Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SLCR on November 02, 2002, 07:59:42 PM
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My first whine...
Just logged in to shoot some Nits and Bish at 5pm PST. Then noticed the numbers were 6:1(!!). I have been putting up with the lopsided numbers, usually 2 or 3:1 because it meant lots of dweebs to shoot, but this was ree-dick-U-lous!!!! So I didn't even up.
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damm rooks gona screw this whole thing up
YOU ROOKS GET YOUR BUTTS IN THE AIR ...NOW
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6:1? looks like 3:1 to me
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3 to 1... 6 to 1... who cares?
The point is two sides got 150 people, and the other has only 50.
I know it's only a joke john, but seriously we're not the ones who are ruining it.
It's the Bishops and Knights, the newbies and mega squads which pile up there, and the veterans who keep encouraging those things, and the boneheads who advocate this situation by emphasizing the bogus "natural flow" theorem.
The longer this sort of thing goes, the bigger the need for artificial restriction which many people won't like. And once the artificial restriction sets in we have noone to blame butourselves.
I suggest veterans and squads of Knights and Bishops who really should know better seriously rethink about the numbers, start encouraging new players to go to Rooks, and consider moving 2~3 large squads to the Rooks.
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Kweassa
i hate to keep bringing this up but when the rooks have "squad night" or what ever they call it every 3 weeks , they put 200 to 250 people in the air, now if most rooks only want to fly one night a month don't blame the bish and knights.
44MAG
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Originally posted by john9001
Kweassa
i hate to keep bringing this up but when the rooks have "squad night" or what ever they call it every 3 weeks , they put 200 to 250 people in the air, now if most rooks only want to fly one night a month don't blame the bish and knights.
44MAG
oh yeah that is so much a balance .... NOT
1 day of equal #'s and rooks do good. how many times i seen knights or bish with 225 online. also rooks have NEVER beed more than 226 on "squad night".
on rooks "squad night" there usually is 200 rooks to 180-190 bish/knits ....... those #'s not overbalanced really ..... its the teamwork on those days
BTW 150 + 150 to 50 = 6-1 whoever mentioned that too. (see screenshot above)
this #'s thing is getting so Ridiculous that its not worth the effort to whine/fly anymore.
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Its weird that the other two countries always have about the same amount of players... but rooks seem to always be lower these days.
I can't help but wonder why that is.
AKDejaVu
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Its 12:30AM Pacific Standard Time on November 3rd, 2002. I logged in for a brief check of numbers, just to see what they are out of prime time.
Results:
Bishops = 61 | Knights = 81 | Rooks = 38
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Your right 3:1 if ONE side hits Rooks but it always seems to be a gang. Yeah, the numbers came up a bit when I logged back in to where the Rooks were taking bases but it's frustrating when the Rooks take a base Bish or Nits seem to go "Hey we can't let those poor out-numbered bastiges take a base" and they send the hordes after to take it back +1.
The Rooks numbers may spike up if and when a squad has a night but I haven't seen that is a couple months. Heck, even the 81st left and they were one of the more reliable squads with numbers...at least for Rook standards.
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I'm really sry for this rooks. I hate to see those numbers. If I could I would change to rooks with my whole squad but the problem is that nearly all germans are knights so I want to stay with all those people.
rooks
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The stupidity of the 3 country system.
Most times now, I log on. See the hammering the Rooks are suffering due to pathetic numbers and I log off. The game isnt fun. Whats less fun is determing HTC doesnt seem to care about it cause they cant be seen to be wrong.
Not a whine. Simply a personal observation regarding a ridiculous 3 country system. Being different, doesnt make it better.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I suggest veterans and squads of Knights and Bishops who really should know better seriously rethink about the numbers, start encouraging new players to go to Rooks, and consider moving 2~3 large squads to the Rooks.
Duedel : I'm really sry for this rooks. I hate to see those numbers. If I could I would change to rooks with my whole squad but the problem is that nearly all germans are knights so I want to stay with all those people.
Well airmess moved us to rooks , I think it was a good idea and I him on it , please to see my post in the GD board :D EVIL BISH MUST DIE or 8^) (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68840)
Really this has to be addressed asap , it's not fair and way past time IMO to fix it .
Kweassa is right it's up to us , the player base to step up and do the right thing .
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Originally posted by john9001
Kweassa
i hate to keep bringing this up but when the rooks have "squad night" or what ever they call it every 3 weeks , they put 200 to 250 people in the air, now if most rooks only want to fly one night a month don't blame the bish and knights.
44MAG
John hit it right on the head. We know that you rooks are capable of big numbers because you do it during your RJO nights. The question is "why cant you put these numbers up every night?" I dont believe that there is any way that HTC can 'force' anyone to switch to a different side. Not unless they feel like driving away customers by doing so.
Its a bit ridiculous to keep wailing about numbers imbalance when we all know the rooks are capable of putting up big numbers. I think the emphasis needs to be on figuring out why all those rooks dont fly except for RJO nights. I know why I dont fly rooks and frankly I have a feeling that my reasons are very similar to a lot of others that wont fly rooks.
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I don't fly anymore (though I am still a Rook) because everytime I log on I am greeted by us being slaughtered by two sides that display little skill, no sportsmanship and grossly outnumber us.
I then log off.
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If the Bishops or Knights had a "joint ops" night they'd have over 300 players up.
Whoever thinks that most rooks only play once a month is completely mistaken. The ratio of daily players to weekly or less players will be about the same for each country.
"Not a whine. Simply a personal observation regarding a ridiculous 3 country system. Being different, doesnt make it better."
DIfferent than what? A 3-country system was used in the FIRST online flightsim.
Anyway, I don't think it's necessarily the numbers themselves that is the biggest problem (it's a problem but not an unsolvable problem)....some people LIKE "fighting the horde". I think most of the problem is the strat model which punishes the country that's least able to defend itself, so the country that's outnumbered all too often also has to deal with porked bases, nowhere safe to take off from, no dar, etc.
It's just not fun to play when you can't tell what's going on or you have to take off with 5 enemy planes trying to vulch you from a damaged field. I'm sure it's fun for the other country though getting easy kills on blind helpless targets :rolleyes:
I think it's "fair" to willingly fly against the odds. I do NOT think it's fair to have to play without having the same opportunities or tools as other players. Nobody is willing to stay online ALL day just to guard the HQ or cap their own field, and even if they did 3-4 guys can't really stop a horde of 20+ people from blowing the stuff up. Currently, the Rooks all too often have to play against a stacked deck.
J_A_B
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Hi, I'm Fancy and I've been a Rook since I first came on the scene and I will probably stay that way. It basically boils down to the fact that my squad is with the Rooks and I like being familiar with the people around me.
We can go around and around on this till we run out of breath and drop dead. By now you might be able to realize that even with vastly inferior numbers the Rooks are learning quite well how to deal with the hordes. Unlike a month ago when the Bish machine was rolling, we don't go down easy anymore. All things from strife don't you know. In the race for survival of the fittest, we are being forced to advance faster. I don't care about the numbers anymore and I doubt that any mechanism devised to combat number inequalities would amount to much.
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I got to say since only flying rook for just this tour it's pretty easy to get kills against the bish dweebs , sheeeeeesssssssss .
I do hate flying for 3 hours with no DAR what so ever though . Can't imagine a newbie flying rooks for long , and if they do , wtg on you .
We were 3 to 1 again when I had to log off for real life duties .
Go right ahead and keep pating yourselves on the back all others sides , your really doing great ain't ya's ??? lmao
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Flying for Rooks is quite cool actually... Of course you have to learn to fly without AWACS Radar system and without the help of 'green hordes' so popular and ever-present in the other 2 countries... (but it also solves the problem of kill-stealing and kill-shooting since in most cases there are no friendlies around you who would steal the kill or 'accidentaly' cross your line of fire...) But man!!! What a target rich environment!! :D
But again I understand that newbies wont spend much time in this country...
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Originally posted by sling322
John hit it right on the head. We know that you rooks are capable of big numbers because you do it during your RJO nights. The question is "why cant you put these numbers up every night?" I dont believe that there is any way that HTC can 'force' anyone to switch to a different side. Not unless they feel like driving away customers by doing so.
Its a bit ridiculous to keep wailing about numbers imbalance when we all know the rooks are capable of putting up big numbers. I think the emphasis needs to be on figuring out why all those rooks dont fly except for RJO nights. I know why I dont fly rooks and frankly I have a feeling that my reasons are very similar to a lot of others that wont fly rooks.
Was waiting on someone to throw this on the table. RJO merely highlights the problem. When RJO starts up people from bish and nits switch to rooks cause they know we're gonna be steam rolling the map.
6:1/3:1 thrila? Guess yer overlookin the fact that when the numbers are that low the rooks are actually facing 4:1 - 5:1 odds, because there are only a few border skirmishes between the nits and bish as both countries race to take bases from the rooks.
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Hey CavemanJ, on the other non RJO days when you Rooks ain't rolling up the map why don't you join me in Hyperlobby, we cannot capture bases like we used to way back when, but we can sure mess one up with IL2s.
Getting some Mediums soon too, ain't B17s but might do in a pinch.
Only 2 sides and no P51 VS P51 nonsense.
Sling322, come see me in Hyperlobby, I promise to let ya come back here.
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something that makes you go HMMMM:D
was Knight = great fun...lotsa jokes on
ch2.....many fun friends to fly with.
was Rook = not so fun....no jokes on ch2...not so many FRIENDS to fly with.
is Bishop = great fun...lotsa jokes on ch2.....many fun friends to fly with.
if i had to change.....it would be either knights or stay bish
it has nothing to do with numbers but more of the attitude of the core fighters of each group.
If the rook core fighter group was more oriented towards missions and support rolls....I'm sure many would return to pet the sheep....but so far the core group stays fixated on being loners....when some1 changes to rooks after being knights or bishops....just ain't the same.
they feel LONELY being ROOK...and yet this is a TEAM oriented GAME.
go figure...keep blaming numbers when the attitude is to blame
SlowHand
44th DiMMaK
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Originally posted by SLO
go figure...keep blaming numbers when the attitude is to blame
SlowHand
44th DiMMaK
maybe the numbers is to blame for the attitude?
just positin'
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Could care less...
Sometimes being Rook is just enough to fill one's patience, but that only seldom happens.
I've been a Rook from the very beginning, and the more we suffer overwhelming odds, the more stubborn I become in staying Rook.
On the "Plus" side, usually Bishes are really green pilots who don't know squat about ACM, and provide a stable and juicy source of perk points.
I tend to fight them more than Knits, because Knits are usually away from the regular Bish lemming tactic, and their vulch is usually land-grabbing driven, instead of pure score piling that presides Bish normal behaviour.
At the very end, it boils down to keeping your blood and head cool and just clobber the little bish baby seal again and again...
Knits and Bishs....keep coming!
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I know how to fix the numbers problem. Have Knights and Rooks team up against Bish. Make them loose for weeks on end until all the people who moved to bish to win move back to the Rooks or Nits.
Only problem is, they'll probably all move to Nits because the Rooks have such poor numbers. Then Nits will have those slimy POS, and we don't want 'em.
Death to Bish.
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We Rooks know what are problems culture wise.
[list=1]
- Unless you are part of a squad its rather lonely to be an independent in Rook land. We are working on that and the C.O.s of several squads are making an effort to communicate and work with everyone independent and squaddies alike to make everyone feel like they are apart of a community.
- Less jovial atmosphere. Yes, that is true and I am not sure what really can be done about more jokes, etc. Problem stems from a very hard nose attitude now in place in the game. We log on into a viscious fight where many times we are the bone of contention that the other two sides are trying to reset. Its the nature of the fighting we have right now that simply put most of us don't have alot of time to type since we are in a desperate fight within minutes of being in the arena. On the other hand you should hear us on VOX and range VOX. Easier to talk and fly than type and fly in the situation we in. Of course that does not help making an independent or a newbie feel apart of things.
We are working on this too to make Rook land more chatty and such.
- A few monkeys screaming and ranting making new people to Rookland feel unwelcome. This has been recognized and many squads are working to calm the monkeys and stop the harrassing behavior.
Lazer came over last night and the monkeys started in on him but others jumped in and calmed the monkeys down and started chatting with Lazer.
xbat has also visited Rook land with his squaddies and they were not chased out.
- RJO schedule .. yes, we can organize and yes we can turn out the numbers. We did last night, although even at our peak of 203 the knights still had more. But we did well and came back from 3 bases to hit a peak of 33 bases at one point in 3 hours.
It takes alot of behind the scenes work to do this and get an ops rolling. Rooks are an independent lot and often in the MA we get so immersed in the moment of trying to hold the line that we forget to communicate and coordinate.
This is being addressed and while I can't vouch for all time periods I have seen a marked increase in Rook numbers in the 9-12 EST frame. With us putting up around 100 pilots to 110 pilots. Doesn't seem like a lot but its 20-30 pilots more on average. Give us time to rebuild our numbers.
RJO purpose is to get all Rooks to work, communicate and coordinate more. Buts its a volunteer thing. There is no dictator saying you must do this, or do that, or fly this way. Its a bunch of squads talkign to each other and asking where you are fighting and how can I help. A dictator would be more efficient but less fun. A voluntary group is more fun but takes more time to get things rolling and make changes to the culture. Again give it time.
- One side switching to Rooks when RJO is steamrolling. Personally I don't believe this. Some might come over but take last night as an example. Our peak was 203 but at the beginning of our drive we had maybe 140 .. up to our peak and afterwards we were in 190 - 180 range. For whatever reason when we started taking Bishop bases and their numbers dropped off dramatically ours did not increase dramatically. And we were not guaranteed the reset .. while we closed on the Knights they held a base lead and always had more players. So I am not sure how many switched to us since they thought we were going to win.
- Overall for three months Rooks have had a number drop off. Part of its cultural and that is being addressed. There might be other factors also involved. As for what they are I am not sure.
Part of me wonders if we have more Rooks on the east coast than in other time zones. I have noticed that our numbers really drop off around midnight EST. Could be indicative of the east coasters logging off because they have to work the next day.
There could be more loss of pilots base do to burn out. Many of the Rooks squads are long term squads that existed here and in AW. Its possible that many squads are suffering pilots losing interest in flying or cutting back there flying hours since the shine is off the apple. Personally I like MA but I look forward to friday night TOD and plan for it and do maps, etc. I don't do it for MA.
In my case I spend about 20% to 25% of my flying time now in events not in the MA. Not sure if others also have switched flying to more in TODs, CT, special events, etc.
Point is that it could be a cyclical thing where some pilots in the established squad have lost interest. Numbers go down and becomes a siege environment and others lose interest.
Squads are working on reversing this. Again it will take time.
[/list]
RJO consists of 33 squads now trying to make things better in Rookland. We are working on it and have seen some improvement in the last two weeks since we really started making a push to address things.
Its hard to wait and deal with being outnumbered and its frustrating to watch things slowly turn around. I think they will but I also think it might take a full camp to start really seeing results and numbers rebuild.
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Originally posted by Sunchaser
Hey CavemanJ, on the other non RJO days when you Rooks ain't rolling up the map why don't you join me in Hyperlobby, we cannot capture bases like we used to way back when, but we can sure mess one up with IL2s.
Getting some Mediums soon too, ain't B17s but might do in a pinch.
Only 2 sides and no P51 VS P51 nonsense.
Sling322, come see me in Hyperlobby, I promise to let ya come back here.
Hyperlobby?
Guess this is something I've just totally missed.
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
Hyperlobby?
Guess this is something I've just totally missed.
Try over here (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz) damn it! :D
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What was sad for me was to see that we have fallen so far that even on RJO night we couldn't match the casual numbers of the Knights and we couldn't get a reset.
Its like being a German after the Battle of the Bulge. You threw everything you had at it and it still wasn't enough.
:(
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Karnak,
Agreed .. well sort of. Even we weren't so far in the whole to begin with (3 bases to start) I think we might have been able to pull off a reset. If we had another 30 Rooks on I think we might have been able to pull off the reset.
But in truth I think that is the second time that the RJO has broken 200+ pilots maybe third at the most.
Several squads has reinvigorated (JG27th comes to mind) and our fielding more pilots. Plus, more Rook squads are involved now and we are hooking more.
Will have to wait and see if we get a better turn out do to what we are trying in the next RJO.
But hey it was a good knight 30 bases in 3 hours from starting at 3 bases.
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J_A_B
(...) I think most of the problem is the strat model which punishes the country that's least able to defend itself, so the country that's outnumbered all too often also has to deal with porked bases, nowhere safe to take off from, no dar, etc.
(...)
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AtmkRstr
I know how to fix the numbers problem. Have Knights and Rooks team up against Bish. (...)
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1. Radar should not be part of the strat model. If a country is reduced to a few fields it's easy enough to knock down local radar. If a country is in good shape it can easily resupply HQ. So hits on HQ Radar are either too punishing or futile.
2. The 3 countries should have 3 different colors. This would help to build local or strategic alliances. Maybe it wouldn't change the outcome of the battle considering the given numbers, but it would add some new options. (Well you got it: I'm an Ex-AWer :p)
I'm Knight since I started playing AH (only) a year ago and I remember times when the Knights had the least numbers most of time. Looks like things change in here like everywhere. :)