Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: eskimo2 on November 03, 2002, 08:15:30 PM
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I love planes. All planes, even crappy planes. Since Libya, I have developed a new respect for the 202 and have even been flying it in the MA. Despite its poor reputation, it’s really a very good performing plane plagued with skimpy guns. It got me thinking, however, wouldn’t it fun to put all of the planes with bad reputations and little MA use together in one scenario. What I am proposing is a scenario that includes aircraft that have most of the following characteristics: Little MA use, poor MA K/D, weak guns/little ammo, slow, & early war. The planes/GVs that I would suggest are:
Allied:
P-40B
Hurri I
Hurri IID
Spit I
IL-2
F4F-4 (or/and FM-2) (on CVs only)
SBD (on CVs only)
Boston III
C-47
LTV-2 (on fleets only)
M-8
M-3
Axis:
109E
110C
C.202
A6M2 (on CVs only)
D3A1 (on CVs only)
JU-88
C-47
LTV-2 (on fleets only)
M-8
M-3
The map for this set-up should have lots of CVs to promote navel action.
eskimo
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No FM2s. They far outclass the A6M2. As the Midway scenario just demonstrated the F4F-4 outclasses the A6M2.
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Well the F4F outclasses the Zeke in a many vs many situation, but that's because in many vs many what matters most is speed, diving ability, firepower and durability and 3 of those are in the Wildcat's favor.
In a 1 vs 1 or few vs few like you typically have in the CT, the Zeke is definately a match for the Wildcat.
Ther FM2 is definately too "uber" for that planeset though. The 202 may be too since it can easily outrun and outclimb anything the Allies would have although it most definately has been the historical "junk heap" of Aces High in most people's minds.
J_A_B
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The 202 has been stigmatised do to the fact that for the longest time it was the only early war ftr we had and in comparision with all the 44 types that prevailed in the MA for so long it was hoplesly out clased. In it's time it was a great plane, and now that HTC is doing more early war stuff we can see that. I watched Moot a squadmate land a 10 kill sortie in a 202 in the MA the other day, all air to air kills, Fing amasing, he has runs in it often, I stared in amasment the other night as he stuck to a George like glue and sent it in...Anything is possable if you put your mind to it.
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Agree no FM-2s. No way that is a turd, even in a late war planeset.
Interesting idea though. The experiment only costs a week, and it would finally get a Japanese plane back in the CT (the last 4 settings have excluded Japanese planes; only 2 out of the last 10 setups involved Japanese a/c).
An early war Burma setup features some of the planes you mention (P-40B, Hurri I, Boston III, A6M2, D3A). And though the Finnish pilots may think the FM-2 is a suitable substitute for the Brewster Buffalo in their "Winter War" terrain, I don't think it would be appropriate here. Flying against Yak-9s and La-5s is a different situation.
Ki.43 and Ki.21 or G3M would be nice additions to this setup.
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the P40 isnt to bad is it?
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I have'nt flown either the F4F, or the FM-2 (been out of the loop for almost 3 months). I see in the MA the FM-2 gets more use and has a much better K/D than the F4F. Is the FM-2 that much better? Anyway, we prolly should include just the F4F in this set-up if it is accepted.
eskimo
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Is the FM-2 that much better?
IMHO... oh yeah. Close to 1000fpm better climb and the associated acceleration that goes with it.
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F4F will dominate this setup....
BTW Spit V and Bf109F4 are in this timeframe too. So unless you add those you should drop the F4F as well.
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Hmmm.
How about a PTO or 19443/44 ETO with the BOB map.
We just did the Korea deal, lets not jump on another fantasy matchup already.:eek:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
F4F will dominate this setup....
BTW Spit V and Bf109F4 are in this timeframe too. So unless you add those you should drop the F4F as well.
GRUNHERZ,
The point of this setup isn't a particular time frame, its about aircraft that suck.
The Spitfire Mk Vb and Bf109F-4 don't suck. Therefore they don't get included.
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I think its a great idea. No fm2 but the rest look great. 202 has such terrible guns it belongs even though it is a very good turn fighter.
how bout the ar234 as well? And toss that ju88 it is a fine bomber in the ct.
Also maybe the yak9t.
what ya thunk.
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great idea
the thought of an appropriate skin came to mind :)
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I'm not sure the Yak-9T sucks in the way that the rest of these suck. The 9T is rather fast and nimble 37mm platform. It may suck as a fighter compared to the 9U, but I think it would probably eat the likes of the Spit I alive.
Although, my record of predictions on which plane will dominate in any given setup is rather bad.
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I am not sure either. That is why I would like to see it. I think these turds are not necessarily 'slow and bad' but just have way more personality than an average pilot would want to deal with. eg the yak 9t
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That's certainy fair.
Bring on the Yak-9T! Bombers Beware!
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The Yak-9T most certainly does not suck.
Fly it for awhile in the MA. It really doesn't suck.
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Its not that it sucks, its just rarely flown. Even in russian setups in the ct it rarely gets flown. I think its big tater gun would be interesting.
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If aircraft in this set up were to be classified as follows:
Allied Land-Based = P-40B, Hurri I, Hurri IID, Spit I, IL-2 *, & Boston III
Axis Land-Based = 109E, 110C, C.202, & JU-88
Allied Carrier-Based = F4F-4 & SBD
Axis Carrier-Based = A6M2 & D3A1
* (IL-2 being the oddball of any group)
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This set-up would present 7 possible group match-ups, and my opinion as to how historical a match they would present:
1. Allied Land-Based Vs. Axis Land-Based - (Semi-historical match-up, similar to the Libya set-up)
2. Allied Carrier-Based Vs. Axis Land-Based - (Bogus/Not a historical match-up)
3. Allied Land-Based Vs. Axis Carrier-Based - (Semi-historical match-up)
4. Allied Carrier-Based Vs. Axis Carrier-Based - (Classic historical match-up)
5. Allied Land & Carrier-Based Vs. Axis Carrier-Based - (Semi-historical match-up, similar to the Libya set-up)
6. Allied Land-Based Vs. Axis Land & Carrier-Based - (Bogus/Not a historical match-up)
7. Allied Land & Carrier -Based Vs. Axis Land & Carrier-Based - (Bogus/Not a historical match-up)
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Of these seven possible clashes, the first (#1, land vs. land) will be the most common fight found, and will likely always be present/possible.
#2 & #3 will occur if one side uses a Task group to attack an enemy base away from the front lines. Both are likely to occur throughout the set-up. #2 being bogus, #3 being historical.
#4 presents a great match if and when the fleets ever find each other at sea. (With the short CT side-switch time, they very likely will find each other.)
#s 5, 6 & 7 will only occur if one or both sides use Fleets to attack front-line bases. I would think that most CT players would avoid these scenarios for both historical and strategic value.
So where does this leave this set-up as having a historical basis? The only likely situation that will seem historically odd, will be when Allied Carrier-Based planes attack Axis Land-Based planes. (F4Fs & SBds fighting 109s, 202s, 110s &Ju-88s) I would bet that we would see this 10 to 20% of the time. The rest, should look fairly historical.
eskimo
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The Yak-9T should only be included if the Allied whines exceed the Axis whines.
eskimo
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From AKDejavu's plane stats page:
The 10 LEAST-used unperked fighters of the MA:
P-40B
Hurricane IID
Me-109E
Hurricane I
Me-110C
P-40E
Spitfire I
FW-190F-8
Macchi 202
F4F-4
Numbers 11-13 are the A6M2, Ki-61 and Yak-9T
J_A_B
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Hmmm, so just how long a burst would it take to bring down an IL-2 with the C.202? :confused:
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Originally posted by HFMudd
Hmmm, so just how long a burst would it take to bring down an IL-2 with the C.202? :confused:
LOL, I think if you put them all in the tail you could take one down...
eskimo
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Originally posted by J_A_B
From AKDejavu's plane stats page:
The 10 LEAST-used unperked fighters of the MA:
P-40B
Hurricane IID
Me-109E
Hurricane I
Me-110C
P-40E
Spitfire I
FW-190F-8
Macchi 202
F4F-4
Numbers 11-13 are the A6M2, Ki-61 and Yak-9T
J_A_B
Hmm... Pretty much this set-up.
IMHO, the P-40E, FW190F-8, Ki-61, & Yak9T are a bit too uber for this set-up. Espescially with the Axis being a bit short already...
eskimo
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F4F4 does not suck, in fact its prolly the best overall plane in that setup...
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exactly, when you compare it to a sopwith camel the f4f kicks butt.
i retract the 9t and agree it is probably too uber.
Now a plane with a top speed of 280 under 10k and 320 above that, is not what I would call 'the most uber plane in the setup'. A6m2 and 202 are both outstanding aircraft (in the world of turds). The hurri 1 and spit 1 I believe are probalby going to see more time than the f4f. I will be flying it cause its usn though. That an the il2....