Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on November 22, 2002, 10:22:55 AM
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Why is this guy so vilified? Have any of you ever actually read what he wrote, or are you getting your bile from Anne Coulter?
Did you know?
He was an Olympic Gold medalist in 1924.
His book is second only to the Bible in total sales.
His book is just common sense suggestions in baby care.
He studies psychoanalysis for 6 years after getting his doctorate to improve his skills as a pediatrician.
So whats the deal?
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Must admit I've never read his book, but I scanned it a couple of times.
The criticism is probably coming from people who think he should have some experience in raising children of his own before offering advice to everyone else.
Just a guess...at least I don't believe he had any children. Or perhaps some people resent his views on discipline, which conflicted with traditional views.
Shuckins
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He had 2 sons.
Graduated 1st in his class at Columbia college of surgeons.
Discipline - I don't believe that strictness or casualness is the real issue. Good-hearted parents who aren't afraid to be firm when it is necessary can get good results with either moderate strictness or moderate casualness. On the other hand, a strictness that comes from harsh feelings or an excessive permissiveness that is timid or vacillating can lead to poor results.
The real issue is what spirit the parent puts into managing the child and what attitude is instilled in the child as a result.
Sounds pretty traditional to me.
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I never studied his works or read his books. My father was the role model I used for raising my kids. Even though I play a f#$ed up personality on TV (this BBS) , I raise my kids very conservatively, traditionally. Family First is my motto. Personal Responsibility is our primary objective.
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I was wrong, it was Anne Graham (Billy's daughter)
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said that we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem. (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said that an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
Of course this is not only a misquote of Dr. Spock, it is also not true. His son is alive and well, his grandson committed "suicide", another victim of the drug culture of the 70's.
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I have no children, probably never will... see no reason for me to actually read Dr. Spock :p
But, as a result of this thread and my own curiousity, I did a quick search on the web and was able to find out that the rumor that one of his two sons committed suicide was untrue... it was his grandson that committed suicide in 1983.
It seems that he was unfairly associated with the trend of kids being raised by parents that were too permissive. He supported parents respecting their children as human beings and treating them as such... not allowing them to run wild being obnoxious and impolite.
I am not a fan of his being a pacifist who actively protested the Vietnam war, but at least he didn't fly to Hanoi and pose for photos with enemy troops.
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Originally posted by streakeagle
I have no children, probably never will...
Gee, sounds like a Ripsnort I knew, said that all my life..up until I was 30'ish... ;)
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Yeah, but you're a sucker Ripsnort. You've let THEM suck the life force right out of you.
Now, instead of someone with drive, passion and ambition, someone who could do something extraordinary, someone who could devote your life to achieving a single personal goal, you're stuck with the routine boring task of raising kids. Smae as nearly all other families.
And don't give me that crap about "raising kids is my single task, is extraordinary blah blah". You know as well as I do that you've diddlyed up.
:D
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Don't have any of your own do you Santa, or you could not mean that in all seriousness?
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stsanta... so far... it doesn't appear that you have set the world on fire.... perhaps in 20 years or so we could hear your opinions again. It would appear tho that you believe that men with children have not accomplished anything in history?
lazs
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Santa said it a little harshly and he may have exaggerated a few points, but it's true.
If you have children, you will sacrifice your own wants and desires to meet their needs... That is unless your only wants and desires were to raise kids.
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sandman... the same could be said for sex. with kids the final result... what you get out of it... is more than worth the sacrafice. It could even be said that.... some, or even a lot, of people would get nowhere without incentaive and that children work as an incentive for them.... to think otherwise is to have a very narrow view on things. You guys should really think these things out a little... especially if you have no first hand experiance.
lazs
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I have two of my own, Laz.
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sandman... would you say that you get more out of your children than u put into them or vice versa? I also don't know how old they are but... they are also a different story after they are grown and have left/started families of their own.
lazs
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Originally posted by StSanta
Yeah, but you're a sucker Ripsnort. You've let THEM suck the life force right out of you.
Now, instead of someone with drive, passion and ambition, someone who could do something extraordinary, someone who could devote your life to achieving a single personal goal, you're stuck with the routine boring task of raising kids. Smae as nearly all other families.
And don't give me that crap about "raising kids is my single task, is extraordinary blah blah". You know as well as I do that you've diddlyed up.
:D
I wouldn't trade my experiences as a husband and father for anything this world has to offer.
My oldest daughter is the funniest, most amazing, and one of the brightest people that I have ever met. There is no greater happiness than to be a parent.
eskimo
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Originally posted by midnight Target
He was an Olympic Gold medalist in 1924.
I didn't know that liberal Mind#@$%ing was an olympic sport :confused:
-Sik
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Originally posted by lazs2
sandman... would you say that you get more out of your children than u put into them or vice versa? I also don't know how old they are but... they are also a different story after they are grown and have left/started families of their own.
lazs
I haven't stopped to do a cost-benefit analysis. :)
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thank you... that answered my question.
lazs
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hmmm... Which question?
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"sandman... would you say that you get more out of your children than u put into them or vice versa?"
that one.
lazs
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hell... I thought I dodged it. :)
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your days as a liberal are numbered.... you suffer from honesty.
lazs
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Parenting is difficult. More difficult than any non-parent can imagine.
Do I love my kids? Certainly.
Still... I rather distrust statements like, "There is no greater happiness than to be a parent."
To me... it sounds like something to keep telling yourself just to make certain you don't kill them in their sleep.
No offense intended, Eskimo. :)
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Parenting is difficult. More difficult than any non-parent can imagine.
Do I love my kids? Certainly.
Still... I rather distrust statements like, "There is no greater happiness than to be a parent."
To me... it sounds like something to keep telling yourself just to make certain you don't kill them in their sleep.
No offense intended, Eskimo. :)
No offense taken.
I guess that people with different personalities handle things differently. I have a lot of patience, and rarely get mad. I expect my kids to screw up, be noisy, disobey, etc... but I don't dwell on it when they do.
On the otherhand, I marvel at their triumphs. Yesterday Svea (age 3y 3m) got herself a sheet of paper and a marker. By herself she wrote her name as well as mommy & daddy, all very readable. It totally blew me away. I don't think I could do that untill I was almost 6. She amazes me daily. When she's not amazing me, she's making me laugh (and yes, sometimes even being a pest.)
eskimo
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You were born a tard eskimo. Thank your wife her genes are dominant on them ;) ;) ;)
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Originally posted by OIO
You were born a tard eskimo. Thank your wife her genes are dominant on them ;) ;) ;)
No arguement there!
I still can't figure out why she married me!
:)
eskimo
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I just now got time to come back to this thread only to discover that not one post since mine was about Dr. Spock :D
Ripsnort, as you have made apparent in past posts... I seem to be a marginally younger shadow of yourself... that is to say we have much in common in our past history and attitudes about things. I can only hope that the few years gap that I lag behind you turn out as well for me as they have for you.
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Parenting is very rewarding (when you've made good decisions) and the ultimate in frustration, anger, and stress (when you screw up- you will). It is probably the most difficult task I've ever set for myself, but not everything worthwhile is easy or pleasant all the time.
For those of you who don't understand the stress level of raising kids, here's what I told an engineer I was working with a few years back.
He was very stressed out over some problems with this small powerplant we where building (missing dimensions in the prints, wrong parts sent, odd mix of metric and English measurements. Nothing unusual),
Anyway, he was even more stressed because I didn't seem to get as stressed about it as he did. He kept going on about how important this project was and how I didn’t appreciate what it would mean if we didn't get this thing working.
Meanwhile I kept on laughing joking and trying to have a good day while doing what I could with the situation at hand. (I take my work very seriously, and do what I can to assure a quality product, but it does nobody any good to worry until you have holes in your gut)
So one day when he was on a rant about how I didn’t seem to care (It does say APATHY on the hard hat, get a clue) I looked at him and said, "look, it doesn't matter. Whats the worst that could happen? This thing doesn’t work and a couple dozen mega-watts don't get made and some companies lose money. That isn't cause for stress. Hell, I come here to relax. When I'm not here I raise kids. You screw that up and they climb a clock tower with a clown suit and a high-powered rifle. That’s stress, so just chill out and lets fix this damn thing."