Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Gabber88 on November 08, 2002, 12:20:27 PM
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For E-Fighting is best 109G10 or Mc205, and Why?
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The 109G-10 is definately better overall, assumming an experienced pilot. It has faster speed, much better climbrate and better acceleration--it can gain E faster and store up more Kinetic E thanks to its higher speed. It is also capable of losing E more quickly than the 205. The 109G-10 may well be the best E-fighter in AH.
HOWEVER, the 109 is MUCH tougher to fly effectively than the 205. While the 205 doesn't quite have the sheer performance of the 109G-10, it is MUCH more user-friendly. The 205 has a larger ammo load than the 109 and handles a LOT better at higher speeds. So while the 205 might not be as good as the 109 in the hands of the expert pilot, for the average flier the 205 is easier to use to maximum potential and can thus be more effective than the 109.
Between the two, I'd say pick whichever one you feel more comfortable in. If you decide on the 109, map your elevator trim to something where you have it easily accessible :)
J_A_B
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Agreed.
Also, you should compare c.205 to the 109 of the day, and that would be the 109G-6. In this case, not much to chose, 205 is better.
G-10 is a powerful upgrade to an old 109 airframe. It is a mixed plane, excellent in some categories, poor in others.
In a late war arena, you will probably survive longer in G-10. Kills, on the other hand, might seem easier in 205, just watch out for gangbangs.
E fighting makes G-10 clear winner over 205. 205 has only turning and high speed handling as its advantage, 109 has the rest.
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It's really not a question that can be well answered. If you compare two planes and ask which is the best E-Fighter then, of the two, the best E-Fighter is going to be the faster of the two. If you also have greater climb and/or diving acceleration, that is a bonus. From this stand point the G-10 is clearly the better E-Fighter over the C.205.
But now make the question a bit more complex. Ask, "If my opponent is flying a Spit V, which is the better E-Fighter, the G-10 or the C.205?" In this comparison I would argue that the C.205 is the better E-Fighter as its improved high speed handling over the G-10 will allow a better chance of landing a kill against the slippery Spit V. On the other hand if we ask, "If my opponent is flying an LA-7, which is the better E-Fighter?" then I would think the answer would be that the G-10 is the only one of the two that is an E-Fighter.
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Thanks all!
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Actually a funny question because neither could stay on the other's six for long. If the 109 was tailing the 205, the 205 could simply make a steep dive and make high-speed maneuvers which the 109 could not follow. In fact, the 205 turns so well at high speeds, he may be able to wheel around to the 109s six IF he waits until he's, say, well over 400. At that speed, the 109 won't be able to turn at all. If vice versa, again a steep or shallow dive and the 109 leaves the 205 in the dust. However this assumes a nearly equal E state at the outset. In the long run, as soon as the 205 runs out of altitude (he's really only got his high-speed maneuvering as a clear advantage), he's fighting a losing battle from which he can not run.
Be that as it may, they're both thoroughly offensive planes and love to take the initiative against enemies. I myself prefer 205s because I love high-speed maneuvering and prefer to keep my speeds up as speed is both offensive and defensive. However, if you want to stay fast (and you do with both these planes), you need to pick your fights carefully. If the bandit is trying to lure you into a turn fight, you really have to give up an off-angle gun attack to regain E.
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The 205 is better when Hristo is not driving the 109G-10 ;)
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I'm decided i prefer the G10
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Well, jokes apart ;), the 109G-10 has to use his incredible horizontal speed and climb performance and make some high speed runs. Above all the 109G pilot should be very careful when maneuvering. I always watch at the 109G-10 moves. If he stays fast and maneuvers in the vertical, then I have to put my C.205 nose down and dive away at great speed. He cannot follow me due to bad compression. If he dives away and doesnt pull up soon I know I can catch him or watch him auger. If hes fast and runs away in the horizontal or vertical I usually cannot follow him. If he maneuvers too much hes dead. The 109G-10 pilot, confident of his 2,000hp, usually underestimates the 205 E-state, even when the 205 is well flown (i.e when you keep your Macchi fast): a 350-400mph C.205 at 18K is *very* dangerous. This is my experience, YMMV.
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I'm not sure I'd give the 205 very good odds vs the 109G-10.
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You know the C205 and 109G10 are almost polar opposites. The C205 is a good turner, with excellent high speed handling. The 109 is an aweful turner with terrible high speed handling. They both climb very well. The C205 isn't really fast, but the G10 sure is.
The winner likely comes down to who held the merge advantage and who is smart enough to stay true to his aircraft the longest. If the 109 goes stupid and tries to follow high speed dives or turning fights he'll lose, maybe without the C205 firing a shot. If the 109 stays true to high speed without overspeeding/compressing, then it should be able to maintain control of the fight, or decide to disengage without the C205 being able to stop it.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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I'm not sure the 205 out turns the 109G-10 by that wide a margin, to be honest. You are dead on about the high speed handling though. Acceleration, climb, and top speed I'd say the G-10 has over the 205. Turning I'm not real sure about, I'm not all that familiar with the 205.
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The C205 is a surprising good turner at almost all speeds (except really slow). It is better than average, though not quite in the realm of the real turn-fighters. Still, the G10 can't be considered a turner at all, it's more a slasher. If you run it right on the edge you can get a decent turn rate out of it, but loaded with fuel, ammo, and gondolas, it's a dumptruck. If we were talking G2, then it would maybe be a whole lot closer, but most G10's are so overloaded that they can barely turn at all. The roll rate in the C205 is also very good.
The actual climb-rate difference is suprisingly little at low-mid alts. The C205 is over 4K/minute at low alts and doesn't really start to lose out until over 15K or so. It's actually in the top 5 or so climbers down low.... most people don't realize that though.
The G10 is gonna blow the doors off the C205 in top speed though at all altitudes, and it should be better in acceleration because it can accelerate to much higher speeds.
It's really a matter of advantage at start. If the C205 can force a turn-fight and slow the G10 down then the G10 is in trouble. If the G10 can force a high speed vertical fight (with an initial advantage), then the best the C205 should be able to hope for is a brief HO shot. Depends on how pure the pilots stay though, most of the time people just fly like they have some sort of generic aircraft that's mediocre at everything.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Gatt,
Diving just means the 109 got the upperhand and now he just has to prevent the 205 from getting back to altitude.
Altitude eventually runs out, if the plane doesn't get shot down first.
Too bad the 109 is undermodelled in AH and all the alllies who knows nothing of 109, other than it's "general reputation", disagrees with it.
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Wow, I didn't know the 205 climbed that well.
Can the 205 out turn a P-51? I'm using that as a baseline since I think the P-51 turns pretty well actually (well, at like 50% fuel and with some flaps it does). I know the G-10 can't hang with the P-51 at lower speeds, but it does ok at higher speeds.
I guess I might have to try out the 205 some, haven't really flown it. I've flown the 202 before, I like that plane.
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The C202 has good handling, the C205 is very similar, but the C202 is gutless, while the C205 isn't. The C202 also suffers from almost a total lack of firepower as compared to almost anything else in the game.
I'd say against the P-51, the C205 is going to be about the same at high speeds, though the flaps will likely help the P-51, but at low speeds the C205 should own it.
Remember that the 6G limit is in effect for pilot black-out though, so since everything can pull 6G's at high speed the overall practical turn rates are really about the same (at least instantaneous). I think the C205 seems to retain E pretty well, though much of that has to do with the ability to replace alt quickly and accelerate. Top speed is disappointing though, the P-51 would own the C205 in top speed at all altitudes.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Goin to try a c205..BRB..:)
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The 205 will out-turn the P-51D at low speeds, although not by a whole heck of a lot. Be wary of 51's that ride their flaps a bit...you will out-turn them in the long run but they might be able to gain angles for a shot.
IMO the 205 is one of the more under-rated planes in AH.
J_A_B
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The G10 lives and dies by its rudder...
109g10 will out turn a 205 using its rudder and going high yoyo lag pursuit....
Then it can saddle using rudder to maintain speed with its superior accel to remain saddled.
Lots of people think the g10 cant turn but they are dissillusioned to think so... ( when trimmed 2 thirds in the elevator it will outturn most aircraft in the game.)
In my experience the only planes that worry me about turn are the spit 5 zero f6f etc... The Turn and burners.. (Even turn and burners have little chance to turn when I comming right on top of their head rolling to match their turn rate.)
I dont qualify the 205 in this T&B catagory.
Now high speed handling the 205 is pretty awesome.. One of the best in AH... It also bleeds energy at high g's pretty fast giving the illusion of high turn rate when it is actually turn radii that its excelling at.
Dont be fooled by the two...
Under low g the the 205 handles and maintains e pretty well....
While this effect is very desirable (IMO) It is not as pronounced as say the yak or typhoon or shiden.... (they are the radii keymasters in my opinon..)
My money is on the g10 its engine is really superior to the 205 and has more tricks to use in almost any situation....
In a 1 vs 1 I dont think any other aircraft can take the g10....
(that should rustle some of the savages)
:eek:
DoctorYO
109 grandmaster.....
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The 205 would be one of my primary rides if only it could carry a drop tank.
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In a 1 vs 1 I dont think any other aircraft can take the g10....
bahahahahaha good one. The hook was too obvious though, you'll need to bait it better than that.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Hook or not, he is right...G-10 is one of the best 1 on 1 planes.
It starts to pale in many vs many situations.
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And I disagree. The G10, with initial advantage, does have the ability to maintain, or even gain more, advantage, 1 vs. 1. The problem is usually in the end game where the G10 has more trouble against someone who knows how to drag it slow, or very fast. The Hi-Yo/Lag turn thing is fine until the enemy starts to out-roll you and scissors you to death. Or, if he High-Yo's on you too and gets you caught at the top slow where he can out-turn you.
The G10 is a fine plane, but very difficult to fly well. Lots of G10 pilots chase kills around and are unable to finish them because they know they are vulnerable to chasing P-51's, P-47's etc into high speed dives so have to let the prey, at best, go. They also know when they meet a Co-alt Spit that they may have some troubles (as mentioned) because the Spit will slow everything down into a turning fight. Sure, the G10 can likely escape, but that's not a kill and is just wasting time or at best tieing up one enemy plane.
The G10 is fine many on many, simply use it like a slashing attacker, cutting through the pile and picking off anything that crosses your nose. Nice long high speed climbs on each side to maintain and replace any energy you lost on your attack.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Doesn't have the firepower for many on many in my opinion, unless you use the gondolas. Even then, the firepower isn't outstanding. I'd rate it right around or slightly less than a Spit IX, and the gondolas really screw up the handling (at least they seem to when I fly with them).
It is a good 1v1 plane, it'll give anything except a Spit IX and an La7 a really hard time.
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Many vs many requires speed to stay alive (if you are not superhuman with super SA and reflexes etc.).
Speed makes your firing opportunities short.
G-10 doesn't have neither handling nor snapshot ability for short firing opportunities.
If your target is determined to deny you a shot, you will have a tough time in a G-10. In 1 vs 1 duel, where running is not an option, G-10 will dictate the fight.
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Hristo,
I agree with everything you say, except, the no hitting power. 30mm, very effective, but not accurate except at short ranges. Also, the cowl mounted weapons are not all that bad, though nothing like the single tater hit. I see HB do it all the time, slash people in the G10 with taters... very effective. You basically catch people because of your speed and before their SA has had time to adjust to you coming out of nowhere.
Gondolas, good for bombers, ok for snapshots, else, best left in the hanger.
-Soda
The Assassins