Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: RightF00T on November 07, 2002, 06:56:08 PM

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: RightF00T on November 07, 2002, 06:56:08 PM

     I hate to outfly an opponent then when it's time to shoot, miss and either get shot down or the resulting melee results in you low and slow on the deck with 2 La7s and their mamas crawling up your tailpipe. :mad:

     Are there any gunnery exercises/articles I can do to improve my hit %.  Its getting to the point where I'm missing B17s at 0 degree deflection at 100yds.  

Please help if not for me but as a basis for others struggling to put their lead in the right place...:cool:

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: J_A_B on November 07, 2002, 07:07:20 PM

The offline drones are good for gunnery practice.  You can attack them from different angles to simulate different conditions.

J_A_B

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Montezuma on November 07, 2002, 07:11:00 PM

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
The offline drones are good for gunnery practice.  You can attack them from different angles to simulate different conditions.

J_A_B

You can also set your ammo to 10X normal offline, so you don't have to keep getting a new plane.

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Soulyss on November 07, 2002, 08:35:08 PM

ONe thing that others have recommended to me (but so far been to chicken to try out online) is to turn tracers OFF.  At first of course you're gonna hit things even less often but after awhile (or so the theory goes) you begin to learn where to put the pipper to get a hit.  I can't vouch for the validity of this theory but I know some people swear by it, and the reasoning seems sound enough. :)

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Blank on November 08, 2002, 09:17:59 AM

ok I find if I cop and change gunsights it screws up my aim, its nice for the immersion to have RL sights in each plane but if you fly alot of different ones make them all the same.

I used to practice shooting down those drones alot, from dead 6, snap shots, HO's the lot.

I am now happy with where to aim and I fly with tracers off as I find it helps, especially on those sneaky low 6 attacks as they never see what hit them, no tracers flying by to warn them :)

(262 with those potatoe guns though tracers on, or i cant hit chit)

Also if you set your convergence so that for example at 300yards all rounds meet at centre of target irrespective of whether they are 13mm or 30mm (ex 109 g-10, nose set to 600, other guns at 300), you can start fireing with the mg to help with aim and once hit sprites are seen, open up with 30mm = BOOM and less 30mm waste.

hope this helps a bit :)

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: cobra427 on November 08, 2002, 09:55:43 AM

find or make a sight that fits your needs get a buddy and do a H2H game take turns on the offensive and you will get better thats what i did

Title: RightFOOT I know ur problem...
Post by: HeLLcAt on November 08, 2002, 06:53:06 PM

You just have to get the feel for the right amount of lead. This takes experience obviously. I have flown with tracers off JUST in .50 cal planes because I like the other players not knowing when I am about to shoot and the .50's shoot fairly straight. I use tracers for German, Japenese, Russian, Italian, and British aircraft because most of their bullets DO NOT go as straight as the .50's do in the American planes. How I learned how to shoot is this; for 15 minutes offline, tracers off (in .50's planes), before I went to bed I just shot the drones down and I simulated different angles, turning lead shots, 9 oclock pos., 3 oclock pos. shots and you get a feel for the lead and online EVERYTHING changes, you can kill planes that you would think that you would NEVER have the angle before to kill them. I have a whole list of different things you could do to test yourself, so email me at lmpbzktsk82004@yahoo.com for some of them.

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 08, 2002, 07:20:43 PM

The best way to improve your gunnery skills is to turn off your tracers and fly offline for a few hours shooting at the drones.  When you feel comfortable enough, go to the MA.  It will take about a week for you to get used to having tracers off but the pay off is worth it.  

When I still had tracers on, my hit % was a terrible 2% and now that I have them off, my hit %  is around 9% now.  It would be higher but I strafe a lot of ground targets in fighter mode and that puts a major hit on your hit%


Ack-Ack

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: guttboy on November 16, 2002, 12:58:29 AM

Just a simple question......just how are the % computed?  Also, if you randomly dump ord when upping and then deciding not to use it does this effect your scoring or %?  Does this then in turn effect your ranking?  

I have never quite understood this and would love the answer!

Thanks guys

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Tyro48 on November 16, 2002, 05:20:51 AM

First offline head due N. If you have set your convergence to say 400 yard then while your flying N open the text buffer and type .target 400 and see if your rounds are landing where you want them to ,also let your plane attain max level speed before you start firing. You can go to http://www.simhq.com combat corner and read Andy Bush's articles on deflection shooting, what kind of lead you need for different AOA etc. a lot to learn there about alotta things.

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MaddogJoe on November 16, 2002, 08:34:54 AM

simhq's article was very good, but a bit confusing, So I put together an easier explaination on the Mafias site. check it out by going to the Mafia Site (http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/index.html) , click on the Aces High Info link then on Air to Air Targetting.

Maddog Joe

(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MutleyBR on November 18, 2002, 11:55:50 AM

Hi RightFOOT!
The best advices i've seen for improving gunnery are:
1) Get a good deflection sight and learn how to use it. I use a custom made sight with deflection marks, HO reference, straffing reference and JABO reference; here's mine, whit it i sometimes get a 900/1000 yards hit on a steady target.... If you need further explanation on how to use it, just let me know and i'll post it here...
(http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/Mutley.bmp)

2) Offline click on "setup", "arena settings" there you'll find many parameters to change. There's one called "gun ammo multiplier", click on it and slide te control to the maximum(10x). This way, when u fly offline you get 2400 cannon rounds for a Spit IX. You can train a lot without having to rearm often.
(http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/Plane Gun Ammo Multiplier.jpg)
3) For JABO training in teh same "arena settings" change "Protect Objects" to off(zero). This way you take off from any base and you can bomb or straffe your own base. It saves you the time you have to loose flying to an enemy base. And you don't get ack fire to interfere with your training.

(http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/Protect Objects.jpg)

Hope this helps and don't have you on my 6 after this! :)

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MaddogJoe on November 18, 2002, 03:22:55 PM

I wish the site was there, always like checking out new sites  :(

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: guttboy on November 19, 2002, 01:15:39 AM

Mutley,
Could you please explain your gunsight?  I am not sure on how to use it and would like to use it if it helps.

Thanks in advance!:)

Title: Insight on my sight.....
Post by: MutleyBR on November 19, 2002, 11:28:22 AM

Hi Guttboy!
First go to previous posting, right-click my sight image and choose save, saving it to your ..\Aces High\sights\  folder. I f you want to change it, just load it in a bitmap editor (I use JASC's Paint Shop Pro) and design your own. Just don't chage the color palette for it may not work in AH and show as a black square, for example.
Once loade in AH, go to setup menu, gunsights, click on the  plane you want to use(let's say, P-51D), then click on Mutley.bmp then click on "Set P-51D position P to Mutley.bmp". In this menu there is a slider that controls gunsight "Alpha"(transparency) set it to your liking. I use about 3/4 up. See pic below.
(http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/Alpha control.jpg)
The next picture is self-explantory
(http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/Mutley sight ref.jpg)

This is how it should look for a good deflection shot.....

(http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/almost ideal.jpg)

And here a no go shot.......

(http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/No way.jpg)

For JABO bombing, just do your dive and place target under the lower "stairs" and drop your bombs or rockets. For rockets i usually salvo them for half the total. In Typhoon, for example(8 rockets) I set salvo to 4(nice against GV's).
For shooting distant planes,  900 yards, for example, aim using central (straffing) area and rock the nose up/down a little until you see hit sprites...
Sorry for the size of this..... Finishes on next posting......

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MutleyBR on November 19, 2002, 11:39:49 AM

Continuation from previous post.....
Ah, don't forget that sometimes in turns, planes get under your nose, out of sight but you may still hit them... Just send short burst and check for hit sprites... They show through your panel...
take a look at this... This is one of the reasons I fly with tracers off, it's easier to check for hit sprites..

(http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/under the nose.jpg)

Now, install the sight, set "plane gun ammo mult to 10x" and "protect objects off", as explained previously, and go do some target shooting offline, than please tell me what results you got.....
Take care all!!! Hope it helps...

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: tailgunr on November 19, 2002, 12:01:34 PM

Can't beleive no one has mentioned the .target command :)

get into your text box and type .target XXX
XXX= your yards from target

then look north of your position and you should see a virtual target where online or offline and you can shoot at it

as soon as the bullseye is knocked out it puts up a new target.

If you wanna see the target up close hit .target 50 and you can see where you're hitting.

Also when you in Z in game you zoom into gun site.  But if you use the [ ] keys you can zoom in even closer.

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MutleyBR on November 19, 2002, 12:34:10 PM

Nice one Tailgunr!
This ".target xxx" command was voodoo for me... Went offline and used it. Found it real nice for calibrating gunsight for different planes, weapons, convergence, etc..
Using zoom you can check if your shots are falling too lo, hi, bullet spread, etc...
But what I miss most for offline training is some "Artificial Inteligence" opponents to dogfight.... The way it is I feel like plinking cans in the backyard with a BB gun...
Thanks for sharing!!!

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MaddogJoe on November 19, 2002, 03:09:54 PM

can anyone explain why I don't get mutlys pictures? All I get is the box with the "x" in it for a picture the server can't find. I have no trouble with any other pictures that are posted in the BBs.

Also can you explain how you adjust a site useing the .target command? I can hit any point on the target, but don't know what ya'll mean be adjusting. Thanks

Maddog Joe

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: tailgunr on November 19, 2002, 03:44:16 PM

Alright you know when you hit z on the keyboard and it gets you closer to gun site? well while in that mode you can use the  [ ] keys to zoom in or out.  Also you sue these keys if you're in a buff in bombsite to zoom in even closer to target: )

As for the .target xxx
* hit / while in game and bring up the text box
*then type .target XXX (XXX represents yards so make it like 340 or 650 or whatever)
*then if you look north there whould be a virtual target in front of you
* get yoru plane faced north and shoot at it
* if you want to see where you were hitting you can type .target 50 to get the target up close to 50 yards so you see where you where hitting or you can just zoom in with the [ ] keys.
* when you are finished you can get rid of the target by hitting .target 0


Also the target comes in handy so you get a graphic illustration of what convergence does.

If you don't know how to set convergence you can go into hanger and at the very top of the clipboard there will be a button that says "set convergence" click on it and you will see colored liens extending from the plane you can put them as far out as 650 yards.  

Bascily the convergence is where all the bullets meet.  So if you set your convergence to 650 and yoru target is 250 out you will probably be hitting wings instead of the fuselage.  But if the target is out at 650 you will have all yoru guns hitting the fuselage that is if your'e aiming at fuselage :)

For planes with 6 50 cals i have 4 of the 50 cals set for about 500 and 2 set for 300.  For the 20mm's if there's only 2 i have them set for 450 if there are 4 20mm's on my plane i set 2 of them for 450 and the other 2 for 250.

People have there own prefernaces as to what they like their convergences set at.  So the best way to find out what you like them being set at is to mess around with them :)

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MutleyBR on November 19, 2002, 04:19:03 PM

Quote

Originally posted by MaddogJoe
can anyone explain why I don't get mutlys pictures? All I get is the box with the "x" in it for a picture the server can't find. I have no trouble with any other pictures that are posted in the BBs.

Also can you explain how you adjust a site useing the .target command? I can hit any point on the target, but don't know what ya'll mean be adjusting. Thanks

Maddog Joe

Hi Maddog Joe!
Go to user CP, buttton on top of this page,  then click on "edit options", and make sure that under "thread view options" you have "Show image attachments and [img] code in Posts?" marked as "yes". If you still can't see them, I can e-mail them to you.
As to "calibrating sight" it is in reality, "adjusting shooting". In other words, if you chose a specificic sight and convergence and shoot at target placed at 400 yards and see that your shots are falling too lo, aim proportionately higher until you get bullseye..... that's it....
Take care!

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MaddogJoe on November 19, 2002, 05:33:12 PM

Ya Mutley, I checked, just to be sure, but its is checked yes, like I said I can see other pictures that are posted. I tried going to your site that you were posting them from, but browser couldn't find the page.

Could ya mail it to me at maddogjoe@charter.net got cable on this end, so ya can send them all :)

I guess the targeting adjustment was just to easy to figure out LOL!!!  Thanks !

Madddog Joe

(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Saintaw on November 19, 2002, 05:38:26 PM

Don't get the pics Either Mut.

I get this when I tried accessing the site:

Gateway Timeout
The following error occurred:

A gateway timeout occurred. The server is unreachable.
Please contact the administrator.

Please send those pics to saw@brutele.be too , thx :)

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: tailgunr on November 19, 2002, 05:50:49 PM

I seem em... Good pics too :)

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MutleyBR on November 19, 2002, 08:43:23 PM

Hi Friends!
Since many of you can't see the pictures in post and e-mailing them, on second thought, wouldn't be a good solution for i'd have to e-mail them to any future reader.
So, let's try a different approach...  Go to this link:
http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/Mutsight.html (http://www.mutley.pop.com.br/AH/Mutsight.html)

I intended to make an AH folm about it but have n time now. When I do it, I'll let you know.

Ah, Saw, ROTFL about your location.....

Good f(l)ights to all!!!!!:D

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: guttboy on November 20, 2002, 01:59:28 AM

MUTT!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks that was extremely helpful...just got down from a flight so I am a bit tired but I will install that sight tomorrow and give it a shot!

THanks again!

:D

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Tyro48 on November 20, 2002, 02:39:07 AM

I beleive I mentioned the .target command in my post above

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MutleyBR on November 20, 2002, 07:51:26 AM

Hi Tyro48!!!!!
You sure did!! Sorry for not seeing it! Was in a hurry to produce an answer and was going back and forth on the posts...
By the way, is the link I posted working for everyone?
If not please let me now...
Take care u all!!

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Saintaw on November 20, 2002, 09:05:59 AM

Still geting a Gateway timeout Mut :(

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: MutleyBR on November 21, 2002, 01:17:56 PM

For those of you still interested in my gunsight I've updated the page and included some demo AH films. Go to
http://paginas.terra.com.br/informatica/LOB/index.htm

Hope it works for all of you!!!

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Wizer on November 24, 2002, 08:20:11 AM

Great information here mutley.  Thanks for sharing.  wizer

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: Sancho on November 24, 2002, 06:00:52 PM

why do you need to learn to shoot?  You fly a P-47!!  Just spray!!!

:D

Title: Gunnery Training/Exercises
Post by: RightF00T on November 24, 2002, 07:16:14 PM

Yeah..but I want a controlled spray.  A nice fluid stream that...ahh shucks ya got me. ;)