Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Urchin on November 18, 2002, 06:28:04 PM
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First- I thought I read somewhere that the big rocket tubes were jettisonable. They aren't in AH. Could someone confirm or deny that for me? I can't remember where I read it.
Second- How close would you need to be to actually do heavy damage to a bomber? Would it have to be a direct hit?
I ask because we got bored today and went to the DA to 'practice' firing rockets at bombers. Everyone except me managed to hit at least once, the results are quite satisfying when you do (all the bombers will die if you get a direct hit on the lead bomber, seems like 2 bombers will die if you hit one of the back bombers).
We saw 6-7 direct hits, and all of them killed at least 1 (and actually, all except 1 hit killed at least 2 bombers). I managed to land 3-4 'hits' from 1.3-1.5k out, but none of them actually killed any bombers. All they did was ping the bomber when the rocket exploded by a bomber. Would it take a direct hit from one of those rockets to kill a bomber?
I would like to have the ability to jettison the rocket tubes if it could be done in real life, it would make the rockets a lot more user friendly. They really mess the performance up hanging off the wings like that.
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There was a pretty big thread about jettisoning those tubes in this very same BB.
When was it? 6-12 months ago? IIRC also Pyro did post to that topic.
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Found one other thread so far
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Interesting info about the WGr21
I just got a copy of an original FW190D9 handbook and to my surprise it included a section containing much usefull info about teh WGr21.
1st to say, the D9 could be equiped with the WGr21 just as the A8 or A5.
But no to the more intersting information.
The launch tubes for the WGr21 could be jettisoned.
So when a plane using the WGr21 was attacked by fighter, the pilot could jettison the whole WGr21 installation to get his "clean" fighter condition back.
This was done very easily just using a little switch in the cockpit.
I would find that an interesting option for AH. This would also lead to more FW pilots flying with the rockets attached, cause before a fighter vs. fighter battle they can get rid of that extra weight.
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take care
Naudet
Black Adders
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No replies to it though. Was posted back in February of 2002 (boy, that looks like I spelled it wrong, doesn't it?)
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well that would make sense, even BIG AT-cannons assembled in gondolas in hs-129 were jettisonable.
Better lose some equipments than whole plane.
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Found another reference in the big thread on the 190 roll rate
""(The third fire button was called "B2-Knopf", by the way. In the depicted aircraft, which is equipped with the W.Gr 21 control panel, it would be used for firing the rockets. The explanation on the web site unfortunately mistakes the W.Gr 21 launch tube jettison switch for the firing switch, but the German label "Absprengsch." clearly indicates its function.)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Pyro, Hitech? Can you make it so we can jettison the WGR rocket tubes?
Maybe make it like RATO? Where after we shoot the rockets the tubes fall off. Or maybe make it so if we 'secondary fire' with rockets selected when we dont have anymore rockets left, we drop the tubes?
I really like the WGR rockets, they are a lot of fun to shoot at bombers. I don't like the tubes hanging off the wings when there aren't anymore rockets in them though, it messes up the planes performance.
P.S. - If the 'bazooka tubes' on the P-47D-25 could be jettisoned in real life, can you make them jettisonable here to?
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I think more of an issue at least for me would be the abaility to select point impact or timed fuse in the hanger like the real fuse was able to do.
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Our fuse is both though. It will go off on contact with an enemy plane. Lazer, Ely, Rugby, and Fork all landed direct hits on bombers we were flying in the DA and wiped out either 2 or 3 bombers in the formation. This was from a range of 700-800 yards.
I, on the other hand, was shooting from 1.2-1.4k out (and missing every single time lol). I managed to get a few 'prox' hits as the warhead went off, I think explodes after it travels 1.3 to 1.4k. It seems to be a lot more deadly if it actually hits though (explosion-wise)- we saw 5-6 direct hits that killed multiple bombers, as opposed to my 2-3 hits where it blew up near a bomber but did not kill it.
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I was under the impreshion it was timed, having fired it ag GV's and hard objects with no aparenet effect, since it apears to be timed spead would be a factor in the distance it goes off at, both you and the target spead of course, this would determine what distance it exploded at hince the variable. I to have goten hits with it in Air to air as well as grpund to air but only because the rockets hapened to expode close enough to the plane to cause damage, same with the GV.I got lucky it exploded right above and M8, and you know how easy they are to kill:)
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You could have missed, and the blades of grass the rocket kicked up on impact would have a good chance to kill an M8 within 2 kilometers or so.
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lol
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You know whats realy odd about this weapon in AH, the bright idea somebody had was to use it aganst the bombers so that they could break up the bomber boxes by firing them into the formations outside of the effective range of the 50 cal weapons, D 1.4 or 1.2 is the effective range of these weapons in AH.
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I agree Brady, what wasn't considered an effective range for .50 cal with the LW, is in AH. Probally because our B17s have air shocks, and the guns don't vibrate and there is 0 turblance and in-flight jolts so aiming is rather easy.
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"Absprengsch." is "blast off switch" in english, so make the WGr21s jettisonable !!1111 ;)
Me want !
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Puuunnntt.... please someone at HTC respond.
0001000 if you will not make the tubes jettisonable, 1110111 if you will.
Thanks :D
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Agree with Urchin. I think they should just "drop off" like the Rato after they are spent.
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Urchin
Our fuse is both though. It will go off on contact with an enemy plane. Lazer, Ely, Rugby, and Fork all landed direct hits on bombers we were flying in the DA and wiped out either 2 or 3 bombers in the formation. This was from a range of 700-800 yards.
Hmmmm. When was this? I've been trying to get these rockets to do damage since they 1st appeared in AH but have never succeeded.
My own experience is as follows: I have never observed an impact explosion, no matter what I aim at. This includes the ground and buildings. The only way the rockets explode for me is purely time-based. They always explode a constant time after launch, but ONLY if they haven't hit anything beforehand. This being the case, the range seems to be a function of speed. As a result, I made many practice offline hops using the .target XXXX command until I learned at what range they explode if you've matched speeds with a B17 (about 1200m), and how to aim so as to hit a B17 at that range.
I wasn't able to find a volunteer target drone until this year's AH Con. And the results were highly disappointing. This guy let me match speeds with him and watched from the tail gunner position as I fired at the range I had determined. While it looked to me like I was getting bursts right on him, he got nothing at all. No damage, nor did he even see the rocket trails or the explosions. He kept asking me if I was shooting. When I ran out of rockets, I tried the guns and they worked fine. He shot back and his worked fine. So I had to conclude that the rockets just don't work at all.
HT of course was at the Con. So after the above fiasco, I managed to catch him in a 1/2way sober moment and pumped him for info on the rockets. Why couldn't my target even see me launch them? What are the launch parameters? What's the best point of aim? Is there any way to get an impact explosion or is it all timed? But HT just said that he put them in the game so long ago he didn't remember anything about them.
All that aside, I think it's kinda strange the rockets do NOT explode on contact with the ground. That's what they were designed to do, after all. The things were just ground-to-ground rockets hung under planes, they weren't designed for air-to-air work. And most German time fuzes were combination time and impact.
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The only visible explosion by the WGr rockets is when the time fuse detonates in the air. Every other impact is invisible but there: it kills Mxx vehicles easily, Flaks and Panzers lose engine or turret in the FP's case, and bombers blow up on impact, all at once if close enough; it is not very surprising as a well placed 10 rocket salvo with the D30 for example has done the same with 3-4 hits on the center and 1 on one of the side drones of a B17 box.
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I been in AH forever, and I just found out last week that those damn rkts are for aircraft :-( I been shooting at GV's and buildings, saying wtf , why aren't these things exploding.
I since stopped using them, I might take them up more if they would fall off. All aircraft that had them, should lose them after firing. So are the ones on the jug for Aircraft also?
Booky
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No Booky the only Rockets in Ah that ar for air to air are the German one's.
That is the German ones have a timed fuse so that they will airburst.
The reality of it is that the German fuse on those rockets had a selector on it to pick either impact or timed detonation, they were oraginaly used in the Air to ground role, and were later adopted to air or air to ground, depending on Mishion. If they were to be used for air to air the ground crewman set the fuse to the timed seting, if they were to used for air to ground he simple set the selector to air to ground.
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punt..
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I think I have a great idea.
Not totally relevant for this thread, but since I've been tinkering with the map editor, I found out the objects, even planes, can be placed stationary above ground.
So...
If I make a small training map with a formation of B17s stationary over a target, with a plane spawn point in the air nearby, wouldn't it be possible to help people with easy A2A rocket training/testing??
Of course, the problem would be that the target is stationary, and timing the closure rate with the rockets would be very hard.. but at least it might help with training for aiming trajectories.. right??
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Well, everyone else was saying to aim it like a 30mm round. Everyone else hit. I don't fire 30mm out at ranges of 700-800 yards, but that is where they were hitting at. I totally missed every time lol.
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Kweassa,
Could you place a stationary A8/110G2 behind the buff box and be able to change it's distance and alt? That could really nail down the whole rocket issue! Might be a good overall training aid if you could interchange the ac!
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I was kinda thinking about placing three types of buffs in line abreast at 10k, with the plane spawn point at 15k 6000 yards behind..
I've run into some trouble now, and would have to ask the more experienced terrain builders.. ;)
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Bump?