84 what he just did to the P-51D.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on February 02, 2003, 02:00:49 PM

Bye Bye

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: oboe on February 02, 2003, 05:32:49 PM

Thanks for your tremendous contributions to Aces High, Mitsu.  Hope to see you up again soon!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kaz on November 11, 2003, 07:04:17 PM

"Today, HT said in the MA it will be available at some point...

So I look forward to it."

________
Mitsu

"Yeah, but about a month ago when someone asked to HT "when is Ju-87 released?", he replied "it will be at some point".

I know, but let's look forward to next news."


And we got the stuka!:aok

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 11, 2003, 10:06:04 PM

(http://org.fighters.co.kr:9000/caribbean/old_gallery/upload/21171107112710620031106113517.jpg)

 Oh baby, that's a what-I-want!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Arlo on November 11, 2003, 11:59:36 PM

Fhat the wuck is that?!

Yaknow ... I think we probably need to add the Frank to AH. ;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: GScholz on November 12, 2003, 01:27:34 AM

Mitsu left? Why?

Title: Ostwind
Post by: wipass on November 12, 2003, 07:40:27 AM

If only 43 ostwind were made it would appear that any a/c would be acceptable in AH

wipass

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 12, 2003, 12:35:14 PM

GScholz, I already returned as Hermit.
Let's look forward to Ki-84 in AH2. :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 12, 2003, 12:50:22 PM

This is what I wanted....woohoo!
I'm enjoying free flight in this plane after work!!!

(http://www.uranus.dti.ne.jp/~mitty/temp/fb_hayate_3.jpg)

(http://www.uranus.dti.ne.jp/~mitty/temp/fb_hayate_2.jpg)

(http://www.uranus.dti.ne.jp/~mitty/temp/fb_hayate_1.jpg)

(http://www.uranus.dti.ne.jp/~mitty/temp/Ki84zz-1.jpg)

:aok

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: humble on November 12, 2003, 03:43:51 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Samm
Considering the screams of "perk it " we've had to endure with the mediocre n1k2. Can you imagine the "perk it" hysteria when this bird is introduced ? People just hate competitive japanese planes .

The only problem with the nikki is it's totally incorrect FM....even "fixed" it retains far to much E under some flight conditions (nose low max G turns for sure)...if the FM was ever really fixed the plane would be exactly what it should be...an excellent late war fighter. As it stands it's the only plane in the game that rewards stupid flying.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 12, 2003, 08:06:17 PM

I know what you're talking about, humble. But I don't think it's wrong. I think I have a good guess which pilot gave you that thought, though.

 What they do, is start a very early-turn before the initial merge, at very high speeds in a fashion simular to a low yo-yo. And that momentarily puts the N1K2 behind the opponent at about 400~500 yards with impeccable timing. If the opponent was just thinking "I'll extend straight", they get shot down.

 What I've learned, is as they start the early-turn and nose downwards, I also have to start an almost 0 G dive to catch more extra speed, to leave them in the dust. Just going straight, is not gonna give you enough separation if those N1Ks time that move good.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: wipass on November 13, 2003, 03:10:53 AM

that particular move kweassa is physically impossible in real life, the nik turns through 180 degrees still accelerating, it changes complete direction as though it were attached to a piece of bungee cord, surely something is completely wrong there

wipass

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 13, 2003, 06:31:31 AM

wipass, believe me, I know how you feel.

 But it really is more about timing than speed itself. Those N1K pilots time that move so they come up behind the target going straight at about 500~700yards.

 Why it seems that they don't lose speed at all, is because, those guys specialize in long range shooting, as much as they specialize in amazing HO attempts. I can do the same move with the G-10 against a faster diving P-51D, and I'll bet any of us can do it with some practice.

 However, what I can't do, is give out the long-range spray like they do. I do the same move with a G-10 against a P-51D going fast, and I get a window of shooting opportunity for about 1 second, until the P-51D leaves me behind in the dust, extending further out than 700 yards.

 However, those Niki pilots have 900 rounds of quad-20mms. With the tracers turned off, they, spray like mad. And it's not just a blind spray in the general direction like n00bs do. They know how to aim, and aim good.

 They don't have a concept of 'saving ammo', or 'waiting for the perfect shot', at all. When they see a chance, they literally spray everything they have until the target dies, or gets damaged, or tries jinking in horror(which, will allow the N1K2 to catch up).

 Basically, they've practiced and specialized the traits needed to fight faster planes to the utmost:

1) They practice killer HO shots, to end the fight in the first round.

2) They practice the high speed/early turn/low-yoyo merge.

3) They practice long range gunnery, to increase chance of shooting down extending cons.

 They practice those three things again and again and again. Dweebism? Maybe. But at least, it works quite often(until somebody like Leviathan comes with a better maneuvering plane, and uses the exact same moves against them to humiliate them).

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Sikboy on November 13, 2003, 11:27:47 AM

I'm a big fan of the Frank, I'd think the F4U crowd wouldl want this one almost as much as the Japanese crowd.

-Sik

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: GScholz on November 14, 2003, 12:26:34 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Mitsu
GScholz, I already returned as Hermit.
Let's look forward to Ki-84 in AH2. :)

Oh yes, the Ki-84 is THE Japanese plane I'm looking forward to! :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Dead Man Flying on November 14, 2003, 12:49:00 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
They practice those three things again and again and again. Dweebism? Maybe. But at least, it works quite often(until somebody like Leviathan comes with a better maneuvering plane, and uses the exact same moves against them to humiliate them).

Well, I don't use the exact same moves, but I sure do enjoy killing them.  :D

-- Todd/Leviathn

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: klem on November 15, 2003, 02:48:03 AM

Got through 3 pages before I realised this thread started in 2002!! So the call for the Ki84 must have merit! This has therefore probably already all been said but I don't have the time to go through the other pages :)

Ki84 was my fav AW plane too even if the FMs dont stand comparison with AH. When I came to AH I could never understand why HT introduced a 400+ production late war plane and left out the mass produced 3,500+, well used, Frank (not knocking HT - they do a great job but I don't understand it).

We really need a couple of planes to give a sensible Japanese setup. If the Ki84 is better than the Niki ( I didn't think it was) then maybe perk it. In fact I think the perks need overhauling anyway to include late war planes like Niki, La7, maybe even P51D (shock! horror!).... but enough of that :cool:

The other plane we desperately need for scenarios is the Oscar. As far as I know (read) there weren't too many Zeros or Nikis flying over Burma. Mostly Oscars and some Franks.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 15, 2003, 11:57:01 PM

Quote

Originally posted by klem
When I came to AH I could never understand why HT introduced a 400+ production late war plane and left out the mass produced 3,500+, well used, Frank (not knocking HT - they do a great job but I don't understand it).

I suspect it is because they had done the Ki-84 in WarBirds and wanted to do something different in AH.

I also suspect that if you had asked Pyro or HiTech in December, 1999 if the Ki-84 would be in AH four years from now they'd have said yes.  Pyro once said that they wouldn't have added the Panzer IV H as the first tank if they'd realized how long it would be before they added another tank.  I think it is the same sort of situation for the Ki-84 and N1K2-J.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 17, 2003, 11:57:19 AM

Ki-84 hardly uber. poor accelleration, terrible dive characteristics, poor range. Thank Gid HTC wont model the shoddy workmanship (we hope).

Like all A/C, in the right hands, going toe-to-toe against it you will pay a horrible price! No perks, no japanese rides should be perked, IMO. Perk the HO, not the ride :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 17, 2003, 09:18:47 PM

Poor acceleration? Ki-84???

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: vorticon on November 17, 2003, 09:47:09 PM

i say put the ki-84 in...we put in the kate so we should probably even up the japanese useless-uber ratio (anyone who says a plane that has better stats than the p-51 isnt uber is a dolt)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 17, 2003, 09:50:12 PM

Yes, poor accelleration, BIG problems if you needed to dive out fast, and it would hang on its props inthe vertical vs USN rides. Maybe my data is wrong, I never actually flew one in RL :(

I'm just reading, and flying MMOL games (shrugs shoulders)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 18, 2003, 05:40:00 AM

Some comparisons:

Weight
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/image002.gif)


Power
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/image004.gif)


Range
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/image006.gif)


Speed
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/image008.gif)


Power/Weight ratio
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/image010.gif)


Climb
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/image012.gif)


Wing Loading
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/image014.gif)


Fire Power
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/image016.gif)

 ..

 From: How Good was the Ki-84? (http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/ki84performanceaj_2.htm)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: straffo on November 18, 2003, 07:13:57 AM

I allways thought the major problem of the Japanes was not the performance but more the fiablility and lack of pilot ?

I'm wrong ?


btw I'm searching a source for the comparing Japaneses claim vs reality anyone having some references for me ?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 18, 2003, 11:22:39 AM

Kwessa

In any event, it's a consensus that the Ki needs to belong in AH. Perhaps the next question is, which ones?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Sikboy on November 18, 2003, 12:22:08 PM

Quote

Originally posted by straffo


btw I'm searching a source for the comparing Japaneses claim vs reality anyone having some references for me ?

Therein lies the riddle of the Hayate...

Post war flight tests in the US showed the Hayate to be even better than the Japanese tests. While I've never personally seen any of the test data, the general conclusion is that the variation in data was the result of super high octane fuel used in the US, which the Japanese didn't have access too.

It seems to me that no matter which way HTC were to model the plane, people are going to complain. If it matches Japanese tests, some will want it boosted to the US figures. If it matches the US figures, some will want it "neutered" to the Japanese figures. If they split the difference, both sides complain.

And this assumes that whatever data/information standards that HTC uses are met with the available resources.

I would love to see the Hayate, but I'm glad it's not my job to model it.

-Sik

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Staga on November 18, 2003, 01:54:02 PM

Higher octane itself doesn't bring any additional power without higher manifold pressure.
Did americans use higher MAP than Japanese did in their tests?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Sikboy on November 18, 2003, 02:06:33 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Staga
Higher octane itself doesn't bring any additional power without higher manifold pressure.
Did americans use higher MAP than Japanese did in their tests?

I really have no idea, I'm just throwing out some hear-say. Ultimately, no matter what the cause, there seems to be two widely varyinig data sets out there.

-Sik

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on November 18, 2003, 06:24:30 PM

Ki-84-Ia with JP specs seem to be the only reasonable choice.

 If the plane is a representation of the war-time machine which fought in the many battles, then I think none other than its original specs should be used.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on November 18, 2003, 08:18:59 PM

Obviously the Ki-84 will be modeled with Japanese grade fuel, just as the N1K2-J is.

If you have Il-2:FB and want to play with a Ki-84 modeled on the US speed data (and made up fantasy data for roll rate) download the newest patch.  It has the Ki-84-Ia with 100 Octane fuel.  It also has the A6M5a and P-51D as flyable.

IL-2:FB's Ki-84-Ia hits these speed numbers:

At Sea Level: 584 kph (362 mph)
At 6,100m (20,000ft): 687 kph (426 mph)

The Ki-84 in IL-2:FB is probably the best pure fighter in the game.


Staga,

For whatever reason the US flight tests of the Ki-84 obtained much higher speeds (especially at altitude) than did the Japanese tests.  The initial production version of the Ki-84 topped out at 388mph in Japanese tests.  A version with a slightly more powerful version of the Ha-45 engine hit 392mph and is the one we see most often in sims.  The most common Ki-84 version had the Ha-45-21 which had better altitude performance.  I have never seen Japanese test data for this version, but given that it was the most common version it is likely the US tests were done on a Ki-84 with the Ha-45-21 engine.  My guess is that the Ki-84 with the Ha-45-21 engine topped out at slightly over 400mph when using Japanese fuel.  Hence my signature.


I recall one wartime story of a P-51 pilot looking over a radar operator's shoulder as they were tracking an inbound contact and the pilot telling the radar operator to not even bother ordering a scramble as it was a Frank, which he ID'd by the speed at which the contact was moving.

I have no idea if theis story is true or not as it was posted on this BB a long time ago and that is my only source.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 18, 2003, 08:39:07 PM

Well wasn't the Ki-84 the fastest prop plane in PTO below 7k? Or was that based on US fuel?

seems so

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: NoBaddy on November 18, 2003, 09:03:33 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Sikboy

It seems to me that no matter which way HTC were to model the plane, people are going to complain. If it matches Japanese tests, some will want it boosted to the US figures. If it matches the US figures, some will want it "neutered" to the Japanese figures. If they split the difference, both sides complain.
 

Sik...

You do have a way with understatement :D.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Sikboy on November 19, 2003, 07:49:19 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Obviously the Ki-84 will be modeled with Japanese grade fuel, just as the N1K2-J is.

While I personally agree with you, does this mean that there are post war US tests giving the N1k2 heightened performance?

-Sik

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on November 19, 2003, 03:04:10 PM

Now I can hear everyone says to me "ki84 dweeb" in AH V2.0!!! :lol

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on November 19, 2003, 04:07:14 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Mitsu
Now I can hear everyone says to me "ki84 dweeb" in AH V2.0!!! :lol

Yup, and I'll be right beside ya!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on February 01, 2004, 04:36:29 PM

So HTC...Isn't Ki-84 the first new plane for V1.2?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: DYGCaps on February 03, 2004, 02:55:19 PM

<---Frank Fan

Bring it to AH...Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on February 07, 2004, 03:50:42 PM

I can't wait to see that HTC releases beautiful Ki-84 in AH2 and skin makers post great skins. ;)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on May 18, 2004, 01:17:04 AM

Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High!!!!

Title: Re: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Masherbrum on May 18, 2004, 11:19:38 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak



The best fighters of Germany, Italy, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States have all been added.  It is time for the Ki.84-I to be added to Aces High.

Bring the I.A.R. 80 to AH.

Karaya

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on May 19, 2004, 12:36:31 AM

climb like a la7 fast as a p51 and turn like a spitfire.

looks like a plane everybody wants to fly
:rolleyes:

especial when it goes 426mph
can't wait to get a group of em on my tail

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on May 24, 2004, 12:59:45 AM

It is FB's Ki-84.
Ki-84 should be more crap. :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Flyboy on May 24, 2004, 05:14:37 AM

Ki84 will be the best plane in the MA up to around 12k

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Rasker on May 24, 2004, 03:07:10 PM

hmm mebbe should perk the 100 and 150 octane fuels, hehe.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mathman on May 24, 2004, 07:04:14 PM

I hope the Ki-84 is added.  I need some more Japanese targets to shoot at while I tool aorund the sky in my F6F.

Seriously though, I would like to see more IJN/IJAAF planes in the mix.

Ki-44
D4Y
B6N
Ki-43
Ki-100 (though the Frank should be first)

Those are just a few I wouldn't mind seeing.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on May 24, 2004, 07:28:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Rasker
hmm mebbe should perk the 100 and 150 octane fuels, hehe.

Better to just not model them as the Ki-84 never flew operationally with them.

We can expect a Ki-84 to top out at 390-400mph at about 20,000ft and have a sea level speed of 325-355mph.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: vorticon on May 25, 2004, 10:21:21 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Flyboy
Ki84 will be the best plane in the MA up to around 12k

well at least it will stop the la7 whines!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on May 25, 2004, 11:07:58 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Mathman
I hope the Ki-84 is added.  I need some more Japanese targets to shoot at while I tool aorund the sky in my F6F.
 

hehe, me and my Ki-84 will tear your F6F to pieces, and then I'll tear the pieces to pieces :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: vorticon on May 25, 2004, 11:28:39 AM

bring a microwave...i hear peices of peices taste good when cooked on high for 10 minutes

Title: add KI-84 to AH list
Post by: SpitLead on June 03, 2004, 05:10:40 PM

I AGREE!  Use to fly it in Warbirds and am missing it here.  Was built in large enough quantities that it should be included to add to the Japanese planeset.  It is a glaring omission IMHO.

Spitlead

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Red Tail 444 on June 04, 2004, 11:28:51 AM

This is killing me....

Has a planeset been decided for AH2 yet? It's been christmas eve for an eternity!

I'll be in the Ki, w/o question, it won't make me a better pilot, although not much more can make me worse ...I'll just zoom A-B in ot :)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on August 06, 2004, 05:12:25 PM

It is at last here.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Pongo on August 06, 2004, 05:13:32 PM

Let the whining begin!

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Ike 2K# on August 06, 2004, 05:14:56 PM

What version of Ki-84 are we having?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 06, 2004, 05:31:51 PM

Almost certainly a Ki-84-I-Ko armed with two 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns with 350 rounds per gun in the fuselage and two 20mm Ho-5 cannon in the wings each with 150 rounds.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on August 06, 2004, 05:40:19 PM

Finally.....

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: United on August 06, 2004, 05:56:56 PM

Erm, Karnak, in the pics posted by NATEDOG, it looks like theres a turret in the nose...? or is that just something else?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Ike 2K# on August 06, 2004, 06:22:50 PM

what's gonna be the top speed @ deck? sub 400 or above 400?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 06, 2004, 06:37:48 PM

United,
Air intake or other engine related doodad.

Quote

Originally posted by Ike 2K#
what's gonna be the top speed @ deck? sub 400 or above 400?

Erm, not even the Tempest or La-7 breaks 400mph at sealevel.

I have seen numbers and statements ranging from 320mph to 370mph.  My guess would be that it will fall in the 340mph to 360mph range, probably in the 350s.

There are so many numbers out there for the Ki-84 that we really just have to wait for HTC to release it and then see how it performs in AH.  Guessing is really futile.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: J_A_B on August 06, 2004, 07:40:13 PM

"There are so many numbers out there for the Ki-84 that we really just have to wait for HTC to release it and then see how it performs in AH. Guessing is really futile."

That pretty much sums it up.


J_A_B

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on August 06, 2004, 10:06:13 PM

can't wait
can't wait
can't wait......Arrrrghhhh!!!

:aok

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on August 07, 2004, 10:14:07 AM

:)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on August 07, 2004, 11:12:09 AM

i expect it's gonna be the plane with the most whines about.

even now it's allready about it's speed.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Ike 2K# on August 07, 2004, 01:19:44 PM

hmmmmm, am i right?

The Ki-84 has a top speed of 392 without the use of WEP

The Ki-84 has a top speed of 400+ with WEP

:confused:

Title: Pyro
Post by: Mitsu on August 08, 2004, 04:44:17 PM

P-kun uploaded a translation Ki-84 Flight Manual Data.
http://www.warbirds.jp/p-kun/picsouko/Ki84Data.txt

This Data is from "Rikugun Koukuu Souranbu (Japan Army Aviation Pandect) written in Jan 1945".
He wants Pyro to read it.

The data is worth reading?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Kweassa on August 08, 2004, 05:45:21 PM

Can't seem to access it.

 The txt files can be downloaded, but it is sort of corrupt on my comp.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on August 08, 2004, 06:03:26 PM

It can be viewed with Internet Explorer 6.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: 2bighorn on August 08, 2004, 08:03:57 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
Can't seem to access it.

 The txt files can be downloaded, but it is sort of corrupt on my comp.

All fuel and oil tank
Tank is bulletproof.
Tank's rubber is 12mm.

Cowl flap:
To out side:20�‹
To in side:5


Elevator:
Control lever: Wing:
Forward: 20�‹191mm Down 20�‹
Back: 30�‹284mm Up 30�‹

Aileron:
Control lever: Wing:
Left: 22�‹210mm Down 15�‹
Right: 22�‹210mm Up 20�‹

Rudder:
Rudder pedal: Wing:
Forward and back:30�‹127mm Left and right 30�‹


Elevator trim tab:
Handle: Wing:
Forward turn 4.9 Down 12�‹
�‹ Back turn 4.9 Up 12�‹

1 turn is about 2.5�‹

Flap:
Close: 0�‹
Takeoff 15�‹
Landing 30�‹

Neutral angle of Control lever: 11.5�‹from Perpendicular line to forward.


Cockpi seat angle: 12.5�‹from Perpendicular line to back.

Cockpit seat adjuster: 150mm

Thickness of bulletproof steel plate for seat: 12mm

Flap contorol:
3 action
Close�E15�‹�E30�‹

Action of flap angle to 15�‹ from 30�‹ is , Angle 30�‹�¨Close�¨Angle 15�‹
Result, Airplane loses alt.
Action of flap angle to 30�‹ from 15�‹ is same it.


Elevator trim tab:
Takeoff:
Weght: 3300�`3400kg(Training)
Center of gravity: 25.4�`26.1
Tab angle: 0�‹

Weght: 3767kg
Center of gravity: 26.6
Tab angle: Down 2�‹

Weght: 3900�`4000kg
Center of gravity: 28.4�`29.0
Tab angle: Down 3�‹�`4�‹

Landing:
Center of gravity: 25 or more
Tab angle: Up 5�‹

Center of gravity: 24 or less
Tab angle: Up 12�‹

Crusing:
Adjusts to the extent that a without-holding flight can be performed.

Fighting:
Keep 5�‹or less.

Remove drop tank max speed: 400km/h

Landing gear lamp:
Up: Red
Down: Blue
Moving: don't flash

If you down flap to 30�‹ when landing gear lamp is not flash, alarm sounds.

Fuel gage:
If oil tank is less than 10 liter, fuel gage flash red.

Cylinder temperature gage:
Switch 1 is temperature of 4th cylinder in front row:
Switch 2 is temperature of 4th cylinder in back row:



Main fuel tank full load�F
217Liter�F151.9kg

Left and right wing fuel tank full load:
346Liter�F242.4kg

Left and right leading edge fuel tank full load�F
134Liter�F93.8kg

Drop tank full load�F
200Liter�F140kg

Methanol tank full load�F
130Liter�F117kg

Engine oil full load�F
60Liter�F54kg

Ho103 Ammunition : 12.7mm x 350 x 2 = 58.8kg + 10.5kg

Ho5 Ammunition : 20mm x 150 x 2 = 79kg


Center of gravity:
3763.7kg 3912.7kg 4012.7kg 3337.6kg 3385.8kg 3059.5kg
Gear up 26.6 28.4 29.0 25.4 26.1 23.6
Gear Down 26.2 28.0 28.0 25.0 25.7 23.2


Diving speed Limit: 750km/h

Acceleration Limit: 5G

The speed limit by the flap angle:
15�‹�F270km/h
30�‹�F250km/h

RandingGear Up: Following 250km/h
RandingGear Down: Following 350km/h

Oil pressure
Max:0.35
Normal:0.30
Min0.25

Methanol pressure
Max:0.9
Normal:0.8
Min0.8

Engine oil temperature
Max:85�Ž
Long time using:60�`70�Ž
Min:40�Ž

Cylinder temperature
Max:230�Ž
Long time using:200�Ž
Min:70�Ž

Engine "Ha45-21" r.p.m/ Inhalation-of-air pressure
Emergency(1 min): 3000rpm/+400mmHg
Militery(30Min): 2900rpm/+250mmHg
Normal Max(long time): 2000rpm/+100mmHg
Crusing: 1800�`2000/-100mmHg�`-200mmHg
Permission maximum(30sec): 3200rpm/-200mmHg

Takeoff Status:
on Runway.
Takeoff Time: 15sec
Takeoff Distance: 360m
Meter speed: 150km/h
Boost: +250
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Flap angle: 0

Takeoff Time: 15.5sec
Takeoff Distance: 310m
Meter speed: 140km/h
Boost: +250
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Flap angle: 15

Takeoff Time: 15sec
Takeoff Distance: 320m
Meter speed: 150km/h
Boost: +350
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Flap angle: 0

on Grassy place
Takeoff Time: 16sec
Takeoff Distance: 450m
Meter speed: 150km/h
Boost: +250
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Flap angle: 0

Takeoff Time: 16sec
Takeoff Distance: 390m
Meter speed: 140km/h
Boost: +250
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Flap angle: 15

Takeoff Time: 16sec
Takeoff Distance: 420m
Meter speed: 150km/h
Boost: +350
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Flap angle: 0

Landing Status(Full Payload, Calm):
on Runway.
Landing Time: 17sec
Landing Distance: 390m
Meter speed: 135�`140km/h
Flap: Full down
Brake: use

Landing Time: 53sec
Landing Distance: 910m
Meter speed: 135�`140km/h
Flap: Full down
Brake: not use

on Grassy place
Landing Time: 15sec
Landing Distance: 370m
Meter speed: 135�`140km/h
Flap: Full down
Brake: use

Landing Time: 33sec
Landing Distance: 600m
Meter speed: 135�`140km/h
Flap: Full down
Brake: not use


Stall status:
Alt: 2000m
Stall speed of metor: 165km/h
Flap angle: 0�‹
Landing gear: Up
Elevator trim tab: 0�‹
r.p.m: 1200

Alt: 2000m
Stall speed of metor: 149km/h
Flap angle: 15�‹
Landing gear: Up
Elevator trim tab: 0�‹
r.p.m: 1100

Alt: 2000m
Stall speed of metor: 139km/h
Flap angle: 30�‹
Landing gear: Up
Elevator trim tab: +2�‹
r.p.m: 1000

Alt: 2000m
Stall speed of metor: 168km/h
Flap angle: 0�‹
Landing gear: Down
Elevator trim tab: 0�‹
r.p.m: 1200

Alt: 2000m
Stall speed of metor: 163km/h
Flap angle: 15�‹
Landing gear: Down
Elevator trim tab: +2�‹
r.p.m: 1100

Alt: 2000m
Stall speed of metor: 138km/h
Flap angle: 30�‹
Landing gear: Down
Elevator trim tab: +4�‹
r.p.m: 1000

Turn half:
alt: +800m
Turn start speed: about 400km/h
r.p.m: 2600
Inhalation-of-air pressure: +100mmHg

loose reversal:
alt: -900m
Turn start speed: about 270km/h
r.p.m: 2600
Turn end speed : about 400km/h

Sudden reversal:
alt: -650m
Turn start speed: about 250(300)km/h
r.p.m: 2600
Turn End speed: about 350(400)km/h


Diving status:
Nose angle: 60�‹
Start:
alt: 5000m
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Inhalation-of-air pressure: -100mmHg
speed: ` 350km/h

Elevartor trim angle: -5�‹


Diving:
Inhalation-of-air pressure: +250mmHg

End:
alt: 1300m
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Inhalation-of-air pressure: +250mmHg
speed: 750km/h
Nose angle: 0�‹

Nose angle: 90�‹
Start:
alt: 5000m
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Inhalation-of-air pressure: -100mmHg
speed: ` 300km/h

Wake up:
alt: 3000m
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Inhalation-of-air pressure: +200mmHg
speed: 650km/h

End:
alt: 2000m
r.p.m: 2900rpm
Inhalation-of-air pressure: +200mmHg
speed: 720km/h
Nose angle: 0�‹

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Fruda on August 09, 2004, 10:22:04 AM

That's the Ki-84 I flew in FA 3.6.

In other words, very good performance, but rice paper construction.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: brady on August 09, 2004, 11:44:46 AM

This plane should not be Rice papaer construction, as you can see above it had armor protection, and was not as lightly built as early war Japanese planes. FA is not exactly know for their atention to detail.


 Mitsu, I recall a while ago you mentioned that the Ki-84-Ic was never realy built in any numbers, while several western sources state it was, I was woundering if you could provide a source that confirms that they wer not built in any number.

Title: Re: Pyro
Post by: Edbert on August 09, 2004, 12:05:00 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Mitsu
P-kun uploaded a translation Ki-84 Flight Manual Data.
[url]This Data is from "Rikugun Koukuu Souranbu (Japan Army Aviation Pandect) written in Jan 1945".
He wants Pyro to read it.

This maybe a translation error, but if it is not then the Frank will be quite slow.

Quote

Remove drop tank max speed: 400km/h

That is from the translated manual.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 09, 2004, 12:14:28 PM

It is saying that you are not supposed to release the drop tanks if you are going faster than 400km/h.

Most external stores had rules like this.  AH ignores them generally.

For example, rockets were to be fired at 270mph or less IIRC.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Edbert on August 09, 2004, 12:24:03 PM

RGR Karnak, that makes sense. If the max dive speed was listed as 750hm/h then I'd assume it reaches full compression there? That is only 466mph, must have not had hydraulic elevators then, or the light airframe couldn't take it. Anyone know what constitutes "max dive speed"?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 09, 2004, 12:59:12 PM

Again it can mean different things.  IIRC the Spitfire had a max allowed dive speed of 470mph.  This was, IIRC, indicated air speed.  In addition it had a built in saftey margin and many aircraft probably exceeded it without any damage.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Flyboy on August 09, 2004, 02:31:51 PM

is it perked yet?
:p :D

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: 1K3 on August 09, 2004, 06:02:03 PM

'84 doesnt need to be perked unless the others follow (P-38L, P-51s, P-47D-40, 109G-10, 190D-9, la-7, yak-9U, N1K)

:)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on August 12, 2004, 06:37:56 AM

Question:
Which engines does Aces High II Ki-84-I-Ko have?

1800hp? or 2000hp?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 12, 2004, 10:31:20 AM

Mitsu,

I'd guess we'll find out when it is released. I doubt that Pyro reads old, very long threads like this one.

I could be wrong of course.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: ace31st on August 25, 2004, 03:40:32 PM

"'84 doesnt need to be perked unless the others follow (P-38L, P-51s, P-47D-40, 109G-10, 190D-9, la-7, yak-9U, N1K) "

true, but dont perk the 38, not many people can use it very well and some people just wanna learn it first

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: 1K3 on August 25, 2004, 04:28:40 PM

the '38-L (the best in A2G and A2A imo) should be perked unless we don't get earlier '38 variants, like the '38-G

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: ace31st on August 25, 2004, 05:44:36 PM

when it starts having a big impact in the game ( like to many people can use it well) then perk it. until then keep it off the list

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: jetb123 on August 25, 2004, 06:35:15 PM

I cant wait to fly it. looks really cool.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: AaronM2 on August 25, 2004, 07:33:57 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Ike 2K#
hmmmmm, am i right?

The Ki-84 has a top speed of 392 without the use of WEP

The Ki-84 has a top speed of 400+ with WEP

:confused:

 uh oh there goes my pony ;) things going to be flyin by me LOL

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: ace31st on August 25, 2004, 08:57:07 PM

hehe jet, stick to the 38 with me, we can wing up when we can play.



the ki 84 should DEFINITELY be perked if its even faster then a pony. this will be the plane of choice for all the dweebs lol....

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: jetb123 on August 25, 2004, 08:59:21 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ace31st
hehe jet, stick to the 38 with me, we can wing up when we can play.



the ki 84 should DEFINITELY be perked if its even faster then a pony. this will be the plane of choice for all the dweebs lol....

 I got to admitt ace we were some good 38 wingies. Yeah lets DEFINITELY wign up again. I will be on next week look for me then.:aok

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: ace31st on August 25, 2004, 09:04:09 PM

the frank is gonna bring alot more competion to deal with... and plus i still havent even PLAYED ah2 yet so i will still need to get the hang of it..

its gonna be a tough first week or so

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 25, 2004, 09:05:20 PM

P-51D top speed at sea level: 367mph
Ki-84-I-Ko top speed at sea level: probably about 350mph

P-51D top speed at 22,000ft: about 420mph
Ki-84-I-Ko top speed at 22,000ft: 388mph for first prototype, 392mph for second prototype, 415mph reportedly for production model, 424mph in post war American tests

P-51D top speed: 437mph at 25,000ft
Ki-84-I-Ko top speed: see 22,000ft results


Summary, the P-51D is faster in all but the US post war tests done using 100 octane fuel (not all that much of an effect) and a meticulously maintained Ki-84-I-Ko, and above 22,000ft is faster even than that one.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: jetb123 on August 25, 2004, 09:06:06 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ace31st
the frank is gonna bring alot more competion to deal with... and plus i still havent even PLAYED ah2 yet so i will still need to get the hang of it..

its gonna be a tough first week or so

 Alot of guys say that ah2 is not a big change over ah1. Other than graphics and fm and dm.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: ace31st on August 25, 2004, 09:11:42 PM

sorry karnak im lookin at the wrong info.. its still gonna be a good competitor to the pony though.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 25, 2004, 09:20:34 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ace31st
sorry karnak im lookin at the wrong info.. its still gonna be a good competitor to the pony though.

No problem at all.  I was just trying to give you an idea of what to expect.  There are so many performance numbers out there for the Ki-84 that we're really just going to have to wait for HTC to release v2.01 before we can really know.

My guess would put it at about 350mph at sea level and at 392mph at 22,000ft.

We'll see.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: 1K3 on August 25, 2004, 09:43:10 PM

I would like to see the production version of (not the prototype) Ki-84 perform at least 650Km/h @ 6700m instead of 631 Km/h @ 6700m

:)

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on August 25, 2004, 10:18:39 PM

The prototype of Ki-84 flew with 1800hp HA45-Toku engine(aka NK9B Homare "11" engine. Toku means "Special" in English). This engine's spec was 1800hp/takeoff, 1440hp/5700m.

Both Army's data (624km/h and 631km/h) is recorded by this Ki-84.

So if HTC models Ki-84-I-Ko with HA45-21 2000hp engine (production model), its max speed should be 660km/h at least.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 25, 2004, 11:45:13 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Mitsu
So if HTC models Ki-84-I-Ko with HA45-21 2000hp engine (production model), its max speed should be 660km/h at least.

I'd like that too, but the problem is the test data doesn't exist for it.

The test data exists for the first and second prototypes and the American post war trials.

As I understand it those three data sets are all the exist.  Everything else is just verbal reports from engineers and pilots.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: jetb123 on August 26, 2004, 04:07:09 AM

What kind of guns does the ki-84 have?

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 26, 2004, 10:29:28 AM

Ki-84-I-Ko (~2,800 built): two 20mm Ho-5 cannon in the wings with 150 rounds each and two 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns in the cowl with 350 rounds each.

Ki-84-I-Otsu (~500 built): Four 20mm Ho-5 cannon, two in the wings and two in the cowl, with 150 rounds per gun.



Note: The Ki-61-I-Tei in AH is armed with two 20mm Ho-5 cannon in the cowl with 120 round each and two 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns in the wings with 250 rounds per gun.  The position is different, but if you want to play around with the guns that the most likely Ki-84 will have that will do nicely for you.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on August 26, 2004, 10:55:49 AM

and two 250kg bombs or two 200l drop tanks under the wing.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: jetb123 on August 27, 2004, 04:10:17 AM

This plane seems way more better than the NIk2J.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Mitsu on August 27, 2004, 04:20:15 PM

Everyone says N1K2-J is more turner plane though.

Title: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
Post by: Karnak on August 27, 2004, 04:28:27 PM

Not to mention the N1K2-J's 900 rounds of 20mm ammo with four guns as opposed to the Ki-84-I-Ko's 300 rounds of 20mm ammo with two guns.