Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mietla on November 06, 2002, 06:25:19 PM
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... yet another democrat attempt to muck with elections by letting illegals vote fails
CA Proposition 52 goes down.
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Why in gods name would you let a non citizen vote in an election?? :confused:
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Even I voted against that one.
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to win perhaps?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Even I voted against that one.
MT. There is some decency and common sense still left in this world.
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Did you even read the proposition or are you just listening to the talking heads?
http://www.smartvoter.org/2002/11/05/ca/state/prop/52/
Summary:
Allows persons who are legally eligible to vote and have valid identification to register to vote on election day at their polling place. Increases criminal penalty for voter and voter registration fraud. Makes conspiracy to commit voter fraud a crime. Requires trained staff at polling places to manage election day registration. Creates fund to implement measure, including training and providing personnel for election day registration. Allows persons to register or re-register during 28 days preceding election day at their local elections office. Provides more time to county election officials to prepare voter registration lists.
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yeah right. A bank deposit slip and a phone bill makes you a Citizen now :(
(b) For purposes of this section, proof of current residence for a voter attempting to vote at the polling place at which he or she is entitled to vote based on his or her current residence address shall consist of:
(1) A current, valid California driver’s license or California identification card that includes the name and current residence address of the voter; or
(2) Any two documents from the categories listed below, except that no more than one document per category listed in subparagraphs (L) and (M) shall be used, both of which shall contain the name and current residence address of the voter:
(A) Military identification.
(B) College or university fee card or student identification.
(C) Lease agreement.
(D) Mortgage statement.
(E) Property tax statement.
(F) Income tax return.
(G) Utility bill.
(H) Credit card bill.
(I) Bank statement.
(J) Preprinted check or bank deposit slip.
(K) Vehicle registration.
(L) Mail addressed to the voter at his or her current residence address.
(M) Sworn written statement given in the presence of a poll worker at the polling place from a registered voter in the precinct stating that he or she knows and can identify the person who is attempting to vote, and attesting to the name and residence address of the person attempting to vote.
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Read this:
http://voterguide.ss.ca.gov/propositions2.asp?id=322&sID=3
Proposition 52 makes it easier for CRIMINALS, DISHONEST POLITICIANS and NON-CITIZENS to commit ELECTION FRAUD.
That’s why District Attorneys, Sheriffs, Cops, and Elections Officials across California urge you to VOTE NO on 52.
Prop. 52 appears well intentioned, until you read the fine print. This poorly drafted measure is full of LOOPHOLES and HIDDEN AGENDAS that will lead to MASSIVE ELECTION FRAUD in California. It’s a classic example of a cure that is worse than the disease.
PROP. 52 DOES NOT REQUIRE PHOTO IDENTIFICATION. California already has one of the most liberal elections laws in the nation. Registration forms are widely available and county elections officials have only 15 days to check for fraud and prepare voter rolls. But under Prop. 52, a person could register and cast a ballot on Election Day with “identification” that is nothing more than any piece of mail addressed to them and a student lease agreement, credit card bill, or other unofficial identification. No photo ID would be required.
If Proposition 52 passes, elections officials will have no way of knowing if the person suddenly registering on Election Day is entitled to vote, or, for that matter, even a citizen of the United States. And they will have no time to check the validity of the registration before the ballot is cast.
PROP. 52 MAKES IT VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DETECT FRAUD AND OVERTURN ELECTIONS WON WITH PHONY VOTES. Under Prop. 52, ballots cast by those registering on Election Day will be mixed together with all other ballots. There will be no way for law enforcement and elections officials to go back after Election Day and determine if an election was won by fraud. The penalties against election fraud contained in Prop. 52 are useless, because the measure makes it impossible to ever prove the crime!
District Attorneys, Sheriffs, Cops and Elections Officials OPPOSE Prop. 52. So do Republicans, Democrats, Labor and Taxpayer Groups.
Working Californians OPPOSE Prop. 52. Our right to have our vote counted in fair elections will no longer exist in California if this measure passes.
Forty-four other states wisely do not allow Election Day registration.
The six small states with laws similar to Prop. 52 are not like California. Our state is too big, and the potential for abuse too high, to enact a law that makes it easier to commit fraud.
In a typical election, almost half of legally registered voters choose not to vote. Making it easier for FELONS, NONCITIZENS AND OTHERS NOT QUALIFIED TO VOTE TO COMMIT FRAUD, will not solve the problem of low turn out.
In the wake of the controversy and chaos surrounding the 2000 Election in Florida, other states are looking to improve election laws and crack down on vote fraud. California must not go in the other direction by opening the door to fraud and election abuse
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Did you show an ID before you voted?
I didn't. In fact I can't remember the last time (if ever) that I was asked to prove my identity before grabbing my ballots and casting my votes.
Prop-52 would have made a valid ID a requirement to register on election day.
EDIT: I've read it Grunherz... it's straight off the state election info. It's just the argument against. There is an arguement for and rebuttals for each.
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Where does it say anything about criminals or illegal immigrants? :confused:
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This is verbatim from the actual text of the law...
http://voterguide.ss.ca.gov/propositions2.asp?id=322&sID=4
b) For purposes of this section, proof of current residence for a voter attempting to vote at the polling place at which he or she is entitled to vote based on his or her current residence address shall consist of:
(1) A current, valid California driver’s license or California identification card that includes the name and current residence address of the voter; or
(2) Any two documents from the categories listed below, except that no more than one document per category listed in subparagraphs (L) and (M) shall be used, both of which shall contain the name and current residence address of the voter:
(A) Military identification.
(B) College or university fee card or student identification.
(C) Lease agreement.
(D) Mortgage statement.
(E) Property tax statement.
(F) Income tax return.
(G) Utility bill.
(H) Credit card bill.
(I) Bank statement.
(J) Preprinted check or bank deposit slip.
(K) Vehicle registration.
(L) Mail addressed to the voter at his or her current residence address.
(M) Sworn written statement given in the presence of a poll worker at the polling place from a registered voter in the precinct stating that he or she knows and can identify the person who is attempting to vote, and attesting to the name and residence address of the person attempting to vote.
So no actual picture ID like a drivers license is required at all, its one of the many very generous liberal ID options...
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"Prop-52 would have made a valid ID a requirement to register on election day."
Which would eliminate a significant portion of the poor and disenfranchised voters.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
"Prop-52 would have made a valid ID a requirement to register on election day."
Which would eliminate a significant portion of the poor and disenfranchised voters.
They are all ready eliminated if they haven't registered two weeks prior.
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Read the actual text of the law, no picture ID of any type is required at all under that scheme.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Prop-52 would have made a valid ID a requirement to register on election day..
What does ID have to do with the proof of citizenship.
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Just a driver's a California Drivers License? Do you have to be a citizen to get one?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Just a driver's a California Drivers License? Do you have to be a citizen to get one?
no, that's the point. A bank deposit slip and a phone bill makes you an instant Citizen.
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Originally posted by mietla
What does ID have to do with the proof of citizenship.
Not much, I agree, but I don't recall proving my citizenship before I was allowed to register.
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No you don't need to be a US citizen to get a CA drivers license.
And again a drivers license or any sort of solid picture ID is not even required under this law...
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No argument from me Grun. The ID requirements were a bit dicey at best.
BUT.. it would have made voter fraud a felony.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
BUT.. it would have made voter fraud a felony.
So what? It will be practically undetectable and bet you a dollar that they will NEVER enforce it.
Besides, by the time the fraud is discovered the elections are over.
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Makes me wonder why they didn't drop the id thing and keep the fraud bit...unless they were trying to slide in the id thing because all those new voters would vote dem?
Pretty toejamty thing to do if that was the case.
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I bet that was it Thrawn. I dont wanna come off sounding like a jerk but the reality in Califrionia is that this was prolly meant to get undocumented migrant mexican farmworkers and other illegal immigrants to vote, and I give you three guesses as to which way the UFW and other such organizations would encourage them to vote. Pretty dirty trick if you ask me, I'm glad it failed and im even more glad that we on both sides here seem to agree on the questinable nature of this proposition. :D
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The truth of it is registration is already ridiculously easy.
I don't see 52 as increasing the chances of voter fraud any more than the current system.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
The truth of it is registration is already ridiculously easy.
Agree, and we shouuld make it more difficult to register illegals
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C'mon, Sandman, you know darn well what group of potential voters was being recruited, and you know perfectly well how the majority would have voted. You're a smart guy, and the attempt is pretty transparent.
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The name of every politician who promoted this blatant attempt to subvert national sovereignty should be published for the voters, so they will know who to vote against next time around.
As it is, these dirtbags are free to continue their selfish political careers without fear of paying any price. If this scam is ever discussed in the future, the dirtbags will just claim they were trying to help the poor and downtrodden to vote. Bless their hearts.
ra
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Did you show an ID before you voted?
I didn't. In fact I can't remember the last time (if ever) that I was asked to prove my identity before grabbing my ballots and casting my votes.
Prop-52 would have made a valid ID a requirement to register on election day.
EDIT: I've read it Grunherz... it's straight off the state election info. It's just the argument against. There is an arguement for and rebuttals for each.
Every time I have voted I have been prompted for identification, and I was in uniform at the time.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
"Prop-52 would have made a valid ID a requirement to register on election day."
Which would eliminate a significant portion of the poor and disenfranchised voters.
Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeetch it out there libby :)
Anyone too poor to afford a valid ID? Gimme a friggin break.
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Originally posted by Kieran
C'mon, Sandman, you know darn well what group of potential voters was being recruited, and you know perfectly well how the majority would have voted. You're a smart guy, and the attempt is pretty transparent.
Kieran, exactly- the vote was a backlash against Hispanic people. I voted for Prop. 52 because I think everybody should have a say in what effects them whether they're citizens or not. Migrant workers pay taxes, earn less and work harder than most people do, so why not let them vote? It's too bad Prop. 52 was voted down.
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What difference does it make anyways? It's not like California will ever vote anything but liberal. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Airhead
I think everybody should have a say in what effects them (ie: vote right?) whether they're citizens or not.
This is without doubt THE most irresponsible and uneducated statement I have ever heard in any serious "politicly charged" conversation, in any form of communication... that I have ever heard.
How about we just let everyone around the world have a vote in how we run our country Airhead?
Hmmm... lets bus in all the Al-Queda sympathizers, the marxists/communists, the Euro-U.S. haters, anyone who hates the U.S., has no loyalty or idea of what our country is. HEY!!.. I bet the Chinese would just LOVE to have a vote! F-it... lets just send the whole world an absentee ballot!
How absolutely, mind numbingly ridiculous! (your name truly fits!)
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Originally posted by Airhead
Kieran, exactly- the vote was a backlash against Hispanic people. I voted for Prop. 52 because I think everybody should have a say in what effects them whether they're citizens or not. Migrant workers pay taxes, earn less and work harder than most people do, so why not let them vote? It's too bad Prop. 52 was voted down.
Are you kidding? Well cripes! Where's my vote? As the US's largest trading partner, I'm sure that any federal vote surely affects me.
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Originally posted by mietla
... yet another democrat attempt to muck with elections by letting illegals vote fails
They can vote if they want to in CA, the registrar does not check if voters are citizens or not.
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I voted for Prop. 52 because I think everybody should have a say in what effects them whether they're citizens or not.
LOL I can see it now absentee ballots from around the world voting what president or government they'd like to see take over.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Kieran, exactly- the vote was a backlash against Hispanic people. I voted for Prop. 52 because I think everybody should have a say in what effects them whether they're citizens or not. Migrant workers pay taxes, earn less and work harder than most people do, so why not let them vote? It's too bad Prop. 52 was voted down.
kidding right?