Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: VFJACKAL on October 31, 2002, 09:42:20 PM
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Just wondering where to send my 1.00 to pay back whoever it is I should be paying for the past problems of the U.S. in the 1800's.
Does it go to Louis FarraCON or Rev. Jesse "Hypocrit" Jackson or Al Sharp-Im-Not
I saw Mr. Johnny Cochran on MSNBC on a talk show.....I really think that guy thought OJ was innocent. Anyway he was talking about Americans (WHite I think he said) oweing about 10 Billion dollars in money. So figured I would go ahead and send my 1.00 in.:rolleyes:
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I don't owe them squat. All of my ancestors came to the United States in the late 1800s/early 1900s WAY past the civil war. A lot of people have been put into slavery and they're not demanding compensation. You don't see me demanding reperations from Turkey for what the ottomans did to my people (Hungarians, Poles)
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what a bunch of cretins.
They should just go to their nearest McDonalds and spill coffee on themselves...
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Yeah...me either. Just find it amusing what some people will argue about or try to scam money for.
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I am all for reperations. Give a million dollars to everyone who was a slave prior to the Civil War, and is still alive today.
Anyone born after Dec 1865 gets nothing. They weren't slaves, so they get squat.
dago
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Cochran wants way more than $10 billion. $10 billion is probably just the commission he's looking for. Anyway, even if it was $10 billion, there are only about 150 million tax payers, so you'd owe more than $1.
ra
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We have a simular situation up here that rears its head from time to time.
Hell, if it'd put me out of pocket $10 bucks so I never have to hear about the issue again it'd be one of the best things I ever spent my money on.
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anyone who flys luftwaffe birds or drives a panzer in AH should send $15 to the holocaust museum monthly
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Originally posted by whgates3
anyone who flys luftwaffe birds or drives a panzer in AH should send $15 to the holocaust museum monthly
Right... :rolleyes:
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Don't worry Nash. Up there, like down here, you'd hear about it again as soon as the original donation ran out.
In fact, since you'd proved to be an "easy mark" you'd probably hear about it before the money ran out. ;)
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they've been getting paid all along:
its called food stamps, unemployment, free medical/dental, gov housing & enough pocket change to lease that bmw
now they want a "bonus"?
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Now ,now, now Eagler that's not very PC of you. :D
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Screw "PC" speak. I think Eagler is dead on the money.
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Screw the dollar, I'll pay for the friggin ticket back to Africa for them.
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PC or not he generalises a group of people, and in that post he comes across as an ignorant.
Though I agree that this reparations crap is roadkill.
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African warlords had been taking prisoners and selling them to Arab traders as slaves centuries before they started dealing with the west.
So if the blacks in this country want some restitution they should go back to Africa and sue their ancestors.
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BTW, are we going to pay the Native Americans for the land the English, French, Spanish, Dutch and later Yankees flat out stole from them?
If so, I think maybe we should pay them first.
Just a thought.
And then we can get reparations going for all the populations that had land stolen from them by expansionist colonialist powers everywhere in the world!
This could be bigger than the Coca-Cola song!
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In terms of fairness,
I believe that we DO owe everyone who had an ancestor who was a slave something. We took them from thier homes against thier will.
So everyone who had a slave ancestor is entitled to a one-way, first class airline ticket to the african nation of thier choice.
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I think those two are N****rs. The play on the weak to raise support by blaming the weaks' problems on the America then cash in on it. I wish the sniper to those two out along with farakhan. FTBS
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Originally posted by Animal
PC or not he generalises a group of people, and in that post he comes across as an ignorant.
Though I agree that this reparations crap is roadkill.
why thank you animal :)
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See children when there's a smiley face means sarcasm see ok ahh yes .
I'm still traumatized by the dancing Viking Kittens.
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My G-G-Grandfather was shot in the thigh fighting in the Civil War for the 34th Pennsylvania Infantry, Company I.
"They" aren't getting a dime from me.
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The decedents of slaves benefit far more by being here then there. I say they are paid in full.
As a matter a fact I believe I have over paid and expect to be paid back. How much has been handed out in social programs since Johnsons war on poverty began?
Any of you old punk rock anarchist types remember the band Crass?
"They owe us a living" ...... no we dont
They can go back to their dung hut, aids and starvation. I bet we could then sell umm tickets back to the US at a profit.
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They wont get a cent out of me! + i already give every damn time one of the "Down on his luck brotha who axes me fo sum change in da street" AKA diddlying bum!
Im sure over time i have to have atleast given $20 total so she i think they owe ME!
box:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Wotan
The decedents of slaves benefit far more by being here then there. I say they are paid in full.
As a matter a fact I believe I have over paid and expect to be paid back. How much has been handed out in social programs since Johnsons war on poverty began?
Any of you old punk rock anarchist types remember the band Crass?
"They owe us a living" ...... no we dont
They can go back to their dung hut, aids and starvation. I bet we could then sell umm tickets back to the US at a profit.
OK everyone, what is wrong with the above post?
times up!
The answer is..... Who the F*&% cares if life is better here or in AFRICA! The only thing that matters is whether people of AFRICAN decent have been treated equally over the years, or whether they have had equal opportunities here.
you may now return to your idiotic thread.
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Relax, no one will take your money.
Christ people, are you really gullible enough to believe that these tards will get anything of what they ask? Stop your knee-jerk reactions and defensive attitude and realize that these fools are better ignored.
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Hey Animal They got Cochran!!! They're in deep :D
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I think it is unfair that he didn't deduct for room and board.
lazs
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Buncha effing racists using this non-issue as an excuse to show your true colors.
Go hide behind your sheets where you belong.
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^^^you see a lot of that around this BBS lately. Sometimes I wonder if it has something to do with the demographics.
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so MT, are you suggesting that we do pay reparations?
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I imagine, generally speaking, a world war two flight sim would appeal to old white guys more the any other demograpic.
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Originally posted by Nifty
so MT, are you suggesting that we do pay reparations?
You are missing the point.
They take this idiotic reparations issue as a break to say what they would normally fear to. Some people here really hate "cupcakes"
But what can you expect from an uneducated, fearful and close-minded group of people.
Mind you, I dont mean the demographics, I mean the people who use the non issue to show their true colors as MT described.
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oh, so this is just a thread for the bigots to spew their filth and for you and MT to call them on it?
oh, ok. I thought it was an actual thread about reparations...
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Originally posted by Animal
Relax, no one will take your money.
Christ people, are you really gullible enough to believe that these tards will get anything of what they ask? Stop your knee-jerk reactions and defensive attitude and realize that these fools are better ignored.
yeah think not?
if it were up to the MT types we'd be handing them a blank check ..
give it time, they'll probably get something in the end - the longer it takes the more interest they can charge whitey :)
btw - my lineage started in 1903 when my great grandparents stepped off the boat from Italy with two nickels to rub together.
I didn't get any benny's from the slave trade either - that is unless you count the enterainment I get on Sunday watching the descendents of those slaves making millions on the grid iron :)
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Originally posted by Nifty
oh, so this is just a thread for the bigots to spew their filth and for you and MT to call them on it?
oh, ok. I thought it was an actual thread about reparations...
I guess you are right if you wanna put it that way.
We have already discussed reparations before; actually, its discussed little before it turns shout fest by people who believe most black people are scam artists on well fare who want to steal whats theirs.
This fear comes from ignorance. Hence, I call them ignorants.
And fools.
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so MT.... it is only fair to make fun of white people who are stupid and greedy? Seems you are being the racist... not treating everone equally and all.
lazs
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I am part cherokee everyone owe's me money start paying. :)
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Originally posted by Nifty
so MT, are you suggesting that we do pay reparations?
I believe I called it a "non-issue".
Reparations for slavery is a silly notion that will never work. What I take issue with is the following:
they've been getting paid all along:
its called food stamps, unemployment, free medical/dental, gov housing & enough pocket change to lease that bmw
and
Screw the dollar, I'll pay for the friggin ticket back to Africa for them.
and
I think those two are N****rs. The play on the weak to raise support by blaming the weaks' problems on the America then cash in on it. I wish the sniper to those two out along with farakhan. FTBS
and
The decedents of slaves benefit far more by being here then there. I say they are paid in full.
and
They wont get a cent out of me! + i already give every damn time one of the "Down on his luck brotha who axes me fo sum change in da street" AKA diddlying bum!
Im sure over time i have to have atleast given $20 total so she i think they owe ME!
It is attitudes like the above that assist the idiots who contuinually push for reparations. Slavery isn't the issue, equal rights and opportunities are the issue. Look at all the open minded people in this thread who are more than happy to ensure that all men have equal access to the American dream....
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Originally posted by lazs2
so MT.... it is only fair to make fun of white people who are stupid and greedy? Seems you are being the racist... not treating everone equally and all.
lazs
I think that if you were to actually read what I wrote your question would be answered.
Nice try though.
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mt... so the majority of the posters were not included in your "bunch of effing racists" diatribe? You should try to generalize less so as to not look so..... racist.
lazs
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Yea Lazs, kinda like when your teacher used to dress down the class, and started out by saying "if this doesn't apply to you, don't listen".
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Since it was addressed to me I will expand a bit. I am sick and tired of having this crap rammed down my throat. I believe in equal everything, but when you start talking reparations, all you are accomplishing is setting everything back another twenty years.
Now, you can call me a racist for my tribute to this thread, and I don't care, but don't go thinking of your own superiority unless you truely know me and what I have experienced. Reverse racism is just as alive today as racism.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Look at all the open minded people in this thread who are more than happy to ensure that all men have equal access to the American dream....
I'd like to know more about this American dream and how to get access.
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$
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mt... my 'teachers" were nuns and they never had to dress down the class or justify anything.
lazs
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We all know this is how it starts. The proffessional racial blackmailers beg and make enough noise that over time people start taking them seriously. Then the checks start and they they get bigger and bigger.
The government takes enough money from the citizenry already. When some thing as silly as this starts folks who know its bs need to get loud and let those who would give these charlatans a blank check know that if they are going to get on their soup box then they will be shouted down.
If you wanna give away your money then get out your check book and send it to your local oppressed decendents of slaves club. Jesse Jackson and crew extort enough money from corporations and the like already. They use the money for other things (paying off a mistresses and love children).
Nothing is stopping those of you who feel "guilty" for slavery or how the descendents of slaves were/are or have been treated from giving away your money. Feel free to absolve your guilt with fat personal check.
Those of us who dont feel guilty for anything and never owned a slave or never made a black person get up from a lunch counter arent going to be blackmailed. If you want or expect money from the citizenry for something they werent responsible for and attempt to use the government to get it then folks will voice their opposition.
Now to attempt to shut these folks up by using the word "racist" only works on folks who feel guilty. Throw it around all you want it still wont get you a dime.
As for the American Dream and all that as long as every citizen has equal protection under the law then its up to each each individaul to find his/her dream. But when folks attempt to change the law to their limited benefit its up to everyone to stop them. Now I am sure you will bring jim crow or slavery but it was the responsibility of those directly affected to seek relief from those who were directly involved. Coming to folks decades later, folks whos ancestors werent even a part of this country and expect them to pick up the tab for nothing they had to do with is wrong.
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Does this have something todo w/That Vanilla Ice guy?
xBAT
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Originally posted by batdog
Does this have something todo w/That Vanilla Ice guy?
xBAT
I demand reparations for Vanilla Ice.
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one thing MT. When these guys speak of reparations they are talking about direct compensation for slavery itself.
You mix up jim crow and the conditions of blacks since 1865. I think that the justification for affimirmitive actions and other types of social programs were to remedy or atleast make some minor recompense to those who suffered. Thats a different issue then paying "wages" and punitive damages for slavery.
I may be wrong since all I hear is sound bites and read short clippings in the news paper about "reparations".
If you want things to get better it seems to me that demanding that a generation of folks who had nothing to do with slavery pay the bill would be the wrong way to go. You cant expect to right the wrongs of Racism by holding a people who had nothing to do with it responsible. In fact, do you think it could actually make things worse?
Or is this "just about the money"?
I know what the Jacksons and Sharptons and the proffessional race baiters think. Its the money.
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Cool I had nuns too. I guess mine were meaner.
:)
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I try not to be bigoted against any race of people, but rather judge people individually. It isn't easy for anyone to do, and like it or not, every race of people are racist in ways.
What irriatates me about the reperations issue is that scum like Faracon (horribly bigoted troublemaker), Jesse Jackson (hypocritical lieing cheating scum) and Al Sharpton (attention seeking blowhard) stand up and pretend to represent "their people". I certainly wouldn't use the term "Reverend" for any of these people, they are not persons of God, they are scamming, power and attention seeking liars.
Why doesnt the Black community rise up and tell them to crawl back into their holes? Why don't they choose leaders who have good hearts and will serve the communities of Black citizens instead of their own selfish desires?
Reparations is the latest attempt to hold an issue up that the Black community can use as a solidifying issue. Greed appeals.
Hitler wanted an issue to rally the German people, he held up the Jews as the cause of all the problems facing Germany in the late 30s, early 40s. Its not the issue itself, but rather give the people a scapegoat or greedy rallying cry. Jackson, Faracon and Sharpton do exactly the same.
dago
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David Horowitz said it best:
TEN REASONS WHY REPARATIONS FOR BLACKS IS A BAD IDEA
One
There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery
Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?
Two
There Is No One Group That Benefited Exclusively From Its Fruits
The claim for reparations is premised on the false assumption that only whites have benefited from slavery. If slave labor created wealth for Americans, then obviously it has created wealth for black Americans as well, including the descendants of slaves. The GNP of black America is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous "nation" in the world. American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of twenty to fifty times that of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were kidnapped.
Three
Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them
Only a tiny minority of Americans ever owned slaves. This is true even for those who lived in the ante-bellum South where only one white in five was a slaveholder. Why should their descendants owe a debt? What about the descendants of the 350,000 Union soldiers who died to free the slaves? They gave their lives. What possible moral principle would ask them to pay (through their descendants) again?
Four
America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery
The two great waves of American immigration occurred after 1880 and then after 1960. What rationale would require Vietnamese boat people, Russian refuseniks, Iranian refugees, and Armenian victims of the Turkish persecution, Jews, Mexicans Greeks, or Polish, Hungarian, Cambodian and Korean victims of Communism, to pay reparations to American blacks?
Five
The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury
The historical precedents generally invoked to justify the reparations claim are payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, Japanese-Americans and African- American victims of racial experiments in Tuskegee, or racial outrages in Rosewood and Oklahoma City. But in each case, the recipients of reparations were the direct victims of the injustice or their immediate families. This would be the only case of reparations to people who were not immediately affected and whose sole qualification to receive reparations would be racial. As has already been pointed out, during the slavery era, many blacks were free men or slave-owners themselves, yet the reparations claimants make no distinction between the roles blacks actually played in the injustice itself. Randall Robinson's book on reparations, The Debt, which is the manifesto of the reparations movement is pointedly sub-titled "What America Owes To Blacks." If this is not racism, what is?
Six
The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination
No evidence-based attempt has been made to prove that living individuals have been adversely affected by a slave system that was ended over 150 years ago. But there is plenty of evidence the hardships that occurred were hardships that individuals could and did overcome. The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. Does its existence not suggest that economic adversity is the result of failures of individual character rather than the lingering after-effects of racial discrimination and a slave system that ceased to exist well over a century ago? West Indian blacks in America are also descended from slaves but their average incomes are equivalent to the average incomes of whites ( and nearly 25% higher than the average incomes of American born blacks). How is it that slavery adversely affected one large group of descendants but not the other? How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective - and yet so critical - to the case?
Seven
The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community.
The renewed sense of grievance -- which is what the claim for reparations will inevitably create -- is neither a constructive nor a helpful message for black leaders to be sending to their communities and to others. To focus the social passions of African-Americans on what some Americans may have done to their ancestors fifty or a hundred and fifty years ago is to burden them with a crippling sense of victim-hood. How are the millions of refugees from tyranny and genocide who are now living in America going to receive these claims, moreover, except as demands for special treatment, an extravagant new handout that is only necessary because some blacks can't seem to locate the ladder of opportunity within reach of others -- many less privileged than themselves?
Eight
Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid
Since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts and the advent of the Great Society in 1965, trillions of dollars in transfer payments have been made to African-Americans in the form of welfare benefits and racial preferences (in contracts, job placements and educational admissions) - all under the rationale of redressing historic racial grievances. It is said that reparations are necessary to achieve a healing between African-Americans and other Americans. If trillion dollar restitutions and a wholesale rewriting of American law (in order to accommodate racial preferences) for African-Americans is not enough to achieve a "healing," what will?
Nine
What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?
Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade was born, and in all societies. But in the thousand years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Christians - Englishmen and Americans -- created one. If not for the anti-slavery attitudes and military power of white Englishmen and Americans, the slave trade would not have been brought to an end. If not for the sacrifices of white soldiers and a white American president who gave his life to sign the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks in America would still be slaves. If not for the dedication of Americans of all ethnicities and colors to a society based on the principle that all men are created equal, blacks in America would not enjoy the highest standard of living of blacks anywhere in the world, and indeed one of the highest standards of living of any people in the world. They would not enjoy the greatest freedoms and the most thoroughly protected individual rights anywhere. Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?
Ten
The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom
Blacks were here before the Mayflower. Who is more American than the descendants of African slaves? For the African-American community to isolate itself even further from America is to embark on a course whose implications are troubling. Yet the African-American community has had a long-running flirtation with separatists, nationalists and the political left, who want African-Americans to be no part of America's social contract. African Americans should reject this temptation.
For all America's faults, African-Americans have an enormous stake in their country and its heritage. It is this heritage that is really under attack by the reparations movement. The reparations claim is one more assault on America, conducted by racial separatists and the political left. It is an attack not only on white Americans, but on all Americans -- especially African-Americans.
America's African-American citizens are the richest and most privileged black people alive -- a bounty that is a direct result of the heritage that is under assault. The American idea needs the support of its African-American citizens. But African-Americans also need the support of the American idea. For it is this idea that led to the principles and institutions that have set African-Americans - and all of us -- free.
That said... use terms like "those people" and don't be surprised if you get generalized as a bigot.
EDIT: Oh toejam... are liberals allowed to agree with David Horowitz? :D
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Near as I can tell, my ancestors came from Poland and Yugoslavia in the early 1900's. My polish half farmed, the Slavanian half mined iron ore in Northern Minnesota.
Last time I checked, none of them owned slaves, and I wasn't born yet. Guess that leave me out too.
What a load of crap..... Nothing like shriking resposibility and doing something for yourself to improve your situation. There are enough "handouts" out there arleady to help people down and out. Trouble is, most are too lazy to go and get it.
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Reason #4, Modas.
:)
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EDIT: Oh toejam... are liberals allowed to agree with David Horowitz?
That'll cost you 2 liberal demerits and your ACLU card for 1 week.
Now DON'T let it happen again!
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What do I lose if I think affirmative action is a load of crap? :D
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I dont think this reparations thing will get anywhere, however I do find the idea intrguing as I am Slavic - my people were enslaved so much throught history the very institution of slavery was named after us. So all you bastiges owe me some money, now..... :D
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I can't recall anyone in my family ever owning a Slavic.
Do they do yard work? Do they eat a lot?
:D
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Figured you for a closet conservative Sandman.
http://www.inettek.com/sounds/give.wav
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Reparations for Vanilla Ice would be fair.
As far as the rest of it:
The federal government already has a massive system to confiscate our money and give it to them. If they want more they can kiss my ass.
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Hell, I demand reparations for being enslaved by the federal government. Sonsasqueakes confiscate 30 to 40% of my income before I even see it. That means I'm their N-word about 4 months out of every year. I've been working since I was 16, so that makes 5 years of reparations the bastards owe me. Tell Mr. Cochrane to email me at oj@slashedem.com and I'll give him the address to send the checks to.
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I don't know where the hell it goes but the various governments are getting more of my money than me.
Income tax: %29
Self Employment tax: %15
State sales tax: %8.25 (of most purchases)
Property tax: %4
Total: %56
(yeah, maybe I shouldn't do my own taxes)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I dont think this reparations thing will get anywhere, however I do find the idea intrguing as I am Slavic - my people were enslaved so much throught history the very institution of slavery was named after us. So all you bastiges owe me some money, now..... :D
Does this have something to do w/them YUGO's we brought over here? I think most where set free....
xBAT
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Dago: Hitler wanted an issue to rally the German people, he held up the Jews as the cause of all the problems facing Germany in the late 30s, early 40s. Its not the issue itself, but rather give the people a scapegoat or greedy rallying cry.
And he succeeded spectacularly - from a jail went all the way to undisputed and beloved dictator of one of the most powerfull countries of the world.
Jackson, Faracon and Sharpton do exactly the same.
Why doesnt the Black community rise up and tell them to crawl back into their holes?
You've just answered your own question - they use strategy that works.
Why don't they choose leaders who have good hearts and will serve the communities of Black citizens instead of their own selfish desires?
You do not suggest that american "diversity" is smarter or wiser than germans of 1930s?
Or were those questions rhetorical?
miko
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Christ people, are you really gullible enough to believe that these tards will get anything of what they ask?
Twenty years ago I thought the anti-smoking crowd was a bunch of cranky health nuts who couldn't mind their own business. Today there have been billions of dollars of 'restitution' paid out to greedy scumbag lawyer sub humans. Smokers are treated like lepers by law. Some dumb squeak smokes for 30 years and gets cancer, and she sues for $28 billion. All of this feeds the it-pays-to-ba-a-victim mentality of the nation.
So when some tards say I owe them for slavery, I hide my wallet. This is Oprah's America.
ra (never smoked, never will)
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Originally posted by AKIron
Figured you for a closet conservative Sandman.
http://www.inettek.com/sounds/give.wav
Wav didn't work...
Still... that's just mean. :)
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It's a Democratic plot! :D
Shuckins
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Originally posted by batdog
Does this have something to do w/them YUGO's we brought over here? I think most where set free....
xBAT
How dare you! YUGO cars were actually just assembled in Yugoslavia, the majorty of the components were manufactured in Italy or so I hear.... :D
I'm still waiting for my check.....
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The racist idiots spewing such hatred is very unamerican, at least in ideals. Perhaps, they should be the ones to "go back where they came from." We'll never evolve until we end this hatred based on stupidity. Quit being so insecure.
I submit the beginning a very powerful document:
WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great- Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.
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BTW, if you were truly secure with yourself, and ful of self confidence, you'd not be attacking and insulting groups 'different' than your own. When I see prejudice, I see ignorance, hate, and insecurity in that person. LOL, the saddest part is that you don't realize it. Maybe it's worse than ignorance. You go figure it out.
LOL, now I leave you all to who 'you' is/are.
Regards.
PS. Please do some real thinking and answer with a bit of intelligence, if you all can.
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What does the Declaration of Independence have to do with reparations?
It never freed the slaves. It took a civil war for that to happen. You couldnt even vote unless you were a white male property owner after the Revolutionary war.
Even though the supreme court doesnt feel obligated to consider "original intent" when making a ruling its a good idea to look into it when making an arguement. If you had done so you would see the Declaration of Independence is not the grandiose document you make it out to be. Its an important Document in American History but trying to install some sense of "transcedence" on it, especially given the conditions that followed, is misplaced.
The only question that needs answering is if one unjust act is enough to overcome another. Having the government confiscate money from a generation of its citizen to right a wrong of a generation several hundred years ago is wrong.
It may make you fell better to label anyone who objects to this as racist but thats here nor there. This is about money.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
BTW, if you were truly secure with yourself, and ful of self confidence, you'd not be attacking and insulting groups 'different' than your own. When I see prejudice, I see ignorance, hate, and insecurity in that person. LOL, the saddest part is that you don't realize it. Maybe it's worse than ignorance. You go figure it out.
LOL, now I leave you all to who 'you' is/are.
Regards.
PS. Please do some real thinking and answer with a bit of intelligence, if you all can.
thank you oh enlightened one for blessing us with your presence!
LOL
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Originally posted by Wotan
What does the Declaration of Independence have to do with reparations?
It never freed the slaves. It took a civil war for that to happen. You couldnt even vote unless you were a white male property owner after the Revolutionary war.
Even though the supreme court doesnt feel obligated to consider "original intent" when making a ruling its a good idea to look into it when making an arguement. If you had done so you would see the Declaration of Independence is not the grandiose document you make it out to be. Its an important Document in American History but trying to install some sense of "transcedence" on it, especially given the conditions that followed, is misplaced.
The only question that needs answering is if one unjust act is enough to overcome another. Having the government confiscate money from a generation of its citizen to right a wrong of a generation several hundred years ago is wrong.
It may make you fell better to label anyone who objects to this as racist but thats here nor there. This is about money.
LOL, where am I inferring in my post about reparations? Re-read it.
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Well thats what this thread is about. Opposing reparations is not racist. Being angry that some chalatans would make some demand for money from folks who had nothing to do with slavery is not racist.
So enlighten us some more. How about coming out and making a clear point?
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Reparations are not enough. Some of those vile slave-owners forced themselves on enslaved blacks (unable to give concent - being slaves and all) and propagated their evil seed. We may not be able to punish the evildoers financially but we can still punish them biologically by stopping their evil line. Why should they (evil dead white rapists) continue prospering from their evil deed and we suffer the presence of ill-conceived bastards progeny. The progeny some of whom tries to benefit further from their ancestors' unspeakable acts by pretending to be black and demanding reparations themselves? isn't that an offence to all people, the blacks especially?
Of course I do not suggest any violence and coercion - everything must be voluntary, democratic and humane.
Everyone who supports reparations should have to undergo genetic test.
If a mix of "white" and "black" genes is determined, the said individual get's sterilised to spread the rapist's evil line - along with his children. His assets go towards the reparations.
If an individual is of pure african descent and had ancestors as slaves in US, he get's paid.
It's very simple technically. There are plenty (dozens) of genetic alleles that are exclusive to africans and europeans respectively.
According to research, average admixture of white blood in people who consider themselves black is 4% to 30% - lowest south-east and increasing north and west. So there should be not many real victims of slavery to overtax the treasury.
I am not even requesting any comissions for such a brilliant plan! :rolleyes:
miko
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I think reparations are a bad idea too. But that does not excuse some of the simple minded bigotry some have spouted in this thread.
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I am a bigot when it comes to people arbitrarily choosing their ancestry to justify being losers or being owed something.
Reparationist: "I am such a loser - my grandmother was brought into this country against her will, she was not self-selected as other immigrants. She was oppressed. That is why I am so uncapable. Give me your money..."
miko: "But al least your grandfather was a raping wealthy motivated go-getter who opressed others and took what he wanted. You have all attributes for success. Go and get a job. Or are you saying black genes have much greater influence? Wouldn't that be racist?"
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Originally posted by Wotan
Well thats what this thread is about. Opposing reparations is not racist. Being angry that some chalatans would make some demand for money from folks who had nothing to do with slavery is not racist.
So enlighten us some more. How about coming out and making a clear point?
LOL, just for you Wotan since you just seem to miss it.
Does it go to Louis FarraCON or Rev. Jesse "Hypocrit" Jackson or Al Sharp-Im-Not
what a bunch of cretins.
Yeah...me either. Just find it amusing what some people will argue about or try to scam money for.
Anyone born after Dec 1865 gets nothing. They weren't slaves, so they get squat.
they've been getting paid all along:
its called food stamps, unemployment, free medical/dental, gov housing & enough pocket change to lease that bmw
now they want a "bonus"?
Screw "PC" speak. I think Eagler is dead on the money.
Screw the dollar, I'll pay for the friggin ticket back to Africa for them.
So if the blacks in this country want some restitution they should go back to Africa and sue their ancestors.
So everyone who had a slave ancestor is entitled to a one-way, first class airline ticket to the african nation of thier choice.
I think those two are N****rs. The play on the weak to raise support by blaming the weaks' problems on the America then cash in on it. I wish the sniper to those two out along with farakhan. FTBS
The decedents of slaves benefit far more by being here then there. I say they are paid in full.
As a matter a fact I believe I have over paid and expect to be paid back. How much has been handed out in social programs since Johnsons war on poverty began?
Any of you old punk rock anarchist types remember the band Crass?
"They owe us a living" ...... no we dont
They can go back to their dung hut, aids and starvation. I bet we could then sell umm tickets back to the US at a profit.
They wont get a cent out of me! + i already give every damn time one of the "Down on his luck brotha who axes me fo sum change in da street" AKA diddlying bum!
if it were up to the MT types we'd be handing them a blank check ..
give it time, they'll probably get something in the end - the longer it takes the more interest they can charge whitey
btw - my lineage started in 1903 when my great grandparents stepped off the boat from Italy with two nickels to rub together.
I didn't get any benny's from the slave trade either - that is unless you count the enterainment I get on Sunday watching the descendents of those slaves making millions on the grid iron
so MT.... it is only fair to make fun of white people who are stupid and greedy? Seems you are being the racist... not treating everone equally and all.
Since it was addressed to me I will expand a bit. I am sick and tired of having this crap rammed down my throat. I believe in equal everything, but when you start talking reparations, all you are accomplishing is setting everything back another twenty years.
Now, you can call me a racist for my tribute to this thread, and I don't care, but don't go thinking of your own superiority unless you truely know me and what I have experienced. Reverse racism is just as alive today as racism.
We all know this is how it starts. The proffessional racial blackmailers beg and make enough noise that over time people start taking them seriously. Then the checks start and they they get bigger and bigger.
The government takes enough money from the citizenry already. When some thing as silly as this starts folks who know its bs need to get loud and let those who would give these charlatans a blank check know that if they are going to get on their soup box then they will be shouted down.
If you wanna give away your money then get out your check book and send it to your local oppressed decendents of slaves club. Jesse Jackson and crew extort enough money from corporations and the like already. They use the money for other things (paying off a mistresses and love children).
Nothing is stopping those of you who feel "guilty" for slavery or how the descendents of slaves were/are or have been treated from giving away your money. Feel free to absolve your guilt with fat personal check.
Those of us who dont feel guilty for anything and never owned a slave or never made a black person get up from a lunch counter arent going to be blackmailed. If you want or expect money from the citizenry for something they werent responsible for and attempt to use the government to get it then folks will voice their opposition.
Now to attempt to shut these folks up by using the word "racist" only works on folks who feel guilty. Throw it around all you want it still wont get you a dime.
As for the American Dream and all that as long as every citizen has equal protection under the law then its up to each each individaul to find his/her dream. But when folks attempt to change the law to their limited benefit its up to everyone to stop them. Now I am sure you will bring jim crow or slavery but it was the responsibility of those directly affected to seek relief from those who were directly involved. Coming to folks decades later, folks whos ancestors werent even a part of this country and expect them to pick up the tab for nothing they had to do with is wrong.
one thing MT. When these guys speak of reparations they are talking about direct compensation for slavery itself.
You mix up jim crow and the conditions of blacks since 1865. I think that the justification for affimirmitive actions and other types of social programs were to remedy or atleast make some minor recompense to those who suffered. Thats a different issue then paying "wages" and punitive damages for slavery.
I may be wrong since all I hear is sound bites and read short clippings in the news paper about "reparations".
If you want things to get better it seems to me that demanding that a generation of folks who had nothing to do with slavery pay the bill would be the wrong way to go. You cant expect to right the wrongs of Racism by holding a people who had nothing to do with it responsible. In fact, do you think it could actually make things worse?
Or is this "just about the money"?
I know what the Jacksons and Sharptons and the proffessional race baiters think. Its the money.
I try not to be bigoted against any race of people, but rather judge people individually. It isn't easy for anyone to do, and like it or not, every race of people are racist in ways.
What irriatates me about the reperations issue is that scum like Faracon (horribly bigoted troublemaker), Jesse Jackson (hypocritical lieing cheating scum) and Al Sharpton (attention seeking blowhard) stand up and pretend to represent "their people". I certainly wouldn't use the term "Reverend" for any of these people, they are not persons of God, they are scamming, power and attention seeking liars.
Why doesnt the Black community rise up and tell them to crawl back into their holes? Why don't they choose leaders who have good hearts and will serve the communities of Black citizens instead of their own selfish desires?
Reparations is the latest attempt to hold an issue up that the Black community can use as a solidifying issue. Greed appeals.
Hitler wanted an issue to rally the German people, he held up the Jews as the cause of all the problems facing Germany in the late 30s, early 40s. Its not the issue itself, but rather give the people a scapegoat or greedy rallying cry. Jackson, Faracon and Sharpton do exactly the same.
...to be continued
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why all the quotes of stuff I just read ?
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big·ot Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
Doesn't define me....perhaps it applies more to those who use the word.
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Personally I am against reparations in the form of a check. The racism, prejudice, hate, and ignorance shown in this very thread alone shows we have a long, long way to go before the economic playing field is leveled.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
why all the quotes of stuff I just read ?
Ask Wotan.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I think reparations are a bad idea too. But that does not excuse some of the simple minded bigotry some have spouted in this thread.
Right on! there are a few here that actually GET it. S!
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Give me a break :rolleyes:
The USA will be a paradise just like South Africa ask Mr Mandela LOL.
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I'm got some bills that need paid so it's about time I got my reperations ! You crooks need to pay up !
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LOL so far the only argument I'm hearing from the lefties in this thread is "opposing reparations is racist". :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Goth
big·ot Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
Doesn't define me....perhaps it applies more to those who use the word.
Screw the dollar, I'll pay for the friggin ticket back to Africa for them.
Goth,
Wow, how could anyone in their right mind possibly include you? Your second quote is just so tolerant, intelligent, and not prejudiced! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by funkedup
LOL so far the only argument I'm hearing from the lefties in this thread is "opposing reparations is racist". :rolleyes:
Who said opposing reparations is racist?
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Saburos opposing the Jacksons and Sharptons is not racist.
Using an example of how cultural contact has improved the conditions of Native Africans living in the US as an offset against reparations isnt racist.
Accussing the professional race baiters of using reparation as a means to get attention isnt racism.
Nothing that you quoted in the context of the government confiscating money from folks who had nothing to do with slavery is racism.
This post isnt about race its about money and telling those clowns that no matter how they beg and plead to piss off.
Any sufferage the descendents of slaves percieve today is offset by the benefits they have recieved by simply remaining here. If any living slave can get any living slave holder to pay him back wages and punitive damages in a court then most in this thread could careless. But when they come to people who are in no way responsible and demand a check then folks will get pissed and tell umm where they can go.
You want peace between races then go to the Race pedlers and tell them to shut up. Because what they do damages race relations far more then a few old fat guys on a bbs.
EDIT BTW nothing you posted has anything to do with the Declaration of Indepedence.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Goth,
Wow, how could anyone in their right mind possibly include you? Your second quote is just so tolerant, intelligent, and not prejudiced! :rolleyes:
And how could you possibly interpret my first quote as being racist. I am merely offering a different solution to their reparation proposal.
Truely, I will now admit that I am a bigot when it comes to certain things. I find it intolerable that certain groups feel that they are owed anything. As far as being racist, I categorically deny any involvement with that.
Maybe my first quote was a bit of seriousness and a bit of troll. I do know that I am fed up with the whole rediculous issue of reparations. I also know that as long as the issue is continually raised, certain groups will never be able to move forward.
Is it better to put a dollar amount on the suffering that happened years ago, or is it better to recognize and move forward with the multitude of opportunities that now abound? Personally, I think it's like opening an old wound and digging around when asking for reparations, makes that wound that much harder to heal.
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Where do the Icey Hot Stuntaz fall on this issue?
But seriously folks - I think reperations are a GREAT idea!!!
In fact, lets take it a step further, shall we? My father is German and my mother is Polish, so Ive figured it out...
1.) Dad pays Mom for that whole holocaust thing.
2.) Mom gets money from current German government for the sneaky little invasion deal in '39.
3.) Dad gets money from the Brits, Americans, French, and Russians because DAMNIT, you split our country in two!
4.) Dad pays money to Russia because of that "Barbarosa" thing or whatever it was.
5.) Russia pays Dad for razing Berlin.
6.) Mom gets more money just because shes Polish.
7.) Unfortunately Dad has to pay more for the WWI thing, the trenches and all that.
8.) However, Dad gets reperations from the Brits, Frogs, and Tommies because of the reperations he was made to pay after the war in the first place!
9.) Mazz has to pay reperations because of his "Frog" reference and issue a statement: "Ahem, I apologize for refering to the great people of France as frogs. Their wine, cheese, and body odor are second to none."
Normally I would recommend that you let these chaps just blow hot air until they fizzel out - however as a smoker, I saw what happened last time I thought a bunch of people were nuts and needed a job.
Hey... we smokers should get together and demand reparations... at nearly $5.00 per pack, we're pretty much responsible for paying out most of this money anyway!
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Originally posted by Wotan
Saburos opposing the Jacksons and Sharptons is not racist.
Using an example of how cultural contact has improved the conditions of Native Africans living in the US as an offset against reparations isnt racist.
Accussing the professional race baiters of using reparation as a means to get attention isnt racism.
Nothing that you quoted in the context of the government confiscating money from folks who had nothing to do with slavery is racism.
This post isnt about race its about money and telling those clowns that no matter how they beg and plead to piss off.
Any sufferage the descendents of slaves percieve today is offset by the benefits they have recieved by simply remaining here. If any living slave can get any living slave holder to pay him back wages and punitive damages in a court then most in this thread could careless. But when they come to people who are in no way responsible and demand a check then folks will get pissed and tell umm where they can go.
You want peace between races then go to the Race pedlers and tell them to shut up. Because what they do damages race relations far more then a few old fat guys on a bbs.
EDIT BTW nothing you posted has anything to do with the Declaration of Indepedence.
Just for you Wotan cause you're special.
Just a small sampling from our nice document:
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness
You're welcome.
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And how does relate to reparations.......
You do know that the Declaration of Independence isnt a law and that for the 1st 100 years of United States that this was run by oligarchy of wealthy white property owners that even though some opposed slavery they certainly didnt not envision America as a "melting pot". Read what Jefferson and Lincoln said about free black men in America. Thats why I mentioned the whole thing about "original intent" in my 1st reply to you. You are using a few phrases from a document and taking it out of the context it was written. Those few words have nothing to with racism.
You do know that it took a civil war and untold dollars to get to where we are now and that at this point any demand for reparation does nothing except to hurt race relations. I assume you also know that those who are making the call for reparations are crooks and charlatans that use reparation as a means to gain attention for themselves. That and they want the money.
You entered this thread and claimed every statement made in opposition to reparations and to the clowns who are out in front with their hands out is racist. I cant speak for everyone in this thread. But race doesnt matter a bit. I wouldnt want to pay reparations to Indinians or Irish or Chineese or French or Spanish. I would tell them the same thing. Even if a few guys are true racists in this thread it doesnt make the subject of reparations any less heated or opposition to reparations racism.
Read your history before you attempt to quote it.
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Originally posted by Goth
And how could you possibly interpret my first quote as being racist. I am merely offering a different solution to their reparation proposal.
Goth, Goth, Goth,.....
I'll try to help you out here.
I'll pay for the friggin ticket back to Africa for them.
The people you're referring to are United States Citizens, no?
Ship them 'back' to where? Your very statement is racist, bigoted, and prejudiced. A racism is prejudice, prejudice is not necessarily racism.
Truely, I will now admit that I am a bigot when it comes to certain things. I find it intolerable that certain groups feel that they are owed anything. As far as being racist, I categorically deny any involvement with that.
Since we are dealing with 'race' here, you are being racist by your quote. LOL you admit to bigotry like it's no big deal. Racism is bigotry although bigotry is not necessarily racism. Your bigotry includes racism.
Maybe my first quote was a bit of seriousness and a bit of troll. I do know that I am fed up with the whole rediculous issue of reparations. I also know that as long as the issue is continually raised, certain groups will never be able to move forward.
Seriousness or troll it is prejudice. Not a good thing in most people's book (at least I certainly hope so), won't you agree?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I can't recall anyone in my family ever owning a Slavic.
Do they do yard work? Do they eat a lot?
:D
LOL! You card! :)
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I'm just so... tired... of apologizing for not being black. If I am going to be called a bigot anyway, I guess I'll be the bestest bigot I can be.
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Originally posted by Wotan
And how does relate to reparations.......
You do know that the Declaration of Independence isnt a law and that for the 1st 100 years of United States that this was run by oligarchy of wealthy white property owners that even though some opposed slavery they certainly didnt not envision America as a "melting pot". Read what Jefferson and Lincoln said about free black men in America. Thats why I mentioned the whole thing about "original intent" in my 1st reply to you. You are using a few phrases from a document and taking it out of the context it was written. Those few words have nothing to with racism.
You do know that it took a civil war and untold dollars to get to where we are now and that at this point any demand for reparation does nothing except to hurt race relations. I assume you also know that those who are making the call for reparations are crooks and charlatans that use reparation as a means to gain attention for themselves. That and they want the money.
You entered this thread and claimed every statement made in opposition to reparations and to the clowns who are out in front with their hands out is racist. I cant speak for everyone in this thread. But race doesnt matter a bit. I wouldnt want to pay reparations to Indinians or Irish or Chineese or French or Spanish. I would tell them the same thing. Even if a few guys are true racists in this thread it doesnt make the subject of reparations any less heated or opposition to reparations racism.
Read your history before you attempt to quote it.
I was referring to both racism and prejudice that I saw in a lot of the posts in this thread. Because they were arguing, using prejudiced and racism, it appears that is the driving force of their arguement.
I never said the Declaration of Independence was a law, but a powerful document. It includes some very strong ideals for us Americans. Too bad you missed the point.
Also I never claimed that every statement made in opposition was racist. There are a few that are not. I'll help you out here since you seem to be having difficulty comprehending what you're reading:
Sandman
Animal
Midnight Target
mine
Just a sample.
You're welcome.
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Damn, I've tried to think of something appropiate to say to add a bit of levity, satire or derision to this thread but really there's nothing to say. Comments SaburoS has quoted pretty much say it all- the title "reperations" basically says "spew your racism here" and that's what's happened. By all means, carry on.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Who said opposing reparations is racist?
The guys quoting statements opposing reparations and then blabbing about racism and bigotry.
Read SabroS' posts. Basically if you disagree with him, you are a black hater.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Damn, I've tried to think of something appropiate to say to add a bit of levity, satire or derision to this thread but really there's nothing to say. Comments SaburoS has quoted pretty much say it all- the title "reperations" basically says "spew your racism here" and that's what's happened. By all means, carry on.
BINGO! S!
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Originally posted by Airhead
the title "reperations" basically says "spew your racism here" and that's what's happened. By all means, carry on.
Well the logic behind reparations is totally racist and full of prejudice, so what did you expect?
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funked, the possibility of reperations rank right up there with the posibility of Charles Manson being paroled and the Beltway Snipers being found innocent. I was addressing the fact that so many used the guise of speaking out against reperations as an excuse to vent their racism against "them," meaning the African Americans. At any rate I haven't heard one person speak out in favor of reperations. Have you? I HAVE read racist comments from people most recently quoted by SaburoS. Have you? Or did you skip that post?
Hey, carry on boys, politics aren't my thing. Just don't waddle around quacking and I won't call you a duck, OK?
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Originally posted by funkedup
Well the logic behind reparations is totally racist and full of prejudice, so what did you expect?
I expect to see logical arguements written by fairly mature adults instead of some of the diatribe I see from some that are prejudiced. I guess I expect too much, no?
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Originally posted by Airhead
I HAVE read racist comments from people most recently quoted by SaburoS. Have you? Or did you skip that post?
Most of the stuff he posted was not racist at all. One guy almost used the N-word. The racists are the people proposing moronic programs like reparations.
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A group of people have decided that everybody who does not share their skin color owes them money for long-past deeds which must be "undone". A proposal to send this group of people back to their homeland is just another way of "undoing" the bad things done by the slavery system. There is nothing inherently racist about it, at least no more racist than reparations. I guess they don't want slavery completely undone. Only the part where they get yet another handout.
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No one cares about your expectations. If you dont like it why bother reading it? If you are bothered by what you deem immature racist and bigotted comments why put yourself through it?
You have not changed anyones mind. You haven't even offered a good arguement. You completely went over the top by quoting the Declaration of Independence out of context. You then went and picked out quotes from everyone who doesnt agree with you and labelled them racist.
Its you who are the bigot casting judgement on people you dont even know.
It the racists who brought the whole idea of reparations up to begin with. If you want racially harmony then tell those charlatans to shut up.
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Originally posted by funkedup
The guys quoting statements opposing reparations and then blabbing about racism and bigotry.
Read SabroS' posts. Basically if you disagree with him, you are a black hater.
Well I guess you missed the intro. I actually started the quotes, and I did do a racism rant. I am really disappointed in the level of whit I see here. Not levity whit, but whit in the guise of intelligence. Like Airhead and I and Subaru and sandman tried to point out. Too many posts here are just racial bigotry pure and simple.
Being against reparations is one thing. Throwing on your sheet and railing against THEM and THEY and THOSE PEOPLE is racism pure and simple.
Maybe you all don't mean it. I hope you don't. But it remains as described and that is a fact that some of you should try very hard to understand.
Wotan,
Comparing some poor African Tutsi to Blacks in this country is really letting your racist slip show. Why not compare to those Blacks in Ghana that run a plantation or to those in South Africa who run a counrty. Even that is not the point.
Compare the opportunity a White man and a Black man have had HERE! That is the real comparison. Because deep down you still think of THEM as THEM as long as you fail to include THEM in the American family.
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For me, "THEM" would be those who are trying to make reparations happen. If criticizing them makes me racist, then so be it. As NWA once said, "F___ THA (PC) POLICE!"
As for "THEM" not being part of the "American family", they are chosing to NOT be part of family by starting divisive BS like the reparations movement.
PS What's racist about pointing out that since the 1960's the federal government has been conducting a massive income redistribution, the primary contributors to which are white and the primary beneficiaries of which are non-white?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OK everyone, what is wrong with the above post?
times up!
The answer is..... Who the F*&% cares if life is better here or in AFRICA! The only thing that matters is whether people of AFRICAN decent have been treated equally over the years, or whether they have had equal opportunities here.
you may now return to your idiotic thread.
BS.... What matters here is a certain group of people are asking, err.. demanding a handout.
Want reparations?
Here's my thoughts:
1) Your a lazy whiney loser.
2) If we get roped into this.. I hope we do it, in the form of contracting a cruise line.
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If you say so MT.
Have you read about SA? hardly the succes you make it out be.
But even a black SA would come to America in a second. If you wanna say "look at the experience of black people here in America, look how bad they have had it" Then logically I can point to how much better off they are here then they would have been in Africa. Even the guy Sandman quoted points this out. Africa for the most part is full of disease and starvation and violence.
I dont think I used the word "them" but even so I am not up to speed on the correct phraseology being used. I am sure you will quote me if I said "them" as a general statement of all blacks in America.
If you frame the black experience in America as opressive and that because of this they are owed something I will point that even at its worse its still a far cry better then whats going on in Africa.
Whether that is racist or not I dont care, but it is true.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Buncha effing racists using this non-issue as an excuse to show your true colors.
Go hide behind your sheets where you belong.
Another bit of BS... here ya go Midnight, feel free bud!
"Donations needed!
Make checks and money orders payable to "The Code Foundation". In the Memo line put "Reparations". The Code Foundation is a 501(c)3. Please send to:
Millions Demand Reparations
New York Organizing Committee
456 Nostrand Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11216
Any questions? Just call Millions for Reparations at 718-443-2223; toll free (866) 817-5729."
MILLIONS FOR REPARATIONS "They Owe Us" (http://www.millionsforreparations.com/index.html)
Hows that for generalizations?
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Who is "they"? ...........:eek:
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LOL....ok Saburo, lemme grab my hood and torch. You found my secret, I pay dues to the Klan.
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Originally posted by Wotan
No one cares about your expectations. If you dont like it why bother reading it? If you are bothered by what you deem immature racist and bigotted comments why put yourself through it?
You have not changed anyones mind. You haven't even offered a good arguement. You completely went over the top by quoting the Declaration of Independence out of context. You then went and picked out quotes from everyone who doesnt agree with you and labelled them racist.
Its you who are the bigot casting judgement on people you dont even know.
It the racists who brought the whole idea of reparations up to begin with. If you want racially harmony then tell those charlatans to shut up.
LOL you have no idea how funny you are.
No one cares about your expectations. If you dont like it why bother reading it?
I don't know about you but I generally have to read something before I can see if it 'bothers' me. You don't?
If you are bothered by what you deem immature racist and bigotted comments why put yourself through it?
Because I see gems of posts by quite a few people that I enjoy reading. I'll exercise my 1st ammendment rights to post here as you are doing.
You have not changed anyones mind.
After seeing some of the posts and responses, I'm not surprised.
You completely went over the top by quoting the Declaration of Independence out of context.
LOL you ARE funny. Are you saying that it is bad to quote part of the Declaration of Independence?
You then went and picked out quotes from everyone who doesnt agree with you and labelled them racist.
I labeled the posts I quoted as prejudiced, racist, and/or hateful.
Tell me what I don't agree with them about? I happen to disagree with those posts I quoted. Get over it. If you still want to champion racism, prejudice, and/or hate so be it. Just don't expect me to fall in line and agree with you.
Its you who are the bigot casting judgement on people you dont even know.
I am commenting on what I see written, nothing more. My comments are directed at individual posts, not whole groups of people. Please consult a dictionary before you post again in this thread. I'm starting to feel sorry for you.
You have a nice day. :)
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Originally posted by Goth
LOL....ok Saburo, lemme grab my hood and torch. You found my secret, I pay dues to the Klan.
LOL one doesn't have to be a KKK member to be a prejudiced person. I hope that is not the yardstick you measure that by.
Regards
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I personally think inserting words to the Preamble and Dec. of Ind. is worse than racism. Gee, Let's see a DOCUMENT written by "slave owners".
I say, give them the money. Because then when that doesn't satisfy the thirst, tell the world to "STFU"! You see, giving them something ($3 billion) is too much. Settle on a lesser figure. "The Victims" have now used the FINAL EXCUSE. Think about that one for a second.
Saboru, I have been told by many "black" people that have agreed on one thing. "All people are prejudiced, it coms down to true honesty".
PS - stop the debauchery of the Dec. of Indep. and Constitution.
You owe every vet that fought and died for this country that much. I do.
Karaya2
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I dont think the argument "they are better over here than in Africa" is any way to argue against reparations. Their ancestors were kidnapped and they are now here as a product of that. It does not matter what their lives are like compared to Africans before or now. Please stop using this argument, it sounds silly.
However there is a connection regarding the status of US Blacks today and the calls for reparations.
The whole reparations thing is just another scam to keep certain activists busy and agitated. With the tremendous and historically unprecedented gains made by the civil rights movement of the 1960s and the vast improvent in the fortunes of all US Blacks there is very little for these political agitators to do anymore. I think even the most arednent liberal must try to see this fact. Black "leaders" today like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are making their name by suing Toyota Corp for an advertisement featuring a Black man with a gold tooth and falsely accusing white politicans of rape. Even a shameless charlatan like Sharpton, who thought nothing of creating a false racist rape case, has to go to Puerto Rico in search of a scandal for his self aggrandizement. Times sure are slow for black political leaders and their victim rants... There just really isn't much for them to do if the great social problem facing Black americans today is a car ad.
Even that Black reparations website has to reach for a story. They complain about everything from the war on terror, the iraq war, Vieques, justify the Zimbabwe government racist land confiscations, and defend rapists. To think even these folks, perhaps the most militant of todays Black activists have very little to say or complain about the status of USA Blacks today. They can only complain about the past and other generally anti-US and left wing causes.
I hope Black america gets some new serious modern adult leadership, outdated childish race whiners like JJ and Sharpton are not very good for anyone these days and are increasing irellevant save for their name recognition.
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Originally posted by Goth
LOL....ok Saburo, lemme grab my hood and torch. You found my secret, I pay dues to the Klan.
Goth, I really wish your racism was that easily identifible, but it's the covert racists like you who are the most prevelant, and dangerous, of racists.
It is obvious you will never give an African American the same consideration for a job you would give a white person, like most of those quoted by SaburoS. It's equally obvious you would deny being prejiduced, bigoted or racist, as you have.
As for your offer to buy every African American a one way ticket back to Africa, let me ask my next door neighbor if he's intrested. He's an engineer with Pacific Gas and Electric Co., a graduate of the University of Georgia, a father of two and a great guy and good neighbor. I'll BRB...
(10 minutes later) Sorry Goth, but he's not interested in your offer. Instead he's made a counter offer suggesting HE pay YOUR way back to Europe so you might return to YOUR homeland. He backs it up with some good points, too- his lineage in North America goes back to Pilgrim times, he makes more money than you, he pays more in taxes than you do...How far does YOUR lineage go back? Nah Goth, if one of you has to "go back to where they came from" I vote it's you. My neighbor is cool, and you are a racist. If this were a TV show you would be voted off the neighborhood. Buh-bye.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
LOL one doesn't have to be a KKK member to be a prejudiced person. I hope that is not the yardstick you measure that by.
Regards
No no no, you've convinced me...I sent in my dues via online the the American KKK. Figure since I'm labeled a racist and a bigot, might as well enjoy the benefits of such. Damn, I'm glad you were here to show me the way.
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Hehe, my neighbor said this, my neighbor said that. Who cares? Why do you guys have to keep pushing this? Immaturity? Stupidity?
JJ is the biggest waste of an excuse for a human being. He preaches "unity" while he creates unrest by fathering illegitimate kids. HE ACTUALLY RAN FOR PRESIDENT?! He would have fit right in. Whoo, what a first-class spokesman. Al "I just love to sue period" Sharpton. Wake me up when he FINALLY says something that is remotely intelligent. He'd sue a sheep for trespassing in a cow pasture for crying out loud.
Judging by your final sentence you have watched those mindless tv game shows that teach America one thing: GREED. You must watch Survivor, and all of those scripted "reality" shows, that have no impact or bearing on society.
I grew up around Blacks (mother taught in Detroit for 28 years). Went to her school often to teach, help, pitch in. You can't just label someone you don't know until you look at him from all planes. I've seen toejam you WISH you would NEVER see. Still have MANY "Black" friends. My brother is Vietnamese, half of you don't know what racism is. You haven't had to scrap in he street because some moron shoots his mouth off. You THINK you do, you DON'T. So here is a nice warm cup of STFU!
Goth, stay away from this pathetic attempt of "divine rightousness". It isn't worth it. They'll maul each other to see who is the most "NON-RACIST" one in here.
Karaya2
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Oh no Airhead, (name so aptly applied) you have pegged me right on the nose. It couldn't be that I just hired a black female in a highly competitive position. It couldn't be that I am totally impressed with her, I'm too racist for that.
It couldn't be that I served in the military along side many black people, some above me and some below me in rank. I could never admire a man like General Powell.
I could never respect a black man of peace like Dr. King. Or even a jew like Jesus.
You people are so arrogant it's funny. You know so much yet display so little.
Yeah, I'm a card carrying Klansman in a Hitler Youth Group. If you're the representative (and Saburo is clumped here too) of peace and goodwill, then I am glad I am a white man who hates.
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You know.... I'm w/Goth on this one. There is alot of self rightous crap being spewed here. Racism... what IS it gents? You see thats the bloody problem anymore. Its been spewed so much,abused so much NOBODY can really tell you where it begins and where it ends.
Personaly I'll decide if I like you by getting to know you or your actions. I couldnt give a rats bellybutton about something called pigmentation or wiether your culture makes you wear some funny hat on your head.
Now.... I think the entire reperations thing is complete utter BS. I couldnt give a rats bellybutton if your ancestors where shipped over here.
What the hell does this have to do w/me? Why the hell should I feel guilty? Hell, how many immigrants worked basicly as friggen serfs/slaves when they came over in textile mills? How many Asian Americans died laying track for railroads? Jesus... do we owe them all hard cash?
The friggen problem is somebody has forgoten Martin L Kings dream. Instead of working towards the future..they wanna pull the past. Instead of working towards a tomarrow where people dont see Black/White/yellow/red..etc they want to make you all that MORE aware/self concious of these so called differences.
xBAT
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"It couldn't be that I just hired a black female in a highly competitive position. It couldn't be that I am totally impressed with her,"
Watch yourself there Goth! Stating that you are impressed with a black person's job performance could betrey your true racism in that you are surprised with them and in really expected that person to fail thus confirming your racist prejudices of black inferiority... Welcome to the modern view of race politics. :(
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International Federation of Trekkers (IFT)
- The International Federation of Trekkers is a nonprofit corporation with the purpose: "to promote the humanistic philosophies and ideals portrayed in the Star Trek myths in a realistic fashion conducive to the continued existence and responsible advancement of human kind. To provide, promote, and support education and positive legal activism in the area of human rights, racial and sexual equality, environmental causes, and space exploration. To promote a more positive impression of Star Trek enthusiasts as intelligent, socially conscious, active individuals who are aware and concerned about the real world today."
Website: http://www.iftcommand.com
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Originally posted by batdog
The friggen problem is somebody has forgoten Martin L Kings dream. Instead of working towards the future..they wanna pull the past. Instead of working towards a tomarrow where people dont see Black/White/yellow/red..etc they want to make you all that MORE aware/self concious of these so called differences.
Look out chaps, how are you gonna argue with this one? Amen BAT.
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Originally posted by Goth
Oh no Airhead, (name so aptly applied) you have pegged me right on the nose. It couldn't be that I just hired a black female in a highly competitive position. It couldn't be that I am totally impressed with her, I'm too racist for that.
LOL First of all, I'm glad you like my name. It's a title as much as a moniker, but it's the one I've had since AOL Air Warrior, so it suits me just fine. I'm glad you like it too.
Goth, I really don't care who you hire for what, all I'm responding to is your comments, which in my opinion are racist. If you want to puff up and talk about your record as a corporate recruiter for Burger King or McDonald's or whatever I really don't care because your offer to pay the air fares of any African Americans who feel their lot might be improved by going "home" has spoke volumes about you. You are a racist, or at the least you have made a racist comment. But that's OK, because you fit right in with much of White America.
Really Goth I don't give a rat's bellybutton that you are a racist, I don't give a rat's bellybutton you are "impressed" that an African American girl can perform your minimum wage job requirements and I don't give a rat's bellybutton you live in a 1 bedroom apartment and think you are achieving some sembelance of the American Dream. Really, you guys worrying about what the "people of color" are up to should worry more about improving your own lot in life and less about what "affermative action," that enemy of the trailer park ignorant, is doing to wreck your life. Don't worry, the amount of reperations you will ever pay is much less than what I leave in tips in restaurants and bars daily anyway.
Like I said, if you walk like a duck and you quack like a duck then you're a friggin duck. Now quit trying to cluck like a chicken.
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Airhead arent you racist by assuming that black woman must be working in a minimum wage job?
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I personally think inserting words to the Preamble and Dec. of Ind. is worse than racism. Gee, Let's see a DOCUMENT written by "slave owners".
I say, give them the money. Because then when that doesn't satisfy the thirst, tell the world to "STFU"! You see, giving them something ($3 billion) is too much. Settle on a lesser figure. "The Victims" have now used the FINAL EXCUSE. Think about that one for a second.
Saboru, I have been told by many "black" people that have agreed on one thing. "All people are prejudiced, it coms down to true honesty".
PS - stop the debauchery of the Dec. of Indep. and Constitution.
You owe every vet that fought and died for this country that much. I do.
Karaya2
LOL, you are funny. You complain about a passage that I happen to feel is very important and very valid. Not a bad goal for any country to strive for. Yet some of the prejudiced comments do not 'bother' you. Very odd. Again, we're not talking about the reparations issue (so far all of us agree it is a bad idea), but the continued arguements against "THEM" and "sending back to Africa", or "THEY'RE better off here than 'THOSE' in Africa".
Sorry, but we're talking about fellow Americans, not Africans. BTW any avg American regardless of race is better off here than the average African (or Chinese for that matter).
BTW far more whites have taken advantage of welfare than any individual minority.
Saboru, I have been told by many "black" people that have agreed on one thing. "All people are prejudiced, it coms down to true honesty".
Sure, I'll buy that. We all pre-judge things, people, animals etc of those we don't know. (again you tend to want to group people as you felt you had a need to quote "black" people (as if that somehow makes you an expert) Why not Asians? Europeans? Arabs?
If you mean all people are racist then I'll disagree...honestly.
You might be, but I am not. LOL, your friends haven't met me.
Have I been discriminated against? You bet. Did I like it? Heck no.
Valuable lesson I learned at a fairly young age. Opened my eyes to what racism was. That's why I am not a racist. I refuse to take skin color as a part of evaluating someone. It's just not a fair thing to do.
PS - stop the debauchery of the Dec. of Indep. and Constitution.
You owe every vet that fought and died for this country that much. I do.
LOL, and you preach to me what I can and can't say. It's ok to spew hatred and racism, but not anything in our Declaration of Independence? Yeah, I can see it now. They're rolling in their graves as I post! Get a grip.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Hehe, my neighbor said this, my neighbor said that. Who cares? Why do you guys have to keep pushing this? Immaturity? Stupidity?
So what's your excuse? Immaturity or Stupidity or both?
JJ is the biggest waste of an excuse for a human being. He preaches "unity" while he creates unrest by fathering illegitimate kids. HE ACTUALLY RAN FOR PRESIDENT?! He would have fit right in. Whoo, what a first-class spokesman. Al "I just love to sue period" Sharpton. Wake me up when he FINALLY says something that is remotely intelligent. He'd sue a sheep for trespassing in a cow pasture for crying out loud.
LOL, and you wake me up when you finally say anything that is remotely intelligent.
I grew up around Blacks (mother taught in Detroit for 28 years). Went to her school often to teach, help, pitch in. You can't just label someone you don't know until you look at him from all planes. I've seen toejam you WISH you would NEVER see. Still have MANY "Black" friends. My brother is Vietnamese, half of you don't know what racism is. You haven't had to scrap in he street because some moron shoots his mouth off. You THINK you do, you DON'T. So here is a nice warm cup of STFU!
The question is, do you know what true racism is, and if you do, do you practice it? Ahh the oh so intelligent STFU response. Please don't tell me that is the most intelligent retort you can come up with.
Goth, stay away from this pathetic attempt of "divine rightousness". It isn't worth it. They'll maul each other to see who is the most "NON-RACIST" one in here.
Yup, speaking up against racism/prejudice/hatred is just so pathetic.
What's truely pathetic is your lack of understanding.
BTW, name anyone here that has said that they support reparation payments?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Airhead arent you racist by assuming that black woman must be working in a minimum wage job?
Nah, I just assume someone like Goth couldn't have much more authority to nominate anyone to anything more than a minimum wage job, given his overt ignorance. Believe me, I have no doubt the vast majority of people Goth interviews have much more ability than he does regardless of their race. The fact that he might be in a position of influence over people of color, in light of his pronouncements, convinces me that racism exists in America today among those making nine dollars an hour hiring those making eight dollars an hour. The fact that they are all slaves is lost upon them, but so what? I care about Goth and his hirees much less than I care about the encroaching blackberry bushes creeping over the top of my fence from my neighbor's yard, so as far as I'm concerned Goth and the rest of the bigots quoted by SaburoS can kiss my lily white ass. Seriously, you do not matter to me.
Like I said, if you waddle like a duck and you quack like a duck then you're a fuggin duck. Quit clucking like a chicken.
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maybe all people of europeon decent are owed reparations from Mongolia for bringing europe the black plague (they also brought the renaisance though...)
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Here's a hint for you morons that don't know what racism is. It's judging some one based on thier race.
IE: Send THEM back to Africa. Them includes ALL black Americans, hell even those that are against reperations themselves.
Reparations aren't racist because they don't target white people. They target the institutinos and companies that profitted from it.
No one on this tread has yet to say that they support reparations. But don't let that get in the way of your little Klan meeting.
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I'm not a racist. I made a comment about it, meaning that I find it amusing that such a subject is even making national news. I also find it amusing that such a person with the smarts that Cochran has thinks this will go anywhere but right where some of you took it. It's a racial powder keg. Sorry if some of you may think I may be racist.
Cochran made a comment that the edcuated in his race that have made it good in "White America" aren't has interested in this....Makes me wonder why?
Think what you want....Say what you want....It is in my opinion just another way to stir up crap.
:(
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Come on Thrawn, you can do better than that.
Proposition: Reperations.
Response: Send them back to africa if they want reperations.
Thrawn's interpretation: This response, for all you ignorant bigots, means all african americans including those not asking for reperations. This is a klan meeting.
Who's stereotyping here Thrawn?
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Originally posted by Fatty
Who's stereotyping here Thrawn?
Click the back button and you'll a find a post by SaburoS showing you exactly who is stereotyping.
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On Explorer?
I clicked the back button and it went to boobsquad.com.
?
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subaruro... judging from your own words you think that every post except those of the few you mentioned are racist. You like using the word... it rolls off your tounge so well and makes you seem so enlightened but... I don't see but a few posts that could be even remotely considered racist and even they are simply backlash that is caused by the whole racist/socialist idea of reparations..
you expect people to be happy about reparations? You expect us to admire a group who would ask for or even accept reparations? To animals credit he admits that it is a bad/stupid idea.
saburo... I would suggest that if you wish to attack people that you do it individually and not as a group lest you be tagged racist. I think you are simply kneejerk reciting what you think will make you apear progressive. I have to believe that because you seem so cowardly in your attacks. You don't defend reparations except to condem those who disagree as racist. A term that you seem to be unable to define as it applies to the posters.
btw funked is correct... Horowitz it correct as allways and much nicer than funked.
lazs
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Originally posted by Creamo
On Explorer?
I clicked the back button and it went to boobsquad.com.
?
LOL whats your password!?!? :eek: :eek: :eek:
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Yeah I've read Subaru's tweaking. I'm just not going to buy the argument that a categorical response to a categorical proposition is racist.
The very idea that people should worry about their wording in opposition so that they do not use race to argue a race based proposal is ludicrous.
Has Nazi surfaced yet? I couldn't be quite interested enough to read every word, but if not it should be showing up soon I'd imagine.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Here's a hint for you morons that don't know what racism is. It's judging some one based on thier race.
IE: Send THEM back to Africa. Them includes ALL black Americans, hell even those that are against reperations themselves.
Reparations aren't racist because they don't target white people. They target the institutinos and companies that profitted from it.
No one on this tread has yet to say that they support reparations. But don't let that get in the way of your little Klan meeting.
Not quite, no one said "Send THEM back to Africa". What I said was that if these black charlatans are going to claim that by simply being black in America their "Sufferage" is so unique and dreadful that they are due some sort of special recompense for simple existing here I am going to point out that even as bad as as these charlatans claim they have had it here they would have it worse off in Africa. In Africa there would be no one to extort money from. So my point is that as much as Africans claim "sufferage" by being here they have also benefitted.
These charlatans arent targeting companies alone but the US government. By doing that they are targeting my money. They are targetting folks who have no connection to slavery.
None of the institutions in government today are the same as they were during slavery. Thats the same with the citizenry.
The specific call for reparations has to do with back wages and punitive damages "owed" by slave owners. None of the slaveholders are still alive and no slaves are alive to sue them.
The majority of Americans living at the time of slavery didnt own slaves. The majority of citizens living today in America had nothing to do with slavery. I doudt you could show that an overwhelming number of blacks in America today had relatives that were slaves.
At the time of the time of slavery the US government was an entirely different entity then it was today. The individaul states themselves had overiding control of what went on in their states. The Civil War and the years following changed that.
The call for reparations is actually an accusation. You cant expect people to to just bow down and write check for something they didnt do. So if you keep the context of the statements made by folks in this thread you will see they are not targeted at "Black people" but at the contention that the rest of us owe them something. Even Bill Clinton couldnt bring himself to apologize on be half of the government for slavery. Thats because the people in government and the citizens of this nation alive today are not responsible for what happened then.
So if you say "gimme 10 billion dollars because I am black". Folks are gonna tell you where to go.
Theres big difference between that and a klan rally.
This thread was about reparations not about being a racist but a few have turned into a thread about "whos the least racist". Leave my wallet alone and I am completely indifferent to how the rest of yas live.
hmmmm I used the word "indifferent" is that code for "I am a racist?". Damn wheres my code book...........
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"they've been getting paid all along:
its called food stamps, unemployment, free medical/dental, gov housing & enough pocket change to lease that bmw
now they want a "bonus"?
"
Happy.
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Originally posted by Fatty
The very idea that people should worry about their wording in opposition so that they do not use race to argue a race based proposal is ludicrous.
It's a good point...
Still, I'd rather take the high ground and not sink to the level of amazinhunks like Al Sharpton.
The entire proposal is just one more way to divide the country. Sure... decide that the descendents of slaves deserve reparations. Deciding who should pay or not based upon heritage is impossible. Deciding that all non-african people should pay is absolutely unfair and racist too.
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Originally posted by Fatty
The very idea that people should worry about their wording in opposition so that they do not use race to argue a race based proposal is ludicrous.
You have neatly summed up the issue here. Of course the kneejerk leftist PC police don't bother with things like logic so don't waste your breath.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
"they've been getting paid all along:
its called food stamps, unemployment, free medical/dental, gov housing & enough pocket change to lease that bmw
now they want a "bonus"?
"
Happy.
So that's racist? Maybe the BMW part. The rest of it is demonstrably true - the same group who would recieve reparations is the same group who has recieved more government handouts than any other similar group (except maybe for native Americans). So the truth is racist now? I guess we should ignore the truth then. Wouldn't be PC.
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Logic?? What's that?? Sheeesh Funked, I had nightmares after looking at that pic of you with the super-long tongue. I didn't sleep worth a damn.
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Are you making fun of my tongue? It's not that big. The myth that hairy white men have big tongues is just that, a myth. You are stereotyping. RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LYNCH HIM!!!!
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Funked....you're a Nazi.
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I have ignored this thread as I thought the concept was patently bogus. I finally got curious enough (bored actually) to look at it. I went to the web site of the group demanding the reperations. I read the information they list and have come to the conclusion that they are in fact divisive, racist in their own postings and attempting to demand that which they are not owed. This is the last paragraph from the site and it sums things up nicely.
The demand for reparations for African people is just and simple. It is simply an attempt to "repair," to "make whole" the descendants of the victims of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade, which was a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY! Crimes against humanity have no statute of limitations. And our people still suffer from the vestiges of their enslavement and colonization.
Please note no mention is made of anyone other than black people. Therefore you can conclude that only black people are victims of a crime against humanity. This totally ignores the fate of the decendants of indentured servants who shared many of the same tribulations. It also ignores all other peoples who were subjugated in the globe. (I have to include the globe as slavery was not unique to the United States)
The claim is made that the reperations are needed to "make whole" the "descendants of slaves". This is patently prposterous as that would require relocating them back to their homeland. No whwere did I see a request to return to Africa. The second part of this would be to show they would be better off had they not been born in the United States. (Assuming that all actual emancipated slaves are in fact deceased.) This position assumes they would have had a better lifestyle, income and conditions in their native land. I am going to find that very hard to believe given the turmoil in Africa and the fact that there is very little in the way of an even comparison of the economies of the two continents. Reperations would have to be made on the actual finding of a real loss. I don't think many of the folks who are behind this move can say they would be better off financially in Africa. If they cannot do this then perhaps there is no validity to the claim.
The fact that the folks in this move are still here in the united States indicates they have no real desire to return to their forefathers native land. They would have filed this action from there if that had been the case.
My last item is that the presence of this thread has in fact shown there is a real divide between many who post here regarding what is racism. Racism isn't soley a white concept. It is a concept of all people in all parts of the globe. Is it right? No. Is it missing in black people? No. Is it something that will be changed or eliminated by this demand for reperations? Absolutely not. In fact it has shown here on this board that is in fact devisive on it's impact of the posts.
Folks, we would be better off if you would just take to heart the "golden rule". Treat others as you would like to be treated and prejudice, racism and other ills of society would disapear. It won't happen of course but try anyhow.
I have been the victim of racist remarks, predjudicial treatment and it was not pleasant. Some comments were related to race, others due to profession. The funny thing is I have been shown prejudice from both aglo and black people as well as hispanics as they saw me through their eyes. They never grasped that I am not from a single "people". I am of mixed heritage and found that neither side wanted to claim me at times as though I had done something wrong in somehow choosing my parents. That was their problem not mine and I will not claim ownership, responsibility for their problem.
I am not responsible for the actions of people who lived before I was born and have no relationship to me. That is my stand on the "reperations issue"
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Originally posted by Maverick
a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY
Expect it says "a" crime against humanity. Not "the only" crime against humanity.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Funked....you're a Nazi.
WE HAVE A WINNAH!
(http://www.raf303.org/funked/glunz-.gif)
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*does a celebration dance*
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Originally posted by Maverick
..............................I am not responsible for the actions of people who lived nefore I was born and have no relationship to me. That is my stand on the "reperations issue"
NICE post Mav13. Ya know, for a TAS puke you aint such a bad dude :D
..... but now your probably a racist ROFL!
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Originally posted by Tumor
NICE post Mav13. Ya know, for a TAS puke you aint such a bad dude :D
..... but now your probably a racist ROFL!
That's MR. TAS puke to you Tumor!
Yep I am a racist, extra terrestrials give me heartburn! Earth for Earthlings only!!! Aliens from outerspace, just send your money and technology, but you stay at home.
:D
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Of the last 800 years or so, Denmark and Sweden has been at war for 142.
I wish to have reparations for the suffering my ancestors felt at the hand of the Swedes.
However, I grew up in Sweden. So i wish reparations for the cruel rule Denmark imposed on Sweden from time to time.
I need the money so I can pay reparations to the French and Britons for the Viking raids around 800-900 BC.
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Hmm, you are going to tell me something intelligent and come up with a response to my STFU?! You copied my posts and inject useless, non-comedy retorts that my black friend's 3 yr old son could have typed.
YOU don't KNOW. Why do people find it necessary to judge others? You think you are king toejam?!
I'm part Scottish, Polish, French, English, Dutch and German (my ancestry). You know after all of that, I'm an AMERICAN.
Boy the amazinhunks in this country like you Subaru, need to leave. You have only shown me one thing so far, you rip people's comments off and type stupid crap in return to "make it original", my country's documents included.
Stay on the toejamter, it isn't full yet.
Karaya2
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I am a decendant of the Irish
My forefathers (most anyway) came to the U.S. in search of freedom, democracy and food! They were forced to work for themselves to make a living... to survive, they did.
I demand reparations to the tune of at least $1,000,000 (to start) because nobody in my entire family before or present has ever been given an economic free ride. I don't feel I should actually have to work my way through life or contribute to society. I deserve free education, medical coverage, food, housing and clothes, not to mention a nice new car (to be delivered yearly) at the taxpayers expense.
I demand reparations immediately or I will squeak and whine until I get them.
P.S. No I don't want to go to Ireland. I want to stay right here in the good ole U.S. of A where there actually are plenty of people stupid enough to buy this hogwash
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OK I think the reparations idea has been thoroughly discredited by just about every band on the BBS political spectrum. Close this thread, new topic.
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wait-wait-wait!
one more:
reparations are baaad mmmkay.
alright - done, sorry continue.
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Tumor, Tumor, Tumor.
You want REPARATIONS from the BRITISH.
Start with the Normans and Henry II; that'll do.
You could be worth MILLIONS!
;)
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Or we could ask for reparations to the Italians after all the western world was chaotic after their empire fell and set us back 1000 years in human scientific discovery! It's ALL THE ROMANS' FAULT!!!
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Look guys, I was first with the Swedish/Danish reparations claim.
So bugger off til I get that :D
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Hmm, you are going to tell me something intelligent and come up with a response to my STFU?! You copied my posts and inject useless, non-comedy retorts that my black friend's 3 yr old son could have typed.
Gee, I wish your friend's 3 yr old son would actually post in your place. I might actually find something resembling an intelligent post. Something you need to work on. My retorts were supposed to be funny? Don't confuse my laughing at you as comedy (although you're posts here are sadly funny).
YOU don't KNOW. Why do people find it necessary to judge others? You think you are king toejam?!
I don't KNOW what? The posts in this thread I perceived as prejudiced, racism, and or hateful? You mean you don't find them that way? Do me a favor and kindly point out the posts I quoted as not being any of the above. Educate me. Show me and others that I am incorrect in forming my opinion based on what I read. Keep in mind that I am not pre-judging people. If someone wants to make a prejudiced comment then he better not get upset if he's called prejudiced based on his post. King toejam? LOL I'm sorry, that must be you.
I'm part Scottish, Polish, French, English, Dutch and German (my ancestry). You know after all of that, I'm an AMERICAN.
And somehow that means automatically that you can't possibly be racist and/or prejudiced? I let my statements stand on their own merits without bringing in my multi-ethnicity or how many friends of whatever race I may have. I don't have this need to 'group' things. My responses have been about specific posts and persons. I'm an AMERICAN also. Race should have nothing to do with being an AMERICAN either, agreed?
Boy the amazinhunks in this country like you Subaru, need to leave. You have only shown me one thing so far, you rip people's comments off and type stupid crap in return to "make it original", my country's documents included.
LOL, I need to leave? Why, because I take exception to some prejudiced, racist, and/or hateful posts? Are you implying that The United States of America has no room for me? Are you that insecure with yourself and so hateful to share this wonderful country of ours with a fellow AMERICAN that happens to share a different viewpoint with you? I happen to understand that an AMERICAN is an AMERICAN regardless of viewpoint, race, creed, color, political affiliation, etc. and no one AMERICAN is more or less AMERICAN. Stupid crap? LOL, you are funny.
Stay on the toejamter, it isn't full yet.
And yet another intelligent retort. LOL. I'm really surprised you aren't embarassed yet.
BTW, what really is your point and position on the issue of using racist, bigoted, and/or prejudiced opinions when commenting on something?
I'm going to help you out here just because I care ;)
I'll start out with some definitions for you. You take it from here. You can ask help from your friend's 3 yr old if you really have trouble.
Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective
Main Entry: 1prej·u·dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at JUDICIAL
Date: 13th century
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
synonym see PREDILECTION
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1661
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big·ot·ed·ly adverb
Main Entry: ig·no·rant
Pronunciation: 'ig-n(&-)r&nt
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 a : destitute of knowledge or education ; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence
2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED
- ig·no·rant·ly adverb
- ig·no·rant·ness noun
Main Entry: hate·ful
Pronunciation: 'hAt-f&l
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 : full of hate : MALICIOUS
2 : deserving of or arousing hate
- hate·ful·ly /-f&-lE/ adverb
- hate·ful·ness noun
Now if you actually read and comprehended what you've been reading, you wouldn't carry on with your silly tirade. PLEASE TAKE YOUR TIME BEFORE YOU RESPOND.
Regards
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Originally posted by lazs2
subaruro... judging from your own words you think that every post except those of the few you mentioned are racist. You like using the word... it rolls off your tounge so well and makes you seem so enlightened but... I don't see but a few posts that could be even remotely considered racist and even they are simply backlash that is caused by the whole racist/socialist idea of reparations..
you expect people to be happy about reparations? You expect us to admire a group who would ask for or even accept reparations? To animals credit he admits that it is a bad/stupid idea.
saburo... I would suggest that if you wish to attack people that you do it individually and not as a group lest you be tagged racist. I think you are simply kneejerk reciting what you think will make you apear progressive. I have to believe that because you seem so cowardly in your attacks. You don't defend reparations except to condem those who disagree as racist. A term that you seem to be unable to define as it applies to the posters.
btw funked is correct... Horowitz it correct as allways and much nicer than funked.
lazs
lazs2,
If you re-read my posts
First one:
The racist idiots spewing such hatred is very unamerican, at least in ideals. Perhaps, they should be the ones to "go back where they came from." We'll never evolve until we end this hatred based on stupidity. Quit being so insecure.
Second one:
BTW, if you were truly secure with yourself, and ful of self confidence, you'd not be attacking and insulting groups 'different' than your own. When I see prejudice, I see ignorance, hate, and insecurity in that person. LOL, the saddest part is that you don't realize it. Maybe it's worse than ignorance. You go figure it out.
Then a little later in this thread I started quoting not only the perceived racist posts, but also those that I perceived as prejudiced and/or hateful. I stopped after the first page as my quotes post was ridiculously long.
Many times in this thread I have stated Racist, prejudiced, and/or hatred. Those posts I quoted fall into one of those three catagories (some belong in more than one.) I didn't classify whole groups nor did I prejudge them. I judged the individual posts based on how I perceived them to be.
Are you insinuating that somehow someone can say racist and/or prejudiced things because they are upset with an issue or that they think an idea might be bad and that person is not racist and/or prejudiced?
I'll say it again. I think reparation payments are a bad idea also. So has every single person that had an opinion of reparations in this thread. My arguement has been about using prejudice, racism, AND/OR hatred as an arguement and/or solution to the reparations issue.
subaruro... judging from your own words you think that every post except those of the few you mentioned are racist.
BTW, please re-read my posts and show me the one that says all the posts I quoted were racist only. I did state the quotes to be racist, prejudiced, and/or hateful. I still do.
Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective
Main Entry: 1prej·u·dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at JUDICIAL
Date: 13th century
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
synonym see PREDILECTION
Main Entry: hate·ful
Pronunciation: 'hAt-f&l
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 : full of hate : MALICIOUS
2 : deserving of or arousing hate
- hate·ful·ly /-f&-lE/ adverb
- hate·ful·ness noun
you expect people to be happy about reparations? You expect us to admire a group who would ask for or even accept reparations? To animals credit he admits that it is a bad/stupid idea.
Being happy, mad, sad, etc should not be a basis for prejudice, racism, and/or hate. Doesn't solve anything.
Why would one have a need to 'admire' a group? I find a big difference from admiration and hate.
Yes, Animal did state reparations to be "roadkill" (I think that's what he said).
Sandman, Midnight Target, and I (to name some) also stated that it was a bad idea. Question for you? Why did you say "to animals credit" and not state anyone else? Just curious.
saburo... I would suggest that if you wish to attack people that you do it individually and not as a group lest you be tagged racist. I think you are simply kneejerk reciting what you think will make you apear progressive. I have to believe that because you seem so cowardly in your attacks. You don't defend reparations except to condem those who disagree as racist. A term that you seem to be unable to define as it applies to the posters
Sorry but where have I "attacked" a whole group based on race? I post here above the definition of racism. Please explain to me how I'm racist. Perhaps you didn't truely know the definition of racist. Please don't take this as an 'attack' against you as it is not. Everyone in this world is ignorant of many things including yours truely. I do know the definition of racism, prejudice, and hatred and made my comments accordingly.
BTW I would think a coward who didn't stand up for one's beliefs, especially if they felt something wrong was going on.
Main Entry: cow·ard
Pronunciation: 'kau(-&)rd
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French coart, from coe tail, from Latin cauda
Date: 13th century
: one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity
- coward adjective
Now had I agreed with those I disagree with for fear of an arguement, then yes I would be a coward.
Regards
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Airhead and/or SaburoS why don't you all tell everyone exactly what makes either of you two so NON-RACIST...
You all seem to get a kick out of calling everyone else a racist and have many examples and smart bellybutton remarks calling others racist why not tell us some of the things and give examples from your daily lives showing how you guys are so NON-RACIST.
Cmon, lets see that! :)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Airhead and/or SaburoS why don't you all tell everyone exactly what makes either of you two so NON-RACIST...
You all seem to get a kick out of calling everyone else a racist and have many examples and smart bellybutton remarks calling others racist why not tell us some of the things and give examples from your daily lives showing how you guys are so NON-RACIST.
Cmon, lets see that! :)
I've called everyone else a racist? Show me.
For your benefit:
Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective
Do you really THINK before you post? Scary thought.
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Everyone take note how SaburoS cleverly managed to avoid answering my question...
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I was directed to this thread with the promise of amusement. For some reason, this bickering didn't quite amuse me. It made me tired. However, having invested the time reading the thread, I can't walk away without saying something.
What I hear is people fed up with debt, whether financial, moral, civic, or some ambiguous combination thereof, deserved or not, and expressing their frustration in racist terms (because, obviously, the face of America is still white). (You can backpeddle, I mean, "clarify" all you want, but the initial snarky remarks were racist.)
Someone, Sandman? made some good points about why reparations won't work, but whitewashed (heh) the century of institutionalized discrimination that followed the Emancipation.
The New Deal (as someone else mentioned) wasn't created to assist specifically black Americans or descendants of slaves. The New Deal was meant to provide a safety net for all Americans after the Great Depression. Affirmative Action, on the other hand, was created to try to combat the existing inequalities (in education, in economic opportunities) most black Americans (and women) faced.
If anyone tries to convince me that the socio-economic playing field was leveled with the Emancipation Proclamation (or women's right to vote), I'll just tell you to go back to your crack pipe. Cos that's just willful delusion.
And yes, privilege is awfully hard to lose, so I understand the resentment.
What gets lost in discussing racism is the a priori advantage that white people, and especially white men, have just for being born white in this country. To use what I hope is a non-controversial example, back when I was growing up (in the 60's and 70's), news anchors reporting crimes didn't use the race signifier "white" when the suspect was white. It was socially understood (i.e., taken for granted) that unless there was a race signifier (black, Chinese, Hispanic), the suspect was obviously white, so there was no need to make that distinction.
If those of you white men eager to pay the fare for Sharpton, et al, to go "back to Africa" are suffering during this dismal economic period, your individual experience doesn't negate the fact that the vast majority of the wealth (both financial and political) in this country belongs to... white men. As a group.
What I'm saying is that you can't extrapolate your anecdotal evidence into a broad social commentary (the backlash bash) or a narrow good-ol'-boy squeakslap against "those people" and not expect to be challenged when you do. In public.
The irony here is the person who extrapolates his experience into a general social dynamic and yet can't grasp that he does the opposite when judging others.
To the person who threw down the "vets fought and died in battle so you could have freedom of speech" gauntlet, I say, Dare we make a travesty of their valiant sacrifice by silencing perspectives you, the self-proclaimed arbiter of acceptable speech, find absurd, a "debauchery"?
To SaburoS: I don't think racism or prejudice or bigotry can be reduced to a self-esteem issue. Jealousy, maybe, but not racism. Racism, and I'm not an expert in psycho-social dynamics, I see as more of an ignorance and superiority-complex issue, the latter of which would dovetail with the idea of the "white standard," a sort of divine-monarchy complex of the white male in America with its inherent social (but not biological) advantages. Who but the most enlightened and noble-minded would want to give that up, or even share it? All men were not created equal, but we should all have equal opportunity. Let character determine the rest.
To get back on the ostensible topic, I don't support reparations for slavery. The concept of compensation for the sins of our fathers, while perhaps fairminded and filled with good intentions, seems inherently convoluted to the point of inefficacy.
As for this current zeitgeist of entitlement, I'll tell you what gets my back hairs up. Families of WTC victims expecting a free ride for the rest of their lives and their children's lives, as if no one ever lost a spouse before September 11.... But that's another topic.
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oooooooooooo... did ya'll see ethernaughts extensive use of big words? :D
anyway...
To get back on the ostensible topic, I don't support reparations for slavery. The concept of compensation for the sins of our fathers, while perhaps fairminded and filled with good intentions, seems inherently convoluted to the point of inefficacy.
[/b]
A more accurate description of reparations IMHO would be: It WILL create overt (release if you want to go there) racism on a level not seen in this country before.
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First of all:
Give the "indians" or "native american" or however they are called their land back!
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hell I'm a native american (born right here) give me some land
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Originally posted by Tumor
oooooooooooo... did ya'll see ethernaughts extensive use of big words? :D
anyway...
And proper punctuation and grammar. Something else that's new to you, Tumour?
It WILL create overt (release if you want to go there) racism on a level not seen in this country before.
Did you get that tip from Ms. Cleo?
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saburo... yu add nothing... we don't even know where you stand on the matter. You are cowardly in attacking those who lashed out and using that to foster a holier than thou attitude. You come off like a knee jerk liberal. Why don't you just say who it is that yu think is racist? Why don't you just tell us how you stand on reparations?
Why did I single out animal? Well... gee... He is the only person that apears to be a black guy in the thread. He would likely have something to gain by reparations. The rest of us (so far as I know) would have something to lose so.... right or not.. we have self interest involved.
st santa... you are a racist with your swede vs ....oh.. wait a minute.. nevermind.
lazs
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Airhead and/or SaburoS why don't you all tell everyone exactly what makes either of you two so NON-RACIST...
GRUNHERZ I was done with this thread, but since you asked...
I deal with people head to head, not body to body. Well, except my wife anyway. I honestly don't care what color you are- amazinhunks come in all the colors of the rainbow, likewise kindered spirits. I don't do funny handshakes because the person I've just been introduced to is black, I don't bow when I meet Asians and I don't keep one hand on my wallet when I meet Mexicans.
Now if I'm walking down the street at night, see someone walikng towards me and he's black, am I more on guard than if he were white? Yeah, but so would a black person be more on guard in my position. You may decide if that makes me a racist or not. Personally I don't think anyone here is in the Klan, but being Irish I would like to state that Tumor is a sellout house Paddy.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Everyone take note how SaburoS cleverly managed to avoid answering my question...
He never does although I wouldn't go so far as to call it clever.
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Originally posted by Guy Hiding Behind a Psuedonym
Blah blah leftie psychobabble blah blah blah oh you guys were right.
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Tumor wrote:
"A more accurate description of reparations IMHO would be: It WILL create overt (release if you want to go there) racism on a level not seen in this country before."
You sure about that, Tumor? Maybe in our lifetime, but certainly not in the lifetime of this country.
Airhead mentioned that if he were out alone at night and saw a black man walking towards him, he would be more alert to potential violence than if the stranger were white.
Recently, I saw a black comedian on a late-night talkshow. His routine was based on his worry about being that black man. A lone black man at night is a potential suspect without an alibi. He said that he made sure he went to a 7-Eleven every thirty minutes and bought something so that he would have a receipt. If he didn't have any money, he argued with the cashier so that the cashier would remember the exchange later. And if a blonde woman walked towards him, he would run in the other direction.
I don't think a white comedian could have gotten the same laughs with that routine.
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Dear funkedup,
I agreed that reparations for slavery was too complicated to work. It doesn't follow that I agreed with the attitudes of those who expressed the same idea.
Same destination, different path.
Love,
e
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I'm all for reparations...As long as it is being sought by the person(s) who was violated(enslaved,forced into prison/concentration camps...etc)
But when it's a generation or two after the fact...Get a life,not a lawyer.
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Originally posted by ethernaut
Tumor wrote:
You sure about that, Tumor? Maybe in our lifetime, but certainly not in the lifetime of this country.
IMO, reparations will create racism, in an overt manner, from ALL races involved, beyond anything we've seen before. Personally... I'm absolutely certain of it. IF granted, the current "demand" for reparations could easily spark a chain reaction (if it hasn't already) that could do wonders towards bankupting this country (if not economicly... socially). I understand the reasoning behind this outlandish "demand" however... I also understand how easy it is to support something that equals your life becoming a "free ride". It's a bad idea... as bad as it is selfish as it is ridiculous. I'm very sorry folks 3 or 4 generations ago were not given these reparations, they should have. The key word being "THEY".
Originally posted by ethernaut
"Airhead mentioned that if he were out alone at night and saw a black man walking towards him, he would be more alert to potential violence than if the stranger were white.
I'm not Airhead. If I see a white guy walking towards me at night, dirty, wearing a bandana and covered with Tattoo's... I'd be allot more guardiant than if it were a black man in a suit. IMHO that analogy is all about how the "guy walking towards me" presents himself. Looks like a gangbanger, walks like a gangbanger, talks like a gangbanger... probably a gangbanger. If thats profiling.. I'm so sorry but, get over it. IF it's racist... go piss up a rope (not to anyone in particular).
Tumor
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Originally posted by Airhead
Personally I don't think anyone here is in the Klan, but being Irish I would like to state that Tumor is a sellout house Paddy.
?????????????..........a who? heheheheheheh!
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Originally posted by Thrawn
And proper punctuation and grammar. Something else that's new to you, Tumour?
It's TUMOR (problem spelling Thrawn?)
Originally posted by Thrawn
Did you get that tip from Ms. Cleo?
Maybe you missed it the first time: IMHO
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"It's TUMOR (problem spelling Thrawn?) "
Bit me. Your the one that can't spell tumour.
Originally posted by Tumor
Maybe you missed it the first time: IMHO
Yeah, your opinion is that certain events WILL happen, when you have no way of knowing whether or not they will...unless you can predict the future 100% accurately.
You may have an opinion on what MAY happen.
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Originally posted by Tumor
I'm not Airhead. If I see a white guy walking towards me at night, dirty, wearing a bandana and covered with Tattoo's... I'd be allot more guardiant than if it were a black man in a suit. IMHO that analogy is all about how the "guy walking towards me" presents himself. Looks like a gangbanger, walks like a gangbanger, talks like a gangbanger... probably a gangbanger. If thats profiling.. I'm so sorry but, get over it. IF it's racist... go piss up a rope (not to anyone in particular).
Tumor
LOL I didn't state the obvious- I should have said "all things being equal," my point being that African Americans are as succeptable to crime than whites are and just as concerned over crime- in fact most African Americans are middle class working folks who want the same things white middle class working folks want- a decent education for their kids, good jobs and less crime.
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"If I see a white guy walking towards me at night, dirty, wearing a bandana and covered with Tattoo's... I'd be allot more guardiant than if it were a black man in a suit. "
I'd be more likely to say, "Hi easymo, can I see your bike?".
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Pay reparations, but do it right.
First, you'd need to be certain that the black person in question is a direct descendant of slvaes. This is quite doable.
Then you have to work out how many hours his or her ancesotrs worked as a slave. You'd have to evaluate their efficiency as well.
Then you'd have to deduct money for any crimes his or her ancesotrs might have done - reparations work both ways.
Then you'd have to locate any descendants of white people who earned a buck on slaves. naturally, this would have to be fully documented.
You'd also have to remove anyone from the list who hasn't directly made any money, regardless of race. Very very easy to figure out.
Then you'd have to evaluate what the quality of life (materially and mentally) would have been for the descendants of slaves had they not been slaves, and modify the sum they'd receive accordingly. Of course, you'd also be forced to deduct all the money that has flown from the US government and lined the pockets of descendants of slaves.
Then you'd have to find a value for the lives of those lost (well, in name anyway) in the war against slavery, and deduct this as well.
Then you'd have to do the same for Indians. Before that, however, you'd have to do all this over again with the African tribes who stood for a good part of actually catching and selling people.
And why stop there? Slave trade went on for many hundreds of years before this. If we start this, we finish it.
Yes, I see that this has the potential to do lots more good than evil.l I therefore support it wholeheartedly, but only because the calculations are so simple.
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........and all the forms must be completed in the applicant's own handwriting, in triplicate?
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Oh you forgot the Hebrews which were enslaved for 2000 years by the Egyptians. Damn that's a toejamload of money. Let's bankrupt the whole world because people want the easy road.
I'm a MacGregor, my clan in Scotland were hunted down for 170 years by the English because of the "MacGregor" name. I could sue too? No wait, I don't WANT a handout.
Chris Rock tells it like it is. THAT is a comedian.
Karaya2
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Aren't MacGregors boarder Scots?
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StSanta preposterously wrote:
"Then you have to work out how many hours his or her ancesotrs worked as a slave. You'd have to evaluate their efficiency as well."
Are you even remotely implying that slavery was... employment? Even as a joke?
I can't get past that part of your post, because if you include "how many hours [the slaves] worked" as a premise, then your muddled thought process can't possibly get any clearer, cleaner, or sane.
What's your freedom worth?
And to everyone who wants to sue other governments for the enslavement of their ancestors... well? GO BACK to bloody England or Sweden or Poland and sue those governments! Why are you holding the United States government responsible for the systems of other countries? How is your argument relevant?
But let's take you seriously for a moment, for the sake of argument. How has slavery in those other countries in those other centuries continued to disenfranchise the Danes, the Swedes, the Poles, the whatevers? Have you been to Denmark or Sweden? Can you, at a glance, differentiate between a Dane and a Swede? I've been, and I can't. How about a Pole from a German?Understand?
As I pointed out, institutionalized discrimination lingered in this country until the 1960's. Affirmative Action sought to level the playing field, to make it fair for black Americans to compete in white corporate America, to live in suburban neighborhoods, to get a better education. You know, to be treated as Americans as opposed to black Americans. Welfare programs benefit more white Americans than black Americans. So someone explain to me this magnanimous windfall that "they" enjoy.
Tumor, I don't think reparations will be made for slavery, and not because of a potential outbreak of overt racism. Reparations won't work, because how can that kind of crime be recompensed? What formula will be used? And, of course, the people and their descendants who benefited the most from slavery aren't likely to hand over their fortunes. And people with fortunes have more political power. You know, I'm trying, and I can't simplify this issue to "pay only those who were directly enslaved." That argument is what's ridiculous about this conversation. There are far-reaching consequences, and that's what's being grappled with today.
By the way, Airhead, I understood your example with "all things being equal" being implied and didn't think I had to clarify it, either.
Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.
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Yeah Ethernaut, I agree...blacks have mostly been ignored in their contributions to society, the greatest of which is the idea of soul and God. Negros have contributed greatly to our culture and heritage. They are great patriots. I'm glad they're appreciated in the South, but not as slaves...as brothers.
You see, we're not as backward as you think we are. The average black probably feels this way. We've had a long time to sort this out...and we know.:)
Les
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Of the last 800 years or so, Denmark and Sweden has been at war for 142.
I wish to have reparations for the suffering my ancestors felt at the hand of the Swedes.
However, I grew up in Sweden. So i wish reparations for the cruel rule Denmark imposed on Sweden from time to time.
I need the money so I can pay reparations to the French and Britons for the Viking raids around 800-900 BC.
Shut the hell up before we invade ur arses :D
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Are you even remotely implying that slavery was... employment? Even as a joke?
No I am not. You're inferring this.
But figuring out how to compensate and how much is a difficult task. Unless you suggest that there should be one amount for being a slave, of course, and this would be unfair against slaves who had it rougher than others. So payment must be in proportion to their efficiency, obedience and suffering.
I mean, we're saying that people profited from having slaves. I suggest we link how much reparations they'll receive to how much profit their owners made on them.
Which of course would mean we'd have to evaluate each slave individually.
I can't get past that part of your post, because if you include "how many hours [the slaves] worked" as a premise, then your muddled thought process can't possibly get any clearer, cleaner, or sane.
I'm not known to be delicate with my words - I state it exactly as I see it. I could have sugar coated it, but I am an inherently pragmatic man. And (I think) a fair one - and fairness is when you get paid individually based on your effort. Sure, there should be some kind of base sum in place for the enslavement alone. It could even be substantial. But we must go beyond that.
If you find it muddled, let me know and I'll clarify. I won't even be insulted by this baited attempt at an ad hominem attack.
What's your freedom worth?
Your life and the lives of everyone you love, and then some.
If I had to choose between you and me, I'd choose myself. I would, however, work towards your freedom.
But what you're inferring is that no price can be put on the suffering having ones freedom removed causes. I agree with this - so why even try? Or what I mean is, why should person Z be paid because person A was enslaved? And by whom? Are we talking Biblical style justice here - i.e that the sins of the grand grand grand grand mother/father is carried forth to the sons and daughters for eternity? (And thanks Adam and Eve for that deal, you bastards).
Even having said that, I stand by my initial statement - one should get paid according to ability, work load and other costs (in this case torture and slavery). Slavery alone is fine, but is just a part of the overall sum.
And to everyone who wants to sue other governments for the enslavement of their ancestors... well? GO BACK to bloody England or Sweden or Poland and sue those governments! Why are you holding the United States government responsible for the systems of other countries? How is your argument relevant?
Our arguments are relevant because it is exactly the same - the only difference is that slavery happened more recently. How can you argue that after some arbitrarily chosen time, reparation claims are void and ridiculous and still keep your credibility? That the time period in question favours your argument but not the opponents is not just a mere coincidence.
And why don't we sue? Because here the courts aren't populated by idiotic ambitious morons elected by idiots. They'll see it as what it is - a disgraceful attempt to earn a buck on the suffering of ancestors we have no emotional connection to, except "they were ancestors of mine". They should be ashamed of themselves, trying to make money on the blood of their ancestors.
But let's take you seriously for a moment, for the sake of argument. How has slavery in those other countries in those other centuries continued to disenfranchise the Danes, the Swedes, the Poles, the whatevers? Have you been to Denmark or Sweden? Can you, at a glance, differentiate between a Dane and a Swede? I've been, and I can't. How about a Pole from a German?Understand?
The Swedes are always drunk. And why do you need to visualy be able to differentiate? We can do it with language, with culture, with choice of food and music. We can use their Golly-geened passports. Outsiders may not believe it, but the cultural differences between the Scandinavian countries are quite visible. I know. I was born in Denmark, moved to Sweden and grew up there and has now moved back to Denmark. I know the sentiments on both sides and more importantly. I *understand* them.
Ethernaut, I agree completely and fully with your statement about racism in the US. I also feel that in general, being black is a disadvantage, although one that is smaller now than in the 50s (at which time there was a system of apartheit in the US).
I disagree with you regarding whether reparations are appropriate for the following reasons:
1) African Americans have higher living standards than their relatives in Africa. However tough it as been for their ancestors, it has been good for them. Same for the original European immigrants - many went through hell, but their offspring are better off.
2) It'd be hard to judge how much should be paid in reparations. There are several reasons for this. One is that it is impossible to put a price on freedom. Another one is that even if one puts an arbitrarily chosen value on freedom, the reparations would still have to be adjusted according to how much profit was made from each individual slave. After all, the argument is that profit was made on the suffering of slaves (and this is an argument I do not dispute)
3) Giving reparations to individuals who have ancestors several hundred years back who have suffered is a backwards approach. Giving money to be used on a specific race is better, but that in of it self is a form of inequality. We now have racial equality (in theory) and introducing an element of inequality will be a step backwards. Instead, it should go to an overall fund *available for all AMERICANS* so that impoverished people get a shot at an education. Why think in races instead of in PEOPLE? This in of itself is part of a racist mindset dating back to slavery itself. Let the government and idndustries pay, but let the money do good for AMERICANS, regardless of colour or religion (or lack thereof).
4) If reparations are made, the US government is entitled to substract money that has specifically been spent on trying to improve the living conditions of African Americans. I'm not talking money that's available to all Ameridcans (such as medicare, social security), but specific things. Affirmative action would also have to be somehow undone, since the US government after paying reparations owe the black community nothing.
5) All African Americans will be given a one way plane ticket to their home country, to be used if they wish.
6) I think it is unethical to try to make a buck on someone elses suffering and hiding it with big words such as "slavery" and "ancestory". It's about money more than it's about justice, because God knows things cannot be undone. The unjustifiable will not be justifiable by a payment. It will be by reconciliation, and if money is part of it some 200 years after, I sincerely question what kind of reconciliation we're talking about.
7) This is a big one: WHO should pay? The government? The government would finance it throught taxes. Taxes hit everyone. Blacks could be exempt and they wouldn't be hit. However, why would you punish an Irish immigrant arriving in 1911 for what someone else did? Would you do it purely because of his skin colour? That, my friend, would be racist. So you'd have to let the government find descendants of people who benefitted on slavery and then tax them more. Then again, is it fair to tax a hard working father of five who barely manages toget enough cash for food and rent because his ancestor, who he is blissfully ignorant of, was an utter bastard? This is just the tip of the iceberg regarding payment.
I conclude that reparations cause more injustice that it settles. It is a good thing, a good thought, but practically, it cannot be carried out in a fair manner.
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I'm SO CONFUSED! :(
Dad says I'm part Indian. On top of that news, I just learned that Indians sometimes married Blacks! That means that I could be part...B...Bl...Bla...
Oh horrors! This means I gotta hate MYSELF! I'll have to sell my sheet!
AAAGGGGHHHHH!
Shuckins :(
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Airhead and/or SaburoS why don't you all tell everyone exactly what makes either of you two so NON-RACIST...
You all seem to get a kick out of calling everyone else a racist and have many examples and smart bellybutton remarks calling others racist why not tell us some of the things and give examples from your daily lives showing how you guys are so NON-RACIST.
Cmon, lets see that! :)
I am soooo hurt that I was left out of this post!
I'm gonna take my ball and go play elsewhere!
:p
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Affirmative action is a racist income redistribution program. The government takes jobs and other benefits away from deserving whites and gives them to undeserving non-whites.
Welfare and Social Security and the various medical handout programs also constitute an income redistribution that benefits non-whites. I have seen statistics (although I don't have them handy, sorry) which show that blacks are overrepresented in these programs, that a black is much more likely than a white to recieve government assistance. Put another way, the average black recieves more government assistance (monetary) than the average white. Likewise, the average white pays more taxes into this system than the average black. Therefore, regardless of intent, the system is effectively a racist income redistribution program which benefits blacks and hurts whites.
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While we're asking for reperations...
I demand reperations from those who concieved me on this toejamty planet!
Funny, a bunch of cracka bellybutton crackas arguing over who is more racist...
You all are racist bigots, and Animal hates you for that! Damn crackas!
-SW
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Originally posted by funkedup
Welfare and Social Security and the various medical handout programs also constitute an income redistribution that benefits non-whites. I have seen statistics (although I don't have them handy, sorry) which show that blacks are overrepresented in these programs, that a black is much more likely than a white to recieve government assistance. Put another way, the average black recieves more government assistance (monetary) than the average white. Likewise, the average white pays more taxes into this system than the average black. Therefore, regardless of intent, the system is effectively a racist income redistribution program which benefits blacks and hurts whites.
So the qualifier for welfare programs is skin color??? Gee, and all this time I thought it was based upon income level.
Maybe the reason African Americans are more likely to require AFDC than whites is because more African Americans are below the poverty level, proportinately wise. However, whites are the single largest group collecting welfare in this Country, not blacks.
Not to confuse reperations with welfare benefits, especially in light of the past 200 posts where not one person has thought reperations are workable, but do you think we should abolish the welfare system entirely or just put quotas on the amount of African Americans, Mexican Americans or Asian Americans we allow to draw welfare? Please Funked, offer solutions instead of rants bud.;)
StSanta, the argument African Americans are better off here than in Africa, and therefore shouldn't squeak if they are treated inequitably, is laughable. I'm Irish, make a lot more money than the average person living in Ireland, so I shouldn't squeak if I feel like I'm being treated unfairly?
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So the qualifier for welfare programs is skin color??? Gee, and all this time I thought it was based upon income level.
Note that I said EFFECTIVELY. The qualifier is not race, it's income. But it just so happens that this qualifier results in blacks recieving disproportionately more aid than whites.
However, whites are the single largest group collecting welfare in this Country, not blacks.
I won't deny that. Simply because there are about 6 times as many whites as blacks. But the average black gets a lot more aid than the average white. And the average white pays more money into the system. So on the whole there is a redistribution of income from whites to blacks.
Of course this is based on a memory of statistics that I saw a couple of years ago. I guess I need to dig up the stats to make sure my memory doesn't suck. If I'm wrong about it I'll happily eat my words.
do you think we should abolish the welfare system entirely or just put quotas on the amount of African Americans, Mexican Americans or Asian Americans we allow to draw welfare?
No, I think welfare and all the other handouts should be based on economic needs of the individuals and families involved. But to deny that this "unbiased" method can result in a racial imbalance is foolish.
Please Funked, offer solutions instead of rants bud.;)
You're going to have to pay me more. And I'm just responding to ethernaut anyways. Guess I shoulda said that.
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Originally posted by lazs2
saburo... yu add nothing... we don't even know where you stand on the matter. You are cowardly in attacking those who lashed out and using that to foster a holier than thou attitude. You come off like a knee jerk liberal. Why don't you just say who it is that yu think is racist? Why don't you just tell us how you stand on reparations?
Why did I single out animal? Well... gee... He is the only person that apears to be a black guy in the thread. He would likely have something to gain by reparations. The rest of us (so far as I know) would have something to lose so.... right or not.. we have self interest involved.
st santa... you are a racist with your swede vs ....oh.. wait a minute.. nevermind.
lazs
lazs2,
Let's clarify what racism is exactly. I'll give you my views on it and maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from. I don't see racism as including only those of the KKK, American Nazi Party, or any other white superiority group. Of course those groups represent racism from an extreme, fanatical, and radical viewpoint. I include in my racism and racist arguements anyone posting in a manner that they use "they", "them", "N****rs" and/or "N word" when describing Black Americans and that they should "go back to where they came from", or "they should sue Africa", etc arguements.
If we're only talking about racists and racism in the extreme, fanatical "kill those that are different than me" definition, then I'll say that I doubt seriously anyone here to be that kind of racist.
However, if we're talking about those that might elect a politician that has a bearing on the laws of our towns, cities, states, and country that would pass laws that would try to keep the economic playing field uneven so that those enjoying the benefits of priviledge (as ethernaut so eloquently described), then I would claim those that supported those laws could be racist.
Unfortunetely, affirmative action laws and policies have been necessary. The proof is in how we as a nation are getting closer than ever of having that economic even playing field. We still have a ways to go but we'd have much farther to go if we didn't have affirmative action.
I have stated around 4-6 times (lost count) in this thread that I am against Reparation payments. It won't work. It has way to many variables to be enacted fairly. I would fear a backlash of discrimination of those in power positions (jobs, housing) as "washing their hands clean" and turning down those unfairly because "We're even now, and the slate is clean. I don't have to grant you a promotion, give you a homeowners loan, hire you, etc."
I feel that African Americans do have a legitimate complaint of discrimination. I'll ask you that are white this:
When is the last time you went into a white run store and the employees thought you would steal something?
You were looked over because you might 'do' something?
You didn't get that housing you wanted to rent/buy?
You didn't get that job you were seeking?
You didn't get that promotion you were seeking?
You were stopped by the police to be questioned?
Other people cross the street to avoid crossing your path?
Now I'll ask you this:
If you were black, do you think the above happens more?
Talking reality here.
if you were a black American, can you see the frustration you would feel just because of your skin pigmentation being dark?
24/7?
I'll try to continue tonight as I have to go to work.
Regards
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SaburoS: You were looked over because you might 'do' something?
You were stopped by the police to be questioned?
Other people cross the street to avoid crossing your path?
...frustration you would feel just because of your skin pigmentation being dark?
"Just" because of skin pigmentation? How about the fact that blacks much more likely than whites to commit crimes and are about 200 times more likely than whites to commit violent interracial crimes?
You didn't get that housing you wanted to rent/buy?
You didn't get that job you were seeking?
You didn't get that promotion you were seeking?
All the examples you cited are of a supposedly racist person hurting his economic situation and benefitting his non-racist (black) competitor.
If you hire less-capable white instead of more-capable black, drive away black customers, etc. you basically create much more favorable environment (less competition, cheaper more capable workforce) to non-racist, especially black businesses. Why don't those prosper?
Your implications are that majority of blacks cannot succeed by themsleves but only by whites' sufferance.
Unfortunately those are absolutely correct. Blacks are less capable than whites and more prone to multitude of illnesses than whites. No amount of affirmative action would correct that.
Of course destruction of their family values and work ethics by the handouts only made situation worse.
miko
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As Ice Cube once said, "It's On"
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mikos post is good for another 100 replies
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StSanta, the argument African Americans are better off here than in Africa, and therefore shouldn't squeak if they are treated inequitably, is laughable. I'm Irish, make a lot more money than the average person living in Ireland, so I shouldn't squeak if I feel like I'm being treated unfairly?
Wel if your current treatment was the issue, we'd discuss that.
However, it's not your current treatment that's up to debate. Nor is the current treatment of blacks, in general.
What we're taking about is paying money to the descendants of slaves. how they're currently treated is unrelated. Whether they're ebing subjected to a racist society is not what we're discussing.
We're discussing whether they should have reparations or not. And part of that debate is their current status vs where they WOULD have been had *their ancestors* (i.e not them) not been taken slaves.
Address this, and the other points. Building up straw man arguments is laughable. Ignoring other points is dishonest.
Hey, you started the mudslinging with the laughable comment. I'd contend that I mudsling with the best of them.
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TODAY, there are increasing numbers of black professionals and scholars advocating reparations for slavery. New York Times staff writer Tamar Lewin, in her June 3 article "Calls for Slavery Reparations Getting Louder," says that a team of black lawyers have announced that they plan to sue the federal government and companies that have profited from slavery. . Slavery was an abomination. There's no argument, based on morality, that can justify slavery and its attendant evils. Indeed, were it possible, slave traders and slave owners should be forced to make reparations to those whom they enslaved. A similar case cannot be made for reparation payments to slave descendants.
Adjoa Aiyetoro, a legal consultant to the National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America, says, "We're not raising claims that you should pay us because you did something to us 150 years ago. We are saying that we are injured today by the vestiges of slavery, which took away income and property that was rightfully ours." This vestige-of-slavery argument, as an explanation for the pathology seen in some black neighborhoods, is simply nonsense when you think about it.
Illegitimacy among blacks today is 70 percent. Only 41 percent of black males 15 years and older are married, and only 36 percent of black children live in two-parent families. These and other indicators of family instability and its accompanying socioeconomic factors such as high crime, welfare dependency and poor educational achievement is claimed to be the legacy and vestiges of slavery, for which black Americans are due reparations. Let's look at it.
In 1940, illegitimacy among blacks was 19 percent. From 1890 to 1940, blacks had a marriage rate slightly higher than whites. As of 1950, 64 percent black males 15 years and older were married, compared to today's 41 percent.
In Philadelphia, in 1880, two-parent family structure was: black (75.2 percent), Irish (82.2 percent), German (84.5 percent) and native white Americans (73.1 percent). In other large cities such as Detroit, New York and Cleveland, we find roughly the same numbers.
According to one study of black families (Herbert G. Gutman, "The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom, 1750-1925"), "Five out of six children under the age of 6 lived with both parents."
That study also found that, in Harlem between 1905 and 1925, only 3 percent of all families were headed by a woman under 30 and 85 percent of black children lived in two-parent families.
The question raised by these historical facts is: If what we see today in many black neighborhoods, as claimed by reparation advocates, are the vestiges and legacies of slavery, how come that social pathology wasn't much worse when blacks were just two or three generations out of slavery? Might it be that slavery's legacy and vestiges have a way, like diabetes, of skipping generations? In other words, for example, that devastating 70 percent rate of black illegitimacy simply skipped six generations -- it's a delayed effect of slavery.
I doubt whether the reparations gang could develop a coherent theory of the generation-skipping effects of slavery. Vestiges and legacy of slavery arguments are simply covers for another hustle similar to the $6 trillion dollar War on Poverty hustle.
Interestingly enough, reparations advocates are not demanding that white people be taxed in order to send checks out to individual black people. What they're demanding is for money to be put into a reparations fund from which they decide who receives how much for what purpose. For me, that has just as much appeal as the Rev. Leroy's call for people to send their money to him and he'll send it to God.
Further more who would pay? The government dosen't generate and money it only redistributes the money it takes from the citizenery in the form of taxes. This includes black tax paying citizens. So would blacks pay blacks. If not then all you are asking is for whites to give a hand out to blacks. I now ask who would receive? Would the likes of Tiger Woods, Michale Jordon, Barry Bonds, etc receive a check if not (because they have obviously not suffered from slavery) then you are creating another wellfair program for the poor.
Then there is the cost of the civil war and the lives lost. Considering that blacks were not alowed to fight (expc. massachetts 54th at end of the war) then the lost wages do to the lost wage earnes (white male causualties) should be looked at as well considering white males earned more the black males did in 1800's then the lost wages would at the very lest off set.
Then there is the fact the slavery was not illegal at the time it was used. So are we looking to pay for a crime that did not exist.
And then there is the question about the "cost " of slavery. It is said that the US beneffited from slavery. This is not true, when we look at the wealth of the states that used slave labor vs those to the north that didn't. It is clear that the Northern states had a greater weath, with free blacks who were paid for their labor.
Then we have to consider the immigration into the US after 1865. As stated by many here their family members came here much later, (me 1930's) so would I be required to pay? Just because I'm white. And the recipients who are not AFRICAN (true slaves) but who came here from the carabian after 1865 and other "black" skined countries. Do they receive a check as well just becuase the are black?
Reperations is by defenition Racisim. It is the explotations of one race to benefit and other.
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How would reparations be financed? Would the government create a special fund and funnel tax money into it? If so, then ALL Americans would be penalized for the effects of slavery. That includes Japanese-Americans, Chinese-Americans, and all other groups of non-white Americans. Or would there be a special tax for White-Americans only? In that case, all whites would be penalized, regardless of whether or not their ancestors owned slaves and regardless of whether they, as individuals, have ever deliberately discriminated against a Black-American.
Regards, Shuckins
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saburo.. it may be easier to "blend in" as a white person. So What? Your apearance has a lot to do with things. I tend to make snap judgements and threat assesments on people I see on the street... If you look like a banger or a biker or criminal... people will treat you as such. Sorry... no time to bother with you.. If you jive talk your way through a job interview with me with your pants around your knees... I will smile and scratch you off the list. In a crowd...I will talk to a clean black person with a smile before I will talk to the greasy white guy with the scowl.
No mystery. I still am resentful of affirmative action and tend to place less importance (respect less) a black orr woman in a position of power because of the very real chance that it was undeserved. These days, I will ask for the white guy cause if he survived he had to be good... The black or the woman? who knows? Don't care either way but don't have time to sort it all out.
reparations would be another program that hurts race relations for me personally... and after all.... that is the only person I can speak for.
lazs
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Skimming this last bunch of posts, I'm eager to respond but must finish work and other important me-related tasks before playing. Until then, here is an article from The Onion that I'm sure y'all will find entertaining for different reasons.
The Onion
15-21 August 2002
COMMUNITY VOICES
By Wallace Rickard
Privileged White Male
Stereotypes Are A Real Time-Saver
I’m a busy guy. And, while I’d love to, I don’t have the time to get to know every person I encounter in the course of my daily life. So thank goodness I have a handy little device at my disposal that helps me know how to deal with just about anyone I come across: stereotypes. Yes, stereotypes are a real time-saver!
You have no idea how much this streamlines my day. For example, before I started using stereotypes, if I were trying to choose a podiatrist to treat my foot pain, I would be clueless. I would’ve tried tons of podiatrists of all different races before finding a really good one. But, armed with the stereotype that Asians are all really smart and studious, all I have to do is scan the yellow pages for podiatrists under the name “Chang”!
Stereotypes also work when I’m trying to decide on a place for lunch. I steer clear of any place that employs Arabs—not because Arabs are all terrorists, but because they tend to be filthy and have poor hygiene. By sticking to Caucasian-run establishments, I can avoid wasting weeks lying in bed with a debilitating food-borne illness. If I’m in a rush and have to eat fast, I’ll definitely avoid going to a place run by Jamaicans. They are sooo slow. Ever been to Jamaica? It takes, like, two hours to order a Coke down there.
Gender and age stereotypes can be just as useful as the racial ones. Let’s say you need to ask directions. I’d never ask a woman, because her answer could be unreliable. With a woman, you can never tell if “Aunt Flow” is in town, so she could be going through a mood swing and send you to Timbuktu. And women over 50 are completely out of the question because of their hot flashes. I won’t even ask a man over 60, because you never know when the ravages of Alzheimer’s could be setting in. That’s why the only people I trust to get me where I need to go are men under 60. White men, that is.
Stereotypes aren’t just a trick for leisure time. You can really speed through your work day with them, too. Right now, the firm I manage is looking to hire an accountant. Without stereotypes, I’d have to read every resume and interview dozens of candidates. Make no mistake, there’s still a lot of culling involved, because resumes rarely include photographs. But the first thing I do when a big stack of resumes shows up is throw out the Hispanic last names. This saves me hours right off the top.
After that, I make an “A-List” pile out of the Jewish-sounding names. According to the old stereotype, Jews are great with money, so those are the people I’m primarily interesting in interviewing. In the interest of fairness, though, I’d like to interview a few Christians, too. Only problem is, some Christians are black, and who ever heard of a black accountant? I want to screen out the blacks, but unfortunately, not every black person is names Tyrone or Laquisha, so I sometimes wind up accidentally calling one in for an interview.
To fix this problem, I’ve turned to—what else?—stereotypes. I’ve come up with this plan where I phone everyone in the Christian pile and ask whether they’d be interested in participating in a menthol-cigarette-and-malt-liquor taste-test (free, naturally). Boo-yah! An hour of phone calls later, and I’ve got my two master lists, Jews and white Christians. My competitors can flush all their free time down the crapper searching hither and yon for the actual best-qualified applicant, but Fast-Track Wally’s got Yankees tickets!
Yes, even a Polack can see that stereotypes are the busy man’s best friend!
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Saburos-
Guess I'll have to go into your "racist" column, as I cannot hope to avoid using common pronouns such as "they" and "them" when discussing groups of which I am not a member. Further, I have no interest in even trying.
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Isn't there a Statute of Limitations around here somewhere? Or can I sue Staffo becuase Normans oppressed my Anglo-Saxon ancestors?
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Originally posted by StSanta
What we're taking about is paying money to the descendants of slaves. how they're currently treated is unrelated. Whether they're ebing subjected to a racist society is not what we're discussing.
We're discussing whether they should have reparations or not. And part of that debate is their current status vs where they WOULD have been had *their ancestors* (i.e not them) not been taken slaves.
Address this, and the other points. Building up straw man arguments is laughable. Ignoring other points is dishonest.
Hey, you started the mudslinging with the laughable comment. I'd contend that I mudsling with the best of them. [/B]
StSanta, it WAS laughable tho in an Archie Bunker sort of way. Really, I have no intention of "mudslinging" and if you feel the past treatment of African Americans has no bearing on the reperations issue then I'll play by your rules and ignore past treatment- however, I wonder if reperations would be an issue if we'd had racial equality for the last hundred years or so.
All I can address then is 1) Are African Americans better off today than thier African counterparts and 2) if I'm in favor of reperations or not. Fair enough.
The statement that African Americans are better off than thier African counterparts is debatable given the 500 years of European colonization of Africa, of which the slave trade was a large part. I wonder how many of Africa's problems are a result of colonization and white rule? When Europe pulled out of Africa it created a power vacuum filled by disease, starvation and tinhorn dictatorships. If you murder my family and only wound me then yeah, I guess by your logic I'm better off than I could be. Perhaps a better question is would Africans be better off today without the yoke of European colonizalition they bore for 500 years.
Am I in favor of reporations? No, I'm not- in fact nobody who's posted on the subject has stated they're in favor of reporations. However, in the true spirit of BB debates many posters are continuing on as if some of us actually ARE in favor of reperations. I will say, however, that the more I read here the more I'm rethinking my position on this issue.
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Does anyone know which group of people protested the most when the slave trade was outlawed?
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I think it was the Croatians.
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I'm in favour of reperations.
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Spelling Nazi!
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Originally posted by funkedup
Spelling Nazi!
Your just saying that because I'm not black.
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:D Funked...
But seriusly can you guess which group of peoole were most pissed off when slavery was outlawed by the Europeans?
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Airhead, while I'd hate to say so, what white Europeans did in Africa is also unrelated :). That's what the Europeans did, not the Americans, and if anything, that'd be an issue about whether and how much Europe should have to pay Africa in reparations :)
We're dealing with a specific case here: would the blacks in the US be better off in Africa, given the development and history of the place as we know it? I mean, we can't do what-if scenario and base reparations on it.
And we really can't do "would black be.." in a strict sense. We'd have to use statistics and averages.
I contend that 90% of US african americans have a higher disposable income, better living standards etc etc than the average black african.
I'd have to dig through some numbers to back it up though. :)
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Originally posted by Thrawn
"It's TUMOR (problem spelling Thrawn?) "
Bit me. Your the one that can't spell tumour.
It's BITE not BIT and YOU'RE not YOUR and... :rolleyes: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=Tumor
Originally posted by Thrawn
Yeah, your opinion is that certain events WILL happen, when you have no way of knowing whether or not they will...unless you can predict the future 100% accurately.
:rolleyes: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=opinion
Might I suggest dear Thrawn, that attempting to dictate another persons opinion is a rather futile exercise in bad judgment.
:eek: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=futile<< just in case you need a little help.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Affirmative action is a racist income redistribution program. The government takes jobs and other benefits away from deserving whites and gives them to undeserving non-whites.
Welfare and Social Security and the various medical handout programs also constitute an income redistribution that benefits non-whites. I have seen statistics (although I don't have them handy, sorry) which show that blacks are overrepresented in these programs, that a black is much more likely than a white to recieve government assistance. Put another way, the average black recieves more government assistance (monetary) than the average white. Likewise, the average white pays more taxes into this system than the average black. Therefore, regardless of intent, the system is effectively a racist income redistribution program which benefits blacks and hurts whites.
OMG FUNKED!!.. you do realize your going straight to hell for even thinking about thinking like that! :D
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It's the same rationale by which the drug war and the death penalty are declared to be racist. Results matter more than intent.
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After reparations payments begin... I formally declare my intent to lobby for a program in which any direct decendant of a soldier who fought in the Civil War, for the NORTH send a bill to the reparations committee... a big one.
Tumor
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Originally posted by Tumor
After reparations payments begin... I formally declare my intent to lobby for a program in which any direct decendant of a soldier who fought in the Civil War, for the NORTH send a bill to the reparations committee... a big one.
Tumor
What about the people who were never born because their ancestors died to free the slaves? Let's calculate the number of potential offspring and their projected earnings and sue for that. We can put it in a trust fund for white folks.
Also the present value of all expenditures related to the conduct of the Civil War. Anybody whose ancestors were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation will have to pay. I'm sure the people building such databases for the reparations movement will lend us their data.
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Guys, I think that we certainly do owe reparations for the years of slavery. SO, every man, and woman that can prove they were personally held a slave in the United States, pre-Emancipation Proclomation / Civil War should be due, say $10,000,000 each, from the states that allowed, encoraged, or participated in trafficing of slaves.
-Abunabi
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Abunabi has it. That's very fair - if something wrong has been done to YOU by the state, you should get cash.
Wonder how many old ex-slaves will collect this most generous of offers?
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miko - You are an idiot.
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Originally posted by lazs2
saburo... yu add nothing... we don't even know where you stand on the matter. You are cowardly in attacking those who lashed out and using that to foster a holier than thou attitude. You come off like a knee jerk liberal. Why don't you just say who it is that yu think is racist? Why don't you just tell us how you stand on reparations?
Why did I single out animal? Well... gee... He is the only person that apears to be a black guy in the thread. He would likely have something to gain by reparations. The rest of us (so far as I know) would have something to lose so.... right or not.. we have self interest involved.
st santa... you are a racist with your swede vs ....oh.. wait a minute.. nevermind.
lazs
...continued from my prebious post.
lazs2,
When I see postings that seem racist/prejudiced in nature, I make the presumption that the person posting believes in what he/she posts. That person has led me to believe that they are racist/prejudiced.
Does that mean that I believe that person belong to the KKK or anyother 'supremacy' organization?
No.
Does it mean that because one has a racist/prejudiced viewpoint, that that also means that they overtly wish to do harm to others?
No.
Does it mean that quite possibly a racist/prejudiced person could oppose policies that would that might try to 'level' the economic playing field?
Yes.
Does it mean that quite possibly a racist/prejudiced person could support policies that could possibly support "exclusion" based on race/religion?
Yes.
Either one is racist/prejudiced or one is not. There is not such a thing as "almost" racist/prejudiced as there is not such a thing as "almost" pregnant.
A "closet" racist is a racist as is a "closet" homosexual is a homosexual (relax, as I am not inferring anyone here as a homosexual, nor would it matter to me what one's sexuality is. But we can save that for another thread.)
True character is who you are when no one is looking. The real you.
If one makes racist/prejudiced/hateful commments then they should not be upset if they get called a racist/prejudiced/hateful person.
Now to answer more directly your questions/comments:
we don't even know where you stand on the matter.
Why do you say "we" in your post? Are you speaking for others that can't speak for themselves? I guess you really mean "I" when you say "we" as somehow that lends credibility to your question.
What "matter" are you talking about?
Reparations? If you actually took the time to read my posts, you would see whether I supported them or not.
If you are talking about how I feel about people using racist, prejudiced, and/or hateful language/arguements to "make" one's viewpoint on the matter of reparations, how much clearer do you wish me to be?
Do you wish me to quote some individual posts for you and label them as racist, prejudiced, and or hateful?
Can you not figure it out on your own? Let me know, I'll be happy to oblige you.
You are cowardly in attacking those who lashed out and using that to foster a holier than thou attitude. You come off like a knee jerk liberal.
Cowardly? How is it exactly? Are you inferring your "bravery" by your posts? Does it really matter?
Please define "knee-jerk liberal" for me. Odd label to use in this discussion, really. Either my arguements are valid or they are not. Suppose you tell me where they are not.
Why don't you just say who it is that yu think is racist? Why don't you just tell us how you stand on reparations?
Do I really need to point out to you specifically which posts were racist in nature?
Which ones were prejudiced in nature?
Which ones were hateful in nature?
Why don't we make it easy for both you and me. Why don't you quote the ones I quoted (just a few that you somehow don't find as possibly racist, prejudiced, and/or hateful) and I'll give you my viewpoint on a more detailed basis.
You're kidding about wanting to really know my views on reparations, right?
I'll repeat it for you as you obviously haven't been really comprehending my posts (or is your attention span just a wee bit short?).
No. Negative. I am against reparations as submitted.
Is it finally clear enough for you?
saburo.. it may be easier to "blend in" as a white person. So What? Your apearance has a lot to do with things. I tend to make snap judgements and threat assesments on people I see on the street... If you look like a banger or a biker or criminal... people will treat you as such. Sorry... no time to bother with you.. If you jive talk your way through a job interview with me with your pants around your knees... I will smile and scratch you off the list. In a crowd...I will talk to a clean black person with a smile before I will talk to the greasy white guy with the scowl.
No mystery. I still am resentful of affirmative action and tend to place less importance (respect less) a black orr woman in a position of power because of the very real chance that it was undeserved. These days, I will ask for the white guy cause if he survived he had to be good... The black or the woman? who knows? Don't care either way but don't have time to sort it all out.
reparations would be another program that hurts race relations for me personally... and after all.... that is the only person I can speak for.
lazs
Racism rears its ugly head again. Sad really.
LOL lazs2, it seems you were the "coward" all along in posting your viewpoint. I understand now. Thank you.
BTW if you really want to continue, please answer my inquiries. Don't be a "coward."
Regards.
PS I already make the assumption that we all speak for ourselves.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Saburos-
Guess I'll have to go into your "racist" column, as I cannot hope to avoid using common pronouns such as "they" and "them" when discussing groups of which I am not a member. Further, I have no interest in even trying.
Please tell me which group you are not a member of? Human being or American?
Understand what drives a "group" to have to sue for reparations. If one group perceives to be discriminated against solely because of race, creed, color, and/or religion, do not be surprised for that group to seek to right a perceived wrong. We are talking fellow Americans, not Africans. Any comparison to Americans living in America as opposed to "their" perceived "homeland" (Africa for example) I would feel to be racist or prejudiced in nature.
Japanese Americans were interned in concentration camps and lost everything they couldn't take with them. They lost their houses, businesses, and employment. Most of all they lost their dignity. What are your views on their getting a favorable ruling in their reparations case? Just curious.
The arguement should be how has one group of Americans been treated as opposed to another group of Americans. In this case, has "White" Americans been using their perceived privilege and "power" over "Black" Americans to keep that group from reaching the same level of prosperity.
For those of you that still don't get my stance on reparations, I am against them as I can't see how it can be implimented fairly in this case.
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Originally posted by ethernaut
To SaburoS: I don't think racism or prejudice or bigotry can be reduced to a self-esteem issue. Jealousy, maybe, but not racism. Racism, and I'm not an expert in psycho-social dynamics, I see as more of an ignorance and superiority-complex issue, the latter of which would dovetail with the idea of the "white standard," a sort of divine-monarchy complex of the white male in America with its inherent social (but not biological) advantages. Who but the most enlightened and noble-minded would want to give that up, or even share it? All men were not created equal, but we should all have equal opportunity. Let character determine the rest.
ethernaut,
Bravo and S! It has been awhile since I have seen such an eloquent, intelligent post.
I however do believe that an individual feeling a need to classify whole other groups (race, religion, color, etc.) as "them" or "they" as being insecure with themselves on a deeper, personal level.
Why is there a need to clasify? Cannot the person judge himself on character alone? Must he/she have a need to feel "superior" because he/she belongs to a different "group"?
Doesn't seem to be a secure person who has a need to judge others as not an equal based on race, creed, color, religion, height, weight, etc.
We are who we are.
Regards.
BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with your post. My input here is just how I feel about the insecurity issue only.
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Funked,
Using "Nword" to describe "cupcake" is very laughable indeed. Somehow using a very derogatory, racial comment is somehow more politically correct by stating it as "Nword" (or N****rs as someone else posted).
Quit being a g*d-d****d, cowardly, racist Pword.
Don't like labels?
Then don't label fellow Americans as "Nword."
You don't like being labeled do you?
Please, don't even THINK that you're not racist.
Incredible.
**rant off**
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Miko2d - are blacks more likely to be sex tourists exploiting children in Indonesia, or is that a pursuit solely preserved for Australians?
BTW, where's your Bell Curve gone?
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Miko, do you really mean everything you said?
Sometimes its hard to believe there are such ignorant and hateful people in this day and age, but of course, I know there are plenty.
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Originally posted by miko2d
SaburoS: You were looked over because you might 'do' something?
You were stopped by the police to be questioned?
Other people cross the street to avoid crossing your path?
...frustration you would feel just because of your skin pigmentation being dark?
"Just" because of skin pigmentation? How about the fact that blacks much more likely than whites to commit crimes and are about 200 times more likely than whites to commit violent interracial crimes?
You didn't get that housing you wanted to rent/buy?
You didn't get that job you were seeking?
You didn't get that promotion you were seeking?
All the examples you cited are of a supposedly racist person hurting his economic situation and benefitting his non-racist (black) competitor.
If you hire less-capable white instead of more-capable black, drive away black customers, etc. you basically create much more favorable environment (less competition, cheaper more capable workforce) to non-racist, especially black businesses. Why don't those prosper?
Your implications are that majority of blacks cannot succeed by themsleves but only by whites' sufferance.
Unfortunately those are absolutely correct. Blacks are less capable than whites and more prone to multitude of illnesses than whites. No amount of affirmative action would correct that.
Of course destruction of their family values and work ethics by the handouts only made situation worse.
miko
Wow, really revealing yourself here. I feel sorry for you, really.
You can't possibly be racist, no way :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SaburoS
I feel that African Americans do have a legitimate complaint of discrimination. I'll ask you that are white this:
When is the last time you went into a white run store and the employees thought you would steal something?
You were looked over because you might 'do' something?
You didn't get that housing you wanted to rent/buy?
You didn't get that job you were seeking?
You didn't get that promotion you were seeking?
You were stopped by the police to be questioned?
Other people cross the street to avoid crossing your path?
Now I'll ask you this:
If you were black, do you think the above happens more?
Talking reality here.
if you were a black American, can you see the frustration you would feel just because of your skin pigmentation being dark?
24/7?
I'll try to continue tonight as I have to go to work.
Regards
and WHY is the answer "yes - if black" to most of your questions?
do blacks hold ANY responsibility for the answers or is it ALL whitey's fault?
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Originally posted by Eagler
and WHY is the answer "yes - if black" to most of your questions?
do blacks hold ANY responsibility for the answers or is it ALL whitey's fault?
Responsibility to being black?
I thought it would be assumed that we would be talking apples to apples here. How wrong of me.
All else being the same, dress, experience, mannerisms, qualifications, etc. Do you feel that Black Americans have been discriminated more than White Americans because of skin pigmentation only?
Should I be more detailed for you or is it finally clear?
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If you feel the need to make personal attacks to get a point across, I suggest you find another bulletin board to post at.