Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Obear on July 21, 2000, 06:25:00 AM
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Ok, im putting myself in the firing line here, judging by the large AH community that's out there, but i have a gripe about this game and i need to give it a darn good airing cos its beginning to smell a bit.
Its a long story so kick back, crack open a cold one and i will tell you a story.
Few years back the first online game i played was Warbirds and almost immediately i was hooked. Here was a game that supplied me with allot of my interests and hobbies, i love to fly and take to the air as often as i can and my inherited love and interest of WW2 aircraft from my father who was in the RAF inevitably drew me to this game and i fell madly and head over heals in love with it (we are now getting married in the Autum and are planning a few kids later)
This was so great, a large online community and the enjoyment of flying with like minded pals from all over the globe...DARN COOL
a few years later and i stumbled across AH. I downloaded the game and started it up, logged on for the free 2 week trial and begain flying.
WOW !!!! WOW !!!! WOW !!!!
I thought WB's did a pretty good job with the aircraft modelling and landscaping but this game was just so much better.
The aircraft were far more detailed
The landscape was to die for on an on line sim
The cannon fire was no longer red and yellow lines but real looking cannons with translucent tracer !!!!!
The game play had even more depth and the bases and fields look far better and more detailed.
Tanks and AA trucks Cool!!!!!
Little touches like the landing gear actually slowly retracting instead of just disappearing.
Sounds, just so much better, like the real thing, engines splutter and crank into life instead of the normal brrrrrrrrrrrr!!
VR cockpits, etc., with pan and snap options!!
My god, i thought i was in heaven, good bye Warbirds and farewell, you are good but never this good.
Then i played the game.
At first i thought it was me and that a new flight engine would take a bit of time to get used to, but no.
Oh sure i got the hang of it ok, and im no amateur when it comes to flying. I fly for real and i know all about torque, etc.
I know how and when to used rudder, flaps and just about everything else, but the game just seemed so flawed.
With all the great touches it offered over and above WB's it is let down by the shear unplayability of the game.
OK ill stop now, i know there are probably a few hundred of you out there playing this game every day screeming at me and think its the best thing since sliced bread, but it would be so much better if it didn't have such a steep learning curve.
It basically boils down to the dogfighting. It is not as enjoyable nor as fast and furious as WB's. You fly for what seems ages, you see a con and your up high, turn into his 6 and swoop down for the kill. Ok now he is better than you and manages to manoeuvre with minimal damage out of your line of sight. So you power away and swing in for another kill, again you over shoot, that's ok but the second time you come to turn the stall horn sounds like a dyeing whale and if you don't turn with the minimal of stick movement your sent spinning to the ground. BOOM
Now like i say, i know all about the aerodynamics of aircraft and i am sure that HI TECH and the gang know there beans when it comes to a realistic flight sim.
But for myself, and i know many others, this is just no fun at all. It may well be the most realistic flight engine around, but that's just it, this is not real, its a game, and we have no input on our senses other than sight as to what our aircraft is doing.
There's no G force and although the sounds are far superior to WB's the engine pitch hardly changes weather your barley above stall speed or close to ripping the wings from your plane. Realistic maybe, but that's no good when your 1000 feet and have no bearings weather your going slow or fast. Yes, i know there is a speed indicator in the cockpit but who wants to spend all the time checking his dials when your in a dogfight. No sensory input means you need to make slight inaccurate changes in a game like this for everyone to enjoy.
I know i will get a barrel load of 'Sod of back to WB's if you don't like it' and 'call yourself a pilot? i have no problems'
But that's just it, id rather go with AH as it is a brilliant step further than WB's
I have tried, i wanted so badly to love this game like i do WB's i wanted to pay the Monthly fee and bask in this games glory. But i cant, because to me (and i know allot of other who have tried this game) the gameplay take away the enjoyment of getting in there and having fun.
If the Flight engine was a little more friendly so ALL could adapt to it, i think the WB's community would drop and AH would have to set up another server to cater for the extra players.
I do not say this game is crap, nor bad. It is an excellent achievement that no doubt took many hours of dedicated programing. I just wish it was as easy to love as WB's
Isn't there a chance for a relaxed arena, with a little less 'IN YOUR FACE' learning curve? somewhere were you could fly for few mins, have a blast, without checking your dials every min? ohh well i know ill get a pasting for this but until AH becomes more USER FRIENDLY i cannot justify the monthly outgoing for a game that is for the best part infuriating to play, and i know of many many others who like me were taken back by the games outlook and disapointed at the actual flight charateristics.
Ok i have said my 2 bucks worth.
<Braces himself for an onslaught of outrage by AH community>
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I think Pyro said a while back that there would be some further allowances for game play. I then promptly asked or a "Extreme Arena" where there wasn't any artificial assistance. Only like two people responded they they wanted a more challenging arena with a higher rate of difficulty, so I don't see you getting slammed too badly. I guess more people do want (excuse the expression) dumbing down of the game. I personally prefer a challenge so a more difficult FM is my cup of tea.
All that talk was brought about by iEN disabling easymode in the main.
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(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/dtahcard.gif)
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!
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funny thing is that i always found the WB FM harder to fly than the AHs.. well didn't fly WB a lot because i was repeled by the impossible 6 view of my HOG -> i didn't find the fights faster and furioser than in AH either cause i tended to fly to the general direction of where the fight was supposed to be and usually gt jumped and killed by some high con i never ever saw.
Well my Point is:
Keep trying ! AH has a lot to offer as soon as you got over the first "ridge" in the learning curve..
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Obear,
I understand you. After 4 years of WB I switched to AH and my first three beta TOD have been a nitemare.
I took a look to your stats and I saw that you only flew in TOD#4 (some 83 sorties in fighters). It is not enuff. AH has a steeper learning curve than WB. AH arena requires a more historical way of fighting as well. Sometimes is boring to spend 10-15 minutes only to get to operational altitude from a rear base, but I prefer it.
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Perhaps what you are looking for is Fighter Ace! Go check it out, it got very nice eye candy effects and an dumbed down FE!!
If anything i want the game to be even harder then it is now....
Best move WBs done in an couple years was to remove the Easy mode in the main arena methinks.
Oh almost forgot! have you been to the training arena yet? obviously you are doing something wrong....
Regards.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Hiya Obear. First of all, you managed to express your diappointment in a mature and honest way. I salute you for that.
I, too, came from the ranks of Warbirds. And I, too, had a somewhat lengthy learning curve with the AH flight model. But after giving it about a month, I felt completely at home with it. In fact, I now find Warbirds' flight modeling to be a bit arcadish compared to AH.
Make no mistake, Aces High, with it's late war plane set, is not a turn-N-burn paradise. It's all about energy fighting. You must manage your energy very carefully if you want to win a fight. I've had some fantastic one-on-one fights in AH, but they were more like chess matches, instead of a "crank-n-bank" fight.
To be sure, this style of fighting is not everyone's cup of tea. But for me, the extra features that AH had over WB(zoom key, customizable views, drop tanks, ground vehicles) makes it worth the effort to learn a new way to fight.
You're not alone. We've seen some WB people come over here, all excited about AH, only to leave after a short time. On the other hand, a large number of WB people have come over to AH and have stayed for good.
I hope you decide to stay. Good luck! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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P/O banana
XO 308(Polish) Sqn "City of Cracow" RAF
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4 postings in 1 hour that's good thanks.
Firstly in reply to maniacs suggestion of flying in Fighter Ace, i have played that game off line and its not my cup of tea.
Any game that you can dogfight in a lancaster bomber is poor show.
That game the flight engine is far inferior for my liking and takes away the enjoyment of the game (kinda picky arnt i, there's no pleasing some people)
I always played WB's with easy flight turned off and i found the relaxed play a little to simplistic.
I am no quake head who wants to FRAG everybody insight and use no method or strategy to my game.
I know all about gaining alt and not spending to much of your power constantly turning into your enemy. My point was that AH seems to take the realistics of flight to the extream and as i think banana (funny name for someone who writes such mature and educated responces lol) writes, the game play is more kindred to a chess game.
I know everyone has a different perspective on how they wish to play there game, and it is hard, maybe impossible to cater for everyone's needs. But i really do think that if the game (or an arena of the game) was to be toned down a little to allow the less 'patient' or 'quick to learn' players a chance to play the game, enjoy there time here and submit for the monthly charge, and then maybe after a while of actually enjoying there learning curve online can then make the jump to the normal arena.
if this was to take effect it would defiantly get my vote.
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I have figured this much out:
AcesHigh plays you, not the other way around.
You have to let yourself go, become one with the force.
I often think about going back and trying WBs out but I always end up taking the more difficult path. Perhaps its because I still havent mastered AH. The challenge keeps me interested.
Yeager
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/yeager.gif)
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 07-21-2000).]
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A good thoughtfull post. I have seen half my old squad m8s try and move away from AH because of the very reasons you say. I was sorry to see them move on but could respect their decision. That said, the only thing that could possibly upset me with your post is if HTC went and created an "easymode" to give people some Lite version of the flight model. Give it another try, maybe after stepping away from it, you will find it more approachable.
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Hi Obear,
I teetered on the fence between WB and AH for months, probably because I was trying to fly both sims at the same time.
If you are doing that, it really impedes the acquisition of the seat-of-the-pants reprograming that has to take place. Its almost like a paradigm shift.
It was a leap of faith to jump in with both feet, but I did it even though I liked the WB flight model better at the time. I came over mostly because of the excellent value and service.
Now, I love the AH flight model. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
$.02
(http://www.ropescourse.org/cgunthr.jpg)
332nd Flying Mongrels
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Obear,
Im all for an easy mode arena, as long as they dont mix easy mode and real mode into the same arena as they did in WBs..
And i also want to repeat that the AH plane set is more towards the BnZ type of fighting..
What ACīs do you fly?
Also you can always go back to WBs if you cant get used to the FMs here, after all eyecandy doesnt mean squat, and WBs aint an bad sim at all.....
Regards.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
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Obear,
Like you I came here from Warbirds, (4 years there give or take a month).
I've been here since midbeta and I'm still struggling some days. Yes AH has a very tight flight model, stalls still seem to happen too soon. Energy conservation is drasticly different here than anything else I've seen.
However, you'll find me in here every day working on it. Gone are the easy days of Turn & burn, position, alt & E management are crucial. Flying with a wingman certainly helps.
Also, IMO the average skill level in AH is much higher than anything I've seen before.
Heres hopeing you'll rise to the challenge.
Like anything else, the harder you work for success the sweeter it is when you finally attain it.
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Salute, to all thats been said here! I remember the first time I logged AH, I was ready to kill everything in sight until I made my first turn, and of course I promptly stalled and crashed. Now, I thought I would never get used to this, but the best thing about AH for me was actually learning to cope with the FM and using it to my advantage. I would hope that HTC went down the line of making the AH fm as close to the real thing as is possible. I'm far to young to remember WW2 so what I'm really after is to find out what it was like for real WW2 pilots. For that reason I would be against a relaxed arena. I think warbirds is great if thats what you want. But I really think that the people who have stuck with AH, do so because, they enjoy the learning curve, and take great satisfaction when they start to see results. One major gripe though. Most newbies learn to fly in TA complete with F3 view, unlimited fuel etc, the when I comes to MA time, they're lost, why don't HTC get rid of that damn F3 view altogether, and make the TA the same as the MA?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) All,
Grem.
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You're right, E management is the name of the game in AH. Here are some tips:
Be sure to scale your joystick to allow for fine control of the plane.
Try to keep your plane trimmed. This will keep the joystick near the center and allow for fine control.
Think about lag pursuit. If you can maintain an E advantage, the angles will come later.
Keep the ball centered. AH planes burn a LOT of E in slip. Glancing at the slip indicator during a fight will help you develop a feel for the rudders.
Resist the temptation to yank and bank. Keep it smooth. Lag. Roll. Find maneuvers that retain E.
Develop an awareness of your E relative to the other guy. When you sense that you are about to lose the advantage, find the moment to abandon the fight.
Use vertical maneuvers. Try to avoid flat turns and nose down maneuvers.
Use wind noise to give you a sense of your airspeed. Go to Setup/Sound and turn the wind sound all the way up. If it's not loud enough, use the Windows utility to increase the wind.wav volume. If it's still not loud, turn all the other sounds down a bit.
When you disengage from a fight, use zero-G dive to maximize E.
Set up some time in the TA with a trainer. Repeating the same plane/E/position setups can help you tune your game.
popeye
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 07-21-2000).]
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Not a flame nor sarcasm - but there's a bit of irony in my eyes to see a post that could so easily have been written by a FA/AW 'pilot' about trying to fly WB's. Just just the sim names around.
I myself find that some nights here I'm on golden wings. And others, like last night, I'm cannon fodder for anyone who sneezes.
-Westy
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Well I must coincide with banana. After having to deal with some AGW stupid whiners here,your post is the clear proof that there is a lot of intelligent people in both communities. S! to you on the wonderful way you posted it!
now...lets see...
Originally posted by Obear:
It basically boils down to the dogfighting. It is not as enjoyable nor as fast and furious as WB's. You fly for what seems ages, you see a con and your up high, turn into his 6 and swoop down for the kill. Ok now he is better than you and manages to manoeuvre with minimal damage out of your line of sight. So you power away and swing in for another kill, again you over shoot, that's ok but the second time you come to turn the stall horn sounds like a dyeing whale and if you don't turn with the minimal of stick movement your sent spinning to the ground. BOOM
Umm well if you seek FAST action, like low level furballs and dogfights...well they dont happen too much in AH's Main Arena. But when they happen its a BLAST (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Anyway it is a matter of realism. in WWII pilots used to climb with their planes up to their combat ceiling BEFORE entering the combat area. So here uses to happen the same thing.
Your post makes clear that you are mainly a TnB pilot. Well then I must admit you will have serious trouble here until you learn the FM very well...why? because TnB is a E-wasting way to fight, while people here knows to keep their Energy up all day long (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) so if you start Turning and Burning everyone in your, say, N1K2, you wont stay very long as an alive pilot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
What to do?...learn to fight with E-conservative moves instead pure TnB. That will make your life much longer, and funnier, I guarantee it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now like i say, i know all about the aerodynamics of aircraft and i am sure that HI TECH and the gang know there beans when it comes to a realistic flight sim.
[/b]
you are VERY right (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) HT is a damned fine pilot in AH ...and not too long ago he flew a REAL p51D. So hes knowledge in REAL warbirds handling and behaviour is far better than your's or mine's...
And Pyro knows a lot about planes, too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (now if he only came with 190D9.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
But for myself, and i know many others, this is just no fun at all. It may well be the most realistic flight engine around, but that's just it, this is not real, its a game, and we have no input on our senses other than sight as to what our aircraft is doing.
There's no G force and although the sounds are far superior to WB's the engine pitch hardly changes weather your barley above stall speed or close to ripping the wings from your plane. Realistic maybe, but that's no good when your 1000 feet and have no bearings weather your going slow or fast. Yes, i know there is a speed indicator in the cockpit but who wants to spend all the time checking his dials when your in a dogfight. No sensory input means you need to make slight inaccurate changes in a game like this for everyone to enjoy.
Humm...define "fun". For me "fun" is to fly in the most realistic simulator on the market. you say that you NEED to make SLIGHT inaccurate changes in a game for enjoy? humm..did WWII pilots have range icons? and not-disturbed ballistics? did they whine about it was too much work to look to their dials when dogfighting?...
This is intended to be a REALISTIC WWII simulator...if you search those things ,give a chance to WB, EAW, or Jane's WWII.
you want my opinion?...stay here. It is tougher than anything out there in the market, agreed...but once you get the feeling of the FM it is just great. First of all get a trainer to help you (I'm not trainer but I'd love to give you some tips in TA if you want...email Ebringas@airtel.net). Then join a squad who will care about you, will make your experience funnier and will teach you a lot of things. and last, but VERY important, IMO, get a plane and master it.
Each plane is different,each one has its own strong points and weak points. By staying in the same one for 2 months you'll learn to "FEEL" when it is going to stall, how much can you zoom away before having to level, how to deal with the other planes...to put it in short words, it will become an EXTENSION of your mind, you'll feel it as an elongation of your own body.
I tell you to do that because all those things happened to me, when I first came here 6 months ago I wasnt able even to take off (no autotake off then). I had no damned idea of what was E, and "trim" was an unknown word for me. First of all some people helped me when they saw I was so hopelessy dweeb, then I joined JG2 (the luckiest thing ever happened since I came here), and then I specialized in Fw190.
NOw I suck, but at least I suck way less than what I did. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I felt tempted to quit in my first days here, but I felt too that this thing was a REAL good one...and stayed. Now I am proud on doing it (although I have been through some hard times in the meantime (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
Do the same or you'll regret it later.
Really. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<Braces himself for an onslaught of outrage by AH community>
as you see, your post was a REALLY good one ,and so we put here our thoughts and try to help you. No outrage here, as you did nothing to start it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
S! again. And hold on and keep trying!!!!
Originally posted by Westy:
I myself find that some nights here I'm on golden wings. And others, like last night, I'm cannon fodder for anyone who sneezes.
-Westy
LOL Westy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) That poor sheep you trapped under your crashing P47's belly yesterday is calling for justice!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Of course we all know you died in the crash (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Was a real fun run (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) S! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Not a direct response to the original post, but my vote and preference go to not cutting the difficulty one iota.
WWII planes were not light and they were not something you could just throw around the sky. Watch the WWII iron at any airshow and if they are doing aerobatics they will be big and smooth. You just can't make comparisons between a 51 or a Jug and a Cessna.
These planes were not easy to fly. In the "sims" people expect to be able to hop in and go fly (let alone fight) with little or no actual stick time. Do that in a real warbird and you are dead. Hell, do it in a Cessna and odds are you die. If you are lucky you'll get airborne... but land? I would bet against it.
The planes were hard to fly and hard to master but once you climb that curve you are one to be feared.
I say keep the difficulty where it is. So what if it takes a few attempts to finally take off and so what if the newbies don't win a dogfight because they can twitch faster but don't really appreciate the FM.
Dumb the sim down and it will be another Quake.
Not a flame at all. I just would like to see one online flight sim keep the realism level up and for God's sake, please, please no easy mode in the MA.
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Obear, I hunderstand ur feeling, but as far as I'm concerned, my fun comes from this sim being realistic and hard to master. I don't realy like 'faster' sims.
Here keeping your energy and couple of tricks are the key, having to control ur impulses during the whole dogfight is my challenge and source of delectation.
I played most online and offline sims, my way of blowing off smoke is sweating for 5-10 min to achieve a kill rather than storming all other and killing like a wolf in a sheep barn. But it's my view and my pleasure, i respect yours.
If you feel that AH is not your cup of tea, then I encourage you to go have fun with others sims and leave this one alone. Janes WW2 Online, I don't know if the arena is still open but u may like it, pretty graphics, a 'fake advanced' FM and it's pure dogfighting, it never stops and it's pretty fast.
Hope that helps, have a great day!
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Obear
I agree with you that this is the most difficult game I ever played, the learning curve is very high, and you have the advantage that you have experince from previous simulators, now just imagine how I feel that I never flied nothing, I have learned from zero, plane parts, physics, etc , in my 2 months now in Aces high .
but in my point of view I think this is one of the games I allways was looking for (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
very hard: you really need to work and fly a lot.
have to many variables: yeah , I see I never kill or killed in the same way.
Imho this is the simulator for people who likes challenges and risk because if you start to play and get shoted every 1 minute you want to leave, but them I think ,ok if I was killed this way I will have to learn how can I beat this, and there you go ,the time pass and you see your self hocked with this game,
to me the most beatyfull of this game are 2 things: the community and the dificulty of the game, I just cant imagine what will happens to mee when the historical arenas come to life (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Obear:
You sort of contradict yourself:
"Oh sure i got the hang of it ok, and im no amateur when it comes to flying. I fly for real and i know all about torque, etc."
"..So you power away and swing in for another kill, again you over shoot, that's ok but the second time you come to turn the stall horn sounds like a dyeing whale and if you don't turn with the minimal of stick movement your sent spinning to the ground. BOOM"
This second line makes it sound that you haven't got the hang of it. You blow an E advantage, then spin in. We all auger from time to time, but this sounds like you are doing something wrong.
Your post is very reasonable, but you offer no scientific support for your main complaint about the different E retention characteristics between WB and AH. I don't know which is more realistic either, but to me AH strikes me as more realistic, so I prefer it to WB. You don't ask for a more realistic FM, just a more 'fast and furious' one. That's fine too, but many of us came here specifically because the WB FM was getting stale. The Turn-4-Ever(tm) e-retention lead to some ridiculous furballs. I started playing AH as soon as the beta was released, and it took quite some time to get comfortable. Every time I went back to play WB, the WB FM struck more and more game-like.
If anything, I think the AH FM is still a bit dumbed down as you have to be very ham-fisted to lose control of your plane for more than a couple seconds.
Others have made similar posts as yours, they basically want to play AH, but with the WB FM. I hope HTC sticks to their guns and lets WBers play WB and AHers play AH.
ra
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The biggest problem with the game is the "sensitivity" issue. You really MUST have an awesome joystick to fly worth a damn in this arena. With WB a good stick would help out but it wouldn't make a diff. between a good or bad pilot. However, in AH if your stick isn't "just right" then you'll fly like crap. I have an ok stick and I've messed extensively with the "rubber bands" but I still find the controls to be "uncontrollable" at times. Pull a little too hard even when going 400Mph and ***STALL*** horn.
One of my biggest problems with the game is the "trim". I hate having to dive onto an enemy, keep one hand on the keyboard and another on my joystick. I know very well that mr. fanatic with 15 buttons on his joystick can trim, control, and drink beer with it. Personally I find it a huge hassle that I think a lot of others don't like.
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"Like anything else, the harder you work for success the sweeter it is when you finally attain it." - Ghosth
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 07-21-2000).]
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LOL..
It ain't amatuer hour airplanes... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sure it's tuff.. but if playing a guitar wuz easy ther'ed be a half a million jimmi hendrix's.
Stick it out.. the satisfaction gleened from flying a reality based FM will pay back in dividends... the first time you shoot me down.. . (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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IMHO nothing easy is fun for very long. That said, I have no problems at all with having a separate relaxed arena were newcomers aren't at such a disadvantage.
Can one not simulate an "easy mode" simply by setting the joystick sensitivity so that the various control surfaces move only a portion of their full range even when the stick is pulled 100% a given direction?
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Originally posted by HaHa:
The biggest problem with the game is the "sensitivity" issue. You really MUST have an awesome joystick to fly worth a damn in this arena.
LOL Haha (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I see that being able to afford a good set of stick&throttle make people a bit lazy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Until last month I was flying with a 2 button+throttle Virtual Pilot yoke. And one of the buttons didnt work properly. Felt quite good except for snapshots, where the failing button and lack of hands made impossible to keep track of the con and fire at the same time.
Now I fly with a F16 combat Stick (THANKS SAW!!!!!) wich is a very nice stick but for sure is not "an awesome joystick to fly worth a damn in this arena."
I suck of course, but fer sure not because my stick.
IMHO Hangtime will excell with my ex-yoke, as Hristo ,as Torque ,as Wardog...as any good pilot here.
To be a good pilot one doesnt need anything else than good SA and ACM knowledge...and of course a lot of experience.
Sticks mean a little % here.
IMHO, of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Just a suggestion. You can find everything you mentioned. In a H2H free for all arena. Most happen at f1. So you dont have the long boreing flights over and over. Since everyone is right there, TnB planes and tactics are favored. If you get out of the mains constant banger or bangee syndrom. You might find you are not as bad as you think.
There is no scoreing anyway. So you dont have to worry about how you do. Spend a week are so there, and your confadence will be a lot higher going back to the main.
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<S> Obear!
Good thoughtful post. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I to have struggled with the flight model. I can't really add to what any have said, but just encourage you to stick it out. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
We moved our squad over from Warbirds. I can say by far those that continued to fly "both" sim stuck with Warbirds. Those that gave Aces High a chance, and flew only that sim remained here. The exception to that were those that could not do the 3D graphics.
Don't sit on the fence.
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daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Snapshots (http://www.ropescourse.org/snapshot.htm)
CM Schedule (http://www.ropescourse.org/cmtimes.htm)
(http://www.ropescourse.org/cdaddog.jpg)
Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills.
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Obear, I think what you want is Aces High graphical representation but using Warbirds flight model. So you'd have Aces Birds(hehe)! :-)
Seriously though, give Aces High an honest attempt rather than thinking it would be better if it was relaxed more. You fly WarBirds because it boasts the "most realistic flight model", don't you? Then after that comes action then after that graphics then after that damage model(or some order but those are the main points I'm sure). I'm not trying to offend you, or anyone, just offering my opinion being an ex-WBer. Of course, it's been since 1.11r3(greatest version IMO!) since I've flown online. I've tried it out a lot offline and I don't think control surface drag is modelled? It is here, but it may well be overdone, I can't tell. And to be honest, the biggest reason fights/furballs aren't as common(but they are EXTREMELY INTENSE!) is because it's flat rate here as opposed to p2p over in WB. People feel they can spend more time flying around enjoying the scenery(and forget to watch their 6 like I do when I'm climbing out) and look for a fight they can easily win rather than dive into a bunch of cons. There are plenty of fights that have a lot of TnBing in it, and lots of BnZing in it(myself, I like to BnZ and TnB the same, so you can often find me doing stupid things in furballs :-). It took me 4 tours to figure out a single defensive counter to an enemy diving on me from a superior position. I've been flying since beta tour 3 and I am absolutely horrible at Aces High(my ego is too big for my stick abilities!). Like most other people who posted in this thread, however, I find the fun in the challenge and constantly learning.
But, if you are looking for massive pure furballing, I'm sorry, but that's not a common event in here. You really should stay with WB if that's what you're after and if you are after a flight model that allows super e-retention(rather it's right or wrong). I'm not pro-AH or anti-WB, I think they are two different games(many will disagree but from my experiences they are very different).
Anyway, if you would sincerely like to learn a few defensive counters I can at the very least assist you by droning for you in the TA or by "attacking" you cold-guns in the TA and you can try out things. See what works and what doesn't.
email: weissdr1@yahoo.com
I'd recommend RAM though, he's a much better stick than I am(and he offered you assistance too I believe?).
Good luck Obear,
-SW
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Post from a newbie...
I have flown AW2 n 3 and WB offline
I own EAW and Janes WW2 Fighters.
(always flown in most dificult mode)
That said:
I die all the time in AH.
Some days I can do well but most times I die.
But I am getting better.
Once when I was "Training" with Popeye, he asked my why I was flying the 109F.
Well now I like it and the zeke.
It's not the best planes to fly in a BnZ arena, but my SA sucks, and in these planes you need great SA.
I fly them because they are hard vs the G10's and p51s of the game.
They have great strengths and huge weaknesses.
When I duel..I love to have the enemy start on my six. It happened so often in the MA, that I want to get good at surviving that situation.
blah blah blah...sorry...
I guess my point is this:
TnB vs BnZ
Yeah it's very hard, but that's what attracts me to it. If I kill a high uberspit with a zeke I feel I have really done something. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
It makes up for all the...huh ? wha ? oops..booom. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But i can see the need for a SEPARATE easier arena (not easy..but easier).
Maybe even a TnB arena with the appropriate planes. (same hard FM tho)
It would be a smart way to bring more people into AH, which is good for us (more future MA pilots) and for HTC (more pocket cash) and for us (more development cash).
I flew my 2 weeks and in the beta.
and now only fly H2H.
When I find a company who needs an Oracle DBA
here, with my first paycheck you'll see me on fire in the MA. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Obear...i think you should stay.
It'll get better.
S!
Regards, Snoopi
P.S
If you want to do better right away, just look for me and shoot me down, or at least wave as as i zoom by in my burning plane.
Maybe one day, I'm gonna be shooting Hangtime and Mitsu down ! Maybe.... just maybe..sigh...
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Ok guys, what a nice and jolly bunch of chaps you are, i expected at least one idiot with his fingers on the ! key, but no, all nicely presented and thoughtful posts (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Thanks.
Ok what i am sensing here is 2 things.....
1.. This game has attracted the more Hard core flight simmer, the ones who prefer to take off, check there air speed, flaps, rate of climb, etc., gain there alt, pick out there targets and then enter a quick thinking game of mid air chess. (No insult here btw)
They enjoy the game to the full and because it caters to there tastes and way of playing online, and because of this they have the game mastered.
2.. The same kind of person as above but thos who seem (by the postings here) to still be struggling with the game, but want to carry on regardless of the amount of effort it requires.
I think i understand that this game has been developed for the more serious simmer in mind.
This appears to be leaning more to the 'slower paced' end of the market, requiring more effort on the forward planing of each flight than the get in there, turn and burn end of the scale.
Ok i understand, i think i was a little out step with the kind of simulation this is supposed to be, like i have said i do fly for real but i prefer my on line fights to be just a little more fictional, enough to add a bit of spice and to gee the game up, but not too much as to make the sim retarded and GAME like, guess that's why WB's suites me so well, specially now they got rid of that stupid easy flight, now that was a bit over the top. (Never been in any aircraft were you can take a vertical stall to the limit and for the aircraft to nicely lower the nose all gentle and graceful lol)
That's why i was thinking of the possibility of a ...not easy arena as such but a toned down version, didn't want the MA to be turned down, after all that would be treading on allot of peoples toes, they like MA the way it is and that's just fine and dandy with me.
Well hell, ill continue to fly with my free 2 weeks and see were i get, if not ill shuffle my butt back to WB's lol
And if one day i have some spare monthly cash i may just run both AH and WB's and the new WWII online that's coming out (knowing my luck the flight engine will be just like AH lol)
Well, thanks all for a good post, you'll see me around for a couple of weeks and maybe more after that who knows.
P.S. Could you all help me a little while i am online with AH??? If you see me flying towards you could you please drop your air speed, fly straight and level, and keep it that way until your mysteriously taken back to the hanger in a pile of smoke!!!!
NO?? oh well worth a try.
laters all and thanks again!
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Obear it takes time..Shoot i came over to AH from AW3 easymode. Good god had to realy learn how to fly a plane this time. I wish you good luck and hope you stick with it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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VMF-212 Lancers
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Hey AKSeaWulf, could I take you up on the offer for counter manuevers? My patented Run Away Really, Really Fast technique leaves a bit to be desired. I'm at the 4 tour mark and completely lame in counter manuevers.
Kutt
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Ok..
After 10 years of online flying, AW-DOS,WB and AH. AH by far has the more realistic FM, Damage modeling ive had the pleasure of flying. Right from the start, everyone knew it would be a steep learnig curve.To my surprise, it wasnt that hard to pickup on. Very close to the FM in WB..
Ive flown WB for 5 years,so i may have had a start on AH that others didnt.
It just takes time. Thats all.Allthough i do have 1 question for you. Did you fly WB in RR Mode? As i found out may have been. So this will make AH a steep learning curve for you.
Dog out.......
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Originally posted by Obear:
the ones who prefer to take off, check there air speed, flaps, rate of climb, etc., gain there alt, pick out there targets and then enter a quick thinking game of mid air chess. (No insult here btw)
Insult?? no way! it is one of the most wonderful definitions of air combat I've ever heard...mid air chess...each plane has its own moves, and qualities... Strategic and tactic mind together, but not too close linked... Only teamwork doesnt fit that definition, but I think it is a very good one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Remember, if you want help and see me online, gimme a yell and I'll play the drone on the Training Arena (BTW AKSWulfe...thanks but in no way I'm better stick than you!! <S!> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-21-2000).]
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I also appreciate the maturity of your post Obear... thanks. I am a flight sim newbie, having only flown the original Red Baron prior to AH. I still remember the first time I tried to take off and almost got queazy because my plane ended up spinning around uncontrollably on the runway. Though I crashed spectacularly, that event was what hooked me. For me, it is the steep learning curve due to the realism that is the addictive element. You must truly learn to master each plane and its idiosyncracies to fly it well. It takes a bit of thinking, maybe some tips from others, and just plain old practice. Easy mode of any type, in my opinion, would degrade the game, as would relaxing the flight model. There are plenty of other games to play that do not use realism enough. The challenge of learning and mastering your chosen ride is the "hook" that I can't, and don't want to, get free from. Besides, if ya want easy mode, fly a Spitfire! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
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Skorpyon
~900th Bloody Jaguars~
"Feel the Sting......"
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This post is so good I just finished saving it to share with others. As for the game being compared with 'chess', well you hit the nail on the head. I started playing flight sims this time last year. I tried AW3 and was there nearly 10 months. I played on a 200mhz system with a 33.6k connection and in 2d mode. I heard about AH from a friend and tried it out while visiting the same. (Lizard3) I quit flying AW3 and am now saving my pennies for a killer system with which to learn this real flight sim. Sure, its fun to up and start shooting bad guys 3-5 mins later but that was not the way they did it back in WW2. I guess I'm over playing the 'stick in a quarter and go' games/sims. I want a challenge. I want it as real as it can be. I want to have to watch out for bad guys while checking my instruments every second I'm airborne. I don't want a 'forgiving' aircraft. Why? Because the rewards at the end my friend. The first time I make all the right moves and score a kill it will make it all worth it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ESPECIALLY if that person is ol' Lizard-breath himself, my mentor. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) The other thing about this sim I like is the community of players. I've been reading this board for some time now but only recently started posting. These folks are serious about their sim and do not hesitate to lend a hand when asked. The HTC folks also maintain a GREAT line of communication with everyone. Ok ok, I'm rambling...sorry, I guess what I'm saying is this; it is my firm belief that you will not find the elements I have mentioned here combined in a better way anywhere else. I have looked around enough to know. I only hope I can find enough time in the day to play this AND another sim which is soon to be in open beta. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I hope I will see you in the air in the very near future.
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Razor
Doverdawgs
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Originally posted by Yeager:
I have figured this much out:
AcesHigh plays you, not the other way around.
You have to let yourself go, become one with the force.
Yeager
Thats what I have told some of our memebers , plus myself too . Let it flow over you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
It's a damn hard game to be sure , but the rewards are there if you stick with it IMO
cheers spro
PS: Who came from CFS and FA , and know what u mean about the loving Lanks dogfighting and running u down (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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air_rules = Play fair ....Don't worry about points......Keep a sense of humor......Drink Jim Beam......and don't let the fediddlein cat walk on the keyboard.......!!!
(http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/1589/temp/airsprogif.gif)
[This message has been edited by airspro (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Obear,
early-war planeset would solve all problems. Hurricanes, Zeroes and early spits, I16 and few others.
Let's hope they get to it.
miko--
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FA is a friggin GAME!!!! AH is a friggin Sim!!!!!!
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Obear, A couple of things, First the learning curve takes more than a few weeks ( i can atest to this personally). You have one up on me ( you fly for real) BUT i bet the planes you have flown are NOWHERE near the torque and shear power of these WW2 planes. I drive a 92 GMC van and also a 1965 GTO, let me tell you there is quite a bit of difference in performance and handling. I punch the pedal in the goat my whole frame bends with the power and torque and thats only 400 horses, i bet the horse power difference between ww2 fighter planes and the ones you fly are thousands of horses apart. Also you are flying against people who have over a year in this sym, and even after my first year in AH i get my bellybutton handed to me on a daily basis. The learning curve is steep and long ,BUT the joy and pleasure of winning a fight are much more satisfying. I'm sure many don't like this realism ( too hard), but many do like it. I'm sure in real life it took more than a few weeks to learn to fly a ww2 fighter , let alone be any good in ACM with it. After all the f4 was called " the ensign killer" .
Try the sym for a month or two, if you still have a problem, toss it up as a learning experience.
And thanx for the mature post about your dissadifaction.
NUTTZ
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Read most of this thread, good stuff!
1 more thing, the fuggin community here is awsome, this thread proves it! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Salute Obear, your classy post shows you would fit in very nicely around here!
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Ya just have to grit your teeth for at least 2 months til ya learn the simm.
I started the first night of open beta back last september-october. It took me til this spring to feel comfortable in this simm. I could do fairly well 1 on 1 with cons but was losing my E fast in a furball.
I finally got to the point where I had to hang up warbirds to become worth a flip with this simm. It was too much of a challenge to be good at both. I'm happy with my decision and I'm learning more every day.
The one main thing to remember here is to come into the fight with gobs of E and don't flat turn while engaged with more than 1 bandit. Turn vertically. I know this sounds very simple and obvious, but actually doing this is not easy for most fellas used to WB's.
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(http://heathblair.tripod.com/assassins.gif)
<===<The ASSASSINS>===> (http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm)
assassins@aceshighcs.com
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Obear, I am with this game for many months I like it very much but can tell you that every update makes me crazy for at least few days! Even deferences between 2 versions sometime ask for a long learning, I can imagine how difficult it is for new guys... But I like the game and consider it the best game I ever played in my life up to date, and I played LOT of games. Just do not haste with your final decision, may be after some more sorties you will find AH much more enjoyable than you do now. Good luck and <S>
Fariz
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Maybe it was because I've flown the P-47 for 3 odd years in WB that I didnt have problems with the E-bleed in AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), but I find both sims remarkebly similar.
I wouldnt even be able to call either of them "more realistic" as they both have some gaping holes in their flight modelling.
It's all up to whether you like it or not.
Yes, the transition can be tricky and you have to be up for the challenge of changing from one to the other.
But..what really seperates the two (For me at least), is that WB now got it's WW2 arena, with an axis vs allied planeset.
I havent even started up AH since that arena started up and even if there was a huge gap between the flight modelling, I'd probably still be flying in the sim with the WW2 arena.
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"
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Obear - always keep in mind that you can saddle up with an experienced pilot (.join XXX) and see how they fly. Obviously you won't see the stick moves, but you will get an idea for the setup and the kill. You would be amazed at what you can pick up by doing this.
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Get a copy of the first Aces High Beta! And try to get the G-10 in the air. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The satisfaction of being able to get the beast in the air was terrific. After I proudly could get it off the ground, from a full throttle start, they mellowed it out on the next version. It was the correct decision. Easier access to the sim makes more targets, and adds enthusiasm for our beloved pastime.And money for the makers! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)I want as much realism as possible. But, an online flight sim with just twenty people is not fun. BERSERKR
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Originally posted by Obear:
This note will proberly piss alot of you off.
Better to be pissed off, than pissed on.....ummm unless your on fire.
(http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/Logos.jpg)
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CyberPilots have bigger Joysticks
BANDITS ON MY SIX!!!! (http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/rowgue/goose2.ra)
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