Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: easymo on November 11, 2002, 11:52:53 PM
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1. The first German serviceman killed in the war was killed by the Japanese (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American killed was LtGen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. So much for the allies.
2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was wounded in combat and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His benefits were later restored by act of Congress)
3. At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced "sink us"),
4. The shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th. Infantry division was the Swastika,
5. Hitler's private train was named "Amerika.
6. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While completing the required 30 missions, your chance of being killed was 71%.
7. Generally speaking there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance Japanese ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo plane.
8. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. The tracers had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing.
9. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in the act).
10. . German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't worth the effort.
11. The US Army had more ships than the US Navy. (troop transports)
12. The German Air Force had 22 infantry divisions, 2 armor divisions and 11 paratroop divisions. None of them were capable of airborne operations. The German Army had paratroops that WERE capable of airborne operations.
13. Following a massive naval bombardment 35,000 US and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska. 21 troops were killed in the fire fight. It would have been worse if there had been Japanese on the island.
14. The only nation that Germany declared war on was the USA.
15. . During the Japanese attack on Hong Kong British officers objected to Canadian infantrymen taking up positions in the officer's mess. No enlisted men allowed you know.
16. The US Government viewed persons of 'enemy ancestry' as potentially dangerous. This included American born and naturalized citizens and those with permanent residence. The latter had come to the US seeking freedom and opportunity. They simply could not fathom the governments behaviour when their civil liberties were completely ignored, their families torn apart and sent to different internment camps, their assets frozen for the duration. American civilians held prisoner in Germany were exchanged for German-American internees. On arrival in Germany some men were arrested by the Gestapo as spies and put in camps, leaving their families destitute again. In January, 1945, the liner SS Gripsholm carried 1,000 exchangees to Germany. The last German/American was released from Ellis Island in August, 1948. Upon release, all internees were sworn to secrecy and threatened with deportation if ever they spoke of their ordeal. Many returned to their former homes only to find the houses vandalized, the contents stolen or damaged. Confronted with feelings of anger, confusion, resentment, bitterness, guilt and shame, they desperately tried to mend their broken lives. Personal justice was denied to these German/Americans while the government acknowledged mistreatment of Japanese internees and granted them financial compensation.
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Buncha baloney in there. Whoever you got that from didn't do his research.
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Ok Funked refute every one point by point. Providing true figures and a list of sources of course.... :D
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I have sources. What dont you like?
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ooohhhh - i can do numbers 1,6,7,8,10,14 & 15
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http://members.tripod.com/petedaggett/WWII.htm
If you are just going to name all of them. then here. You can follow the links yourself.
I tried to list only the less dubious ones.
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OK -
#1 - germany was not@war in 1937
#6 - every book by a USAAF pilot i've read has ended with them completing a lot more than 30 missions - seems like ~60 was standard. anyway the ratio of ground crew to flying personnel couldn't have been as low as 1:3.
USAAF was a larger service than the USMC.
#7 - regardless of numerical distribution, if something can be numericaly quantified you can have an average...but i guess "generally speaking" is a vauge enough term
#8 - gives the impression that this was how it was done for most guns on throughout the war - but it wasn't after the DeWilde/API became standard
i've never heard of a 30mm tracer round
#10 - may have been capable, but they didn't do it so how can you be sure? costal US had fighter/interceptor defense (56th FG was defending NY area before they went to the UK). its not just a matter of making the flight, but penetrating the defenses too.
only 2 Me264s were built. it seems unlikley that either would survive if intercepted by even a single squadron. the nazis had a track record of bombing cities in an attempt to demoralize the civilian population. one would think that if they could have they would have
#14 - Proclamation by Adolf Hitler - September 1,1939.
"The Polish State has refused the peaceful settlement of relations which I desired, and has appealed to arms. Germans in Poland are persecuted with bloody terror and driven from their houses. A series of violations of the frontier, intolerable to a great Power, prove that Poland is no longer willing to respect the frontier of the Reich.
In order to put an end to this lunacy, I have no other choice than to meet force with force from now on. The German Army will fight the battle for the honour and the vital rights of reborn Germany with hard determination. I expect that every soldier, mindful of the great traditions of eternal German soldiery, will ever remain conscious that he is a representative of the National-Socialist Greater Germany. Long live our people and our Reich"
that is a declaration of war
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Actually it is not.
You can't state the obvious deliberatly after the war started and call it a decleration of war. This was a public propaganda announcement made to the German people after the surprise German attack on Poland and not an official decleration of war like Hitler made on the USA...
Examine the Japanese attack on PH to see the difference, they fully intended to deliver an official declaration before the attack but it was delayed in translation and typing until well into the raid because of Japanese embassy personell incompetance.
Hitler never intended to inform the Poles of war status, well he did with use of Stukas, Panzers and such, but not in some formal declaration before the actual invasion.
BTW
The lil bit: "and has appealed to arms" is a blantant lie refering to a staged "Polish Army" raid on some border German radio station where the SS dressed up some concentration camp inmates as Polish soldiers, shot them and posed their bodies as evidence of the dastardly Polish attack. So in some ironoc way Germany was first attacked by the SS.. :D
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
...The lil bit: "and has appealed to arms" is a blantant lie refering to a staged "Polish Army" raid on some border German radio station where the SS dressed up some concentration camp inmates as Polish soldiers, shot them and posed their bodies as evidence of the dastardly Polish attack. So in some ironoc way Germany was first attacked by the SS.. :D
thats something that deserves to be on this list
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Originally posted by whgates3
thats something that deserves to be on this list
It would be if someone had gotten his facts straight. It was the SD not the SS.
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SD was part of the SS.... :p
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
SD was part of the SS.... :p
Not according to the Nuremburg trials.
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Sicherheitsdienst full title:
SD des Reichsfuhrers-SS
This literally means "Security Service of the Reich SS Leader" (Himmer)
Reinhard Heydrich was head of SD and his boss was Himmler so SD was an operational part of SS.
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Well gee Grun, I really didnt know that...
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Hint: What were the two key components of RSHA?
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Hint #2: Was the RSHA a part of the SS?
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AAARGH ?
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Hint: What were the two key components of SPAM?
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Answer: This is a trick question, as the ingredients of Spam have never been identified. Just ask any WWII vet.:p
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I always considered RSHA part of the overall SS organization since SS was just Himmlers large personal empire.
As for what RSHA was composed of I think basically the biggest two were SD and Gestapo although of course it got into bunch of other stuff.
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RSHA was separate from SS. The two major components were SD (a party organization) and Gestapo (a government organization). The Kripo ("normal" police) was also a part of RSHA.
So you have the SS with its three branches (Allgemeine, Totenkopf and Waffen) Then you have the SD which is organized under Himmler, and completely made up of SS personnell but formally under RSHA.
The reason for this is because the SD and Gestapo were having horrible jurisdiction problems with both organizations wanting to deal with the same areas of responsibility. At the same time no one wanted to have the SS take over the Gestapo or the Kripo. Even for Germany ala 1936 it was too much to have a police force run by the party instead of the government.
So a new "agency" was set up. The central agency for the Reichs security (my translation of Reichssicherheitshauptamt). Under this agency all policiary/internal security organizations were placed. The RSHA then drew the jurisdiction boundaries between the Gestapo and the SD.
At Nuremburg the SD was tried together with the Gestapo instead of together with the SS.
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"Then you have the SD which is organized under Himmler, and completely made up of SS personnell but formally under RSHA. "
Our disagreement is merely one of mindset, SD is clearly an SS organization....
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No, reread my post.
The SD was an organization under RSHA. In Nuremberg it was not tried together with the SS (if the SD had been a part of the SS it would have been tried as an SS unit).
The fact that the personnell in the SD were all members of the SS is irrelevant. You have to separate the individuals working in the organization from the organization itself.
Another example:
Even though all members of the SS Riding club (yes there was such a thing) were members of the SS and indeed it was a prerequisite for membership, that did not mean that the SS riding club (notice the name) was a part of the SS.
Sounds confusing enough for you?
(Hey, dont ask me, ask the Judges at Nuremburg).
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I consider them the same because the personalities involved are inseperable from the SS, thats why I said its matter of mindset. I'm not overly concerned with the legalistic interpatation...