Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: gofaster on November 12, 2002, 11:56:07 AM
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... for more information, contact the Lord's Resistance Army, northern territories, Uganda. These women have been given a good, solid Christian upbringing based on the Ten Commandments, as interpreted by modern-day prophet Joseph Kony, and have been trained to do the Lord's work.
Concerned about quality? Don't worry. Kony must be ok, because he's Christian and we all know that Christians are peaceful people that respect other people's human rights.
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Escaped Ugandan Sex Slaves Battle Inner Demons
Mon Nov 11, 8:59 AM ET
By Matthew Green, Reuters
GULU, Uganda (Reuters) - Rebels stormed into Hellen's village and clubbed her father to death before dragging her into the Ugandan bush for training as a child soldier.
For the 11-year-old girl, that was just Day One of her ordeal as slave "wife" in the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), one of Africa's most fearsome rebel groups.
Kidnapped by the raiders who murdered her father, she was forced to stand in a row with 18 other abducted girls as a rebel commander picked her out as his mate. Rape consummated the union. Hellen had yet to reach puberty.
Now 17, she cradles his baby in her arms.
"I love the child, but I hate the father," says Hellen, speaking in a rehabilitation center in the northern town of Gulu. "If he comes here he won't touch my baby," she said, gazing intently at her son Justin suckling on her breast.
Hellen was released in June after nearly seven years of captivity, along with about 100 mothers and babies freed by the rebels during a forced march to escape a Ugandan army offensive.
"They beat us so much the skin peeled off our backs," she said softly, as Justin clasped at her gray and white dress.
The freed mothers were a lucky exception. Since June, rebels have embarked on their worst spree of abductions for years, seizing an estimated 4,000 children, some as young as 9.
Charities in Gulu say an average of at least 10 children are taken every day to serve the LRA, whose leader Joseph Kony is said to be a former altar boy who takes orders from a Holy Spirit and a host of "angels."
HERDED INTO BATTLE
Northern Uganda's eerie landscape of abandoned villages, long grass and misty hills is full of parents waiting in vain for their sons and daughters to come home.
Charities in Gulu estimate that Kony has seized at least 20,000 boys and girls during his 16-year-old rebellion, which has killed hundreds of people and forced half a million to flee.
Abductees are rapidly trained to shoot, then herded into battle against the army's tanks and helicopter gunships.
Anyone caught trying to escape is clubbed to death. Sometimes they have to dig their own graves first. Other children are forced to participate in the killings to instill discipline, according to the testimonies of escapees.
Food is scarce. Children eat wild plants. Most are used as slave laborers. Some are killed as "sorcerers."
For girls, it's worse.
"Once you are given to a man, whether he is young or old, you can't say no," said Esther, 29, who escaped in September after eight years at an LRA base in neighboring Sudan, which says it has now cut off support for the LRA.
Esther said she had been one of 12 wives serving one commander.
"Once the person wants to have sex with you, you have to do it -- if you try to refuse they can beat you with machetes," she said, telling how she carried her baby, Brenda, on a two-week flight through the bush to safety after an army attack.
TEN COMMANDMENTS
Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni has promised to crush the rebels by the end of February, but even if his "Iron Fist" offensive succeeds where others failed, healing the children of war will take years.
The LRA has created a lost generation of teen-agers who can barely read but know how to fire an AK-47 rifle, fueling a vicious circle of war and poverty gripping the north.
Human rights groups say northern discontent is rooted in discrimination under British colonial rule, ethnic massacres under former military ruler Idi Amin, and a feeling of neglect by the government, but Kony seems to have no clear agenda.
The self-styled prophet has in the past said he wanted to overthrow Museveni and rule according to the Biblical Ten Commandments. But to northerners, his motives are a mystery.
For those lucky enough to escape or be rescued by the army, the brainwashing by the LRA is hard to cast aside.
Children at rehabilitation centers look deceptively normal. They play cards, swing their legs from bunk begs and line up for lunch with green and red bowls, some laughing with visitors.
But many suffer mood swings and nightmares, shunning their peers. Some believe that Kony can still read their thoughts.
"Sometimes I dream that they have abducted me again," said Christopher Ojok, 14, who was held for almost two years but escaped in August during a gun battle between the army and rebels. "Sometimes I wake up startled. I think they've caught me," he said, matter-of-factly relating his ordeal.
The abducted boys and girls have grown up starved of love and can hardly speak about the past. Counselors say they must attempt the seemingly impossible -- to forgive their captors.
"When they know you love them they begin to trust you and they can talk to you in detail," said Florence Lakor, who counsels escapees. "Once they open up, the healing can begin."
Even if the children can confront their inner demons, their neighbors may not want them, sometimes seeing them as outcasts.
For the girls, whom some men consider as used goods, finding a husband may be difficult. The centers do not test for HIV (news - web sites)-AIDS (news - web sites), but counselors say some girls must be infected.
Hellen, who preferred not be identified by her second name, is hoping to learn tailoring, before heading back to her village, where the rebels may again come knocking.
"I'm scared, but there's nowhere else to go," she said.
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They were doing this to each other before the Europeans got there and started right back up after they left. Funny how it's all still the "white man's fault". If they would all just follow Bobby Mugabe's enlightened example of how to run your country, they'd be ok.
:rolleyes:
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I was hoping someone would respond to that posting like you did, just to save me the trouble of saying it myself. I wonder if those victims will be clamouring for reparations in 140 years.
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Originally posted by Dune
They were doing this to each other before the Europeans got there and started right back up after they left. Funny how it's all still the "white man's fault". If they would all just follow Bobby Mugabe's enlightened example of how to run your country, they'd be ok.
:rolleyes:
Who exactly is this "THEY" you speak of Mr. Dune?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Who exactly is this "THEY" you speak of Mr. Dune?
Africans. Specifically, the northern Africans kidnapping the tribal peoples of the interior. The only difference between history and modern events is that there is no longer an export market overseas.
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By "They" I mean the Africans themselves.
It's too easy to say the inter-tribal warfare (Hutus, etc) is a result of gerrymandering done by the Colonial powers and their leaving a power vacuum when they left. But the majority of these genocides are the result of generation-old score settling. These tribes have been fighting each other for centuries. There are even reports that Mugabe's actions in Zimbabwe are a result of his attempts to "get back" at members of the Mantebele tribe.
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It's certainly not the only country, and it's certainly nothing new.
You know how they grow cows in little places in order to be butchered for meat?
I'm actually surprised they don't have farms like that for women somewhere.
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"Concerned about quality? Don't worry. Kony must be ok, because he's Christian and we all know that Christians are peaceful people that respect other people's human rights.
"
Two possible motives for this post.
1. to show that the current war on terror is unfairly targeted at muslims.
or 2
to imply that the US since it invaded Afganistan should invade uganda, or would if uganda was muslim.
As to item 1 ,dont worry gofaster. If he or any other christian commits an act of terror on the scale of 9/11. he will be delt with too.
as to number 2. Mogidishu is a great discusion point for anyone that thinks that the evil white man can save the africans from themselves.
It seems you are sugesting that the US or its allies invade uganda to help these people
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Originally posted by Pongo
"Two possible motives for this post.
1. to show that the current war on terror is unfairly targeted at muslims.
or 2
to imply that the US since it invaded Afganistan should invade uganda, or would if uganda was muslim.
As to item 1 ,dont worry gofaster. If he or any other christian commits an act of terror on the scale of 9/11. he will be delt with too.
as to number 2. Mogidishu is a great discusion point for anyone that thinks that the evil white man can save the africans from themselves.
It seems you are sugesting that the US or its allies invade uganda to help these people
No, just the same old Religion bashing that insecure people must post to feel better about their non-beliefs. Same ol' same ol'. I've yet to see a Christian start a post bashing Atheists on any BBS that I've visited...why is that? ;)
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Man...I SOOO missunderstood the topic of this post.
Oh well...
*sigh*
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Nice try gofaster...
This one is the best you can come up with? Maybe you should do more reading up on Ireland if you want to get into the atrocities done in the name of the church. That should help you for this century. Of course, you're going to really have to resort to the middle ages for any serious history to attempt to make your point.
Of course, some would only have to refer to China, Russia, Cambodia and Vietnam to show what kind of atrocities can be done in the name of atheism or the need for no religion.
A zealot is a zealot is a zeolot. Religion has little to do with it.
AKDejaVu
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There are bad people everywhere I don't see any evidence that it's one religion, one race, one anything..
human rights violations of all kinds go on every day in many countries.
Here's just another one going on.
People have so much intelligence and now some great technologies.
It's too bad they use it to find new and exciting ways to be perverse and kill each other and destroy everything they touch. da's
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You don't really think this has anything to do with Christianity?
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Actually, it was to show how easily a religion can be distorted to suit political goals. A lot of folks started painting Muslims as terror-loving extremists. My goal for the post was to show that Christians can be painted the same way.
As for religion-bashing, I haven't seen anybody come to my door trying to tell me to give up religion, but I have been called upon by several different Christian organizations to adopt religion; not just Jehovah's Witnesses, but Baptists and Presbyterians as well.
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You're reading this board, aren't you? Do you really want to see examples of people coming into your house and telling you how bad religion is? How about... your post?
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dunno gofaster... it doesn't look like this post proves anything. The guy is not a member of a church acting on behalf of it. He's a cook and that's pretty much what the article is trying to get across.
I think the post here and in the religion thread were incredibly out of place and made zero sense. They proved nothing other than your complete lack of understanding for virtually anything.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by gofaster
As for religion-bashing, I haven't seen anybody come to my door trying to tell me to give up religion, but I have been called upon by several different Christian organizations to adopt religion; not just Jehovah's Witnesses, but Baptists and Presbyterians as well.
Only because they have pockets to fill....whats your excuse? ;)
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Man...I SOOO missunderstood the topic of this post.
Oh well...
*sigh*
You were thinking something like this? :cool:
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
I think the post here and in the religion thread were incredibly out of place and made zero sense.
This is the O Club, right? For all things non-Aces High?
I think I understand the intent of my post well enough.
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Originally posted by Kieran
You're reading this board, aren't you? Do you really want to see examples of people coming into your house and telling you how bad religion is? How about... your post?
I never said religion was bad. I said religion can be distorted, and has been, on numerous occassions.
Branch Davidian comes to mind right off.
As for Ireland, their troubles go farther back than the 1920s (the popular 'start' of "the Troubles") with the whole Protestant/Catholic feud, but for the most part it was a political move by the King of England to counter the Catholic influence of their arch-enemy (Spain) in Ireland. Yet another example of religion being used to further political goals. I'm sure our European members could fill in the particulars on that issue so I won't try to get into it here.
But what we should be discussing isn't the merits of religion, but how to recognize when its being manipulated to suit a particular political goal within the context of Osama bin Laden and his crusade against America. My posting regarding Kony was to establish a framework.
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Oh we won't invade anyplace like that unless it's 'Hip'
Only european countries get that kind of 'luck'....
which was worse Rwanda or Bosnia ... hummmm... well I'd say Rwanda ;I know a few Bosnian's/Croats so doubt I'm underestimateing that end..... you didn't see the UN or NATO help those Africans much did you?
What about Colombia... if the US ever had a resposible hand for leading a country into chaos it'd have to here. We start out relations by createing a revolution. This was done to create Panama, a country which would gladly lease it's canal lock's to the US(along with military instalations)... unlike Colombia which likely wanted to keep it's own land.
Bringing it into the mordren day we DEMAND Cocaine from Colombia while we also demand and enforce that they don't grow it. (if you did that to a kid would it be considered child abuse?{ask kid to do something, then slap him, then YELL at him to do it agin(until he does it),*SLAP*} Demand isn't going away. but i'm on a tangent..
Just like with Iraq we won't do crap unless there's money to be had or money to be lost by inaction. ( i think Iraq is a 'money to be had' operation, Bosnia was a money to be lost (unstable euorpe is bad for the US)
This says one simple thing that drives our great nation ... money- if you think diffrant your a liar or a fool.
Anyone actually read the UN proposal that was sent to Iraq?
I'm just wondering if Iraq gets the privlage of selling oil to the US in it? Proably at US Price calls too.... maybe? Seems like we've been doing that for awhile now. Didn't Mr. Cheny do 20 mil or so with Iraq for thier oil?... I wonder if the 'trade embargoed' Iraq got full price then? I don't think Mr. Hussien is a good man, but there are alot of bad men as this post points out. So I think there's very littie chance of mainstream US doing anything about Africa... they don't have enough Oil and noone cares if they are at war.
btw that's my best escape from stupid people takeing money for PETA or something, "You think your dog's got problems; you can buy PEOPLE in africa, {{why would I spend it on a DOG!}} usally don't add that tho
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
... Of course, some would only have to refer to China, Russia, Cambodia and Vietnam to show what kind of atrocities can be done in the name of atheism or the need for no religion.
A zealot is a zealot is a zeolot. Religion has little to do with it.
AKDejaVu
Exactly.
Any Farrakhan supporters care to comment?
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Originally posted by gofaster
Exactly.
Any Farrakhan supporters care to comment?
Animal is offline currently. :D
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By the way, I've been baptised in my grandmother's church in a small Southern town where Saturday nights meant a good wholesome revival with laps around the pews as the bass guitarist thumped gospel tunes. The first time I took my wife to a Saturday night revival her Catholic eyes got as big as saucers.
And I also ate free lunches on the university library lawn with the Krishnas. They may be different, but they can cook vegetables and brown bread well enough.
I was married in an Episcopalian church.
And I usually spend my Sundays sleeping off a late-night "Aces High" session and watching football. I praise God 3 or 4 times a week, either at sunrise or sunset, as I pound out a quick 4 mile run. He doesn't pass around the collection basket out there, and he doesn't seem to mind my missing the services.
I also don't make a big deal about my beliefs, or get defensive when challenged.
I think Ripsnort already knew that, though. He didn't really chomp on my bait. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
No, just the same old Religion bashing that insecure people must post to feel better about their non-beliefs.
that's the most underdeveloped argument alive today and consequently, the only one you and eagler ever seem to have.
too bad you resort to this play-freud approach every time instead of facing down the atcual issues that people raise. as for your stunning psycho-analysis...
guy 1: doesn't know or care what happens when he dies, doesn't know or care one way or the other whether god exists, is capable of starting from scratch and developing his own moral system without the motivator of fear, accepts the unknown whole heartedly come what may.
guy 2: is afraid to question his beliefs because god might be reading his mind so they've never been subject to critical thinking, follows god's commandments no matter what they are because of the fear of eternal torture, prepares for death constantly out of fear of being unready, endlessly tries to get national policy to support his god as a matter of state.
who is insecure again? exposing christianity and every other religion as fraud isn't about insecurity, it's kind of a reality check to your groups that you aren't going to call the shots anymore - and the rest of us aren't going to sit back and be fodder for all these stupid religious wars. the more your nonsense is exposed the less power your lobby has and the sooner this fairey tale is over - plain and simple.
the sooner we put ALL religions to bed the sooner we can grow up as a species.
and one more thing rip......i've never seen a christian convert to atheism or agnosticism when suddenly struck with a disease or at the end of their rope or mired in poverty. i have seen plenty of people suddenly get 'born again' though when faced with the unknown....what does that suggest about the 'security' of those people doctor?
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mrfish, show me one post started by a Christian bashing an atheist....just one...thats all I ask, just ONE. ;)
Its insecurity in its purest, subliminal form, but thats okay. you'll get over it, one way or another ;)
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a. again, in lieu of a debate over what was offered in my post you retreat to your broken pseudo-psychology
b. what have atheists done to deserve a thread bashing them?
would you like me to start giving you reasons why someone may want to bash christians?
http://www.godhatesstudmuffins.com/
is a good place to start....
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Incredibly amazing how much stupid racism still exists in the world.
Not trying to defend the actions of these imbecils you posted about gofaster, but what the HELL does their actions have to do with the continent that they come from, or the fact that they are African?
They are just going back to their old tribal ways.
Never hear that about the Irish or the Serbs or any other people who we like to consider as WHITE. Even though THEY commit similar attrocities.
You guys don't even realize your doing it and then you wonder why Black people in this country get angry at the treatment from ignorant mokes and the insidious backhanded remarks they hand out so freely.
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Originally posted by mrfish
b. what have atheists done to deserve a thread bashing them?
Doncha know?
We're Hyprocritcal child rapists that have a governing authority that protects us from prosecution AND makes excuses as to why that was an acceptable practice in the past....or am I confused?
When a soldier dies, most often his cry for help is for a medic first, then to his mother......as it should be IMO.
If I were ever in a position again of having to console a dying soldier and he wanted to pray...I'd act religious for him and the moment, it's only right IMO.
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Rip, you're wrong, one day when you grow up a bit more as a person and are secure enough to put your conservative-reneck-hunter-wanna-be persona aside you will realise that.
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There are no atheists in foxholes, or airplanes that are flying into the ground or a skyscraper.
Simple fact.
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Originally posted by 2Slow
There are no atheists in foxholes, or airplanes that are flying into the ground or a skyscraper.
Simple fact.
Well, I know about foxholes and you are wrong...at least back in '67-72' you would have been. The split was about 50/50 in the ranks of the living. Fresh fish would be mostly religious untill their first few firefights with casualties...some convert, some get so pissed that they abandon their religion totaly and some hold their fear inside and don't talk about it...those that hold it in most often have that 1000yd gaze attributed to WWII era battle fatigue.
In the end it's what brings them peace when the end comes.....God isn't the answer to all people in that situation.
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Originally posted by 2Slow
There are no atheists in foxholes, or airplanes that are flying into the ground or a skyscraper.
Simple fact.
Prove it.
EDIT: NM, Lars just disproved it.
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While I may be concerned about the causes of such evil in Africa I am far more concerned about it's EFFECTS. Intervention would be worth the risks if it would put an end to the animals abusing those children.
My religious beliefs provide some comfort, for I am convinced that there is a special place in Hell for those who commit such crimes against children.
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Our friends are all mankind.
"I have compassion on the multitude..."
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
"And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them...and said 'But whoso shall offend one of these little ones...it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.'"
Some of you guys are more concerned about winning an argument or pointing out each other's biases than you are about finding a solution to the problem. Such discourse is unhealthy and counterproductive.
Shuckins
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Reverse that- what has any Christian done on this board to merit attack?
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i don't only criticize things i see on this board - why does a christian have to post somehting to draw criticism?
did you miss my link? what about that love-fest of a site? what atheist site is analagous to that?
- has anyone come up to you recently and told you that if they didn't think what you thought, you'd be tortured for the rest of eternity after you die?
why don't you address the issues i've raised rather than martyring yourself for your religion being criticized? you don't have to respond you know...
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Incredibly amazing how much stupid racism still exists in the world.
Not trying to defend the actions of these imbecils you posted about gofaster, but what the HELL does their actions have to do with the continent that they come from, or the fact that they are African?
They are just going back to their old tribal ways.
Never hear that about the Irish or the Serbs or any other people who we like to consider as WHITE. Even though THEY commit similar attrocities.
You guys don't even realize your doing it and then you wonder why Black people in this country get angry at the treatment from ignorant mokes and the insidious backhanded remarks they hand out so freely.
pathetic
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Mr. Fish-
I am answering your questions. They aren't the answers you want, naturally, but you are getting answers.
You are a logical person, right? So... how does one website fairly represent a world-wide theology? I know you are a lot smarter than that. I kinda assumed that was not worth addressing, but my bad.
Do you mean historically what have atheists done? We can argue that one til the cows come home. I could take the easy way out and mention Hitler, but there are certainly more.
Why does anyone have to do anything to draw criticism? Hmmm. What would you criticize if you didn't criticize actions? Gotta say, that leaves me scratching my head. Beliefs? You mean, even if I never say anything about religion or do anything to affect you, and you somehow find out what I believe, you are going to criticize? You don't see anything wrong with that logic?
To be honest, I can understand people upset by pushy Christians that don't realize they are doing more harm than good. I respect the zeal of the believer, but I hope they gain more discernment about the right time and place to try to deliver a message.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Why does anyone have to do anything to draw criticism? Hmmm. What would you criticize if you didn't criticize actions? Gotta say, that leaves me scratching my head.
ah, then perhaps putting my quote back into context would help-
ripsnort (paraphrased): "i've never seen a christian start a thread bashing atheists"
me: "why would they?"
now that it's safe back home in it's native context, it means christians in life warrant criticism ('bashing' in your venacular). if christians warrant bashing and atheists by and large don't then ripsnort's comment isn't applicable -
also, my link is extremely relevant - it only gpes to show how disorganized and broken your flock is - there's no unity at all.... northern ireland is another golden example. if that site doesn't explain why people like me want to bash christians then you should go have some tea and think about it;)
you are part of a bigger group and they don't all agree with you that implies it's weakness to me...if you don't like people criticising your flock then fix it - look at what we see
Beliefs? You mean, even if I never say anything about religion or do anything to affect you, and you somehow find out what I believe, you are going to criticize? You don't see anything wrong with that logic?
kieran, you either believe the bible or you don't, your philosophies and rules as a christian are simply a matter of record - if you want to identify with them then you have to take the criticism that will result from non-believers that don't like being told they are bad people that are going to hell because they don't believe in god.
if you can prove that it is possible for good people to go to hell without being bad, then you can prove that christians don't diminish me solely by their beliefs. anythng short of that won't cut it.
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There is a serious disconnect here.
Christians are not supposed to hold anyone, no matter who or what they are, in lower esteem. No one.
Christians do not judge people or determine where they go- God does. I cannot say who God will send to heaven or hell. I can't even guarantee I will get there. Only God knows.
My question to you was rhetorical in a sense. If a Christian believes a certain way, but never says anything to you, tries to change the way you live, or otherwise does not impact your life, do you feel you need to personally criticize them? Of course not.
Suggesting that since Christianity is fragmented it is weak isn't necessarily true. Christianity is essentially similar in all but procedure. True, Catholics and Protestants have historically conflicted.
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Only God knows.
and there, brethern; lies the rub.
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I think U.S. special forces should get involved in this fight. What this dude (Kony) is doing to population is sick. Being the only super-power in the World, the U.S. does have somewhat of a moral obligation to stop things like this. Plus, volunteer units (ie special forces) are always itching to get into some combat.
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I think U.S. special forces should get involved in this fight. What this dude (Kony) is doing to population is sick. Being the only super-power in the World, the U.S. does have somewhat of a moral obligation to stop things like this. Plus, volunteer units (ie special forces) are always itching to get into some combat
No way in hell! theres no oil there!!!!
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By the way... Sex slaves? they are everywhere, in europe they get abducted from the eastern block against their will or with false promises and then they are stuck in the toejam...
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Oh,
In Thailand were millions of Western tourists visit every year, there are girls "bread" to be potatos bellybutton well.
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Hear ye here yee!
"They"
Has now offically been declared a racist code word by the AH BBS left wing racism religious police. Anyone (whites especially) who referes to any group of people (non-whites especially) with the pronoun "They" shall henceforth be deemed a racist by the left wing racism religius police and be subject to all appropriate punishments including but not limited to being labeled a "racist".
Carry on citizens....