Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pei on November 13, 2002, 12:19:29 PM
-
Well firstly I'd say there a lot of things AH does better but from playing a few other sims this week there are two things that stand out that all other flight sims should steal from AH:
View system: even without the Linda Blair thing it's amazing how restrictive other sims seem. Configuration is easy and provides everything you need. Flying anything else I feel like I'm half blind after playing AH.
Built in, easy to use, stable VOX: no more RW, TeamSound and setting up VOX hosts or the stillborn Open Voice in IL2.
-
Originally posted by Pei
View system: even without the Linda Blair thing it's amazing how restrictive other sims seem. Configuration is easy and provides everything you need. Flying anything else I feel like I'm half blind after playing AH.
No doubt there. That is "the" one feature that has kept me from playing other sims for anytime longer than a few days.
-
amen
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
Agreed!
-
no doubt about this one!
-
Since when did having liberal 6 views in AH excited you guys so much, while WWII pilots just simply had to develop actual tactics to guard realistic blindspots. Why is this such a simulation feature you feed upon? Or is it the gameplay you like?
Flying half blind irritates you guys so much, yet you promote the limited icon CT arena like it’s panacea of flightsim realism ? Why?
Because the limited icons combat this unlimited 6 view feature?
Since when did AH have a mouse scroll feature with TrackIR http://www.naturalpoint.com/?
Say you like it, but 'better' is a stretch.
-
all the planes have blind spots and there not talking about the way you can see there talking about how easy it is to use and switch from one veiw to another.
-
Originally posted by Creamo
Since when did having liberal 6 views in AH excited you guys so much, while WWII pilots just simply had to develop actual tactics to guard realistic blindspots. Why is this such a simulation feature you feed upon? Or is it the gameplay you like?
Flying half blind irritates you guys so much, yet you promote the limited icon CT arena like it’s panacea of flightsim realism ? Why?
Because the limited icons combat this unlimited 6 view feature?
Since when did AH have a mouse scroll feature with TrackIR http://www.naturalpoint.com/?
Say you like it, but 'better' is a stretch.
-In the P-51D, with the bubble canopy, could you just turn your head and look back? Or did the head rest obscure a lot of the view?
-In the P-51D you could look back, yeah.
-It was good?
-Yeah, yeah.
-So the fact that you had a backrest there did not obstruct the view a lot?
-Yeah.
-But in the P-51B, if you turned back, could you see anything?
-In the B plane you could see nothing. Nothing.
-Could you see better in the P-51C than on the B?
-Much, much better.
-So the Spitfire kind of canopy helped a lot?
-Yes. You could turn your head and look back."
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:X7o6A7Dopg8C:home.insightbb.com/~j.dapena/cohen/interview.html+In+the+P-51D+you+could+look+back,+yeah&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
-
AHMEN TO THAT
-
Yes AH view rule. Hard to imagine why otherwise excellent games have let HT own this catagory for so long....
I think the air to air gunnery is better then any other game as well.
-
Ease of views? Then I find TrackIR easy, how does AH compare? Even a mouse look is superior, without being cheesey gameplay.
And what got you so close to god to ahmen the post that backs me up?
Was it the P-51 D model and it's obvious acounts of good 6 view, or the B model account saying" -But in the P-51B, if you turned back, could you see anything?
-In the B plane you could see nothing. Nothing.
-
PomGo, HT owns the MMOG or whatever it's called because of excelling at flightsim gameplay, not simulation, and we are arguing how close they could close the gap within reason. It's just fun to dog on the guys that totally disregard the diffrence between what's simulation and not.
-
sheesh Creamo, think you should go play yer namesake a while, maybe you'll feel better later. ;)
-
Hmm, no. And Im still right.
-
It's all a matter of opinion, there is no right or wrong.
..
..
..
..
..
..
CREAMO!!!!!
:D
-
Veeery good viewing system, indeed.
About TrackIR & mouse view in AH, saved head position do not co-operate?
BTW
What was name of that US cockpit gauge company at WW2 time? You know that company which supply standar US cockpit gauges all over the world during that war time? How they could make it?
I need make some research again with booglegoogle.
:p
-
I have track IR and I don't really use it: the constant need to re-centre and the tendancy not track all the way (i.e. it won't always cover the whole range of view) make it more restricting to me than using snap or pan views. Perhaps the worst thing is the lack of dead-zone (making shooting difficult), maybe when they implement that I'll go back and give it another try.
The Linda Blair phenomena we can argue about until the cows come home (or the Red Sox win the World Series, whichever is longer). I don't want it removed from AH but I don't need it added to IL2 either.
-
Originally posted by Creamo
Ease of views? Then I find TrackIR easy, how does AH compare? Even a mouse look is superior, without being cheesey gameplay.
And what got you so close to god to ahmen the post that backs me up?
Was it the P-51 D model and it's obvious acounts of good 6 view, or the B model account saying" -But in the P-51B, if you turned back, could you see anything?
-In the B plane you could see nothing. Nothing.
I dont recall posting any commentary - did I miss that?
-
Originally posted by Pei
The Linda Blair phenomena we can argue about until the cows come home (or the Red Sox win the World Series, whichever is longer). I don't want it removed from AH but I don't need it added to IL2 either.
What the flat spin is the "Linda Blair" phenomena?
-
In the movie The Exorcist, demon-possessed Linda Blair could spin her head 360 degrees as much as she wanted.
-
just being able to look straight back, turn the head a full 180 (owl like) degrees
-
Originally posted by Creamo
Since when did having liberal 6 views in AH excited you guys so much, while WWII pilots just simply had to develop actual tactics to guard realistic blindspots. Why is this such a simulation feature you feed upon? Or is it the gameplay you like?
Flying half blind irritates you guys so much, yet you promote the limited icon CT arena like it’s panacea of flightsim realism ? Why?
Because the limited icons combat this unlimited 6 view feature?
Since when did AH have a mouse scroll feature with TrackIR http://www.naturalpoint.com/?
Say you like it, but 'better' is a stretch.
Im a little foggy here Creamy, whats your postion on this again?
The AH view system is the best out there IMHO - but I would like to see a change in the icon system - can we still be friends?
-
no. the lind blair is when you put your head back 180 degrees and continue arround to the front again
ie check your 9 and then 6 if you like. But if you go arround to your 3 without going through your 12 again you are into special effects land...
-
Originally posted by Pei
View system: even without the Linda Blair thing it's amazing how restrictive other sims seem. Configuration is easy and provides everything you need. Flying anything else I feel like I'm half blind after playing AH.
Hear hear.
Not even going into the "6" view debate, the AH view system just works so much better. After plying AH, playing WB3 or IL2 makes it feel like there are great big gaping blind spots. For example, going from looking over the left wing to looking left and up at a 45 degree angle in AH you are covering all of the sky. There is an overlaping part of the view fields of the two views. in WB3 and IL2 it always seems that there is a missing chunk of the sky between the two view fields, a chunk of the sky that I cannot check for enemy aircraft.
The built in vox is real nice too.
-
I personaly think AHs view system is not all that great, its in fact TOO gamey. I have yeat been able to turn my head 180deg while strapped in a four point harness in my car let alone, in a plane moving at 300MPH pulling 4Gs. I really perfer the WWIIOL veiw system with the fading Icons, and lack of ranging on the botom of the icon, OH and the smoke trails from the tracers( eats frame rates though) and most importantly the lack of a "Linda Blair" 6 view. The simie sluggish head rotation is kinda cool in WWIIOL, although if you are good you dont have to worry about it much. I dont like the instabily factors of WWIIOL or the lack of a solid damage modeling, its a bit toonish but its getting better. After about a year or so it should be decent. AH and WWIIOL have much to learn from each other, both have a great deal to offer the players, but neither have really taken the step or CANT take the step to get it done. AH has a great bomb damage model, a really good stress damage model, and a half way decent visual damage model, it could use some touching up on some of the older planes(Older as in been in game longer), AH lacks in the round tragectory and size comparison based on range that WWIIOL has, a Bf109E4 is a small plane but not anywhere as near as small as in AH, that thing is TINY. The building and ground clutter is to scale with the aircraft in WWIIOL, but the building damage is non-existant, almost like the bomb damage in WWIIOL. I will say both have done a commendable job on the ground to air area, both are equaly difficult to hit a moving aircraft at ANY altitude.
-
AH view system does it for me too, every other game/sim I purchased... I tried to re-create the view system, usualy failed :)
HT should put a copyright on it & sell it !:D
-
Originally posted by Halo
In the movie The Exorcist, demon-possessed Linda Blair could spin her head 360 degrees as much as she wanted.
LOL! :D
-
Creamo, what to do then with endless "He was straight behind me blazing with all his guns" in fighter pilots memories?
I think neither AH liberal, nor Il2 restricted vision system is close to exact representation of view in a fighter aircraft. Il2 underestimate human eye abilities, and also ability of human to move his neck and body. AH is too liberal with a instant views; also AH head positions are sometime can be moved too far, giving a best possible view. IMHO.
-
I think it would be better if AH set the views 'realisticly' instead of letting the players reconfig their views. There is something very disturbing about slamming your head into the gunsight and swiveling 180 for a good 6 view. I set it that way too, but am disturbed. :D
Gorski
-
In defence of some of the supposed dweebery, many pilots actually sat higher in the cockpit than was standard for their height, adjusting their seats or adding extra padding. Jabo guys did this for the obvious reason of better view over the nose, but fighter pilots also due to the fact that the spine contracts during high G maneouvres, making them shorter. Some LW pilots also flew in combat with elevator trim maxed out so they had to apply constant forward preassure on the stick to fly level. This gave them a supposed edge in reaction when evading an attack (the 109 climbed/turned quicker). Makes you wonder ... was Hartmann a dweeb? :D
-
Dead six view may be gamey but I think HTC said it was a concession as there is no rear view mirror.
so think of dead six as glancing up at your mirror (jusy a big easy to use one)
-
I'm surprised no one has mentioned some of the UI stuff. While not exactly pretty, it's very verstatile and can be changed on the fly. I know of very few other flight sims that actually allow key and joystick mappings to be changed in flight . Sure, it's not used every sortie, but it's an outstanding feature nonetheless.
What has to be mentioned is that AH was an early adopter of DX6 and allowed multiple joystick mappings from the outset. AH and MS FS/CFS2 were the only games where I could use a stick/throttle/pedal combo all from separate manufactuers and plugged in independently (and had distinct toe brake support) in the early days. While it's "old hat" now, HTC was definitely an innovator in this department (by virtue of the fact it didn't have a legacy product to support).
The view system is excellent too, but not without a very few minor "issues." Linda Blair is one aspect I'm not overly fond of, but clearly it has its supporters and if I don't want to use it I merely don't map a dead six view. As it is, I do use the six view button the joystick hat, but I have it set up so it's really only a minor variation of the five o'clock view. What is exceptional in AH is the way the head can be moved around the cockpit to look around obstructions; also the fact that the zoomed view is progressive (not just several fixed FOVs) and can be used in any direction (not just through a gunsight). In these regards AH clearly stands above the rest.
The view system itself caters to different tastes (instant views; pan to snap; slow-pan) and while I'd like to see mouse-pan support (and at a quicker head-turn rate), it's definitely very versatile as a whole. The ability to actually set your own views is pure genius. While it might be overly generous in some aspects, it can always be tailored to suit and be made more restrictive.
That said, ideally I'd like a mix between what IL-2 has and AH does. IL-2 is neat in that one can use a hat for snap views, and then use a mouse (likely mapped to a joystick) to pan from there. The two systems work in concert, rather than like in AH where it's one or the other (snap vs. pan). IL-2 is limiting in that the head position is fixed, however (and obviously therefore doesn't have the capability for custom set positions, either), and zoom is FOV "jumps" rather than being fluid like in AH.
Issues like icons are always subject to change, so I won't go on at length about them, though WWIIOL's fade in technique is well thought out. The rest of its view system is quite restrictive, however. I really don't understand the argument for how there can be a zoom in one view (gunsight) and then not in others. Surely if one can "hone one's vision" in one direction, it can be done in all, no? That's another matter though, since in AH it can be done. ;)
What AH did early on was to lay an excellent foundation, and has since built on it. While any system is subject to tweaks and fidgeting, AH's was well thought out from the beginning and it still shows. HTC could easily address the points of its detractors by making certain areas more limiting, but the key is that they made the system as a whole extremely versatile and unlike any other.
[edit]
Oh yes, while I already mentioned two things (three if you include early DX6 support) I'd also have to say integrated voice support is another obvious advantage. While it's not nearly so clear as RogerWilco or other voice-over-IP applications in terms of quaility, the fact that it works based on in-game players and ranges is excellent. This one they didn't invent, but borrowed, but they're the only current flight sim that does it. :)
Cheers,
phaetn
-
I too have wondered about the zoom feature in WWIIOL but I had adjusted to it, and realy didnt use it much other than on long straffing runs or reconning a convoy to see if it was carring troops. I did however REALLY like that fact that a great deal of people did drive in convoys and made the life of a 110 pilot that much easier, but untill AH gets its act together on its ground convoy speed and size, IE the trucks are TOO small as to everything else that doesnt fly in game. I thought the head movement in AH was too quick and snappy, but I utterly hated the view system of IL-2, yet WWIIOL FPS kept the game from being smooth or even playable for a great length of time, I didnt even mind not having kill notifications anymore. That is one thing I will definatly give to AH, if you kill it, you GET the kill, none of this putting 60 20mm rounds and 200+ 7.7mm MG rounds into a H75 Hawk and watch him flame into the ground and NOT get the kill. I think the major difference between the two is the fact that WWIIOL bit off more than they could chew to start with, and AH is still nibbling on the same long since dried bone. AH is almost 3 maybe 4 years old, in that time I have seen and played a great majority of the online games out there, and most are starting their sequils, like Asherons Call, both AH and AC came out around the same time(not counting beta), but Turbine(makers of Asherons Call) are working and plan to have out by the first quater of next year is AC2. The funny thing is Targetware has been working on Target:Korea, and Target:Rebaul almost as long as WWIIOL has been out. Hopefully they will have all the stuff I am looking for other than a first person shooter with planes and tanks, IE WWIIOL, or snap and pop and 90s graphics with flat maps on a 3D surface, IE AH. Or maybe I just have too high of expectations of the games being produced nowadays.