Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rv6 on November 20, 2002, 05:41:27 AM
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Hi all..
In my book AH is the best. (long story short,, I need not preach to the choir about great graphics, flight models, massive multiplayer coolness, etc)
But, can someone give a comparison to a good #2 & #3 WWII sim?
I actually got bored one day, and loaded the MS incarnation called "Fighter Ace".. It was cartoonish and generally sucked. I wouldn't play it online for Free!
Never tried newly released CFS-3, but read MANY BBS comments that it is a stinker. (even from some die-hard MSCFS fans!)
I've never seen IL2,, but heard a lot of good things about it, and it's online community. Visited their website and it kinda' reminded me of the MS CFS2 Online site (again, not close to AH)
Can someone in "the know" give a short comparison to AH for IL2?, CFS3? etc..
Rv6
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For me AH is best....nowadays.
Il-2 close second
Rest...Falcon 4.0, but I really enjoy WW2 airwar.
Yesterday, I log into Il-2 online (Hyperlobby) for the first time. It is a wonderful sim. It is not comparable to AH since its't not MMOG, and this is, by far, the most important thing for me. Nothing replaces the thrill (perkwise) of seeing a bunch of lemmings comming to your position (j/k) :D
If I want to compare apples to apples, AH in H2H mode and Il-2 online, Il-2 wins hands down due to incredibly good graphics with reasonable powerful hardware to move them (I ride an Athlon 900 Mhz. with Ati 8500, 512 Mb RAM) and comparable flight models.
Cheers,
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There is nothing to compare to AH right now in the MMOG stakes. Offline though I'd have to say go buy yourself a copy of IL-2. I recently bought CFS III and while it has many nice points I still find myself going back to IL-2 for a smooth running well put together sim. CFS III does'nt feel optimised, both CFS III and IL-2 have some superb eye candy but CFS III stutters and farts as you fly around on my modestly spec'd system (AMD 1.2GHz 266FSB, 512MB and Geforce 3 64MB video card) where are IL-2 with all it's graphical splendour runs smoothly. I did'nt like CFS III at all when I bought it and considered taking it straight back but it has grown on me and the dynamic campaign looks very interesting.
Multiplay in both are leagues apart. I've tried playing in CFS III but the lack realistic stalls and the ridiculous non WWII planes they put in P55?!?!? mean that you log on to find some muppet ruining a good dogfight by zipping in and out in his jet, on top of that there is the stupid inflight AWACS which is a real turn off. By contrast IL-2 is very enjoyable multiplayer if you wish to have a quick dogfight. Admitedley Ubisoft's onlien gaming system does'nt compare well with MS's built in system that runs very well but you can download a free online game finding program called Hyperlobby (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) which the majority of the community use to set up and play online. Once in a game it's smooth and problem free.
If I had to recommend one of them to you I'd have to recommend you get IL-2 and then download the latest patches. CFS III is good but there are too many niggling problems to be able to recommend it over the likes of IL-2.
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What my 2 pre-writers said.
What I like about Il-2 the most is the damag-model and the flight-dynamics.
The gfx are better, but Il-2 doesnt have the problems that come with MMP. So you cannot compare that.
The other 2 attributes I mentioned are not in this class.
It was theoretically possible to take the same models for AH. If HTC or their customers wanted todo so is, err, questionable.
This is not for the FM. This seems to be very good and seemingly better than AH's.
But the DM is not as dichitomically as AH's. This means that you have to hit plenty with guns and cannons to bring someone down. I cannot say this is closer to RL, but it is the direction RL goes apparently. I believe to have often read that AH's DM is too strong. Meaning the Cannons hit too hard. 5 .50 hits rip off a wing quite often. I know it is possible for this to happen, but VERY unlikely.
But if you are trying to look somewhere else, and if it can be a SP or MP-Game with little playerbase, take a look at Il-2. In this genre most probably the best out there today. By far.
OK, have fun then!
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Speaking of CFSIII does it seam to anyone else like the force feedback is backwards?? Seams like when I should be getting back presure I am getting forward pressure. It also seems like I am getting random jerks here and there for no reason.
Avid
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The title of your post said other sims, not necessarily combat air sims so I will tell you what I like for grins and giggles when not playing AH.
I like MS FlightSimulator 2002. I own the pro version and find hours of enjoyment flying "realisticaly". In other words, having full control of the engine management and flying VORs and NDBs to get somewhere. There are also thousands of aircraft available for download and you can enhance your experience flying just about anything. The FM is totaly dependent on who designed it. If you don't care for a particular one you can edit it to suit your taste. Most of the good ones are really good, a lot are mediocre and some are just downright fantasy. It also comes with (the pro version) a program that would allow you to design and build your own plane. It also has a virtual cockpit mode that feels very much like flying AH.
The other sim I like a lot and spend a lot of time in is Motor City Online. A car sim. Physics of driving are pretty good though the damage model is a bit arcadish. It allows you to build up a car using all kinds of parts. Engine parts are numerous as are the the parts to make up the car. You have to earn money to buy these parts with and you do that by racing your favorite rod. The time frame for these cars is 1932 to 1973 with a large selection in between. More info can be had at http://motorcityonline.com .
As far as WWII flight sims are concerened though, AH pretty much fills the bill for me.
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Have been thinking about buying IL-2 for awhile now . How is off line play with it, ie: are there campaigns and such that would make it worth the purchase strictly as an offline pursuit?
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Indeed, there are, Aztec. But if I were you, I'd wait until February when Forgotten Battles will be released. It's now going to be a stand-alone product (not just an expansion) with 2 CDs. You'll get all the value of the original, plus all the new stuff (including front lines, better campaign, etc.).
If you've waited this long, hang tight for a few more months.
Cheers,
phaetn
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According to many people who inhabit this board, AH is NOT A WWII SIMULATION. It's not even a simulation. It's an Air Combat GAME using WWII Era Aircraft.
Please note, these are not my words, but the more I read this board, the more exasperated I get.
If and when a true WWII simulation comes along that has the playability of AH, I'm gone. Hopefully, AH will live up to what WWIIOL failed to achieve, but rest assured, from what I've read here, there are many who would not be happy. Will the Mission Arena be the savior? According to some it will be nothing more than a glorified CT.
I certainly hope that's not the case, but we'll have to wait and see.
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sim, game, whatever ... I don't really care to recreate every bit of history.
IL2 rocks.. plain and simple. It is NOT mmog though and that's the big thing for most of us that prefer RL opponents to computer opponents.
In the end, the thing that makes this game/sim fun for me is competition. Competition with other RL people.
so what if this is a game or sim or whatever.. I am still competing, cooperating and interacting with real people from all over the world. That's what counts to me.
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IL-2 is a game that deserves it's place as a classic of flight-sim games, a milestone of advancement in quality of flight sim games, and the best WWII flight sim game ever.
There are a few noticeable glitches: some aspects of the FM are weird, wild or exaggerated compared to AH.. and the IL-2 community is.. well.. I'm sorry to say generally full of dorks(since IL-2 was an unexpected success that drew a lot of attention from people that haven't been interested in flight sim games before, the topics and attitudes in IL-2 boards are just plain silly most of the times. While it's understandable, it's still boring...)
However, gunnery, while it is a bit excessively increased in difficulty due to wacky trim functions and super sensitivity towards stick configurations... as a whole, is the best I've seen. "Get in close, than get closer" is a word which really has some meaning in that sim.
The damage model is simular to AH, or any other kind of air combat sim for that matter... but the damage levels are gradual, and it is visually represented. Another important thing is IL-2 models the difference in the quality of the rounds fired hitting the target. A grazed hit and a direct hit differs greatly in the level of damage they do, and this goes for all the weapons, including 20mms and 30mms. While sometimes this method brings out quirky results(like 30mms doing almost no damage from time to time..), generally it is more convincing than the AH model.
The FM is also excellent. The planes handle very simularly as in AH, but however, my impression is that the E-loss is a bit high in maneuvering. Thus, planes with better engines and better turn capabilities tend to have a noticeable edge over planes that mainly engage in a cautious, E-wise manner. (The blasted Yaks and La-5FNs..) One problem is the high-alt FM is haywire, and the producers admitted it.
...
All in all, it is a must for people who enjoy WWII air combat games.
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IMO..
Fighter Ace . Its pure arcade.
MSCFS. Same crapola as Fighter Ace, just prettier pictures.
IL-2 . Perhaps the one sim that rivals AH. I find many things in it that are...odd. One thing I will give IL-2 is that it gives a much more "feel" that you're really flying. Maybe AH could get this effect if they added head movement to follow the plane's movements (aka, you bank to one side you view of the cockpit tilts to the other side, pull up and your view slides downwards a bit.) I dont like their FM nor their gunnery model though. Damage model here is superior to AH.
WW2OL. If you like to open your canopy, it rules. Aside from that, its 1000X more arcade FM than the MS products first listed. Like IL-2, this sim does have more of a "feel" of flight, even though its arcadish to heck.
Red Baron: Its a classic. If you dont have it, you shouldnt be allowed to post here. You dweeb.
Jane's . Excellent for non-online playing. Very detailed in micromanagement of radar (F-15E, Longbow series), usually good graphics for their times. Downside is no replay value and even worse limited MP abilities. Its like flipping over the same porn mag issue for over a year. Ask St.Santa for more on this.
Warbirds/Air Warrior . They were great.. until AH came along. Nothing to see here, move along, show's over.. AH's daddy now.
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Nice to see another sim being discussed without turning into a flame
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Would you be so kind as to elaborate on WWIIOL.
I'm tempted to try it, but I've never heard good things about it. I'm wondering if they have th bugs worked out, yet.
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I used to fly "fighter ace", but the new version stunk, so I tried AH. It was very hard to get used to the flight model, but once I got used to it there was no comparing the two. AH is the best hands down. The rest of the squad from fighter ace stayed there because the flight model was to hard for them.
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I can't agree that guns are too strong in AH. In everything I read about ww2 airwar, it is very close to reality. I can give you proves if you want.
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IMHO AH is the most fun in comparison to. AH has best FM, view system and community.
CONs: Graphics need update includign artwork, DM is not bad but need work.
Warbirds 3 or 2.77
PRO's: Has better graphics then AH, S3's
CONS: Almsot to many to say but I'll try. 1. Community in genral sucks, 2. Wild Bill, 3. FM, 4. DM, 5. Lack of development, 6. average population in the main arena is 25-30, 7. squeak,squeak,squeak..this is porked, this plane is "uber" etc.., 8. Connection is unrealiable, 9. each tiem you log on you wonder if its still gonan be there or not.
WWIIOL:
Pro's: Good community, great ideas
Cons': Limited AC, poor connection and frame rate.
IL2:
Pro: Looks great
CON: Is mainly eye candy, limited numbers
Have'nt tried CFS or any of the others so have no comment on them.
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I wish Microprose (Hasbro, or whoever owns them now) would release an updated version of EAW. For offline play, that rocked.
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There is no comparison. For what AH intends to do, it does, and it does it well.
However, Il2 will compliment AH very nicely. It's like Steak and putaters... they just go hand in hand.
Aztec- Offline Campaign play sucks. There ARE numerous end-user made campaigns that are neat, and interesting for some of the newer planes (109E series, I16, new Yaks and MiGs)... and there's a way to generate a random campaign using a 3rd party utility.
The problem with the above is that no matter what, it's a strictly canned campaign. This is the biggest downfall, and the thing that pissed me off the most about Il2. It's a boxed game with only a handful of single missions that are only for a FEW of the planes in the game...
I would suggest, if you can wait until Feb/March 2003, to buy Forgotten Battles when it comes out. It will include all of Il2's planes, plus some of them will have revised 3D models, revised flight model with engine degredation as the altitude increases modelled, many NEW planes, and the biggest/bestest thing: A dynamic campaign system that will not have generated the next mission until you complete the current one. Things that are destroyed/done in the previous mission effect the next mission that will be generated. (More plane types destroyed, less of those types of planes in your area. Objects stay destroyed until they are rebuilt. Wingmen with names and "profiles"<-- # of kills, sorties and medals.. and a few other things that I can't remember).
All in all, Il2 is nice... but if you can wait ~4 months, I would suggest you do so and pick up FB.
-SW
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Thx Phaetn and SWulfe, will take your advice and wait for the release of Forgotten Battles.
! :)
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mcswine wrote
"Warbirds 3 or 2.77
PRO's: Has better graphics then AH, S3's
CONS: Almsot to many to say but I'll try. 1. Community in genral sucks, 2. Wild Bill, 3. FM, 4. DM, 5. Lack of development, 6. average population in the main arena is 25-30, 7. squeak,squeak,squeak..this is porked, this plane is "uber" etc.., 8. Connection is unrealiable, 9. each tiem you log on you wonder if its still gonan be there or not"
in reply
Pros, WB 3 has better graphics, but not WB 2.77 IMHO
Cons, I would say that on the whole the WB community is it's strongest draw and as regards squeak squeak etc, this is a sign IMO of a mature community, sure we/they squeak, but only in an attempt to increase realism as they see it. The connections are I would venture on a par with AH and as for numbers, last night I counted 95 in all arenas, admittedly AH had around 130 at the same time. but quite a few all the same.
Damage Model ? In both "games" bits fly off all over the place, not sure we could quantify which is better or more accurate.
Finally FM, as none of us flew a piston engined a/c in the war (I assume) then who is to say what is correct and what is incorrect, I think the question should be , "which one feels better or more accurately to what we would imagine it should be" ? Having flown in both sims last night for at least 2 hours in each, the EMC in WB3 and the MA in AH, I could only tell you which one I prefer, not which one is correct.
No flames intended at all, and yes it is nice to have a post not descend in to flames revvin.
wipass
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Got pinged into this thread from afar, so blame your fellow pilots if you mind me visiting from WB :)
I recently took the time to enjoy a trial of AH. I found much to like, and little to dislike.
Excepting the head movements and roll inertia, there isn't much difference between WB and AH flight models. Yes, some, but this is supposed to be a short post, and the differences are small next to the similarities.
If you are enjoying AH, I don't think there's another MMO flight sim that would draw you away yet. WB is the same but different, just as AH appears to WBers (excepting occasional flamewars on BBSs).
If you want a #2 sim, try Grand Prix Legends, although you don't get 20mm Hispanos :)
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Originally posted by mcswine
Warbirds 3 or 2.77
PRO's: Has better graphics then AH, S3's
Just a clarification. I keep hearing about S3's in warbirds like this is a unique feature. I get the idea a lot of people don't know that AH has this too - it is called TOD. (Events were you have to be in a squad to play).
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Clarification on AH's TODs (not a flame!): A month or two ago I was looking at the TOD page, and it appeared people were allowed multiple lives from the log reports. Is this the case, or not?
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Originally posted by Bcnu
Clarification on AH's TODs (not a flame!): A month or two ago I was looking at the TOD page, and it appeared people were allowed multiple lives from the log reports. Is this the case, or not?
Not , unless disco.
Don't confuse with CAP event (another completely different event series- which does)
Traditional Events - schedule varies
Snapshots - Single run events Wednesday and Fridays
CAP Events - schedule varies
TOD (American Time Zone) - Fridays
TOD (European Time Slot) - Sundays
There are other single run events. Too many to list - and I wouldn't remeber them all anyway.
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Il-2 is a really cool boxed sim. I much prefer MMOL sims to that genre, but in the boxed sim genre, Il-2 is the king IMHO.
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I think in TOD there is still a rule that you can respawn multiple times in the first 5 or 10 minutes, due to some of the setup problems that were occuring earlier this year. People were getting killed due to a bug.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Il-2 is a really cool boxed sim. I much prefer MMOL sims to that genre, but in the boxed sim genre, Il-2 is the king IMHO.
There is a downloadable IL2 if you want to try before you buy.
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Hey FUNKEDUP,
Ya still "in the know" on TK?
If so, what's the sitrep?
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Originally posted by Rotorian
I wish Microprose (Hasbro, or whoever owns them now) would release an updated version of EAW. For offline play, that rocked.
Check SimHQ.com for some fanfreakingtastic stuff for EAW
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OK this is gonna upset a few AH players....(puts on Flame proof jacket)
I think that AH is THE best online WWII dogfighting sim there is to date.
IL2 is a great game but not as good online
I actually think though (and this is were i get flamed) that WWIIonline has the better flight modle or more realistic flight modle that AH
Reason being is that when flying in WWIIonline (as long as you have a decent system) you REALLY feel like your flying at 200 mph plus. Alot of this is due to the ground terrain and the fact that there is lots of it.
But also if you shut down engines in Aces high, no matter what you are flying, you can GLIDE for miles.
In wwiionline you can also glide a fair way but as you slow down your plane REALLY starts to sink, you really fell like the aircraft has mass and weight.
It fells like you almost have to be at a stand still in AH to stall or sink.
Also i like the way in wwiionline you can scrape the ground with wing tip or slighy bump another aircraft or clip a tree and not instantly EXPLODE, you rock and sway and somtimes loose control but somtimes are able to regain control with maybe minor damage.
On the ground it takes a while for your aircraft to get off the ground and you really feel like your trying to get a ton of aircraft airbourne.
Ah your aircrat seems to be rather light.
Haveing said all that WWIIonline dogfighting dose not compair to that of Aces high for shear enjoyment, why? i dont know it just is that way.
AH is stilll the best WWII dogfighting sim there is, but WWIIonline seem to have things more realistic.
But then what do i know right ?
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Originally posted by Obear1971
Also i like the way in wwiionline you can scrape the ground with wing tip or slighy bump another aircraft or clip a tree and not instantly EXPLODE, you rock and sway and somtimes loose control but somtimes are able to regain control with maybe minor damage.
Warbirds is this way too, and you can hear the scrape.
I do beleive you are the first person I ever heard talk kindly about the ww2online flight model though, I mean ever. (I can't keep a straight face ever since the helicopter 110 film though) :)
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anyone know what the chances are in RL, of a prop driven aluminum or wooden construction plane, say going 200 knotts, scraping the ground and the pilot being able to fly away.. ?
it doesn't sound feasible to me but I have no proof either way
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I think the ground clipping ability in WW2OL stems from an inadequacy not by design. In version 1.66 I took a Blenheim up for a spin. I had to ditch for some reason (memory fails) so as I came down I lowered my gear and proceeded at a speed where normally I'd expect my gear to break to cross a field. I pssed through a line of trees without breaking a thing came to a stop then realised I was not as damaged as I thought...hmm I thought lets give this a try. I throttled up and spun the thing round and taxi's through another set of trees then across a bumpy field and took off undamaged and continued my flight home.
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The plane scraping the ground Wlf? If so... it wouldn't fly away, the prop would be all bent to hell...
The prop edges, there were a couple of instances where planes would scrape their props against other planes, trees, etc, and make it home with a badly mangled prop.. of course they had to fly at low speeds/throttle.
-SW
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kinda what I was thinking Swulfe... (is that short for Sea Wulfe?)
can't imagine how badly a damaged prop would vibrate either!
but how 'bout just a wingtip.. seems to me that it wouldn't matter but I have no data to back that up...
seems it'd still take ya down
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At one point in time, I had WB (2.77 and III), AH and WWIIOL installed on my hard-drive. Right now, I only have WBIII and WWIIOL.
I liked AH a lot - I actually like the graphics although the lack of metric gauges in planes that should have had them threw me off a bit. In the end, I realized it was getting a bit ridiculous subscribing to so many on-line games so I finally closed my account at AH. The primary reason was that my squad was at WBIII and that I liked the combined arms aspect of WWIIOL and I liked the idea of being involved in a persistent war. Had I stuck around long enough in AH to join a squad, I think making this choice would have been a lot more difficult.
My primary complaints about AH were in regards to the three-sided war set-up in the MA and the lack of any real historical match-ups on a regular basis (CT was mainly empty whenever I poked my head in there). I started hanging around here again after I found out about the new mission-oriented arena - is this going to feature historical set-ups or be more of the "everyone flies what they want" thingy? The FM's seemed to be rather generous and certain things like drag seemed to be "undermodeled". Anyway, these are only my perceptions since the closest I've come to flying a WWII aircraft has been in one of these sims. I never experienced any of this "laser gunnery" thing, at least from my end. I think I was a worse marksman in AH than I was in WBIII.
IL-2: I have that on my hard-drive but I've never played it on-line. For me, it's primarily an off-line sim. And as an off-line sim, it doesn't have much replayability because the campaigns are composed of canned missions a la CFS1. However, FB promises to have a campaign system similar to the RB3D system (which, BTW, is IMHO, the BEST campaign engine out there), so I will definitely look it up.
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the mission arena is delayed a bit while HT works on some gameplay issues like side-balancing mechanisms and more strat.
I beleive the idea is to have historically accurate matchups but none of us dweebs really knows for sure.
at least not this dweeb.
Pyro's post:
We are working to finish up 1.11 and get it released as soon as possible. Most of the focus on this version is in quality of gameplay with new additions like side balancing mechanisms and improved smoothing and latency reduction. We did make a change of plans regarding 1.11 and our upcoming development plan and decided to push back the release of the mission arena from 1.11 to the following version. This is going to be something that we want to redefine online simulation with and it warrants some other major renovations to the game to achieve maximum impact. Expect some exciting news following the release of 1.11 about what will be coming in Aces High.
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Yup, short for SeaWulfe....
Just a wingtip? Well, it depends... if it comes into contact with something jutting up from the surface of the ground, it'll rip off or damage the wingtip, and the plane will sway... if you anticipate this with counter-rudder, you *may* survive...
But in the case with most flight sims, people don't usually lightly scrape the ground with a wingtip, and I doubt it would be very possible to do it very lightly in real life. Most times you would just dig the wing into the ground and auger in.
-SW
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Just thought i would pop over here and check this thread out ;)
IL2 is hands down the best offline boxed sim for WWII flight sims you can buy (imho). It has the most to offer in a richly detailed sim from both a graphics viewpoint and flight management. It has a few issues, but its worth the buy. Destined to become one of the classics.
I was a big MSCFS fan. Especially a CFS2 fan, but boy did CFS3 leave me very dissappointed. I am almost regretting that I bought it. Although the missions seem to be pretty good, and may be its only saving grace. Graphics are also pretty nice, and cockpits were pretty well done, imho.
Janes - I think that was a great sim for its day, and every now and then I still like to hop in and fly it. It is getting pretty dated anymore. talking the WWII janes here.
Red Baron - A true classic. Its what got me into flight simming all those years ago.
Red Baron II - Its a decent game, and I still enjoy hopping into it now and then.
DOA - (dawn of Aces) Its the only MMPG for WWI flight simming that I know of. Its pretty good. You can even fly zepplins !! hehe. DOA3 is due out pretty soon, and it looks to be excellent graphically.
WWIIOL - I also thought it did the best at representing actual flight speeds in relationship to the ground. I dont know what tehy did, but when you fly low to the ground there, it is VERY convincing that your doing the speeds you are. FM's seemed pretty good to me. Limited planes, horrible latency issues, tons of bugs, and big system demands made me close my account.
AH - well, no need to talk about that, this is your BBS and all of you know what its all about. I personally didnt care for it in the end(although I still havnt cancelled my account yet), It's more a matter of personal taste then any real AH short-comings. AH does its job well enough, and it is a very good sim. I guess I just feel it is becoming graphically dated, and since I fly the WWII arena in WB3, i don't find the MA setting to my liking, and the equivilent of that arena in AH is kinda dead in comparison to WB.
WB3 - thats my stomping grounds. there was couple posts above that really don't give a very good representation of the sim at all these days, imho they are WAY off base. Just last night there was over 150 players in WB3. Maybe they have a personal reason for not liking it, but honestly those bashes on it are very unfounded these days. IMHO the similiarties between AH and WB are far greater then their differences, and I choose to back WB3 because of the greater potential I feel it can deliver. (Yes it is lacking in some areas yet) Anyways, I only have one long comment regarding WB3 scraping. If you scrape your prop, your done, it will be crunched and you will be without an engine. If you hit your wingtip or other part on the ground you are going to crash and burn. If you are in a fight low and slow, and you ever so gently scrape the lower plane of your wingtip across the ground, it will throw your plane hard in the direction of the scrape. If you are alert, you can recover before you get "smacked" into the ground. It is quite a hair raising experience hehe. I have had it happen to me about 3 or 4 times in the past year. Every time it was an "on the deck" turning stall fight at very low speed. I was able to recover( with a brown stain in my shorts) every time except once (I crashed and burned). Real ? I don't know, it did seem reasonable and real to me based upon the circumstance, and as to the scraping sound, well, it definitly added to the intensity of the situation :)
Thats my 2 cents.
Oh I guess I forgot some of the other old dynamix classics that should get an honorable mention for their day in the sun many moons ago.
Aces over Europe, and Aces of the Pacific. Both great sims for their time :) They rocked once upon a time..what 10 years ago ? hehe
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Fokker's post illustrates a good point.
Most of us (flight simmers) are of the same breed...
we've done our share of boxed games and then 'found' mmog !
each offereing has it's good and bad points and a lot of us just found the game we like.
A lot of us like 'em all, for different reasons.
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Euro times around 7pm-11pm you're lucky to see 35+ in the WB arena's this was one of the reason's I don't fly there as much as I used to do. Strange it went that way because before the boxed release and during the summer (traditionally a low arena population time) it was around 60-80 players during that timezone. The boxed version was released and many including myself had hoped for higher numbers but strangely it went down.
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we're missing one of the old classics...Chuck Yeager "air combat" or whatever the title was. Was great for it's time...still miss the "abbeyville boys".
Actually for now I think that AH has the niche to itself. Amazing how quickly AW & WB's have fallen by the wayside. I'm sure someone will take a run at AH in another year or two.
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Originally posted by humble
Actually for now I think that AH has the niche to itself. Amazing how quickly AW & WB's have fallen by the wayside.
It took over 15 years for AW to 'fall by the wayside' and it was due to lack of interest from EA and not from another MMPOG.
Ack-Ack
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Well, let's see. WW2OL managed to get me and my old time wingie RAFBADER to stray from AH after about 3 years. Personally I love it and yes, they have worked out quite a few bugs which gave it a bad rep and kept at least me from trying it. Not 100% but damn near and well worth a second look. I finally did when I had a connex problem while flying WB and since I had just gotten broadband I thought I'd give it a shot. Haven't regreted it since.
Now, some others mentioned the great graphics in AH and WB. No arguement there but is that what real flight looks like? I don't think so and I've spent over 4000 hrs. as a pilot. What do I find so realistic in WW2OL? In a dogfight the enemy isn't painted onto your view in great and stunning graphics which allow you to almost see every rivet. Instead like real life, where one loses focus, an enemy aircraft can actually escape you by letting it's camouflage fool your eyes (in case nobody's noticed, that the reason for them weird colors). Likewise you can actually escape alive out of a dogfight. Can count on the fingers of half a hand the times I've escaped in either AH or WB when overcome by superior numbers. Over and above that, it gives you a terrain that is amazingly realistic with tons of trees, mountains, rivers, towns and villages. This intense scenery is a real resource hog so if your running on a budget you may not be happy. I run 1 ghz PIII, 512mb RAM and a 128mb nVidia based card and get about 35fps on average vs. 80 when in AH or WB. In addition to very enjoyable flying you additionally have the option of single or multicrewing of various British, French and German tanks, vehicles and boats and a really unique thing, you can play as infantry with various weapons at your disposal e.g. rifles, sub machine guns, AAA, grenades. Only thing I haven't been able to do is stab an enemy. Oh, one last thing the whole thing takes place in 1940 so you will not be jumped by any ME262s while flying your early Spit or Hurc.
Beeg
Originally posted by muckmaw
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on WWIIOL.
I'm tempted to try it, but I've never heard good things about it. I'm wondering if they have th bugs worked out, yet.
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You know something, that's what you know! You know instinctively that there's something that feels right about the FM in WW2OL. Regardless of some obvious glitches when flown to find what's good in it instead of trying to find the negative you will really enjoy yourself. It's amazing and a real compliment to the programmers skill that with such a massive amount of detail the game is playable. You're not imagining things, it's good!!!!
Beeg
P.S. Look me up as Beeg01 on the Axis side.
Originally posted by Obear1971
OK this is gonna upset a few AH players....(puts on Flame proof jacket)
I think that AH is THE best online WWII dogfighting sim there is to date.
IL2 is a great game but not as good online
I actually think though (and this is were i get flamed) that WWIIonline has the better flight modle or more realistic flight modle that AH
Reason being is that when flying in WWIIonline (as long as you have a decent system) you REALLY feel like your flying at 200 mph plus. Alot of this is due to the ground terrain and the fact that there is lots of it.
But also if you shut down engines in Aces high, no matter what you are flying, you can GLIDE for miles.
In wwiionline you can also glide a fair way but as you slow down your plane REALLY starts to sink, you really fell like the aircraft has mass and weight.
It fells like you almost have to be at a stand still in AH to stall or sink.
Also i like the way in wwiionline you can scrape the ground with wing tip or slighy bump another aircraft or clip a tree and not instantly EXPLODE, you rock and sway and somtimes loose control but somtimes are able to regain control with maybe minor damage.
On the ground it takes a while for your aircraft to get off the ground and you really feel like your trying to get a ton of aircraft airbourne.
Ah your aircrat seems to be rather light.
Haveing said all that WWIIonline dogfighting dose not compair to that of Aces high for shear enjoyment, why? i dont know it just is that way.
AH is stilll the best WWII dogfighting sim there is, but WWIIonline seem to have things more realistic.
But then what do i know right ?
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Let me propose a different view here. When I took multiengine training in the beautiful Pennsylvania Dutch Country, I was told that in case of an engine failure over farm country you're much better off landing with the gear up than taking a chance on digging one in, flipping and roasting yourself and the corn around you.
WW2OL has so many terrain and scenery features that it's quite likely that the programmers don't really expect anyone to be landing wheels down in a cow pasture. Their programming chores are I suspect much more demanding than in other sims so I suspect that worrying about anyone driving an airplane through trees just hasn't moved on their priority list just yet. Personally, I love their flight model (109E=my ride) and what's best is that it really looks and feels much more realistic to me than any other sim I've tried. Not as pretty and detailed as AH or WB but it does make me "feel" like I'm in the real thing.
Beeg
P.S. 1.7 came out last week. Maybe that's fixed now.
Originally posted by Revvin
I think the ground clipping ability in WW2OL stems from an inadequacy not by design. In version 1.66 I took a Blenheim up for a spin. I had to ditch for some reason (memory fails) so as I came down I lowered my gear and proceeded at a speed where normally I'd expect my gear to break to cross a field. I pssed through a line of trees without breaking a thing came to a stop then realised I was not as damaged as I thought...hmm I thought lets give this a try. I throttled up and spun the thing round and taxi's through another set of trees then across a bumpy field and took off undamaged and continued my flight home.
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WW2OL was'nt all bad, although the planes felt a little easy to fly in regards to be able to turn and turn and turn without bleeding much energy at all one thing I did enjoy was the ability to navigate by a printed map and looking out of the cockpit at landmarks such as roads, bridges and forest shapes. AAR reports for my squad there always seemed a little more realistic than WB or AH being able to say "we took off at Maubeuge and headed to Flavion, as we flew down the river we headed West to Wiltz...." etc etc
It was to feel you were part of an ongoing war..well at least in theory. Ground units never really called for support and air units were mainly just furballing. IMO the much vaunted 'strat' was nothing more than capture the flag with a twist. I'll still be keeping an eye on what's happening over there but for now my account is cancelled after seeing v1.70 still did'nt quite 'do it' for me.
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Originally posted by funkedup
I think in TOD there is still a rule that you can respawn multiple times in the first 5 or 10 minutes
The reason for the 10-minute 'grace period' (with KillShooter ON) at the beginning of the TODs is to allow for takeoff accidents - like a squad being wiped out by friendly fire, as happened during one Friday TOD I believe. Large numbers of aircraft causing low frame-rates for some is another factor which sometimes causes them to crash into buildings.... and if a TOD involves CV take-offs, there are invariably a few who need a couple of trys to get into the air. :) Otherwise, yes.... TODs are one-life events. :cool:
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If you want a nice offline simulation IL2 is the best thing going. I did not care for it online.
I fly AH and I like it. Some fly WB and they like it. Between these two it is just a matter of personal likes.
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It's funny that someone mentioned losing sight of the enemy during a dogfight and managing to escape against many foes - this sort of thing evidently happened quite often in RL. I don't know how many accounts I've read where the writer described the sky as being full of planes and then everyone just disappearing. Well, obviously, they didn't just disappear - he just lost sight of them. It is frustrating during a dogfight in WWIIOL when this happens but, hey, I'm one of the guys who keeps yelling for more realism so I don't really have a leg to stand on.
I bought WWIIOL when it first came out and initially, I found it quite disappointing, mainly because of the almost unplayable frame rates I was getting in some situations. However, it is incredible RE: the rate at which improvements have been being made in the game. And CRS has taken the rather brave step of introducing attrition in the game at the risk of provoking the ire of their clientele. Frankly, I don't mind attrition - I get just as much joy out of playing as a simple rifleman (something which I just discovered recently) as I get flying around.
Anyway, does anyone know when the ETA for the next AH update with the mission-based arena is going to be? I was seriously pondering re-opening my AH account (Oh, the madness - accounts in WBIII, WWIIOL AND AH?!?! - where will I found the time to play all these sims?!?!) when I heard about it.
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Originally posted by JG80 Fokker
Oh I guess I forgot some of the other old dynamix classics that should get an honorable mention for their day in the sun many moons ago.
Aces over Europe, and Aces of the Pacific. Both great sims for their time :) They rocked once upon a time..what 10 years ago ? hehe
Two words....Fighter Duel. Amiga500 1988
-=Ledg=-
AW4883
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Originally posted by Ledg
Two words....Fighter Duel. Amiga500 1988
Actually the first two player air combat I played was called Mig Alley Ace for the C64. It had a split screen top and bottom.
Fighter Duel for the Amiga was great. Hog vs Zeke and you could fly H2H using a modem. It had two huge polygons, a giant pyramid and a giant arch (like the Arc de Triomphe) you could fly around probably 2000 feet high in a deep blue sea. The flight model was pretty good (very smooth), someone described it like ice skating, with laser-like gunnery and a nice explosion. Aircraft spawned in the air. No cockpit art.
Then AW showed up on GEnie. Very crude, from a distance a little cursor-like arrow to show you which way the aircraft was pointed. Little grey airplane shapes to shoot down over green polygon pyramids , but some VERY good pilots. I do believe there was a guy named Pyro who flew a mean 38. ;) Also, a guy named Hitech who wrote a valuable program called VFilm, a film editor where the wire-frame representations of the airplane had a long trailing flight path so you could view (in my case) exactly where you lost your e and met your demise.
The rest is, as they say, history.
-=Ledg=-
4883 - Stimpy callsign
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Originally posted by Ledg
Two words....Fighter Duel. Amiga500 1988
-=Ledg=-
AW4883
My first ww2 sim...amiga 500 then the awsome 3000....those were the days:)
Don't remember you from AWDOS...I was Ice B-land 13th TAS.
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Well...AH is the best flight sim I've played as of yet. IL2 didn't get me...
Figher Ace was where I started FS and when I came to AH I was very bad at it. Now I just Suck as opposed to being very bad.
#2 WW2 Sim for me would be MOHAA. It's WW2 Based and alot of fun for shoot em up games.
#3 Would be WW2 Online. I bought it and a new system when it first came out and wanted to KILL the rats for not having what they said it would be. But after a bit I really enjoyed flying in there. I found that you could fight a fight for a long time and get away if you got in trouble. I didn't enjoy the tanks and troops as thats not really my thing in that game. Flyiing is what I wanted out of it.
Tried WB's...wasnt in to it. AH had already spoiled me.
Now for some other MMOG's you may want to try NASCAR 2002 season or wait for NASCAR 2003 Season (february release). It is flat the most bang for you buck no matter whether its practice or race. It's just flat a great sim. I race in a league and have tons of fun. PAPYRUS races are sometimes wreck fests but can be very rewarding. I have high stats in that game and just love to play it. Only suggestion is GET A WHEEL for sure.
Bout all the info I have for you.....Best of Luck
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I still get a kick out of Rowans Battle of Britain. For a boxed sim to have that many aircraft on the monitor at onetime is spectacular. Graphics are nice.....FM isn't bad but is similar to mushbirds, and the views could be upgraded. BoB is a fav of mine.
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Originally posted by Rude
Don't remember you from AWDOS...I was Ice B-land 13th TAS.
I was (and still am) a very sporadic player. In AWDOS I never had a name only a number (4883) and played mostly as a frog. I remember what a big deal it was when the plane polygons began coming apart when blown up. :)
Cheers.