Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Steve on November 01, 2002, 06:10:17 PM
-
The ram model is roadkill. Once again someone gaming the game has proven it to me. I was about to pass by a spit that had been coming at me for a head on attempt. At the last split second he turns full into my nose so I fly into his belly... I went down in flames and he flew along on his undamaged blissful way... fix the diddlying ram model.. it's roadkill!
-
You should make sure you're a little more angry when you post.
I give this a 2.8
-
He did curse. 3 times. Have to give some credit for that even if there are not excessive exclaimation points.
As a temporary solution Steve, don't run into other planes.
-
There were no exclaimation marks or excessive use of caps, but I was looking for a dryer, more cynical approach. The "in your face cursing" method has nostalga, but it lacks the kind of thought and skill you expect in a modern whine.
I did give extra points for the "the other guy made me run into him" tack. It was well done, if a bit understated.
Still, he's new and there is hope he may yet produce a superior whine with a little age and practice.
-
Aw jeeze..Thought this was a thread about how much the St Louis Rams suck.
-
Originally posted by SirLoin
Aw jeeze..Thought this was a thread about how much the St Louis Rams suck.
The Rams moved to St. Louis?
Geez, either I gotta get out more often or they gotta win a game once in a while for me to notice ;)
-
No CAPSLOCK ,no !!!! and no catchy descriptive phrase associated with the spitfire.
A rookie whine at best.
But, his heart was in it and he did try to make it sound like it was all the other guy's fault that he didn't break off.
3.1
AKDejaVu
-
Do a search this bbs on how colisions work. I was in the main where you were calling the guy that killed you all sorts of names on channel 1.
He told you on his fe he shot you. On you fe you may have seen the collision so you died. On his fe he didnt collide he shot you so you died.
It has to work that way or else you would come to the bbs complaining about how you suddenly exploded when you flew near an enemy. You would post a film and scream look I was no where near him.
If you die from a collision its because of what you saw on your front end. So you get the damage and you die. Like in your incident tonight the other guy does not see a colision on his front end (due to net lag) so he lives.
Now you know you would complain if the colision model worked where if other the guy saw the colision and then both of you die. Even though on your front end you clearly did not hit him.
Collisions are like killshooter. The person who dies is the one at fault. Granted accidents happen but for the most part this is true.
-
I agree this whine lacked.. any kind of real expertise.. it was an impromptu kinda whine.. heartfelt.. off the cuff. I'll try to do better next time.. thank you for the pointers.
-
Originally posted by Steve
I agree this whine lacked.. any kind of real expertise.. it was an impromptu kinda whine.. heartfelt.. off the cuff. I'll try to do better next time.. thank you for the pointers.
Remember to finish off the whine with, "PERK THE LA7!", to score higher points.
BTW- I also think the collision model is a little FUBAR. It seems to favor those with a slower connection and some do use it to their advantage.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Wotan
Do a search this bbs on how colisions work. I was in the main where you were calling the guy that killed you all sorts of names on channel 1.
He told you on his fe he shot you. On you fe you may have seen the collision so you died. On his fe he didnt collide he shot you so you died.
It has to work that way or else you would come to the bbs complaining about how you suddenly exploded when you flew near an enemy. You would post a film and scream look I was no where near him.
If you die from a collision its because of what you saw on your front end. So you get the damage and you die. Like in your incident tonight the other guy does not see a colision on his front end (due to net lag) so he lives.
Now you know you would complain if the colision model worked where if other the guy saw the colision and then both of you die. Even though on your front end you clearly did not hit him.
Collisions are like killshooter. The person who dies is the one at fault. Granted accidents happen but for the most part this is true.
wrong again. collision model is somewhat broke as it is currently.
i have passed enemy planes and visually my FE we miss yet i take collision damage and die(said i crashed , not shot down).
i have passed enemy planes and taken collision damage on opposite side from the pass(that i visually saw we miss). something is off in the collision model.
if net lag is soooooo bad that HT has to double standard program for it. then how the hell do we shoot the enemy? if the plane isnt really where we see it when we collide, then how do we give it damage when we shoot the same said plane where we SEE it on our FE? after all it isnt really there if we try to ram it, how does our bulllets hit it and give it damage?
i mean its either got to be where we see it or not for all situations not just when HT wants to be.
whels
-
be whels you complain whenever you die.
I remember killing you and you accused of being invisible.
I cant take much that you say as fact.
Buts none of that is relevant in this situation. The guy that steve said rammed him said he shot steve.
If you collide with a guy and he doesnt shoot you (provided you fall to earth outside proxy kill range) no one gets the kill. I collided in the Ct last night. the guy collided with never shot I crashed into the channel no kill was awarded. If you collide on your front end you get the damage.
The collision model sucks but its limited by net lag. Even if we were all wired with fiber optics sitting right next to each the variances in processor speed etc would cause delays on each front end.
-
This problem can be solved very easily.
If you crash on your FE, nothing happens.
If the enemy crashs on his FE, nothing happens.
If BOTH crash on their FEs within a certain time and place frame, BOTH take damage from the collision.
-
Originally posted by Fatty
As a temporary solution Steve, don't run into other planes.
HA!
I hurt myself laughing :eek:
Fatty, that one deserves a beer :D
Carry on...
-
Why can't a collision be a collision. When two planes collide shouldn't they both suffer damage. HT has probably modeled it the way it is to prevent people from intentionally ramming, but how much intentional ramming would there be? After all, you might die!
-
wrong,
read my post I explained it.
No ccvi if you crash you die. Thats the way it should be.
-
"When two planes collide shouldn't they both suffer damage. "
if they both collide, they WILL both suffer damage. Thing is, because of net lag it's rare that both players will "See" a collision.
How would you like to fly past a guy 100 yards away and then suddenly die for no apparent reason?
J_A_B
-
Wotan, thats too funny.
Hey, Im in the MA today, I up a P-51 and fly around a bit, I spot this P-40 passing well under me, he's maybe 10k, Im at 23k, I dive down, 500 IAS, come in wings shaking, close to 200 yards, low 6, POW. Down he goes.
It was Whels, then on ch.1 guess what he accused me of? Ya, being invisible.
Hehe. Rich :)
Hey Whels, MA "ace"...at leat your B.S. is consistant! :)
In fairness, I was invisible, because there is no low 6 view in a P-40. Get a clue.
-
Originally posted by Squire
Wotan, thats too funny.
Hey, Im in the MA today, I up a P-51 and fly around a bit, I spot this P-40 passing well under me, he's maybe 10k, Im at 23k, I dive down, 500 IAS, come in wings shaking, close to 200 yards, low 6, POW. Down he goes.
It was Whels, then on ch.1 guess what he accused me of? Ya, being invisible.
Hehe. Rich :)
Hey Whels, MA "ace"...at leat your B.S. is consistant! :)
In fairness, I was invisible, because there is no low 6 view in a P-40. Get a clue.
u were, and did u ever figure out what story u gona stick with to cover it up? did u dive on me? like u said 1st. or did u come up from low 6 like u said few mins later? which was it? if ur gona lie stick to 1 version. telling multiple versions makes u even more guilty.
when the bullets flew ur plane wasnt there, but the bullets coming from ur position was, but no plane. and ur the only 1 that was inviso, the other planes near i could see fine.
never have said i was a MA ace, far from it, im worst pilot there, but i dont have to use linksys inviso plane or some other crap to kill.:eek:
-
Originally posted by Wotan
be whels you complain whenever you die.
I remember killing you and you accused of being invisible.
I cant take much that you say as fact.
Buts none of that is relevant in this situation. The guy that steve said rammed him said he shot steve.
If you collide with a guy and he doesnt shoot you (provided you fall to earth outside proxy kill range) no one gets the kill. I collided in the Ct last night. the guy collided with never shot I crashed into the channel no kill was awarded. If you collide on your front end you get the damage.
The collision model sucks but its limited by net lag. Even if we were all wired with fiber optics sitting right next to each the variances in processor speed etc would cause delays on each front end.
lol wotan,
ur such a hipocrite, only person u think says fact are u lol.
whels
-
See if you can follow along with me, cuz its real complicated.
I dove on you, AND I approached from low 6 after the dive.
I hope I dont have to resort to diagrams.
Anyways, I didnt mean to traumatize you so...maybe if you spent less time blathering like a girl on ch.1 you might have spotted me. Just a thought.
If the above manuever sounds too advanced?, like I mentioned, the TA is a usefull spot.
Later.
-
As a temporary solution Steve, don't run into other planes.
Good advice.
-
Originally posted by Squire
See if you can follow along with me, cuz its real complicated.
I dove on you, AND I approached from low 6 after the dive.
I hope I dont have to resort to diagrams.
Anyways, I didnt mean to traumatize you so...maybe if you spent less time blathering like a girl on ch.1 you might have spotted me. Just a thought.
If the above manuever sounds too advanced?, like I mentioned, the TA is a usefull spot.
Later.
oh now we on the 3rd version lol, u might get it right soon.
-
Well I was going to comment that I find the colision model excellent here. In 5 months of flying I've collided twice, both times I ran_right_into_the_con.
I understand the theory of why it works, and why it's the best you can do on the net.
Then I was going to comment on the collision bubble at WB that was so big I collided a couple of times a week without even seeing the collision on my FE. It was that big. It sucked with a big whooshing sound.
But after this little side bar started, I think I'll pop the lawn chair, drain a cold one and watch.
Also, I wouldn't give it more than a 2.8, no caps ???
-
A collision should work like getting shot. We put up with the various BS gunshots people get at times, so why not with collisions?
- If you collide with someone, your FE needs to see it for it to register.
- If someone shoots you, it doesn't matter if your FE sees the con 5k away flying backwards, you still get hit.
Both are acceptable solutions to the problems of net-lag, but it doesn't make any sense to me doing it two different ways. If we put up with deaths because of very laggy gunshots, why not with collisions?
Lets imagine for a moment what AH would be like if we reversed the two methods above.
- If you collide with someone on your FE, OR someone else collides with you on THIER FE, you both die.
- If someone shoots at you, and sees hits on thier FE, but on your FE he's only shooting past you(because of netlag of course) the hits don't register, since they never hit on your end.
An obviously ridiculous way of handling gunfire of course, but it illustrates the collision model we play with. If gunfire was handled the way collisions are, we'd never hear anything but whining. Collisions are handled in a way that would never be tolerated with something more important like gunfire.
Mutual collisions would introduce no more BS deaths than we already tolerate with gunfire. It would eliminate being able to "win" in a collision, and help deter people from Ho attacks, especially when they know thier connection will give them an edge.
Or maybe I just need a 28.8 dialup to play AH on.
-
You guys that really think that if both planes see a collision then both go down?
LoL, I did a test a few tours ago with another player. We went to the DA and tested collisions. We came to the following conclusions.
1) Who recieves dammage is a toss-up.
2) there is about 150 yards difference between planes when flying level at 300mph. When both have good connect.
3) If only one see a collision then he alone takes dammage (As stated above)
4) If both see collision then it is very randome who gets the dammage. In 10 attempts where we both said we seen collisions on our FE the following happened.
- 3 times the slower of the two aircraft took dammage.
- 4 times the faster of the two took dammage.
- 3 times both took dammage.
5) When the ram comes from behind. 9 of the ten times the one attacking died.
But hey thats was just a simple test. I guess I should redo it with films. Anyone interested?
Booky
-
When you go headon with someone just close your eyes as you get close and spray and pray.
If you do see you won't die. Works for me every time I see the headon I die. So from now on I'm closing my eyes.
-
Originally posted by Wotan
No ccvi if you crash you die. Thats the way it should be.
I dissagree on the way you think it should be.
If it looks like you crash into something, but that something actually evaded and you just don't see it because of lag, there should be no crash. Only if both FEs agree that there was a collision, damage should be applied.
This is my oppinion and I have not heard a good reason why this is a bad idea.
Lag already allowes something to happen to you although you don't see it. If you're beeing shot at damage and death have been decided before it is even transmitted. For consistency reasons the same should be valid for collisions - no crash if one evades, even if you don't see it.
Or what innominate said. The way it currently is, and wotan thinks is the only truth, sucks.
-
The following link contains a writeup on netlag in WB and a section on collisions. I believe AH has made improvements in these areas but I believe the descriptions of what is happening is accurate for AH as well as for Hitech's prior work.
http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/netlag.htm
Hooligan
-
First, I can't believe you idiots run into planes so often. You really need to try avoiding them.
Second, when I get damage from not running into someone, then I will complain. Until that point I will continue advising the first.
-
Innominate that's actually opposite.
In both situations you have control of what originates on your FE. It's just that one is a defensive case (steering your plane so that you avoid the other plane) and one is an offensive case (pointing your plane so the bullets hit).
Anyway you whine like a nancy. Just avoid the plane you putz.
-
Samething here squire come in high dove lo6 under and up and I get
"Wotan you are invisble"
Did it again to him when he was in a buff samething.
lol wotan,
ur such a hipocrite, only person u think says fact are u lol.
I dont understand what you are saying. If you see the collision on your front end then you collided. Its up to you to avoid colliding. Accidents happen. Sometimes its no bodies fault. But you can control your airplane. You can position yourself where you wont collide 99% of the time.
The same with killshooter 99% of the time you can avoid killshooter. You control your trigger.
Hits need to be determined on your front end. Or else net lag would make the game unplayable. the day I start just blowing up when clearly I havent collided on my front end I will quit.
If you claim thats happening now post the films.
In the first cap event I found something out about the hurri 1. I would dive in directly at the hurri. I aimed at the cockpit but the mgff dont have a good velocity so they hit the tail section. The hurris tail popped off and it nose pop up verticle. So I collided and died 2 times in this same way. After that I went back to the under and up. I was in control of my plane. I made adjustment and quit running into other guys aircraft. I occasionally collide when attacking bombers.
The only time I collide and squeak (even though its my fault) is in a scissor. When I know a guy will overshoot he pulls 9gs and flies through me. That pisses me off but its still my fault.
Theres no way in heck ht will change the collision model. If he does the few whines you hear about collisions now will be tripled.
-
The collision model works, leave it alone. Ccvi read Hoolies link.
-
poopster, no new information in there. i know how it works, but I don't like it.
And still no reason why the only collisions that cause damage should be those that are detected by both FEs. Except the point that it has always been the way it is now, which isn't quite convincing.
PS: i can't even remember dieing from collision (except with the ground and killer trees).
-
And still no reason why the only collisions that cause damage should be those that are detected by both FEs.
There is a reason. When they are moving, 2 aircraft are NEVER (yes really never) in the same places on different FEs. Collisons would be extremely rare because of this. Having collisions by mutual detection would be virtually equivalent to having no collisions at all. In the rare event when a collision did occur somebody would be here squeaking: "I fly through 30 enemy aircraft every day, but today when I flew through one I colided. What BS!".
Hooligan
-
I just hate this as well, especiall the tree HO model. Yesterday I dove straight at a tree - and he refused to avoid!!!!
Neither of us turned - and at the last possible instant I tried to avoid and was killed!!! What is worse - I looked back and that jerk was completely undamaged!
I can't believe that this tree was so completely dumb as to not understand that when you make the decision to snap a shot from that position - potentially bad things can happen. If only I could read the tree's mind, I would know when he was going to turn, and what way he was going to turn and this problem 'wood' go away..........
-
Originally posted by Steve
The ram model is roadkill. Once again someone gaming the game has proven it to me. I was about to pass by a spit that had been coming at me for a head on attempt. At the last split second he turns full into my nose so I fly into his belly... I went down in flames and he flew along on his undamaged blissful way... fix the diddlying ram model.. it's roadkill!
What a punk
-
Always been wierd in AH that the last one to hit the ground gets the kill. Hate to say it but Warbirds does this right. In the example of this thread both would get a kill and a death. It cuts down on HO's, because there is no way to profit from it like you can in AH by just being the last one to crash.
-
Oh man, pretty funny stuff guys! :D Stevy ran into me yesterday when I was at the top of a loop, He died and I kept flying along. And then he whined like a stuck piggy on channel 1 till the sun set.
-
wtg vwe,
lemme know how you perfected the "ram a guy on your 6 technique" :)
-
I can attest to Steve being upset...he was on Vox with us in the Squad channel...it was like one of those Jerky Boy phone calls, minus all the BEEP BLEEP's and such. But he was a gent and turned his vox off for us :)
Collisions? Get those all the times. Yer bullets, tearing my airplane apart :)
-
Ya, collision model has a couple of bugs I'd say. Not that I'm complaining, it's been in my favour. Haven't had a bad collision in a long time now.
Back in the day, ran head on into an N1k, he blew and I recieved zero damage. Never fired a shot, I got credit for the kill.
Two tours ago I dove down and head on into a Yak, couldn't get a shot but he blew I got credit much to the cheers and dismay of the ten guys chasing him. I took zero damage and never fired a round. I looked twice at the ammo just to make sure.
I can't complain about the collision model, it's been good to me, but I suspect some problems.
-
How is it decided who dies in a collision? I really can't figure out how it's calculated.
-
On you front end if you collide you get the damage. Your front end is what you see on your monitor. Thats the same way bullet hits are determined. If you shoot it on your front end the other guy gets the damage.
Net lag and current technology make it so that 2 guys will almost never see the same thing. It takes xx ms for your connection to reach the server. Another xx ms for your cpu and the server cpu to process the info. Plus the xx ms to the other guy from the server and xx ms for his cpu.
So what happens is one guy "sees" himself collide with the other guy. He gets the damage. The other guy never saw a collision. Because of the delay he may be d200 away from you.
The fairest way to do it is like ht has it. If you see a collision its your fault. You control your plane. You can avoid the collision. Sometimes accidents happen.
What you cant have is both guys getting damage because odds are atleast 1 of you did not collide on their front end. Imagin you just dove on an nme and you get in d100 fire and blow him up. Well on the other guys fe he saw you fly through him, "ramming him". This is what happens in most cases now.
But if it you both died you would be squeaking that you should have lived because you never rammed any body and you may show us a film where it shows you killing the guy with your guns.
With killshooter net lag plays a roll as well. The guy you claim "flew right" through you on your front end may see himself above you (or where ever). On his fe he never flew in front of you.
Thats why its up to you to make sure when you pull the trigger you will have a clear shot.
What it comes down to if you die to collisions or killshooter 99% of the time its your fault. There are always accidents where things happen and its no ones fault. Its frustrating when these things happen.
You just have to make the best of it.
If you think hos are bad now imagine them under ccvis suggestion. Collisions deaths would rarely happen and folks would fly right through you to ho you.
-
Steve, if you would fly something other than the Mustang, you wouldn't have these HO problems. :D
-
Originally posted by Turbot
Always been wierd in AH that the last one to hit the ground gets the kill. Hate to say it but Warbirds does this right. In the example of this thread both would get a kill and a death. It cuts down on HO's, because there is no way to profit from it like you can in AH by just being the last one to crash.
Yes, and forcing the enemy to ditch should score a kill like it is over there.
Also, plane wrackage shouldn't magically disappear.
Originally posted by Hooligan
There is a reason. When they are moving, 2 aircraft are NEVER (yes really never) in the same places on different FEs. Collisons would be extremely rare because of this. Having collisions by mutual detection would be virtually equivalent to having no collisions at all.
Read my short first post in this thread. Collision within place and time. Say within 2 seconds no further than 1k yards from eachother.
In the case of a crash on one front end and no crash on the other host could send a message "You're lucky, the enemy evaded".
Originally posted by Wotan
If you think hos are bad now imagine them under ccvis suggestion. Collisions deaths would rarely happen and folks would fly right through you to ho you.
Do you have to ram those HO dweebs to kill them? Dieing in a crash isn't "damn I crashed, need to pull away faster next time" but rather "not bad, perfectly lined up, need more firepower to make him explode before i crash into him".
At least that's why I loved the 110 in BOB/their finest hour about 15 years ago ;)
-
Actually VWE, I was irritated because of the following: I had you beat like a dog in your LA-7, you were taking hits from my rounds so you nose up into me late, whether you were trying one last desperate attempt at a head on(you had already tried several) or you were trying to ram me, or it was thew only option you had left, will remain a mystery.
We collided on FE's.. nose to nose... yet you went on your happy unmolested way. I wasn't upset that you tried this move, like I said, you had already demonstrated the HO is your preferred "move". I was upset because I saw two FE's collide and you suffered no damage even though you were equally responsible for the collision. Feel free to spew your own version. I'm not really interested however as your barely comprehensible babble on channel one has already shown me you are incapable of discussing the scenario based on the facts, only from a position that casts you in a favorable light...sadly it is far from what actually occured:rolleyes:
-
Was it the top of the loop or a head-on collision? VWE says one thing, Steve says another. Seems to me, if you chase a guy up into a vertical and he rotates down back on top of you, you kind of had it coming...
-
Steve you dont "front end" means :)
You cant possibly have seen what happened on vwe's "front end" unless you were sitting next him at his house.
Front end does not mean the front of his airplane lol :)
Follow Hooligans link...........
Here's a snippet
Every player has a copy of the Front End, and all communicate with the Host. The Front End consists of the flight simulator and the gunnery system. All flying and shooting (including collision detection, plane flying characteristics, and gun hit determination) occurs on the Front End. Thus, the only computer that determines whether you hit another plane is your own, the only computer that tells what your plane does is your own, and the only computer that determines whether you hit someone/something with guns or ground ordnance is your own. No collision detection or ordnance hit determination for you or anything you drop/fire is done on any other computer including the host.
-
Originally posted by Wotan
Steve you dont "front end" means :)
You cant possibly have seen what happened on vwe's "front end" unless you were sitting next him at his house.
Front end does not mean the front of his airplane lol :)
Follow Hooligans link...........
Here's a snippet
Wotan,
did u read Booky's note on his test?
of 10 on purpose Ramming, both seeing Rams on thier FEs,7 of the 10 only 1 took damage even though they both rammed.
in a test like that, both ram each other, if collision code wasnt
broke, they both shoulda took damage every time.
that test shows 70% of the time the collsion code is wrong to some degree.
that would account for times ive Seen on my FE we miss, yet i took damage, and sometimes even on the opposite side of plane
of where the enemy passed.
whels
-
I need films to believe it.......
I have tested ramming as well and found it impossible to achieve a situation where on each fe both clearly collided. 1 guy would get damage, as far as I could tell it was the guy who saw the collision on his front end.
I will test it again and see but thats still here nor there Steve is acknowledging he collided but he blames the collision on the other guy. The other guys are clearly saying they saw no collision.
If what you contend is true its a different issue then whats being claimed in this thread.
-
What was the maneuver of the attack? Were you both looping towards each other or was one chasing the other? Its kind of hard to take sides here without more information.
In the below example, Steve is the blue plane. Is this the way it happened?
-
Steve is the blue plane.
-
Originally posted by Wotan
I need films to believe it.......
I have tested ramming as well and found it impossible to achieve a situation where on each fe both clearly collided. 1 guy would get damage, as far as I could tell it was the guy who saw the collision on his front end.
i've had occasional rams where we both took the damage. and i believe levi has mentioned situations on a umm H2H (i think with just him and nath) where both take damage.
usually the reason why only *one* takes damage is directly attributable to net lag. in the absence of lag, both see it and take it.
-
Over the internet, there is no such thing as "absence of lag"..
Someone is always gonna be 50-300ms from where you see them.
Collisions are double sided when both people fug up and get to close to the enemy and run into them.
Collisions are one sided when only one guy fugs up and gets to close to the enemy and run into them.
This is as good as it gets until everyone has fiber optics and the highest amount of latency is 10ms point to point.
-SW
-
GoFaster, it was the second of your two...
Its just a game steve there are many more important things, at least in my life, that are worthy of discussion. I don't play this game so I can sit in the text buffer and chat.
-
Gofaster.. I love the animation,,,and I'm the blue plane... yay!
I love blue!
-
Originally posted by Steve
I was upset because I saw two FE's collide and you suffered no damage even though you were equally responsible for the collision.
Anybody else see the impossibility of this sentance?
Must be that super sekret FE telemuterwhineinducer he had installed in his plane so he can see the other persons FE through his monitor. :P
-
"RAMs"
I thought he quit?