Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NUKE on November 17, 2002, 01:23:32 PM
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Crime rate per 100,000
Interpol's most current Crime Stats, UK ( England, Wales, Scotland)1998, US 2000
Murder Rate: UK 8.38, US 5.51
Breaking & Entering: UK 1975.15, US 728.42
Aggravated Theft: UK 2088.31, US 873.35
Car Theft UK 654.14, US 414.92
Theft( All kinds) UK 5543.45, US 3762.78
Wow! Banning guns does wonders for the murder and crime rate.
I like it when some silly Brit comes on here and posts "Fire-Arm" related murders firgures in the US vs UK. Why not go the extra step of providing figures for all murders?
They must be killing each other in the UK by some other, more humane means. Those UK thieves sure are having a hayday it seems...probably secure in the "anti-gun" culture.
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That is complete roadkill.
UK homocides. rate for 1998 per 100,000: 2.75
From interpol's web site.
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Statistics/ICS/1998/UKEnglandWales1998.pdf
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Originally posted by Thrawn
That is complete roadkill.
UK homocides. rate for 1998 per 100,000: 2.75
From interpol's web site.
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Statistics/ICS/1998/UKEnglandWales1998.pdf
Trawn, look at Scotland's rates on the same site. Scotland is part of the UK, as I stated in my post.
Average Scotland, England, Wales stats.
http://www.interpol.com/Public/Statistics/ICS/1998/UKScotland1998.pdf[/URL]
Maybe the UK serpates itself from Scotland in crimes, but I know they like to take credit for Scotlands inventors.
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Why not Northern Ireland as well?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Why not Northern Ireland as well?
Why not fix the problems in your own kingdom intead of worrying about someone elses back yard.
:D
PS for those who think this was a serious post.....bugger off! "p
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Maybe the UK serpates itself from Scotland in crimes, but I know they like to take credit for Scotlands inventors.
Is it such a hard concept for many Yanks to understand? Scotland, England, Wales are the constituent parts of Great Britain. Great Britain and Northern Ireland form the United Kingdom. The UK couldn't separate itself from Scotland - Scotland is part of the UK. Comprende?
The population of Scotland is about 5 million. The population of the entire UK is 60 million. I think it would be far more representative to look at the whole UK for comparison wise - less chance of the results being skewed by anomolous results etc.
Also, NI is in those UK statistics - which is where most of the gun crime is concentrated, even post-Good Friday. It doesn't have much influence on the results - the combined UK murder rate is less than US.
-Dowding
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seems that guns prevent a majority of crimes but have little or no effect on the amount of homicides... gun accidents are allmost nil and going down every year... Why would we want to give up our constitutional and human right to defend ourselves again?
lazs
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Trawn, look at Scotland's rates on the same site. Scotland is part of the UK, as I stated in my post.
Average Scotland, England, Wales stats.
Odd form of Maths.
England and Wales rate 2.75 per 100,000
Scotland rate 14.26 per 100,000
How did you arrive at the figure of 8.38? Halfway between England and Wales and Scotland?
That convieniently ignores the fact that England and Wales have more than 10 times the population of Scotland, so the statistics will be much closer to the England and Wales figure for the whole.
It's rather like taking the overall US murder rate, subtracting however many murders take place in Washington, then giving a figure midway between the US figure and the Washington figure as the average for the US. That would give you a figure of 20 or more per 100,000.
According to the Interpol figures, the UK average is 3.92.
According to the Interpol figures, the US rate is 5.51
However, the figures are odd.
If you look at the bottom of the US chart, it says
"Data supplied by the country but not calculated by the General Secritariats method"
It doesn't say that on the UK chart.
On the US chart, it shows 15,520 offences. It then has a column saying "Offenders", which it gives as 13,230
The FBI figures for 2000 give the figure of murder victims as 13,230, not the number of offenders.
The England and Wales figures are given as 1428 cases, but the next column shows attempted murders, as 676, and then number of solved crimes, as 92%.
It seems the Interpol method is to take murders and attempted murders and lump them together. Thus, take away the attempted figure for E+W, 676, from the total, 1428, and you get 752 murders.
The E+W stats show 745 murders in 1998/99, which is very close to the Interpol figure minus the attempted cases.
To sum up, Interpol say the US figures are not calculated to their methods, but don't say that about the E+W figures. The E+W figures seem to show attempted murders as murders, the US figures do not.
Even adding in attempted murders, the UK figures are still lower than the US figures.
As to adding the Northern Ireland figures, they are higher than England and Wales, but lower than the US figures. Given NI's tiny population, they would hardly change matters at all.
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Oh, just checked the "attempted" figure for Scotland. 730 under the murders column, but 87% under the attempted figure.
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Also, NI is in those UK statistics - which is where most of the gun crime is concentrated, even post-Good Friday. It doesn't have much influence on the results - the combined UK murder rate is less than US.
Actually, I left N. Ireland's stats out, only used England, Scotland and Wales combines stats. Northern Ireland's murder rate is less than half of Scotland
Is it such a hard concept for many Yanks to understand? Scotland, England, Wales are the constituent parts of Great Britain. Great Britain and Northern Ireland form the United Kingdom. The UK couldn't separate itself from Scotland - Scotland is part of the UK. Comprende?
Thanks for backing my point of displaying the crime rates between Scotland, England and Wales, wich is 8.505 compared to 5.51 in the US
UK's full proper name: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland . The UK includes England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland.
How did you arrive at the figure of 8.38? Halfway between England and Wales and Scotland
it's the average between Scotlands 14.26 and England/ Wales 2.75.... but it should be 8.505...I added wrong
You do know what an average between to figures is? I came up with the average murder rate per 100,000.
That convieniently ignores the fact that England and Wales have more than 10 times the population of Scotland, so the statistics will be much closer to the England and Wales figure for the whole.
Acutully the UK is the one that "conveinuently ingore's" the fact that Scotland is a part of the UK in it's stats. Why not list the stats as a whole of UK? Afraid of the results is my answer
The FBI figures for 2000 give the figure of murder victims as 13,230, not the number of offenders
You think the number of murder vicims is going to match the number of offenders? Mutliple murders per some offenders
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it's the average between Scotlands 14.26 and England/ Wales 2.75..
That's not how statistics works. You want a weighted average, this number means nothing.
ra
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Acutully the UK is the one that "conveinuently ingore's" the fact that Scotland is a part of the UK in it's stats. Why not list the stats as a whole of UK? Afraid of the results is my answer
Scotland is listed separately because is has it's own legal system which separate from that used in the rest of the UK. The Scots seem to like it that way. If you don't take the trouble to research these things I suggest you refrain from making statements. Just because you watched Braveheart doesn't mean you know anything about the relationship between the different member states in UK.
As nashwan and others pointed out the polulation of Scotland is only 10% of the whole UK population so averaging between England and Wales and Scotland produces a highly distorted figure.
The figures show that while the UK has more crime than the US but has less murders which what you would expect as firearms are far less prevalent in the UK than the US.
I'm not suggesting the US should change it's laws on firearms: that is the business of the US citizens and I'd assume that if they wanted things changed then it would have happened already. Also it would seem to be impractical : all that would happen is that millions of firearms would become illegal but they wouldn't disappear overnight. However one of things I assume the US is willing to accept for prevalence of guns in US society is more gun crime.
The interesting comparison is with Switzerland where most households have military grade weapons (because of the way thier military reserve system works), but gun crime is very low. Crime in general is very low so maybe that is the heart of it - the Swiss are a very orderly people. So it is possible to have guns in society but a very low rate of murders.
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Lol. Nuke, Go find yourself 'Statistics for dummies'.
Taking the 1998 Eng/Wa, 1998 Sco and 1996 NI.
Actual homicides work out at
Eng - 1.45 / 100k
Sco - 1.86 / 100k
NI - 3.99 / 100k
Average figure is 1.509 / 100k
(thats 887 total murders and total population 58,782,983)
Add attempted muder and you get 3.85 /100k btw
Pei beat me to it. Scotland has limited self rule. NI has it's on/off reletionship with self rule. Both have certain areas where their police force is different to England&Wales.
Gatso
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Lol. Nuke, Go find yourself 'Statistics for dummies'
OK, here you go
UK: England Wales Interpol 1998 2.75 homide rate per 100,000
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Statistics/ICS/1998/UKEnglandWales1998.pdf
UK Scotland Interpol 1998 , 14.26 homicides per 100,000
http://www.interpol.com/Public/Statistics/ICS/1998/UKScotland1998.pdf
UK Nothern Ireland 6.41, 1996 Interpol homicides per 100,000
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Statistics/ICS/1996/UKNorthernIreland1996.pdf
Average is 7.80 when N.I. is included, 8.5 when only Scotland/Wales England
By the way, Scotland is part of the UK regardless of it's limited self rule or not.
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Wrong again Nuke! Keep trying.
Hint: as already stated you can't just add the the three figures together and divide by three. Doesn't work like that. Go with raw numbers.
England/Wales
Population 52,010,160
Murders 752
Attempted Murders 676
Murders / 100k 1.45
Scotland
Population 5,120,000
Murders 95
Attempted Murders 635
Murders / 100k 1.86
NI
Population 1,652,823
Murders 40
Attempted Murders 66
Murders / 100k 3.99
Totals:
Population 58,782,983
Murders 887
Attempted Murders 1377
Murders / 100k 1.509
Murders+attempted /100k 3.85
Clearer?
Gatso
(All figures are from the three links you posted).
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Gatso, show me the stats and give a link.
And, attempted murders are not murders.... you in there? "knock knock..." An attemped murder means nobody died...get it?
Number of cases know to police is the number of murders.
So, using what is know as a brain and the listed stats:
UK England, Wales Population 52,010,160 murders 1428 = 2.75 per 100,000
Scotland Population 5,112,00, murders 730 = 14.26
same goes for NI stats.
I guess you dont understand how to read the stats on the site
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And, attempted murders are not murders.... you in there "knock knock" An attemped murder means nobody died...get it?
Yes I do. Evidently you do not.
Using the Scotland doc as an example. First column shows - 'Number of cases known to the police' 730
Next column shows - 'Attempts %' 87%
730 total. 87% of which were attempted murder. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out 95 murders and 635 attempted murders.
Works the same for the other two documents.
Gatso
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87% failure rate? That's the problem with not having enough guns. You guys need some practice. :D
By the way, why is attempted murder a lesser offense than full blown murder? That's like the judge saying, "Come back when you can hit something."
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i just sit and look at all this and wonder "what does it all mean"? its all numbers people. it means nothing in real life, there are always discrepencies and of course HUMAN ERROR. obviously none of you are wrong here, and should continue analyzing numbers in front of your computer. on the other hand, those of us who realize it is all just numbers will go out and do our best to stop violence with actions.
wait i just wasted 20 minutes reading this, dang :rolleyes:
oh yea, one more thing i hope you realize, the victims that provede those stats arent just numbers to their loved ones.
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http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/statistics23.pdf
This document backs up the Interpol figures for 1998. Page 104 gives a figure of 748 homocides in England/Wales.
Have a nice day Nuke.
Shark, I totally agree. The only reason I'm still here is because there has yet to be a single correct number or fact posted by the thread starter. The numbers are useful for comparitive purposes only if they are correct.
Gatso
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I thought you didn't want anymore anti country threads, Nuke. Yet you decided to try and bash the UK although some what unsuccesfully.
Instead if bashing the UK you have just made yourself look like a tard that can't do Maths.:D
Ohwell better luck next time Nuke.:p
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Nuke:
Statistics for Dummies - Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764554239/qid=1037608557/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-2646373-9370505?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
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NUKE. I'm a little short of time this morning, but I repeat my quote of the link as you apparently did not read it in my Dubya thread.
- http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hosb601.pdf
Open the above link, and turn to page 10. The document was published May 2001, but contains data through to the end of 1999. Thrila, Gatso, Nashwan, Pei & Swoopy are right - and you can't just add up numbers and extrapolate averages the way you did.
Some Americans on this board like to cite that our crime has "rocketed" since the 1997 gun ban. From 1997 to 1998 the number of homicides rose by 2. Looking to page 12 of the Home Office document, you will see that the United States has more violent crime than any other country in the list.
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Nuke, I just wanted to add some reasoned thoughts to this interesting and illuminating thread.
a)you're a dingbat.
b)however many people get murdered, whereever they get murdered, they're usually killed by someone they know. Got nothing *at all* to do with guns, gun crime, banning guns etc.
c)you're a dingbat
d)avoid being murdered, slaughter your family. (premptive strike)
e)you're a dingbat
er...that's it
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so... even the murderers are incompetent in the Uk? Probly all lucas workers.
lazs
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Beetle,
You are wearing your feelings of cultural superiority on your sleeve. In addition, you are reaching the wrong conclusions based on the "official data" you are so fond of quoting.
As a famous man once said "There are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics."
The mere presence of firearms does not guarantee that a society will become violent. Homicide rates in shooting-conscious Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland are extremely low compared to the U.S. That fact alone casts doubt on your conclusion that the presence of large numbers of firearms leads to the high homicide rate of the U.S.
The population of the U.S. is almost five times that of the U.K. In addition, we are much more culturally diverse. If you study the demographics of crime in the U.S. closely enough, certain "trends" will become evident. Much of the violent crime in our country is concentrated in specific ethnic or cultural groups. African-Americans are much more likely than European-Americans to be the victims of homicide or other violent crimes. In our politically correct culture, no one wants to draw the wrong kind of conclusion from that fact. Nevertheless, the fact remains that if the crimes from that cultural group were left out of the equation, the violent crime rate of the U.S. would appear much lower than it does.
Violent crime rates in the U.S. have not always been as high as they are today. The onset of the drug culture during the 1960s, and the turf wars between rival gangs for control of the drug trade in the inner city areas led to a drastic upswing in every category of crime.
The problems associated with drugs and Black-on-Black crime would remain even if every gun in the U.S. magically disappeared. They might even become worse. Criminals and psychos will always find a way.
Do you remember the incident last year when an idiot threw a one gallon molotov cocktain into a bunk house filled with teenage boys in a south African country one night and killed 50 of them? The nut cases and criminals WILL find a way.
Regards, Shuckins
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guess if we sent all of our "diversity" over there then we would halve our murder rate while doubling theirs... not only that but... with our murderers over there they would raise the dismal Uk murder per attempt stats. Nothing like a little American can do attitude to bring those brit stats up.
lazs
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guess if we sent all of our "diversity" over there then we would halve our murder rate while doubling theirs
Do you think Britain doesn't have it's criminal classes? You think muggings and street robberies are committed equally by all social groups, or by the inner city poor?
so... even the murderers are incompetent in the Uk? Probly all lucas workers.
Perhaps it's because they don't have guns. After all, any idiot can kill someone with a gun, no matter how "culturally diverse" they are.
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Brits kill each other by more humane means than guns.... they are civilized.
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You folks in the UK are more than welcome to keep your non gun policies, while we here, will keep the ability to defend ourselves as our Constitution so rightly provides....
Btw, can I interest you in any anti-gun liberals for your parliament??? (points to Clintons, Gore, and Jackson)
;)
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nash... are you saying that if say... we were able to round up every single black and send them to england that our rate per hundredthousand of murders wouldn't drop by at least half and theirs increase by double or more? Are you saying that the "gangstas" in the U.S. would commit less murders if the people around them couldn't get guns?
I don't want this to happen but... if it did our rate would drop by more than half. I would rather keep what we have and put up with a few people killing each other... OTOH... if we did send all the "gangstas" over there they might realize that they were on a tiny little island and couldn't get off without paperwork and they might behave themselves... also... if they had to talk like brits they might feel to silly to be "bad bellybutton gangstas".
lazs