Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: davidpt40 on November 20, 2002, 04:08:22 AM
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What aircraft currently in service do you think holds the distinction of being the best air to air fighter in the world?
My vote goes for the Mig29. A light-weight fighter comparable to the F16 in maneuverability, yet boasting the offensive fire power to equal the F-15.
The Mig29 has the capability to fire IR missles and guide them with a helmet mounted sensor, while U.S. aircraft do not have this.
Top speed is Mach 2.3. Faster than the '16. However, the F15 can do Mach 2.5 at sea level (at least thats what one website said). If true, the '15 is one bad mother.
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Su37 "Super Flanker" would win any dogfight. Don't know about it's arnament though. Think it would be about the same as for the other Flankers...
EDIT: oh, missed out on the "in service" part of your post. The Su37 is not in service yet, is it?
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i've read in a number of places that the SAAB JAS 39 Gripen is the most advanced fighter in use today, but winning a dogfight in the present day probably has more to do w/ smart weapons, electronic countermeasures, radar avoidance, etc than aircraft performance
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Gripen carries mostly Nato weapons. Here's one carrying amraam missiles.
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f-15 has like a 99-1 k/d ratio... or something like that, and the f-15 is a pretty old plane.
It all comes down to training I guess.
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Originally posted by NUKE
f-15 has like a 99-1 k/d ratio... or something like that.
It all comes down to training I guess.
and probably since the f-15 has seen more action than most other modern jets.
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Originally posted by NUKE
f-15 has like a 99-1 k/d ratio... or something like that, and the f-15 is a pretty old plane.
I wonder how long it takes to Saddam to cry it perked! :D
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If topic is best fighter, F-15 is hard to beat, even at 30 years old.
I just looked up it's combat record.
This from Boeing's web site: The F-15 Eagle has a perfect combat record of 101 victories and zero defeats. F-15s downed four Mig-29 fighters during the recent Balkan conflict and 33 of the 35 fixed-wing aircraft Iraq lost in air combat during Operation Desert Storm. During the Balkan conflict, the F-15E was the only fighter able to attack ground targets around the clock, in all weather conditions.
This more recent from af.mil news The F-15 Eagle turned 30 years old July 27 and currently boasts a combat record of 104 kills without a loss, a score that includes Israeli and Saudi Arabian air force F-15s
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The F-15 is the best AtA fighter today in record.
It is virtually a fricken long range radar with long range missiles on wings. :) Only the Tomcat rivals it, but its Navy and therefore it stays glued to the carriers without seeing much action.
I would be very interested to see how a "duel" between an F14 and and F15 would turn out. Personally I think the F14 would win.
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Gripen is the best in service I'd think. If you want record though, nothing beats the F-15, except maybe a 190A5.
F14 vs F15 - F14 would get spanked. Phoenix missiles won't hit a nimble F15 at long range, and in a dogfight the F15 has everything on the F14. Except one pair of eyes vs two, and that's not true if we're talking the F15E.
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I once talked to a Eurofighter test pilot. He was saying that on simulations of combat survivability, the Eurofighter beat the F-16 into the dust, was better than the F-15 by a decent margin but was outclassed by the F-22.
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I'd say the Predator, as they're now just toying with mounting it with ATA missles, and the fact that it can sustain 20 g turns indefinately,(no pilot) and it can outturn any aircraft in the world. :)
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I think that Superman can whoop all over Spiderman.
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not since he fell off his horse.
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I think that Superman can whoop all over Spiderman.
(http://www.drewhastings.com/gayspiderman.gif)
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F101 Voodoo
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No, no, no!!
The F-102, but only in the hands of a true war hero like Dubya!
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Originally posted by Kanth
not since he fell off his horse.
Oh man! Cold...real cold (I like it)
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
I once talked to a Eurofighter test pilot. He was saying that on simulations of combat survivability, the Eurofighter beat the F-16 into the dust, was better than the F-15 by a decent margin but was outclassed by the F-22.
Mighty big difference between a simulation and real life.
My money is on American iron driven by American pilots....ya see, we use our toys:)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
No, no, no!!
The F-102, but only in the hands of a true war hero like Dubya!
Ya know...it just dawned on me.
You must be a sad and bitter little fella to always have to whine or dig the President or Republicans or Conservative or folks who don't think like you or.......sheesh...where do I stop?
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CF-104s did very well against F-15s, or so my old man said. :D
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well, if you're gonna count the F22 then you should count Su37. And then we have a winner. Have you not seen what that aircraft can do? Sommersaults and stuff. I have a couple of videos if you'd like.
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Originally posted by Rude
Ya know...it just dawned on me.
You must be a sad and bitter little fella to always have to whine or dig the President or Republicans or Conservative or folks who don't think like you or.......sheesh...where do I stop?
Ya know, that thing you think was a dawn was a dusk. Go back and read everything I've ever written then come back and we will play, mister conclusion jumper.
Freakin Republicrats just can't take a joke anymore. sheesh.
And who you calling little? shortstuff.
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Manoeuvrs like "Pugatshev's Cobra" are more suitable as a defensive moves than offensive.
IIRC also F-18 is capable to do moves like that with reprogrammed flight computer, in airshow here in Finland pilot had orders not to show what they could do with Hornets.
Anyway manoeuvrs like "Cobra" are pretty impressive, looks like that plane has quite good power to weight ratio :cool:
btw I was looking when Russian MiG-23s were in airshow first time in "western world", year was 1978 :)
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Su30
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Беркут
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(http://www.lsfm.org/images/P-38.gif)
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Luftwaffe Mig29s regularly beat F16s in WVR (within visual range) dog fights. The helmet mounted sight allows 45 degree heat seaking missle shots. F15s and F16s dont have this feature.
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F-15 vs F-18. Everything else is a flying target and future scrap metal.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Ya know, that thing you think was a dawn was a dusk. Go back and read everything I've ever written then come back and we will play, mister conclusion jumper.
Freakin Republicrats just can't take a joke anymore. sheesh.
And who you calling little? shortstuff.
I'm sorry....thought you threw in a Dubya dig....I'm sure that I have misinterpreted the tone of your last 100 posts....my mistake.
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F15 has never lost a fight never been shot down in combat. It has several mig29 and su27 kills. F16 will allways be my favorite it just looks like it could kill sitting on runway.
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I think that the lack of F15 losses are due to American pilots being the best trained and smartest in the world. Seriously.
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F-15s shot down Serb and Iraqi flown MiG-29s. Both Iraq and Serbia didn't have top equipment for their planes and few years of arms embargo behind them as well.
Look at it this way - if US sold F-15s to a 3rd world contry, then imposed arms embargo. Few years pass, F-15s are hardly serviceable, only couple of flights per month, poor pilots etc.. Then Russia attacks them with MiG-29s, Su-27s, whatever, brand new, trained Russian pilots, new missiles etc.
The outcome could be quite different.
Just a thought ;)
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Here's a question:
Why don't more westrer countires actuallyu go out and buy Russian equipment? I'd imagine that the latest Russian fighter is a heck of a lot cheaper than US stuff, and you are therefore getting more for your money. Canada, in particular, needs to start thinking about replacing its CF18s at some point in the near future - why not pick up a bunch of Mig29s, stuff them with Western electronics, and save some $$$..
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One reason why FiAF did drop MiG-29 from list when we were buying new fighters was that it wasn't guaranteed that manufacturer could keep updating plane's systems next 20 years.
That wouldn't be a problem if you were going to use those fighters only 5-10 years but when you're planning to use them longer period you wanna be sure that manufacturer is able to produce spareparts and upgrades.
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Originally posted by Stridr417
Here's a question:
Why don't more westrer countires actuallyu go out and buy Russian equipment? I'd imagine that the latest Russian fighter is a heck of a lot cheaper than US stuff, and you are therefore getting more for your money. Canada, in particular, needs to start thinking about replacing its CF18s at some point in the near future - why not pick up a bunch of Mig29s, stuff them with Western electronics, and save some $$$..
It would make you dependant of (un)reliability of aircraft industry on the other side of the globe, and government not exactly sharing every opinion with yours. Not so heathly if you want to have your planes fly all the time at 100%.
Not to mention, protection of your industry, pilot training and national pride ;).
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Originally posted by Stridr417
Here's a question:
Why don't more westrer countires actuallyu go out and buy Russian equipment? I'd imagine that the latest Russian fighter is a heck of a lot cheaper than US stuff, and you are therefore getting more for your money. Canada, in particular, needs to start thinking about replacing its CF18s at some point in the near future - why not pick up a bunch of Mig29s, stuff them with Western electronics, and save some $$$..
The aircraft are cheap. The spares are what'll cost.
As for the CF18, weren't those built in Canada?
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Adequately trained pilots in soviet mig29 (not the export models used by most countries) would prove a formidable match for anything . Even the monkey models that the germans got kick arse .
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too bad they dont have air-gladiators at the paris air show, we could settle this issue
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(http://exn.ca/news/images/SW-tiefighter.jpg)
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Originally posted by NUKE
This more recent from af.mil news
The F-15 Eagle turned 30 years old July 27 and currently boasts a combat record of 104 kills without a loss, a score that includes Israeli and Saudi Arabian air force F-15s
...and USAF lost only 79 Sabres in Korea.
USAF has a very funny understanding of "combat losses". Any plane that have hit the ground on friendly territory isn't considered a combat loss.
"Boasts" is a right word ;)
Syrian pilots scored several kills of F-15s in 1982. I bet SAMs have shot down even more.
But anyway, F-15 is probably the most successfull fighter plane still in service.
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Just found out this: http://www.aeronautics.ru/fakemig.htm
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Here is the best fighter ever past, present or future.