Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zigrat on June 06, 2000, 10:10:00 AM
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Man I think AH is a great game but heres the little things I think HTC could improve to make the game better.
1) Make ditching harder. I think ditching should be possible, but only if you are in a non combat situation, IE mabye good equirements would be speed<120 knots, VV<-200feet/min ie you could ditch but this "unintentional ditching" where a wing gets sawed off on a extremely low level con and he just kinda ditches instead of dying.
2) Make hispanos slightly less effective versus armor. Right now its near impossible to kill a tank with 20mm mausers, but with 20mm hispanos its fish in a barrel. I have gotten over the F4u-1c, it has enough weaknesses that it CAN be overcome, I just think its hitting power versus tanks is slightly exagerated (at least compared to mausers).
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Yeah ditching is too easy. Maybe it should depend on the plane. Would it be more likely to survive a ditch in an F4U than in a Spitfire (given the same speed and ROD)?
popeye
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Ditching is 'not' a matter of speed but rather where you ditch. I already explained the P47 pilot ditching twice around 300 Mph but it was on the airport area.
Ditching at 300Mph in a corn field or in the Borneo jungle should not have the same outcome.
Ditching in a forest doesn't necesseraly means dying. Usually u try top stall at tree top, meaning slow speed required.
Not modeled in AH yet, flying between 2 trees and ripping wings is considered 'safe' in the ditching process.
Salute all.
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Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
(http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/SFRT-AH-LOGO.jpg) www.sfrt.net (http://www.sfrt.net)
[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 06-06-2000).]
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I've suggested this before. Tie the likelyhood of a successful ditch to the texture mapping of the terrain you touch down on. Ditch on light green (ie. grass), and your chances for a good ditch (you live (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) are maybe 90%. Ditch on gray (ie. rocky, broken ground) and you've get a 1 in 10 chance of saving your neck. My two pence worth.
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Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)
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I like it Rojo. Trying to make it to a "safe" terrain to ditch sounds a lot like Frenchy describes.
popeye
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Zig,
Let's face it, people ditch for 2 reasons, to not hurt their score, and to not give someone else a kill. The kill assignment is something that I think 90% of people agree should be a kill, it's just now to score it properly. The score thing, well, it's a matter of pilot skill to ditch well and it should be rewarded. It's also a risk though, sometimes you can lay that plane down and it flips and kills you...
I just haven't seen that many people manage to ditch seriously wounded planes lately. At VERY low alts and high speeds, sure, I've seen people lay their plane down at 400mph and skip for a mile or two, but I haven't seen many one winged planes ditching lately. Of my past 25 or so ditches, maybe 1 is what I would have considered a lucky ditch, all the rest were simple engine damage making a ditch necessary.
How many people are actually seeing these ditches where majorly wounded planes manage to put it down and survive? Of the 3 encounters I had last night I only got 1 kill because the other 2 planes ditched, but I knew I only wounded the other planes lightly so I expected that they'd get away. Saw a wing off and then try and watch them ditch....
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Soda
The Wrecking Crew
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I think if you ditch and the enemy is over your position say 3km radius it should be a kill recorded but not necessary a death for the ditching pilot either..
Say the ditching pilot is on the ground for say 15-30 secs before he can find cover from the respective aircraft... Hence if you really dont like that guy strafe him.
Nevertheless If you force your opponent to the ground in aircombat it is a kill.
That alone would solve the problem...
Might need some fine tunning on the strafing part...
Regards,
DoctorYO
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Historically, weren't "kills" awarded for planes forced down due to damage? you got a kill for killing the plane...not the opposing pilot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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OH AND HOW ABOUT THIS
i get royally torn in battle, my plane is a mess, i'm wounded and blacking out from loss of blood, engine is out and i'm spilling gas all over the sheep.
But through it all i got my poor carcase of a plane to base and put it down in the lawn between the 2 airstrips.. AND THATS CALLED A DITCH
Seems to be a succesful landing u gotta be on pavement... a sidewalk or a runway.
BUMMERS!
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WarChild
I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Where's the Charmin!"
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DrYo i thinks thats a great idea.
I think if you managed to extend 3 km and then ditch, you should get away. This i agree with.
I think your suggestion about 3km is a VERY good one. If the plane ditches within 3 km of an enemy, its a kill. (whoever put the most bullets into him).
Or if that was impossible, the forced stay once stopped of 15 seconds would be sufficient, it would allow you to strafe the guy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If I am in a fight at 20k and I smoke a guys engine and he dives for ground, and i stay high, I don't expect the kill, he got away.
If I am scisoring at 50 feet off the ground, i get a snapshot and take half his wing off, and he goes into the ground but lives, i expect the kill. This is where the 3km rule would be good (it could be radial not just over ground level so if your opponent stayed above 10k feet you could safely ditch too.
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Not to mention that EVERY mission from a vehicle base is a ditch or a capture.
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If you damage a plane and he doesn't make it home, that should be a kill. That's how it was in WW2 and how it oughta be here.
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Hiya Soda... sorry; gotta disagree.
I have had literally dozens of AC worked down low in turnfights and have delivered catatsrophic terminal damage to them, BOTH wings gone; completly turned em into a tumbling wreck; tail gone; with just a tent peg fuselage spewing flames... Then they just thud into the ground, skid to a stop and get a safe ditch.
Certainlly; if I had hit this plane at 2k feet; I would have a kill for my efforts.. but some of these planes; particularly buffs and La5's (dunno why) just get a safe ditch when they hit the ground at low AOA's from low alt, regardless of catastrophic structural damage or speed. Certainly; this should be addressed.
Hang
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Soda, not everyone ditches for thoses reasons. Did it ever occur to you that the ditching person might not give a rats bellybutton about score and might just be trying to save his/her simulated life?
I think ditches should count as kills for the player that forced the ditch, but ditching itself is not the dishonorable act you make it out to be.
A lot of the bravado that gets posted by people here, i.e. "Don't be a wuss, ride it down", "Never run from a fight, even if the odds/position make the fight hopeless" and "Ditchers are just score-potatos" would have fit in great with the Japanese honor system that had pilots not wearing parachutes because they didn't want to shame themselves and maybe bail out a couple of seconds before they had too. The Japanese high command HAD to order their pilots to carry parachutes, and then ended up HAVING to order them to wear the parachutes. This bravado is just stupid.
When I fly I am kinda roleplaying at being a combat pilot, and thus I will do everything I can to stay alive while accomplishing something. It is more important to stay alive than to save the kite.
My opinion. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sisu
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 06-06-2000).]
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Thats fine.
Then bail (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If you waited to bail until you got to low to the ground, oops, you're gonna die. So, can we get word from HTC if they will address this? Especially the instances that hangtime cited, they are the worst, the guy asnt even going for a ditch but he just gets it and gets lucky (yes i have had the same thing happen, flaming fuselages surviving).
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I just haven't had that experience very often Hang... a couple of times I've mutilated someone and it amazed me that anything was left to ditch, but only when they are really low and scraping the ground when I get them. If they are more than 1K when that wings left the airplane then they smack the ground with an aweful thud.
I like the idea of a hold time for a ditch... Your plane stays on the ground for 30 seconds or something.. helpless. The amount of time it would take you to unstrap from the cockpit and run for your life... having your kill sit there on the ground for you would probably help your gunnery % a bit and stop the foolishness of seeing Goonies ditch just cause they see you coming over the hill.
Just my thoughts, delay an .ef at ditch.. maybe make a little panicking pilot run away from the aircraft before it explodes. Just for effect... :P
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Soda
The Wrecking Crew
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Karnak,
I get more ticked off at the people who ditch perfectly good aircraft when you fly near them. I'm not going to accuse anyone of doing it, I wouldn't even know who it was since I never get a kill message to know who it was. I've had it happen more times than I can count whether it be a goonie that sees me coming, a fighter that realizes he's in trouble, or a bomber that bombs the base and then runs for the ground so as not to get killed or to be able to grab a fighter faster to come back. I think that is one of the things that really sucks and is rather low. Sure, I've seen the smoking pole that you decapitated land on the ground in what could only be a act of god, but more often I've seen people ditching for silly reasons in the middle of combat.
For all the "Chute Killers Suck" posts, it's been pretty rare for me to get chute killed. It's happened, but whatever. I don't do it, only by accident or charity (the 20K ripcord pull). You get the kill when someone bails since you get the kill for the aircraft, not the pilot. Just make the ditch thing the same, leave the wreck on the ground for a timeperiod to ensure that it wasn't a cheapo ditch or a total fluke. If you've got buddies to protect you for that instant, then you get away scot free, if you are away from the action you'll have no problems, if you ditch in the middle of combat or out of an act of god, well, you may not steal the kill from someone who forced you down.
I'm sorry Karnak but when someone ditches to save their butt, that's fine, but when you ditch you'd be risking the fact that you could get strafed while on the ground before you could get away. I couldn't imagine that getting unstrapped and out of a 109 would be something that would happen 1 millisecond after you stopped. I'm not sure the 3km thing is totally fair as they'd most probably grant the kill the same way an Ack kill gets given. Of all fairness to HT and group, what other way would there realistically be to do it without some silly scoring. This way whomever forced the ditch would most likely have a chance to follow it up for the kill.
but then again, that's just my opinion and I rarely have the opportunity to ditch. Seems I have too many missing critical aircraft components to think of ditching most of the time. I'm waiting for the aircraft damage list to include parachute bail out and have nothing happen when you pull the cord... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Soda
The Wrecking Crew
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I agree with ya, Soda. Good suggestion. I also think it would be neat to have your actual body weight calculated into the game, so some of the fat guys have a harder time of climbing out of downed aircraft. (no offense, Fat Drunk Bastard Squadron, hehee)
On another matter, Ive heard that some planes are flyable with only half a wing. Im no pilot, but is this even remotely possible. I fly a 109 and if you loose half a wing, you better tuck your head between your legs and kiss your tutu goodbye.
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/jag1.jpg)
[This message has been edited by NineZ (edited 06-06-2000).]
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Soda, as I said, I think a ditched aircraft SHOULD count as a kill for the guy who forced the ditch, either by blowing the kite mostly to bits or by simply being in the area and scaring him into the ground.
I think that would solve the problems.
Sisu
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NineZ..
I have enough trouble sometimes flying with both wings still attached. Still, Hang and Zig are right, I've see it happen in the game and in recorded video on AH. Rarely, but it does... I bet the low alt kills they are referring to make it more common.
Maybe we should have an option to carry droptanks, rockets, bombs, or a spare wing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) That would solve a lot of my problems..
" it was there just a second ago... I'm sure of it, I wonder where it went? hmm... my downward vision has certainly improved though"
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Soda
The Wrecking Crew
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Leaving the plane or tank in the air or on the ground after a bail is the best solution it seems obvios. If you manage to evade and live then fine, but your rides gonna get riddled with fire. That is very realisic.
And the kill really ought to go to the last guy alive. Not the last guy to bail...
Ditching an aircraft to save the remains of the airframe is a very historically realisic motivation. Both sides rebuilt near right off airframes to new standards.
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"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM
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I've damaged many aircraft only to see them ditch and get away. About a week ago the knights were having a good battle with a group of rooks up north. In one of the fights I managed to saw the whole tail and 1/2 the right wing of a spit that had just dived on a wingman. The spit, probably going 300+ mph, managed to ditch as he was only 1k off the ground when I hit him.
A while back I posted a film of myself attempting to kill a tank with a 190. After making 4 passes (LW cannon doesn't hurt tanks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) ), I skimmed the ground and lost my engine. I was able to glide out of range of the tank and ditch. Later in the same film you see me kill the tank with a few blasts of HS cannon from a Typhoon, but I had my whole tail removed by the tank's gun. I was able to ditch this one as well. The plane was going 350 mph when I hit the ground, but I somehow managed to get it to touch down parallel to the ground. After breaking EVERYTHING off the plane, I ditched it.
LOL, I remember one night a long time ago where Pongo and I got into a fight. He was a F4u and I was a 205. After some great fighting I managed to take off his wingtip and disable his engine. Thinking he was dead I left the area. After not seeing a kill message for a long time I doubled back to see him ditch.
Later that same night I flew a p38 and had the exact same thing happen with a 109 I shot up to lawndart state.
I agree with you all, it needs to be harder to ditch AND if you aren't 3k away from the nearest enemy it counts as a kill.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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This might sound silly, but because I'm on win2000 I can't use my keyboard, so I have all my controls mapped to my joystick. One of the controls I didn't have room for is the wheel brake. So I've gotten used to a landing style where I approach until stall speed drop the plane on the landing strip and just roll out.. If the strip is too short I'll just whip my rudder around and make it ditch on one side. As long as you don't leave the strip it's a succesfull landing anyway, with or without wings.
I'd rather they'd make the entire airfield a safe landing spot and call a ditch when you break something.
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This is prolly gonna sound dweebish, but I love the ditching the way it is. I just find it pretty exciting to try and wrestle my plane in safely. If this is made any more difficult we'll have to immediately admit defeat when a wingtip is knocked off and just bail.
As it is, I often think to myself "Bail? Nah...I can do this... full left rudder.... nope.. tipping... lower throt... no no.... full throt... reverse rudder!" I usually end up dying... But I dunno... it sure is fun. Dweebery? Yah... more than likely.
But to those who pipe up on channel #1 with those "Nice ditch" comments... or think that ditching is purely to deny another pilot the kill.. well... If I didn't need to ditch, if my plane wasn't crippled - u can bet yer bellybutton I'm gonna still be trying to bring ya down. And I'll be damned if I'm either gonna float there like a balloon or auger in on your account.
All this being said... though... Yeah, the ability to safely ditch is a bit unrealistic as it stands. I just like it though. Sue me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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I dunno how planes interact with rough ground, but I do now how cars tend to look after going very fast and skidding onto a field. They usually flip and are somewhat mangled (at hi speeds). Now it would seem to be that a plane would face roughly the same challenges, only with higher speeds and less structural strength.
100mph skid off the road for a car means flipover if it hits a rock at a bad angle. 300mph aircraft should be tantamount to certain death.
Sure, it might be funny to ditch a very injured aircraft (I never do; if alierons etc aere shot down, the plane is still airworthy, if stabilizers or wingtips, my 109 goes crashing down), but it would also be amusing to have powerups (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I say increase ditch lethality and maybe connect some attribute to the ground terrain, a "ditch" multiplier if you will. Grass have a low, rocky terrain high.
Just an idea.
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StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)