Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Superfly on November 05, 2002, 03:16:03 PM
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:eek:
Article (http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/05/science.sheep.reut/index.html) of interest
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Mmmmmmm.... sheep
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Roselli believes that exposure to hormones while still in the mother's womb may affect the brain and cause differences in sexual preference, and more experiments will aim to show whether this is true.
This brings up the question of a "cure". Suppose a mother is told by a doctor that her fetus has to much of xx hormone or too little of xx hormone (which ever the case maybe) and she decides that she doesnt want a gay son (for whatever reason; grandchildren etc) so she recieves "hormone" treatment.
Gays have portrayed themselves as a minority group like blacks, hispanics, women etc.... I wonder what their response would be if through hormone treatment homosexuality could be eliminated.
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Ah.. the links you find when typing "gay sheep" into a search engine.
Texans. Out to show that horns don't necessarily disqualify you.
AKDejaVu
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Wotan, you make it sound as if homosexuality is disease that needs a cure. When these studies make is sounds as if its a perfectly natural state.
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Just thinking if I were a parent, would I want a gay kid? I think it's something I would be willing to spend some money to avoid.
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Funked, I hope you never have a gay child as well.
Edit: Now if we can just find a way to breed out the blacks and the jews. :rolleyes:
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I appreciate the thought, thanks.
If the kid had the gene for alcoholism or (if they ever find such a gene) a gene for being sociopathic or violent, I'd probably want that fixed too, if it could be done. Why allow my child to have to live with genetics which will force them to commit immoral behavior? That would be tragic. If I could do something to prevent it, I would.
It wouldn't bother me if the kid was born black or jewish though. I wouldn't be willing to shell out for a procedure to rectify that. Although the hypothetical wife would have to answer some questions about that one!
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How do you compare homosexuality to alcoholism and sociopathy?
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All are immoral behaviors. And it seems that all may have some genetic component.
The real question is how can you compare being gay with being black or jewish. That's an insult to blacks and jews.
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What's immoral about it?
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Theres nothing wrong with gay people (sure I make jokes from time to time). This is how you know Im not exactly a right winger nor a left. Shrug I guess Im totaly confused somewhere in the middle.
:)
Just my opinion, putting on my bullet flame proof flak jacket now. Gona make a run for it... LATER
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PS Just because somebody does something immoral doesn't mean I hate them. It doesn't mean that I am going to approve of their immoral behavior though.
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I'm going to go out on a limb with this one and say:
probably the same response blacks, hispanics and women would have to being eliminated.
Originally posted by Wotan
Gays have portrayed themselves as a minority group like blacks, hispanics, women etc.... I wonder what their response would be if through hormone treatment homosexuality could be eliminated.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
What's immoral about it?
Homosexuality, or alcoholism or violence or sociopathy?
If you have to ask that question, then we obviously have different morals. Not much point in discussing it in that case, I think you would agree.
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funked, how is it immoral?
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Thrawn, there is no right and wrong opinion when it comes to morals, just different beliefs. Well, except that Funked is wrong in thinking that being a meat gazer makes you immoral, but you know what I mean - Funked is gay.
SOB
PS...Canada sucks (pointless slam on canucks #2 for today :))
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Thrawn, I can tell you why it is immoral by my standards, but, I'm not sure there's any point in telling you, as I am nearly certain you will reject my definition of morality. This will then lead to a series of posts comparing our moral standards. And as I don't really care what your moral standards are (don't know you in real life, you don't vote in the US, you have no say over what I do with my hypothetical children, etc.), I don't see any point in going down that road.
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Woah! Alcoholism has absof'inlutely NOTHING to do with morals.
Is it moral to beat off? No... but that's something you CAN stop doing.
Alcoholism is closer to a disease... many can't stop even if they want to.
OTOH, Homolism just ain't right.... sticking the vein train in the doodoo chute... that just ain't supposed to happen.
You know it too.. nature tells you it's bad to be near the colon... if it didn't, it wouldn't smell like ... toejam!
-SW
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Wow yer right, funked is gay.
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No funked really, I would like to know what about your system of morals dictates that homosexuality is immoral. I'm sure you've given it thought and have a valid basis for this part of your morality system.
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Originally posted by Kanth
Wow yer right, funked is gay.
Homophobe!
SOB too!
Ban them!
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
OTOH, Homolism just ain't right.... sticking the vein train in the doodoo chute... that just ain't supposed to happen.
You know it too.. nature tells you it's bad to be near the colon... if it didn't, it wouldn't smell like ... toejam!
-SW
Looks, based on this article, that nature is telling us homosexuality is quite natural.
Because you don't want to have sex with men means that it's wrong, it just means your heterosexual.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
No funked really, I would like to know what about your system of morals dictates that homosexuality is immoral. I'm sure you've given it thought and have a valid basis for this part of your morality system.
Thrawn it's from the Bible. There is a fair amount of debate about various Bible passages and what God is trying to tell us about homosexuality. I am of the opinion that these passages pretty clearly mark homsexuality as sinful behavior of which we should not approve. I am not any kind of great Bible scholar so I'm not going to debate scripture here with you. But if you are interested in reading more about this debate, there are a wide range of internet sites on the subject, as well as published works. And you can always just go talk to a clergyman. It's their job.
PS I don't pretend to speak for all Christians here, so please don't interpret it this way. Like I said, I am not any kind of expert Bible scholar.
PPS Remember that the New Testament makes it clear that sinners can still recieve God's love and our love. I'm a sinner too.
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Okay, thanks for answering.
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"Survival of the Species is EVERYBODYS buisness"
...Darwin.
Now, ask again, and engage yer brain first; as to why being a proud homosexual is immoral.
Funked is right, his terminologly may be suspect, but he's right. "Being gay is ok" is the same as saying "alcoholisim is ok" and "sociopathic homicidal maniacs are ok".
The products of a sick society and P.C. mentality.
If homosexual behavior is gene identifiable, it's a fair target for eradication.
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Thrawn, a lot of things are "natural"...
Physical Deformities, Down Syndrome, other mental retardations, physical growth retardation (midgets), even the HIV can be passed along to the fetus....
Just because there's a chance nature will let it happen, doesn't mean it's the norm or people should happily accept it.
I don't mind gays... but I simply can NOT stand those flamboyant lispy wrist flicking studmuffins.. and I would never want my kid to turn out as the latter.
-SW
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Thrawn dont hyper analyze everything. If ya wanna reply to the question I posed, great but quit trying to "read" between lines to suit your own biased. It is getting tiring.
I have stated in other threads what I think about homosexuality. If you want to ask a specific question of me go ahead. But dont put words in my mouth.
I choose the words I did to set up the conditions I described.
Should there be a condition that occurs in the womb (hormone or otherwise) that leads to homosexuality and doctors are able to indentify and "treat" the condition to ensure a heterosexuel child what would this mean to gay rights.
Does the child have the right to be "born gay" or does the mother or the parents have the right to determin the sexual preferences of their children.
It kinda relates to "choice" and "abortion". You have claimed the child has no right until its born.
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The thing is there is nothing physically wrong with homosexuals, and remember they do come in two sexes. Homosexuality itself doesn't hurt anyone, so why try and eradicate it?
And don't sterotype all homosexuals based on those that like flaming out. There are plenty of gay guys that don't.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
"Survival of the Species is EVERYBODYS buisness"
...Darwin.
Now, ask again, and engage yer brain first; as to why being a proud homosexual is immoral.
Funked is right, his terminologly may be suspect, but he's right. "Being gay is ok" is the same as saying "alcoholisim is ok" and "sociopathic homicidal maniacs are ok".
The products of a sick society and P.C. mentality.
If homosexual behavior is gene identifiable, it's a fair target for eradication.
Hang there are some who have theorized that homosexuality might be some sort of population control mechanism that has kicked in to save us from ourselves. And how can you be sure that homosexuals would have been good parents if they had turned out to be "breeders". Maybe they would be more likely to raise individuals who were less "evolutionarily fit".
So I'm not sure you can make an argument against homosexuality on evolutionary grounds. It might end up being beneficial to the survival of the species in the long run.
And there are also many things which might be beneficial to the survival of our species which are most definitely immoral (at least by my standards) like sterilizing the poor and retarded, euthanizing the elderly, etc.
So I don't think you have a real strong case. :)
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How is it that only 1 fdb has posted in a gay sheep thread?
Damn... I thought they'd even be mentioned in the article.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Thrawn
And don't sterotype all homosexuals based on those that like flaming out.
No one is, but your desire to be the homo-evangelist caused you to think that people are stereotyping.
-SW
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Originally posted by Wotan
Should there be a condition that occurs in the womb (hormone or otherwise) that leads to homosexuality and doctors are able to indentify and "treat" the condition to ensure a heterosexuel child what would this mean to gay rights.
Not much? And just because parents might chose for heterosexuality doesn't mean all will. Gays just want the same rights the rest of us have.
Swulfe, you're right, my apologies.
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Thrawn I'm not sure if I would support such a gay-eradication program. If it were my child I know what I would choose for him or her if it were in my power, but that's different from me choosing for YOUR child.
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Understood, funked.
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Thrawn
is incest imoral?
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Funked, does the bible say if it's sodomy that's immoral or homosexuals?
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Thrawn, this site (http://www.godhatesstudmuffins.com/memorial.html) should help to explain the problem with gays.
SW - Had you not typed in that you really just hated the flamboyant attitude of some homosexuals, it was pretty clear that you just hated anyone that was gay. Also, if it's just the flamboyant ones that you hate, then you really have no problem with homosexuals, just with Flamboyant nancy boys.
SOB
...headed over to the FDB Gay Sheep Barn right now! Who needs to discuss them when you can get "hands on" experience! Yeeeehaaawwwww!
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Originally posted by Pongo
Thrawn
is incest imoral?
In my opinion, not if it's between two consenting adults. I don't see why it would be any of my business, if no ones getting hurt than who cares?
Beautiful SOB, beautiful.
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Funked.. I have historical evidence that homosexuality IS detrimental to survival.
Sparta.
There exists no evidence that I am aware of that homosexual behavior in apes, pre-humans, subhumans, neanderthals, etc was either tolerated or encouraged in survival oriented societies..
It IS in fact a great nuisance to our modern society.. in terms of the general health of our species it's toll has been immense. In terms of 'population control', thoughout history wars, famine, climate changes etc have all played a far more significant role in keeping our numbers down than buggery ever did.
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"Funked, does the bible say if it's sodomy that's immoral or homosexuals?"
I don't think there's any real clear statement like that.
Generally in the Old Testament if you sinned, you were screwed.
In the New Testament, sin is still a bad thing, but you can be redeemed through Christ.
One thing that is made clear is that people are sinful by nature, and this separates us from God. So the answer might be that homosexuals (as well as all the rest of us sinners) are immoral by nature.
I bet Ammo, or Worr could answer this better than I.
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Gotcha, thanks again for the info.
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From listening to a lot of details of sexual abuse cases, I would say there is a pretty strong correlation between incest and major sexual abuse and mental disturbance. This is just anectdotal of course.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Gotcha, thanks again for the info.
NP sir, thx for listening.
Wanna come to my Bible study?
(j/k, imitating some guys I knew in college)
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:D
As far as what you said about incest, no doubt about it. That's why I put that "concenting adults" provisor in.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
:D
As far as what you said about incest, no doubt about it. That's why I put that "concenting adults" provisor in.
Yeah I doubt having a shag with one's cousin is going to result in serious damage.
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I don't hate gays.. I prefer to not spend my time with 'em... I DO,however, hate the flamboyant ones...
For the non-flamboyant ones, I would prefer to not know... but I don't expect a charade either.
I still don't think it's "right"... but then again, I've known guys who've gone up girl's tail pipes.. same applies, I don't think that's right either..
but it does create a market for them KY mfgs!
-SW
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Originally posted by Thrawn
The thing is there is nothing physically wrong with homosexuals, and remember they do come in two sexes.
I'm not sure that I totally agree with the first part of your sentence.
Think of a world without gay people...
Why, then we wouldn't be able to watch two sexy girls go at each other in porns. :p
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Gays just want the same rights the rest of us have.
They do have exactly same rights.
Neither I nor a gay person can marry a same sex person.
Both I and a gay person can marry an opposite sex person of their choosing.
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Where is Animal?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
In my opinion, not if it's between two consenting adults. I don't see why it would be any of my business, if no ones getting hurt than who cares?
Beautiful SOB, beautiful.
really..what about the kids?
"Incest children have high
risk of diseases and conditions that may be harmful since the genes they
are working with are not different enough to off-set these conditions. One
receives one set of chromosomes from each parent and when the parents have
similar genes, the recessive genes that are mutated or genes that represent
bad qualities may be paired with the exact same gene, causing that trait to
be evident."
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Originally posted by mietla
Where is Animal?
Studying sheep :)
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Hey man Gay Sheep are ok by me!
cos it means...
... more Ewes for me!
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Originally posted by Pongo
really..what about the kids?
Last I checked, it was still possible to engage in sexual activity without producing a child.
Maybe there's a new rule.
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If this article is saying that gays are a natural product of genes and chromosomes and science and all the rest of the stuff I never paid attention to in school.... then I don't see how morality can even enter the picture. It's no longer a decision between "righteosness" and "sin"... it just is. You're applying a belief system on a naturally occuring phenomenon.
Further, to try and eradicate those genes or chromosomes, it seems to me that you would be diddlying with God's work.
(if that article has any merit.... just scanned it).
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I'm not a phobe!! they dressed me up like this!
Originally posted by funkedup
Homophobe!
SOB too!
Ban them!
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Originally posted by mietla
Where is Animal?
I dont know any homosexuals personally (except maybe for the Funked and SOB couple) and listened to what they have to say yet so I'm gonna stay away from this subject rather than make ignorant arguements based on opinion.
BUT, here is a tidbit of my take on homosexuality
I do not believe homosexuality is inmoral. My morals pretty much state that if you are not hurting or harming anybody in some way, go ahead and do whatever you want.
However, homosexuality is UNNATURAL, and thats how it difers from being a woman, a black, a hispanic, etc. They are going against nature.
I have worked with gays and interacted with them in diferent enviroments and so far I have not found a reason to fear or hate them. They are generally normal people who want to go with their days without any trouble.
Some men's dislike for homosexuals borders on homophobia and it seems as if they feel threatned. I strongly believe all gay hating homophobes have repressed homosexual feelings inside that they are afraid a gay man will come and unleash their true self.
Like in the movie American Beauty.
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CMERE AND GIMME A KISS ANIMAL!!!
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Is that a Hot Wheels toy in your butt?!
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Oh, and going back to the original topic, I'm with Funked on this one.
If homosexuality was a purely genetical mutation, and I had the choice, I would make sure my kids were born straight.
Thrawn, I dont see anything wrong with this. Its not as if my son is gonna come up to me after his 40th birthday, happily married with a beautiful family, to tell me he hates me because I took his homosexuality away from him. ;)
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:D
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:rolleyes: Man, I posted the link to the article because I thought it was funny that there were gay sheep. This thread will be coming to a lock soon.... :rolleyes:
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Animal, if homosexuality happens in NATURE, NATUALLY then how the hell is it UNNATURAL??
My grandfather was black, I can't wait for the gene for negro to be found so I can guarantee the my next child isn't born black. I mean what's going to do when he's a 40 year old white guy? Complain that he wasn't black.
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY
:rolleyes: Man, I posted the link to the article because I thought it was funny that there were gay sheep. This thread will be coming to a lock soon.... :rolleyes:
Tried to keep it light... quite unsuccessfully.
I still think you stumbled across this article trying to disprove the old joke about texans by typing "horns" and "gay" into a search engine.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Animal, if homosexuality happens in NATURE, NATUALLY then how the hell is it UNNATURAL??
My grandfather was black, I can't wait for the gene for negro to be found so I can guarantee the my next child isn't born black. I mean what's going to do when he's a 40 year old white guy? Complain that he wasn't black.
He will be able to have his own children as a black man.
As an full-on homosexual, thats simply imposible.
Thats enough reason for me.
By the way, with your "it happens in nature" argument anything can be considered natural. Including cars, planes, clones, etc.
You can have your gay kids though if you want. I'm not gonna discriminate against them ;)
I just think it would be nice to have grandchildren.
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY
:rolleyes: Man, I posted the link to the article because I thought it was funny that there were gay sheep. This thread will be coming to a lock soon.... :rolleyes:
Well, I wasted MY time reading this thread because I thought you were going to talk about adding more detail to the sheep in AH. Whatever, you shoulda known the FDBs would be all over this Thread like bugs on a light.
The larger issue is if the gay sheep can be deprogrammed and go on to sire many lambs and be productive members of the sheep community. Otherwise they're good for little more than skanky wool and mutton a straight man would refuse to eat.
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Cancer happens in nature too. Do we just ignore it?
You might say that AIDS happend in nature...
do we ignore that.
midnight. incest means copulation. Unless they have had their plumbing torn out that means chances for babies.
Our societies morals evolved to make it imoral becuase of the observed effects of the incest.
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Homosexuality, unlike cancer doesn't kill anyone.
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Homosexuality, unlike cancer doesn't kill anyone.
This reminds me of the anti-gun debate.... Should we ban SEX because it kills? :)
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Originally posted by Animal
Is that a Hot Wheels toy in your butt?!
No, it's a bottle rocket. Here, tie it to your...
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Animal, if homosexuality happens in NATURE, NATUALLY then how the hell is it UNNATURAL??
Perhaps we are confusing the definition of "naturally".
Maybe the sentence should read "Homosexuality happens in nature and is an anomoly".
Accidents happen in nature. Just because it happens naturally doesn't mean that it can't be wrong.
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Sirloin that pic is WRONG!!! LOL!!!
PS Where did you get it? :)
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damn funked...
since you can get the pic by clicking "save picture as..." I can only assume that you're asking what wonderful website he get to pic from so you can visit it. ;)
AKDejaVu
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Actual the URL is listed on the pic. My question was intended for entertainment purposes only. I already have enough inter-species porn, thank you!
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Originally posted by Drunky
Perhaps we are confusing the definition of "naturally".
Maybe the sentence should read "Homosexuality happens in nature and is an anomoly".
Accidents happen in nature. Just because it happens naturally doesn't mean that it can't be wrong.
Anomily? Yes. Not the norm? Sure.
But it's on hell of persistant genetic trait that goes across many specise and doesn't seem to be bread out through evolution. I wonder why that is?
Besides, someone being a homosexual doesn't hurt anyone.
Why are people try so hard to prove it's unnatural?
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Ya thrawn..thats what the Neandrathrals said too. "It doensnt hurt anyone.." "If the gods didnt want us to do this, they wouldnt have made the parts fit that way" "What happens in mans cave is his own business".
And look what it got them...they all live in Quebec now.
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I brought the question and quoted the article. No where does it say "genetic trait". At the end of the article it refers to hormones being a possible factor in sexual preference.
If this is discovered to be true then one can envision a "hormone treatment" to ensure a heterosexual child.
I can imagine parents agreeing to "treatment". I can imagine looking at the studies that show that "gay" people are far from happy. That drug abuse and mental health issues are far more likely in homosexuals. Also the increase likelyhood of disease and the want of grandchildren will move many couples to except treatment.
I can imagine the "gay community" throwing a fit about not giving the child a choice.
Whether you want to call homosexuality "natural" or not it makes little difference if it can be treated in the womb with hormones.
Race is determined by more then "hormones". Genetic manipulation is a completely different issue.
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Baaaa....men are often homophobic because in the "sexual" sense man is the dominate sex. By this I mean in terms of strength, edur etc. This gives him control over the situation, to a point anyway.
When one guy has sex w/a guy..one must be submissive. This is un-natural for most males.
xBAT
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Also... I could careless if your gay. Here's a story.
I was in Korea. Had me a NCO..this guy was squared away and very profesional. He took care of us and worked like a dog w/us. We noticed he'd NEVER take a shower w/us or be seen nude. He was at times "slightly" effiminate in his mannerisms as well. We more or less fiqured out he was gay. Guess what? As a bunch of grunts..yes grunts... we couldnt of cared less. He was a soldier and a damn good one. After I left he got booted for admiting to some moron he was gay.
No..I dont/did not desire gays in the miltary. I simply learned to respect him as an indiv rather than some gay tard. It was a lesson learned.
xBAT
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homosexuality doesnt really bother me, I am friends with a few lesbians from my previous job, and had gay friends when I was in college.
What I think is unatural so to speak in anal sex whether gay or straight. EXIT ONLY.
Incest consenting adults would probably weird me out, but that has just been my upbringing.
Oh and never have unattractive lesbians set you up on a blind date TRUST ME.
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Wotan, I have not addressed your issue directly yet, my apologies for my tardiness in this matter. I understand that your point doesn't directly deal with the naturalism of homosexuality, wether that deals with natually occuring hormones or not.
There was a city in a middle-eastern country, I do not recall which, that had a problem with men accosting women in the streets, there were some rapes. The solution that the government had to this problem was to impose a curfew on the women. The womens reponse was, "WTF? Why are our freedoms being imposed on, we are the victims. The men are the problem put them under curfew?
The same applies to homosexuals. The are more likely to commit suicide, be drug users and have mental problems (depression etc.). Because a large segment of society discrimates against them and generally treats them like toejam.
Why use treatments to change them? Find the genes that predisposes someone to be an intolerant, mean spirited jerk and change them instead (although I really don't agree with that either).
And then end of the day I'm sure the technology to guarantee that you child will be straight will exist. And although it will be probably within the rights of the parents to use it, not all parents will so there will probably always be gay people.
The next question is if you don't want gayness, what about shortness, or what have you. I personally like diversity in the human genetic and phenotypes. It make life more interesting in my books.