Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Thrawn on November 03, 2002, 05:44:03 PM
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What happens if your government turns TYRANICAL!! :eek:
No way in hell are you going to stop a M1A2 Main Battle Tank with your puny rifle or pistol. :(
You need a...
(http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/archives/tow/tow_07.jpg)
...TOW missile to defend your second amendment rights!! :cool:
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You won't be able to afford it with your taxes.
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Hell, our military couldn't afford it with their budget.
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Nice try Thrawn... and good humor, but hear is what James Madison said about it, and it is still a fundamental truth today.
"Suppose that we let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal: still it would not be going too far to say that the State governments with the people at their side would be able to repel the danger...half a million citizens with arms in their hands" --James Madison, The Federalist Papers
I'm not too worried about the Federal Government overtly attacking our populace in any great force, as the above freedom prevents it.
But the "boil a frog in cold water" syndrome is certainly changing things. If we can give away our rights and freedoms slowly and immeasureably it's not too painful. This is what is dangerous. Should we allow the slow slide, or take a stand at each attempt to slide further?
What did Benjamin Franklin warn? "Those who will trade liberty for safety....
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Nice try Thrawn... and good humor, but hear is what James Madison said about it, and it is still a fundamental truth today.
I don't know. I think that technological advace in military weapons, as opposed to civilian, outstrips anything that Mr. Madison could have possibly imagined.
I'm not too worried about the Federal Government overtly attacking our populace in any great force, as the above freedom prevents it.
Oh I don't think that they will either, but I imagine it has to do with the fact that probably all want what they think is best for the US.
This is what is dangerous. Should we allow the slow slide, or take a stand at each attempt to slide further?
I agree, as someone without rights, that you should defend them.
What did Benjemin Franklin warn? "Those who will trade liberty for safety....
You do give up some liberty for safety. You still have laws you have to follow.
I'm glad that American's fight for thier second ammendment rights. I just think that the, "needing them to fight against our government, if they become tyranical", argument is not very realistic.
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I think the neat thing about our military is this:
Should the pols ever really turn against the people, the military would probably turn them out and restore the Constitution.
Enlistment Oath
I, _____________________________ ______, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Allegiance here is sworn to the Constitution; that's a bit different than some other countries.
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Damn, forgot about that little tidbit. But you would still be relying on the good will of the military, not your own weapons.
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You forgot that, we don't. And our weapons will just be a little security in case they have your attension span.
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Thrawn, a LARGE number of the folks discussing this here on the BBS on the pro-gun side WERE "the military".
And those that we trained to replace us are cut from pretty much the same bolt of cloth. And so on down the line. Think about who the US miltary attracts. People like me. :D
You won't find Ispar (remember him?) signing up.
I'm real comfortable with the US military and the safety of the Constitution.
:D
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Originally posted by Creamo
You forgot that, we don't.
I'll sleep better at night knowing the every Amercian has you to speak for them (I could almost see your steely glare).
And our weapons will just be a little security in case they have your attension span.
The word is miniscule, not little.
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Wow... so much for opposition. Man this BBS gets one sided too often and easy.
Anyway, Al Rocker's Brew Pub USA tour is on, so is the Giants game.
Go get em.
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Down with guns, up with tyranny!
Better Creamo? :D
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Originally posted by Creamo
Wow... so much for opposition. Man this BBS gets one sided too often and easy.
Recap for the stupid people.
Thrawn: Saying you need weapons to defend yourself against your government is silly because the US army is so powerful.
Creamo: I'm an ultra melon.
Toad: It's okay, the military will side with us.
Creamo: I have sex with goats.
New premise by Thrawn: Saying you need weapons to defend yourself against your government is silly because the US army is so powerful. If they kick out the government so be it. Your rifle or pistol will hardly make a difference.
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The argument that suggests that Americans need guns to protect themselves against their own government, which is purportedly so full of "checks and balances" to prevent such a necessity, seems McVeighesque and paranoid to me.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I don't know. I think that technological advace in military weapons, as opposed to civilian, outstrips anything that Mr. Madison could have possibly imagined..
Was the same argument not applied ~225 years ago, when the british had an unbeatable army? Guess what happened? The military with all thier technology, training, and resources, would be split in any major attack on the government. So much of this would leave government hands as well. A rebellion can't easily begin without weapons.
An important point to remember is that we currently live under a benign government, even if we had no constitutional rights, we would still be fairly well off. The problem is, once those rights go away, THAT is when the tyrrany can start to creep in. Our rights, all of them, keep the government in check. Without them, things would slowly degenerate.
And curval, it most definitly IS paranoid. But the paranoia isn't unfounded, tyrrany in one form or another has, and most likely always will exist in the world. The checks and balances are to help keep the government in line, but there is always the chance something will break down. And when it does, I'd like to think that we won't put up with it for long.
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Originally posted by Innominate
A rebellion can't easily begin without weapons.
Good point.
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LMAO at the Creamo recap Thrawn.
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An armed populace is a far better deterrant against tyranny than an unarmed populace.
Bear in mind that each state has its very own combat force(s) called the National Guard. These states guards have F16s and M1A2s that could be called upon by all the states to counter any rouge generals aspirations of dictatorship. Couple this with an armed populace and all is fine.
Also, dont drop the ball on a free mans right to defend against criminal persons intent on theft, rape and murder.
Its a double edged sword and both slice equally well IMO.
"A well regulated militia, being neccessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
So it is written, so it shall be..........learn it, love it, live it.
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The states have their own armed forces?? Is the governor thier CinC?? Are there federal limitations on what the National Guard can do?
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The Army National Guard (http://www.arng.army.mil/About_Us/)
The National Guard has a unique dual mission that consists of both Federal and State roles. For state missions, the governor, through the state Adjutant General, commands Guard forces. The governor can call the National Guard into action during local or statewide emergencies, such as storms, fires, earthquakes or civil disturbances.
In addition, the President of the United States can activate the National Guard for participation in federal missions. Examples of federal activations include Guard units deployed to Bosnia and Kosovo for stabilization operations and units deployed to the Middle East and other locations in the war on terrorism. When federalized, Guard units are commanded by the Commander-in-Chief (CinC) of the theatre in which they are operating.
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This has all already happened. Its called the civil war.