Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on January 11, 2001, 11:53:00 AM
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I believe that if the loss of a perked aircraft results in the loss of perked points then people aren't really going to experiment with the perked aircraft.
Setting asside the arguments about realism in regards to pilot behavior (fear of death and all that)... this penalty will result in non-perked aircraft forever chasing that running perked plane.
I was thinking about a resolution to this problem and was thinking that a flying perked plane should result in loss of perk points regardless of surviving. Make the planes cost less, and keep the money instead of giving it back.
It seems this would enable everyone to fly perked planes at some time and would prevent the "Now I have a perked plane... I'm going to fly at 30k picking my targets for the rest of the tour" mentality I believe will occur.
I don't know exactly how perk points are/will be accumulated, so I don't really know what the cost should be. But it seems that 10-15 average perk-point yielding sorties should be sufficient.
AKDejaVu
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If you're flying in a perk plane, and log for the night, do you lose the perk plane, or can you hop back in it the next day?
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-11-2001).]
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The way I understand the planned implimentation...
You will not loose your perk points unless you are killed using them in a perked vehilce/plane. Basically, once in a perk plane, you could fly it until you died.
AKDejaVu
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Let's just say that gun jams are implemented, do you think that 'running' will become more frequent or less? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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My perk plane nightmare....
I have finaly saved ,borrowed and purchased enough perk points on e-bay to get my dream ride of choice.
Carefully I select a field not under attack as to not get vulched.
Start engine roll down the runway ,over correct for torque and slipstream , ground loop smash wing and hear that god awful stick hitting the metal garbage can sound (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) get sent flying over the AH terrain in that surreal way and...............Wake up in bed shivering from a cold sweat.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
What if ya got 1 free perk ride per tour?
[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 01-11-2001).]
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LOL! I was thinking that too Faux Pas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Of course, it wouldn't matter either way in that case... your points and your ride would be lost. How about tearing the wings off on your first perk-plane dive? I forcast that a C47 will have at least one kill on a perk plane by the end of tour 13 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Ya think this might affect people's decision to fly perk planes from/to carriers?
hehehe
AKDejaVu
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Howabout a 8inch shell, sended to you by some newbie from 30k away (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Baddawg, even worse.
You have scrimped, saved, and struggled for a couple of weeks for that brand new shiney Me262.
You take off and spend your time climbing to altitude looking for a likely target. THERE! below you at 1 oclock you spot the HQ strike coming in consisting of 4 B-17's with 3 P-51 escorts.
All of a sudden... *Bzzzzzzllllllll*
The power in your entire neighborhood goes off for 5 seconds, causing your computer to reset and of course you disco.
Bye Bye perky! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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I don't think I'll ever get a perked ride. But if I do I would really be disappointed if I screwed up on landing or found out the first time I put the nose over it gained speed a little faster than I thought and WEEEEEEEEEEE the free ride back to the tower. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) WOW loved that initial climb though. Man it got to alt quick. In another 4 or 5 weeks I can try that again. I just got to remember it accelerates real fast in a dive. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
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relax ladies - you'll be able to fly them offline to your hearts content (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) just pracitce beforehand (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It's kinda like 262 in warbirds - you only get to fly one every 3 weeks.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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I don't really understand the direction they are taking with this. One of the things that is often pointed out, in reviews and such, is the comparatively limited plane set. On top of that they seem to strive to limit even these few planes further.
Now for example, a lot of the action occurs around the carriers. You can fly very few planes off the CV,s. Of course RL dictates that there aren't going to be a lot of Yaks available on a CV. But, why introduce the CV before you have flushed out the RPS in the first place.
From here they are introducing even more planes, you can only fly in a limited way.
The tanks, and boats have been successful in upping the attendance. And im happy to see HTC making a buck. But as a fighter fan, im concerned about the direction this seems to be going.
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Originally posted by easymo:
I don't really understand the direction they are taking with this. One of the things that is often pointed out, in reviews and such, is the comparatively limited plane set. On top of that they seem to strive to limit even these few planes further.
Now for example, a lot of the action occurs around the carriers. You can fly very few planes off the CV,s. Of course RL dictates that there aren't going to be a lot of Yaks available on a CV. But, why introduce the CV before you have flushed out the RPS in the first place.
They aren't doing an RPS here. Aces High isn't a WW2 simulation--it isn't ever going to be a "balanced" or "historically accurate" planeset. As Pyro stated online last night, HTC is making planes *they* find interesting, regardless of how many served in WW2 or if they saw combat. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
(http://www.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/uns_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 01-11-2001).]
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hiya all:
Well this is just amazing, for months and months, there where post about how we should have perk planes and such. Well now we have them, or will very soon. and everybody is now concerned that they might loose there hard earned perk plane. well tough cookies to you.
the idea behind a perk plane is you get to fly it when you have earned it, and if you loose it, that is your fault. if you have a perk plane and want to fly at 500thousand feet so nobody can kill you, well by all means go ahead. because if you are waaaaaay up there in your brand new shinny perk plane, you can't kill me untill you come waaaaaay down to where I will be. If you want to run away from a fight in your brand new shinny perk plane because you are suddenly out numbered, well that is just smart flying no matter what you are flying. and if well taking off in you brand new shinny perk plane, you roll and go BOOM, or well landing your brand new shinny perk plane you bounce and flip and go BOOM, well better luck next time.
A perk plane is just that, a perk.
when you have enough points and grab a perk plane, well good for you, well done getting those points, if you loose your perk plane, start saving up again, you will get another soon enough.
As fd ski has pointed out, you can fly the perk planes off line, so practice there and learn to take off and land, then come to MA, find a fight and loose your perk plane, I mean kick butt.
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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS
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"purchased enough perk points on e-bay"
As far as I know there is no way to transfer perk points to someone else.
I would like the perk system to be like if you were buying the perk plane.
Say, I got 200 perk points accumulated now. Perk planes and perk system come into place.
I want to buy me a perk fighter (say, me-262). This would cost me like 150 perk points. Now, this plane would deduct those perk points PERMANENTLY from my perk points because I "bought" it. If I lose the plane (shot down, auger) I lose it. Period. I would have to buy it again if I wanted. If the perk plane is damaged, I would have to taxi it into hangar (or a newly designated "repair shop" installation on airfields) and pay perk points to repair the battle damage. If perk weapons are added, it would make your maintaining a perk plane in the air be of enough cost to prevent a constant use of cheap perk planes smacking non-perks with annoying regularity. Yes, this may encourage runstang dillemma, but at least if the pilot loses his perk plane he wont be getting it back for some time (aka, no "cheap" 15 perk point planes that will be hunting you again 20 minutes (time it takes a pilot to gain those perkies) after you shot it down)
What is different about this from the current system we think is in place? Well, for once, no refunds of perk points if you land and want to change AC. Prevents uber pilots from gaining uber rides every 20 minutes (and thus really screwing the game for others) and introduces some "management" aspect into the game.You could have bought an me-262, an f7f Tigercat, and a b29... and spent like 800 perkies on them. Me262 has shot rudders and flaps, tigercat needs a new right engine, and the b29 has no elevators left.... time to go and fly non-perk craft to get perkies to repair your beloved rides.
The only thing that I find wrong with this is that it makes the DISCO problem very serious. But then again, it already is with the perk system that we think is in place anyway.
Am I making sense? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Yes Tac my post was almost entirely what you might call tongue-in-cheek. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Why does everyone keep getting so worried about these types of things before they are actualy brought into play. The same kinds of disscusions were running amuck before 1.05 came out.
RELAX for something's sake! When the perk planes get here, we will get a chance to try it. If there are problems, HT will fix them. Just like the original 1.05 map with no spawn points for vehicles and PTs. We told HTC and they listened and made changes.
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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
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Does anyone even LIKE the perk idea? I for one can easily envision a marked decrease in people playing because of perking.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
I believe that if the loss of a perked aircraft results in the loss of perked points then people aren't really going to experiment with the perked aircraft.
Crap. Perk points come and perk points will go. People *will* experiment.
Setting asside the arguments about realism in regards to pilot behavior (fear of death and all that)... this penalty will result in non-perked aircraft forever chasing that running perked plane.
Before we start divining the future, how about we just wait and see? This is nothing but more crap. Sure there will be people specifically out to kill the perk planes. So what? How bad will the problem be? I sure the hell don't know - and you don't either.
I was thinking about a resolution to this problem and was thinking that a flying perked plane should result in loss of perk points regardless of surviving. Make the planes cost less, and keep the money instead of giving it back.
There isn't even a problem yet and you're solving it. Cost less than what? We don't even know what will be offered, let alone how much it will cost. And if this plan was followed, wait for the howls about getting dumped while in a perked ride. This is all just foolish.
It seems this would enable everyone to fly perked planes at some time and would prevent the "Now I have a perked plane... I'm going to fly at 30k picking my targets for the rest of the tour" mentality I believe will occur.
So what if someone decides to fly at 30k? Maybe, just maybe the perk doesn't perform well up there. Maybe they will have to come down sometime for a kill. Maybe some other perked pilot will also be at 30k to kill the first perked pilot. We don't even know what the perks will be, remember. This is just tripe Deja.
I don't know exactly how perk points are/will be accumulated, so I don't really know what the cost should be. But it seems that 10-15 average perk-point yielding sorties should be sufficient.
This is the crux of the whole situation. We don't know really anything yet some of us are posting how it all ought to be. Give it a rest. Unbunch the panties. And wait and see how HTC implements perk points and planes.
Wait until you know what to whine about to whine, eh?
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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Its just another thread in the rich tapastry of Aces High. Some people will hunt perk planes...others will run away because they know they are out classed. The key is, VARIETY, and its going to make things fun.
(http://home.tampabay.rr.com/strategy/2late.jpg)
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Hmm only one point above that really sticks out in my mind...
Do we want a larger client base? Would aircraft with limited availability, ontop of the already limited planeset do it?
Or.. do you think a broader base planeset would be the ticket?
Personally I think the latter, perhaps HTC can for each Perky added, add a non perky to the planeset. I'm sure they eagerly await the release of their latest perky, perhaps some willpower tossed in such that not only the uber plane gets its deserved attention, but the non-perky as well.
My thots.. not yours..
AKskurj
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What Midnight said. With a bullet.
I really get tired of the people who just have to whine about something they only think they know about.
Let's stir up controversy. Let's piss off the people working on the software. Let's try to influence how this will all play out when we don't even know if we will like how it is planned - and don't even know how it is planned anyway.
And what the hell does the lead message have to do with the "runstang" dilemma? Nothing in the post referred to a "runstang" at all.
And what the hell is this with everybody deciding what plane others should fly anyway? What gives you the right to dictate what I fly? I pay my bills - not you. If I want to fly a C-Hog, then by God I'll fly an f***ing C-Hog. If I want to leave a situation that turns against me and I'm flying a plane that can do it, who the hell are you to decide that is a bad move on my part? What's wrong with doing the right thing strategically and surviving (perk points intact) instead of dying and giving you more perk points?
You whiners are the biggest bunch of inbred crybabies I've ever seen. Don't kill me. Lay yourself down so I can kill you. Don't fly that plane - I don't like it. Perk points. Oh my God! What ever will we do? I know - implement them my way because obviously HTC doesn't have a clue what they are doing.
This is the biggest bunch of crap I've seen in a damn long time.
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There isn't even a problem yet and you're solving it.
Erm.. I'm not solving anything. I'm discussing it.
Cost less than what? We don't even know what will be offered, let alone how much it will cost.
Sigh. I don't know what they will cost either. I do believe the cost should be set up to make it available to anyone with 10-15 average perk point sorties. As opposed to making it difficult to get the perk planes, but you hold onto them indefinately.
And if this plan was followed, wait for the howls about getting dumped while in a perked ride. This is all just foolish.
What does my idea have to do with this? Either way you are going to loose the perk points. The disco during perk whine would pale in comparison to the people crying "perk-discoer" when anyone in a perk plane pulls the plug if things get sticky. Basically, no matter what the perk point implimentation... when there is a disco in-flight... you should lose the plane. There just isn't any way to figure if the disco was intentional or not.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 01-11-2001).]
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Here's how I feel about perk points, chogs, niki's, Tempest, spits etc etc etc. When the game stops being fun for me THEN I will STOP playing till then they can do what they want with game. If they do something that makes it no fun for me I will be gone, like everyone else of like mind.
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Just a thought...
You're a non-ace like myself; you've worked hard for your perk points, and you finally get enough to fly your plane. You taxi it out onto the runway, stopping briefly to spit & polish (several times, infact). You're so chuffed you decide to start from the hangars and taxi out to your take off point. You get a friend on Vox to play ATC, and do the whole nine yards before finally hitting the throttle for take-off. You rotate and the plane departs the ground.
Just as you are about to bank right to climb out in relative safety, a dialog box appears; "Host disconnected" -- your ISP was so impressed it dropped you.
This is going to be a neccessary evil; if you don't lose perk points for stick waggling and finally yanking the modem cable to avoid death, people will do exactly that.
But more often than not my experience with discos is that they happen just as I level out at 25k feet or something.
Normally it's just a bit of time that's lost, or a tactical position gained from rolling that aircraft at that time before the field was swamped.
Perk-points introduces a different aspect on the non-persistence of the Aces High world. For the first time you will be able to lose something other than just a little kudos on behalf of the guy who was on your six.
Any of you who have played UO or EQ will know what screaming babies this can make of the most mature woman (us men turn into screaming babies far more readily, just try taking our BFGs away!).
For most of us, from the Host's perspective, a disco is a brief "dropout" of signal from a player. In some games it is possible to recover from these situations.
Is there any way it is going to be possible to create a disco-recovery system which won't be utterly exploitable? We don't want people using disco as a quick way to RTB without crashing an aircraft. Perhaps if a disco'd aircraft could go into a controlled dive; thus disco in combat = increased chance of death. But also if you recover from the link death within the timeout period (say 90s), you will find your aircraft having flown in a straight line at a lower altitude?
Perhaps recovering from the disco you find that your aircraft has sustained damage too?
K
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Discos have been a problem since the start of on-line gaming.
Really, the only way to make things less "whinable" would be to make the perk aircraft more attainable. Having to wait a week to get a perk aircraft only to have it lost to the net-gods may be a tad bit worse than having to wait a day or two.
Basically, I can't see why one perk plane sortie shouldn't be available to everyone once every day or two. The loss of a perk plane isn't so bad when you know you won't have too long to wait before you get another one. Of course... its always better to see a little action before that happens (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
AKDejaVu
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Personally I think a disconnect will just have to be viewed as some sort of mechanical failure and you lost the plane. It happens, dela with it. I can't see an easy wasy around this. Although kfsone's idea of a controlled descent you pick up later has some merit.
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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>
[This message has been edited by Graywolf (edited 01-12-2001).]
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Yep. Ive always looked at discos as the ultimate simulation of mechanical failures (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
However, if HTC is capable of introducing a "10 seconds to re-log to AH after disco=no loss of plane or perk points", it would solve this problem. This person would be back in tower though. Its already bad enough that the disco screwed your sortie and the time you took to fly to 20k =)
Why? People who intentionally disco have to pull the plug on their modem. This means they will have to exit the game, reconnect to the internet, re-log. This takes way more time than simply re-logging into AH (which is the only step the "true" disco sufferer has to do).
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Alt-tab > cntrl-alt-del > close aceshigh.exe.
Sorry.. its just too easy. Besides.. it usually takes longer than 10 seconds to receive the "connection to host lost" message.
Discos will happen. Its unfortunate but true. They really need to be treated as a death or else they will be used and abused.
AKDejaVu
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Ok... I will make this as simple as I can for you "perk lovers".... The idea was... To introduce new planes without too much imbalance... This has been modified to.... to reduce the amount of "popular" planes seen in the arena to a manageble level.
In the current, second case... one or several planes will be perked to curtail their usage to say... 10-15 percent of the arena total by various "perk" values. Now... the new guy or infequent flyer or just not anal point gatherer will log on and eventually know, that 1 or three planes are unavailable for him to fly most of the time. He will also know that 1-3 planes out there or..... 10 to 50 percent of the planes out there are superior to anything he may choose to fly and that they are being flown by people that are either more skilled, have more experiance or both...
How much fun is that gonna be? How many new people will be thrilled with this abortion?
lazs
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Get your own thread lazs. Your points really have nothing to do with this one.
AKDejaVu
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If HTC is so "on any given Sunday " driven then scrap the perk plane crap and go to four countrys, 3 in Human dynamics almost always produces what we see going on in the MA! HTC wants us to beleive they didn know this? And so we introduce the life saving game balnacing " perk " system. B.S.
Pay your $30 bucks for as close as you can get on the internet realism, slide the canope shut and take your chances, keep it that simple.
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Tyro48,
I've read through your post about 10 times. I don't get it. Not one single word. Are you dogging HTC or supporting them with sarcasm? I just can't tell. Are you upset about the perk system and/or 3 sided war, or are you criticizing people for criticizing HTC? I just can't tell.
AKDejaVu
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With four countries there is one side ends that might as well be put away in a closet as no one ends up flying for it. And gang bangin still occurs because one of the four sides wil lhave such low numebers the problem reasrs it head again. .
In a two sided arena there is one side who will gang bang the hell out of the only one other side.
To get rid of gang banging? No countries, no squads and it's every pilot for themselves. Hmm. That would suck worst of all, imo.
The problem is with the players it's called "the horde" mentality. How do you fix that?? I've seen it in AW, FA, happens in the WB's WWIIA and it happens here.
It's like regulating guns, when guns aren't the problem.
-Westy
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Just noticed this BBS is (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/powered_by2.gif) .
You know, with threads like this, it just might be aptly named. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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Exactly Westy now your catching on no need to "perk" anything at all cause it isnt going to fix anything! Period!!
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No Tyro, you are definately out in left field though. You have no idea what you are tallking about yet instead of taking some time to research and read up on what HiTech and Pyro have had to say about the "perk" system you continue to post away like you have Tourets syndrome.
-Westy