Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on November 14, 2002, 02:36:14 PM
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3 GHz is out baby.
AKDejaVu
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That not nearly as exciting as Hypethreading.
WTG Intel.
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Hyperthreading ranks right in there with MMX. Not really that big of a thing... yet.
AKDejaVu
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MMX was a stupid marketing gimmick to sell CPUs.
Hyperthreading works, or at least, all these reviewers think it does:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1746
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Mzg4
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=50000319
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q4/pentium4-3.06/index.x?pg=1
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MMX was a stupid marketting technic?
Sorry Animal... no way.
MMX highlighted one thing... hardware support without software support will get you nowhere. MMX and MMX2 techology is in every chip sold today... AMD or Intel.
The main problem with Hyperthreading is that there wasn't much of a need to write code for multiprocessor units. Especially in niche markets like gaming.
Eventually... the MPS capabilities will proliferate into more programs... and that will highlight Hyperthreading.
AKDejaVu
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He heeeee, currently I have an Intel 1.7GHZ machine. Am just now thinking of moving to an Intel 2.8GHZ. Mind you I am just thinking of doing this.
Less than 2 years ago I would upgrade to get 2 or 3 MHZ faster without thinking twice. Now I only let it rattle around in the old mind to gain 1.1GHZ!
My oh My, how things change in such a short period of time!
I wonder how the CPU manufactures are going to get the public to want to upgrade after the 1GHZ mark?
I think it will take the game programers to get the public to upgrade. But they are way behind in taking advantage of all that the latest CPU's and Video cards offer!
Maybe it will be the movie and video guys who push the limits?
I don't know, but someone will have to get the public's attention and push the limits in order for the hardware guys to keep producing faster and faster hardware.
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Intel has really been cranking out the CPUs lately, that's for sure!
I think hyperthreading is a good idea, but honestly I don't find it too exciting right now. It's totally useless unless you have a multithreaded OS and multithreaded applications. [Windows 2000, XP Pro, and Linux] (This means XP Home users get NO BENEFIT from it at all, since XP Home doesn't support dual CPUs.) I know of very few games that are multithreaded, and very few home users make use of programs like 3dStudio Max (where it would help the most). You'll also need a fairly new chipset that supports HT.
Regardless, it's still an interesting concept that does seem to help performance in some cases.
(I'm just waiting to see the advertisements from Gateway for XP Home systems claiming HT is like having Dual CPUs. :rolleyes: )
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the other thing hyperthreading appears to be great for is running multiple apps at the same time. Like listening to your mp3 collection while flying AH. Or realtime video/audio capture. Or doing graphics manipulation while burning a CD or listening to mp3s.
In those situations, the reviews I saw show some pretty amazing results. Up to 28% "raw" performance increase seems nice, but the biggest benefit was a dramatic reduction in stuttering and other system hiccoughs.
I think it will be a HUGE thing once people start comparing hyperthreading systems to older systems doing their normal tasks. You just won't have to wait for one thing to be done before hitting another, and even the basic OS and GUI operations should feel smoother.
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Just upgraded to a 1.5Ghz P4 from a 733Mhz P3 I'm doing just fine thank you :)
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3ghz Pents just taking the place of dual cpu systems. Saw Screen Savers on TechTV. Probably won't boost framerates or anything like that for gaming, will just help running multiple apps.
Good boost for business PC.....nothing for gaming.
Hajo
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Hajo.. what are you currently running?
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I just started looking to upgrade so far I'm thinking along the lines of:
Pet 4 2.53GHz (533 MHz)= $238
ASUS P4PE/L Motherboard = $121
Corsair 512mb PC3200/DDR400 RAM = $183
Best Data 128meg G4 Ti4400 Video card = $199
Total = $741
then I'll just move my HD, floppy, DVDROM, CD-RW, soundcard and modem over from my current system.
What ya'll think?
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I think you should buy that for me. Hell, I'll even pick it up!
SOB
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how bout goin amd ditching the 400 mhz for 266 or 333 and not havin to change all your stuff over. you would have enough left over to buy new stuff.
and very few people are gonna be able to help you with p 4 problems. as no one i know builds them at all unless forced to .
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Not quite true dolf. Built many P4 systems myself. The thing is, if you use quality parts, then you have no problems.
That is why I always recommend stuff based on what level the user wants to deal with. You can get away with being a bit sloppy on a P4 system, versus an AMD system.
This in no way is a bad reflection on either AMD or Intel, it is just the perception I have.
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i can see what you mean but how to you mean sloppy ?
the heat thing with cpus? i had my sink not seat right on my asus 266-c and it did the p4 thing powered up and then shut down almost instantly several times. fixed the alignent and processor is fine heat protection worked. is there another issue? or issues?
i realize i am nowhere near your level scuzzy but have build 20 or so athalon systems, can get um up and runnin in under a hour 99% of the time with xp and i haven had a real problem out of any of them ( that wasent the user) . most the repair work i do tends to be on p4s now (probly cause most oems are p4) so i think of them as problematic.
the price difference is just so huge. at least at the level i build for ususaly. seems like amd works harder to keep prices down ( dont need new board for cpu slot change ect ect ect.)
for the personal part about p4s
i was selling computers for a living when p4 came out. it was nothing unusual to have to pull 3 out of the box to get one that worked for 3 days. compaq/hp/sony all had the same problems. weird errors at totaly unpredictable times freezes in all programs, athalon compaqs on the other hand were flawless and half the price we couldent keep them in stock(same software almost identical hardware). then suddenly we couldent get them ( amd cpu comps)any more. circuit city rep came buy and said "sell the crap p4s or quit ,if they dont work that is what the service plan is for intel paid us off and we are gonna push them only them ". half of us left in a 3 month period. now they sell them again go figgure, so i do harbor resentment for them, ak tin pot postin 24/7 from work shows their work ethic i think also.
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That's what I mean dolf. Sloppy; You can mess up on the HSF install of a P4 and not sweat it too much as reseating it gets you back in business, but do that to an AMD and boom,..it's toast (well,..for the most part). You can also use the stock HSF with an Intel P4 Northwood or later and overclock without much worries. Can't do that with AMD.
Your experience with P4's related to OEM computers. I would not use an OEM computer if it was given to me. There is a reason they have cheap prices. Look under the hood to know what I mean.
Fortunately, there are high quality motherboards on the market for both AMD and Intel CPU's, or we would all be stuck with garbage.
You do have to pay more attention to an AMD system. The high heat alone is enough that it should be of concern. Also, I wish AMD would get someones act together in the support chip area. I know they have made inroads, but the support chips have always been the bane of an AMD system.
It is just a matter of personal preference. I know guys that seem to get thier cookies off by applying new neon fixtures to the inside of thier computers and they love tinkering with it.
Me,..I look at a computer like its a toaster. Just do the job I need at the time I need it done and don't give me any trouble in the process.
On pricing; I think Intel is too expensive and we pay for much wasted overhead at Intel (nature of huge companies), but at the same time, AMD is too cheap and thier financial reports show it.
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Well, this is all kinda like the debate over Fords and Chevys, but I'm gonna stick with what I've been using without complaint these last 10 years... INTEL
So here's what I ordered;
Asus P4PE/L 845PE P4 (533FSB) Skt478 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, LAN
Asus V8420 GeForce4 Ti4200 AGP 4X 128MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI
Corsair CMX512-3200C2 512MB PC3200 400Mhz 64Mx64 184 DIMM Cas2 Memory w/Heat Spreader
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Processor (Northwood) 2.53GHz, 533MHz FSB, Socket 478
Also I've "asked" the wifeypoo to get the Western Digital 120GB Ultra DMA/100 Hard drive (w/ 8mb
buffer, 7200RPM and 8-9ms seek time) as my XMAS present from my sons and her.
So this system outta/shoulda keep me going thru another few AH upgrades and addons.
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thanks for the response scuzzy. i can see what you are saying you have a wider view of the subject by far, thanks for the insight.
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Used both brands of CPU in my systems. Have had 0 trouble with either. Heat issue is becoming a thing of the past with the newer AMD chips, Intel never had them.
Only difference I can see when I purchase parts for PCs' is price vs. performance. Make sure I get the best performance for a price I'm willing to pay. Now....if performance is equal the price becomes the measuring stick. I always stay with name brands in components (HD, Vid Cards, Soundcards, etc.) ones that I know have a good track record on reliability and performance.
Don't skimp and purchase a 79 dollar monitor and expect great video from a GeForce4Ti4600 card...can't be done! So just remember that when building a system.
Now....in our squad, the Flying Circumsized er Circus...oppps. Within the last two years squadmembers have built AMD based systems. Main reason price versus performance.....Intel makes a great chip! But testing has shown that for the time being Intel vs. Athlon in gaming test Athlon has a slight edge. Now I said for the time being! As anything in life....things are subject to change.