Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Urchin on November 24, 2002, 04:52:44 PM
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Ok, I've been thinking of making a post like this for quite some time now. I really like all the LW planes, they have strengths and weaknesses that offset eachothers capabilities quite nicely.
A good example of this is the FW190. We have 3 different versions (for all intents and purposes, the F8 is still kind of useless). The 190A5 is the most manuverable of all the 190s, but it doesn't really pack all that much firepower. I always bring all 4 cannons, but the twin MG-FF not only lack in hitting power, they lack in ammunition load. If you are an excellent shot, you might be able to get 4 kills before the MG-FF run out of rounds. From that point your firepower consists of 2 rather useless MG 17 7.92mm machineguns, and 2 MG151/20 20mm cannons. Even the Dora (in my opinion) packs more firepower over a longer time, with 2 Mg151/20s and 2 Mg131 13mm machineguns.
However, the jewel of the 190s, as far as firepower goes, is the 190A8. With a whopping 780 rounds of ammunition for 4 Mg151/20 cannon, and 950 rounds for twin Mg131 machineguns, you have a ton of firepower and quite a bit of ammunition to boot. Alternatively, you can take twin Mk108 30mm cannon with 55 rounds apiece, which I use for attacking bombers but otherwise wouldn't recommend.
My reasons for staying with 4 20mm cannon instead of 2 20mm and 2 30mm are pretty simple. First, even if the Mg151/20 isn't the best cannon in the game, 4 of them will put a massive hurt on someone even with a snapshot. Second, you gain a lot more firing time with the 4 20mm cannon. The 30mm cannon have 55 rounds apiece. I'm no expert, but they way I've figured it means you are shooting 4 cannons until you have gone through 220 rounds (assuming each cannon fires one round sequentially). This means once your ammo counter reads 390, you are down to just 2 20mm cannons and 2 13mm machineguns. That is quite a reduction in firepower, in my opinion. Third, the ballistics on the Mk108 don't even come close to matching the ballistics on the Mg151/20. Unless you are shooting at an extraordinarily close range, you will be hitting with either the 2 Mg151/20s (which aren't enough to kill someone in a snapshot) or the 2 Mk108s (which, since they kill in 1 hit anyway, is a massive waste of ammunition).
With 4 20mm cannon, you will be firing with 4 cannon until your ammunition counter reads 220 rounds (plus it started 160 rounds higher, remember). The guns are all identical, so you don't have to worry about different ballistics. And since 4 Mg151/20s put out more than enough lead to kill someone in a snapshot, you really don't lose any firepower in the long run. In fact, in my opinion, the 4 Mg151/20s actually provide MORE firepower than the other loadout.
Now, as far as using the 190A8 in the Main Arena. There are 2 ways to use this bird to its strengths, in my opinion. The first way is the way that most people seem to use it, which is straight BnZ. Climb up to a comfortable altitude several thousand feet above any enemies, then dive down, and using the good high speed handling and heavy firepower, kill someone and zoom back up to safety. This is a perfectly reasonable way to fly this plane. It is boring, in my opinion anyway, and you won't be able to keep it up for very long unless you have a wingman, because the 190a8 doesn't perform all that well vertically, but it is a relatively safe way to get kills.
The way I fly the 190a8 is totally different from this. Lets start out by saying what the 190a8 can't do. It really isn't much good for "E-fighting" because it has horrible vertical performance compared to a Spitfire, N1K2, and La-7. It also isn't as good as the 190A5 or 190D9 for using the vertical plane in a fight, so if you want to E-fight in a 190 (which aren't as good as the 109s are at it anyway :)), you should pick one of those. It isn't any good in our traditional flat-turning 'dogfight' because, well, it can't really turn all that well. Besides, the 190A5 turns much better than the A8, so if turning is your thing, the 190A5 can turn well enough to lay a sustained burst on the target (which is good since it can't kill in a snapshot like the A8 can).
So... what can the 190A8 do well? Well, a couple things. First, it can change direction very well using the roll rate. Second, and more importantly, it can kill just about any plane with a snapshot.
Ok, so how do we use these strengths to our advantage? First, you have to be a reasonably good shot. If you aren't a good shot, you won't make the 1 or possibly 2 'kill-shots' you can force almost ANY plane to give you in the opening seconds of an engagement. This will lead to you dying quickly at the hands of an amused Spitfire or N1K2 pilot. Second, you have to know how to GET that shot on the amused-yet-hopefully-soon-blasted-into-little-pieces Spitfire or N1K2 pilot. And hopefully, I can show you how to do that. It'll take some explaining and some horrible diagrams made in MS paint, but I'd like to try anyway.
First, you have to understand one thing about "ACM" (that fancy pants stuff people try to explain what they do and why with). There will be no talk of hi yoyos or low dingbats, just some plain english words that I hope can do the job.
The one thing is deceptively simple, but it is absolutely crucial in FORCING an overshoot. Here goes, and I'll try to use as little 'jargon' as possible.
Ok, the only thing you really need to know is what factors affect a typical 'turn'. For this, you need to know the 'components', or parts, that make up a 'turn'. The first is turn RATE, or how fast a fighter can get around the turning CIRCLE (which is, incidentaly, the second part of a 'turn :)). Now, turn RATE stays fairly consistant. It is affected by speed, but not nearly as much as the turning CIRCLE is. A slower plane will have a smaller turning circle. That is fact, that is gospel. That will always be true. A 190A8 going 300 mph will have a turning CIRCLE that is smaller than a Spitfire V going 400 mph. Granted, the Spitfire V will get around its circle FASTER, but the distance traveled in the circle will be greater than the distance traveled by the 190. So.. how do you use this to your advantage?
Well, you have to set up a situation where the Spitfire driver will have an 'easy' kill. So you cruise around in your 190A8 at 5-8k, and wait for a higher Spitfire to see you. Second, you have to take advantage of the overaggressiveness that is pervasive in our Main Arena. I'll try to make a diagram for now, and throw a film up when I get around to making one.
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Here is the diagram.
This assumes that the attacker (a Spitfire in this case) will be traveling significantly faster than the defender (a 190). You can help make this happen by flying lower than the enemy, as well as by diving below him at the 'merge'.
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OK, here is a short film I've made with a volunteer. Thanks Wotan :). It is only 80 something K, it isnt a very long fight. It is actually fairly typical of what would happen in the MA. You aren't going to have a long protracted fight with any plane in a 190A8. You are going to have short fights that end with either you or him dead.
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S! Urchin
Good one.
Excelent "A 'Primer' for new LW pilots" by Urchin you find here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=43808&highlight=primer).
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Excellant post Urchin
well written, and very informative.
Only thing I would disagree with is your non-use of the Low Dingbat..... a very effective, aggressive and somewhat deceptive move, that once mastered becomes an essential component of a pile-it's ACM reportoire.
;)
Thanks for the info on the A8, I have started to branch out and fly other planes than just the 109-G6 these days, and the 190 series is one I would like to learn.
Blue
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Great post Urchin, very informative!
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NM figured it out
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Bluedog:
What is a "low dingbat"? Is that another term for a "low yoyo"?
And how would you have used it in the context of Urchin's diagram (which looks like a rolling scissors to me)?
Thanks.
- JNOV
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Nice work.
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Success in the A8 revolves around a smart pilot and good SA flying. Nice write-up Urchin. I usually fly the 4 20mm options too, the 30mm's not only have different ballistics but also really add to the weight penalty. The 190A8 is one of those planes that can be badly overloaded, and typically is flown as such. Flying it as light as possible is really important since it is a much better handling plane when light. This also extends to the fuel situation, where the 190 likes to have some/all of the AFT tank used up before working on the FWD tank. It seem to help the balance, especially at the top of a zoom climb.
btw, the F8 isn't useless. It weighs the same as the A8, has only the two wing cannons, but seems to have a bit better handling (at least I feel it does). it also doesn't tend to allow someone to overload it quite as badly with heavy gun packages. The F8 also climbs a bit better.
Always great to see good pilots relating their experiences.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Urchin I love ur really good posts bout LW stuff.
BTW My uncle owns a little internet art gallery may I use ur high sophisticated paintings as a figurehead for our art website? :D
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Soda- I don't use the 190F8 very extensively. From what I understand it was an 'armored' attack plane. If it indeed has any armor, it isn't very effective. A2A it isn't noticably tougher than any other 190, and I've been killed by 1 ping from field ack just like in any other 190.
The ordinance loadout really kills it for me- 1 500kg bomb is nice, but 4 50kg bombs are useless. You can kill 1 Flakpansie with the 500kg bomb, it seems to be immune to the little bombs. I don't think I've ever killed one with anything weighing less than 500 pounds. If it had rockets, I'd probably take the F8 over the A8 or D9 in the attack role, since it doesn't I'd rather have the extra firepower or speed.
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urchin it wasnt "armored" its basically an a8 with more bombs. The a8 isnt "armored" either. It just has more armor then other versions of the 190s.
Same with the il2. When they call it "armored" they mean it was less likely to be brought down by small arms fire.
It still was shut down in droves. The top lw il2 killer had near 80 il2 kills.
No plane was "armored" enough to take 37mm hits, or 40 mm hits. Some were "lucky" enough to survive a hit but that doesnt change anything.
The f8 is the same as the a8 in ah escept dor the extra guns. once the bombs are gonna its an a8 with 2 x 20mm.
With out the extra guns it handles a bit better then the a8.
I think its a little faster otd but not much.
ofcourse you heard about the p38 that could cut down trees....oops I see you have that in your sig :)
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Heres the armor for the a8
(http://www.il2center.com/Reference/Bulk/LW%20FW-190%20Fighter/Fw%20190A8-armor-1.png)
(http://www.il2center.com/Reference/Bulk/LW%20FW-190%20Fighter/Fw%20190A8-armor-2.png)
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Heres the 190f8
http://www.il2center.com/Reference/Bulk/LW%20FW-190%20Fighter/Fw190F8_armour_draw.tif
its a dot .tif so just follow the link
You see the f8 has added armor plate on the bottom starting from the eng cowl till just behing the seat. 6 mm at its thickest.
8mm protects the fuel tank
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Performance of a 2 cannon A8 and F8 are almost exactly the same. The difference comes when you add on more guns to the A8, which I don't think people realize hurts the performance. Once the guns are there you of course can't really remove their weight, where once the F8's bombs are gone it seems much lighter and more nimble.
The armour level on both birds really feel about the same, inadequate to face just about anything, but they both seem slightly more durable than the A5 when I've flown them and taken pings. Against 20mm though, or larger, you probably won't even notice the armour.
The 50kg bombs are near useless agaisnt Ostwinds. the damage model for the Flak is just plain wrong, especially for something with 1000 rounds in an open-topped turret. I've pickled one right in the turret and not even knocked out the gun. Against lighter GV's they seem to work a bit better, though even an M3 seems to be able to shake off the odd 50kg hit from above. Against structures though they aren't bad, 2 roughly equalling a 250lb bomb. For the money though, the 30mm's on the A8 give more total damage.
I flew the 190F8 a bit this last tour to refresh myself with the plane. It simply isn't a premium attack plane though, and if you don't want to be a strafer and fly LW iron then it's about the best you can get. Anything with US markings likely has 3-4 times the destructive capabilities in total plus is more survivable.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Someone did do some sort of study on how much the 4 cannons affected the performance of the A8 (I think). I think it only came out to about a 5% drop in performance- which is hardly significant compared to the just about 50% increase in firepower.
I don't think a 5% difference is all that much, really. Even a 2 cannon 190A8 isn't going to perform with anything in the arena in a 'dogfight', plus you lose the A8s only advantage, which is enough firepower to kill a fighter in a snapshot.
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well the f8 by the ah charts climbs a bit better from 7k to about 25k then the a8. (about 100 fpm at its highest)
at about 9k to 23 its a bit faster (5 mph faster at best alt)
There are subtle differences that arent easy to to point out.
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5% can be a lot with the types of numbers we deal with, but I don't remember it being anywhere near 5%, more like 0.05%. I have a list of all top speeds of all aircraft in AH, deck, medium alt, and high (I tested them all, same config, to 1mph in accuracy) and the F8 and A8 are tied within 3 mph at all speeds. The A8 was actually 1-2 mph faster at some alts. Also remember that, as with all AH planes, once you drop your bombs/rockets, all penalities associated with shackles/rails/racks, are gone. This isn't so when you've fired off your 30mm's in the outer wings, you still pay a penalty for the gun itself. This is why I've found the F8 to be a little more nimble, at least I feel so.
The problem really is, neither the F8 or A8 are very useful at what they should be relatively good at. Too many other planes are far more capable. Strafing is almost suicidal against GV's, at least with MG 151's, making both 190's unfavored. You're better to have something with 6+ .50's to ensure you land lots of hits and knock out something important, and the .50 is probably more likely to get a kill on an armoured GV anyway. Same goes for attacking structures, too many other planes are that much better. The A8 is a relatively good structure strafer, while the F8 actually can be useful with the 50kg (~110lb) bombs against structures. Problem is, a P-47D30 shows up with 2 1K's under the wings, rockets, 1 500lb'r under the fuselage, and 8 .50's and pretty much owns the A8, both as an attacker, and then as a fighter.
Unfortunate. Great discussion though, nice to see some discussion about these planes as they tend to be seldom seen or mentioned. My aircraft pages help pages had a recent update to the 190F8 and A8 so lots of what I've heard you say is right in line with what I was feeling.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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I'm hooked. good read and pointers... ( shoulda been born with leathers on) been flying this bird so far this tour.. Good fun and a good change for the hurricane I used fly.
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Ok, I've added this to my ongoing "Flying the Luftwaffe Planes" manual that I started by copying Urchin's post from long ago. I'll try to attach to this post (though the Word format may be too big for the BBS).
One tactic that hasn't been brought up is the HO. For me, getting a kill in a FW190A8 with 4 20mm and 2 17mm is best accomplished 3 ways: snapshot from the side from the target's blind spot; from below and behind in the target's blind spot; or from dead ahead in a HO encounter. All 3 ways will cause the victim much anger and frustration at being shot down but none moreso than the HO because the target actually saw it coming and did nothing to prevent it. At least with the first 2 methods of attack, the victim can take solace in knowing that he couldn't defend against something he never saw coming. Only 2 planes are a real danger to an A8 in an HO attack: the P-38 and the Me-110. Those nose-mounted cannons can get you before you can get them. Everything else will disintegrate in your field of fire.
When I engage a bandit, I go straight in. No fancy maneuvers, no fancy roll-outs. If the guy sees me and breaks, I let him go. I've learned not to try and turn a fully-gunned A8 because its capable of quite a nasty spin, even at high speeds. I just blow through, hit what I can, and get out, then swing back around and make another pass through the bait ball.
Usually, when I get killed in an A8, its because I've dropped below 5k alt and gotten caught up in a swirling dogfight. I haven't quite mastered the discipline to limit my attacks. :p
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Manual file too big. Here's the text file version. It ain't pretty.
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Someone mentioned the accel tests I did awhile back, here they are (I didn't test the 190f8, will do it later):
Tests were conducted offline with fuel burn set to lowest -- .001. All planes were launched with DT and 50% fuel and taken to between 4020-4050 ft. Aircraft were slowed to about 180~, DT was dropped and acceleration was timed with a digital stopwatch from 200-300 mph (TAS I believe, the red marker). The planes were then slowed back to 180~ and the tests were repeated using WEP.
I adjusted the head position in to the speedometer and then zoomed in as much as possible, starting the time when the indicator passed the middle of the 200 mph tick and stopping as it passed the middle of the 300 mph tick. Hundredths of a second were rounded up or down to the nearest whole second. Full ammo on all planes.
4k 200-300mph 50% fuel 190 accel data in order from fastest to slowest:
190D-9 2x20mm/2x13mm : 43s / 30s WEP
190A-5 2x20mm/2x7.9mm : 43s / 34s WEP
190A-5 4x20mm/2x7.9mm : 45s / 36s WEP
190A-8 2x20mm/2x13mm : 52s / 41s WEP
190A-8 4x20mm/2x13mm : 54s / 43s WEP
190A-8 2x20/2x30/2x13mm : 56s / 44s WEP
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Originally posted by LoneStarBuckeye
Bluedog:
What is a "low dingbat"? Is that another term for a "low yoyo"?
And how would you have used it in the context of Urchin's diagram (which looks like a rolling scissors to me)?
Thanks.
- JNOV
Ahhh, sorry mate, I was just having a bit of a joke with refferance to Urchin's terminology.
I appologise for any misunderstanding.
Blue
PS to the best of my knowledge, a Dingbat is a small furry creature, somewhat like a Bandicoot (small Australian animal).
I realise this isnt the propper place to be making jokes, and will try and refrain from doing so on this forumn in future to avoid confusion.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Someone did do some sort of study on how much the 4 cannons affected the performance of the A8 (I think). I think it only came out to about a 5% drop in performance- which is hardly significant compared to the just about 50% increase in firepower.
I don't think a 5% difference is all that much, really. Even a 2 cannon 190A8 isn't going to perform with anything in the arena in a 'dogfight', plus you lose the A8s only advantage, which is enough firepower to kill a fighter in a snapshot.
It was me, long time ago. Still, you have to keep in mind that 5% isn't that little either. 10% is a difference between deck speed of Fw 190A-5 and La-7 ;).
The difference mentioned used to be 3-5 % in acceleration and climb. Level speed was exactly the same. I suppose dive was even better with 4 cannons.
A note: if you go from 2 20mm to 4 20mm, you don't get almost 50%, you get almost 100% ;).
Fw 190A-5 had 3% performance hit, only in acceleration and climb. Level speed wasn't affected.
Anyway, 4 20mm was always better for me in A-8. Note that due to no synchronization outer MG 151/20 have higher rate of fire.
As for fighting style, BnZ is great. The other option is high speed dogfight, a hybrid style I noticed with few players when I still was in AH. You do anything you'd do in a Spit, but stay above 350 IAS.
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Actual, the 190F-8 is the exact same plane as the A-5. Only added armor and ord racks are different. The 190G-8 is the direct derivative of the A-8
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Umm, no, F-8 is a derivative of A-8.
G seriers are earlier than F series.
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I love the A8 for everything, in this sortie I started at 15k and ended up on the deck in vertical stall fights with the last 4 cons I bagged. I chose 100%, 4 20mm option, and 1 500kg bomb (I think I hit field dar). This sortie was probably the most fun and memorable I've ever had. After December I'll be flying again, (final exams now), and I would be glad to have anyone ride along that wants to watch. Hope I can be of some help to someone.
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Im new to the game (never tried a flight simulator until now) and Im having loads of trouble with the fw190. Im flying the a8 since its the latest varient but found it difficult to fly as it stals esily and doesnt turn well. I cant outturn any other fighter in the main arena. Is this correct was the fokwolf this poor of a fighter?
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First of all welcome to Aces High! To answer some of your questions, the A8 is not the last varient modeled in AH. The D9 is by far a faster and better plane than the A8. That being said it may not be the most 'fun' to fly. The FW190 is modeled fairly well in Aces High and most people are initially turned off by it because it does stall easily with relatively little elevator input. I flew the 190D9 for an entire tour once (approx 30 days), and I had a blast. While it wasn't particularly good at slow speeds, it does VERY well over 250 mph and even better around 300-350 mph. My best suggestion for the 190 would be:
- 1) Learn how to shoot the guns. The German gun ballistics are far different from other planes, especially American .50 cals. They are worlds apart.
- 2) Don't use the 30mm much, if at all, they are TOO MUCH of a penalty
- 3)Fly fast first, learn to disengage and don't be afraid to run. But when running don't just dive straight away and pull out hard, fluid movements will allow you to build energy and lose less of it when changing flight path. This is very important in 190 vs Spit, N1k, P47, all good diving planes. If you hope to run away, start with speed advantage and don't dive straight down, a gentle downward slope is most effective.
- That being said don't be afraid to exchange alt for speed. This is especially true in 190D9, which will capitalize on that. If you need the speed, dive a bit. Don't squander all altitude, but use a little now and then. In the right amounts you can gain lost advantages and give yourself opportunities to re-engage.
- Don't be discouraged! That's the most important rule, you have to understand it takes time to get good, and it takes even more time to get good in a challenging plane (i.e. 190)
Hope this helps, best of luck and I hope to see you in the skies!
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Try and fly the A8 while light on fuel and guns. If you take the 4 * 20mm option , half internal and a drop tank then you are pretty good. Pitch the droptank before you commit to the fight, and then run off the internal fuel while BnZ'ing your opponents. The A8 is a world apart in light form vs. one full of heavy guns and fuel.
Oh, and check this link:
.Soda's Aircraft Pages (http://www.telusplanet.net/~dsoder/models)
-Soda
The Assassins
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Hi Guys,
Still looking for an answer on the "low dingbat" maneuver. Any answers?:confused:
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That was a joke, bud :).
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is anything like a "hi dingbat"
or is it closer to a "dikfor"..............
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Originally posted by smflash
Im new to the game (never tried a flight simulator until now) and Im having loads of trouble with the fw190. Im flying the a8 since its the latest varient but found it difficult to fly as it stals esily and doesnt turn well. I cant outturn any other fighter in the main arena. Is this correct was the fokwolf this poor of a fighter?
The problem is, you're trying to turn it. What you want to do is point your nose at the target, go straight at him, squeeze the trigger to fire the 4 x 20mm, 2 x 17mm, and if he explodes, that's great, and if he doesn't, then just keep going straight and get some separation so that you can come back around and do it again. The 190a8 is the ultimate jousting machine.
About half of my kills in the 190a8 come from sneak attacks from behind and below the target (in the blind spot), dropping down from altitude with great speed and getting off a quick burst as I go by. A quarter of my kills come from maneuvering snapshots as I work my way through the bait ball, and the others come from winning HOs. A 190a8 will successfully HO most aircraft except for P38s, Mosquitos, and Me110s so long as you start shooting before the other guy does. Typically, by the time you get close enough to worry about a collission, the other guy is just a bunch of debris.
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I wanted to punt this excellent thread and add a comment.
I am no FW-190 ace, but had a great time last night in an A-5. Feeling flush with success I thought I'd punt the thread and throw in my two cents of wisdom.
First, to fly the FW -190s successfully, you MUST learn how to use your one overwhelming advantage, which seems to be left out throughout this thread.
ROLL ! You can out Roll any plane at 200-400 mph. Only a P-38 can out roll a FW, and only when the P-38 is at 400mph plus. At less than 400 you own every other plane in roll.
The 190 simply dominates all other planes in roll at 200-250 mph by a huge factor.
Practice rolling at 200mph and making slight turns to the edge of a stall. You can confound an attacker to no end by rolling and making slight course changes. If the attacker is too fast, you can easily force him/her to overshoot once you have him out of phase in a scissors defence. If the attacker is in a plane that slows quickly and saddles up behind you (like a YAK that seems to be able to put on the brakes and slow instantly), you can keep them from a firing solution by rolling and pulling small turns.
The second key to practice, which is especially useful when rolling/scissoring, but helps in all planes:
Learn to fly while looking backwards! Yes, the ability to fly forwards and maneuver while looking backwards is probably the most important skill you can have in defense. This will allow you to recognize when your attacker is out of phase in the scissors, they are blind, and now you can dart away for some separation or turn the table on him and now you're on his six.
I had a YAK on my six for an eternal amount of time last night. I couldn't shake him, and he couldn't land even a single ping on me as I rolled so much faster than he. Everytime he would pull a little lead for a gun solutiuon I would roll opposite and be gone. This went on till my heartrate was in the exceeding cardio safety workout zone. It finally ended when I dragged him low over our base at 200 mph, rolling all the way, and our ack killed him.
I'm not anywhere near the skill level at looking backwards as I want to be, but heck you have to have a new challenge and I can't think of any skill that will advance me any better right now. So I'm going to practice this at least 30 mins each day till I have eyes in the back of my head.
A couple of comments on the A-5:
The 7.9 mm cowl guns are not entirely useless. They have an incredible 900 rounds each. I have found them ideal for de-acking a field. You can de-ack an entire field using just your machine guns. That way you save all your cannon rounds for planes, and lighten up your A-5 at the same time. I deacked an entire field last night without being hit by a single ack round by simply attacking them one at a time with my puny 7.9 mms. Then roll and jink and roll again out of ack range.
I have also found the 210 mm rockets to be good for GVs and structures. Still don't have the skill for killing buffs with them, but I'm working on it. They definately fly different from the usual US and British rockets, they seem to fly higher.
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Thanks for the punt...some great FW info.
DamnedMax
The Damned MkXX
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Another comment about 190s. Dora may be the fastest of the brotherhood, but it has also the poorest control at hi speeds (> 350 mph), and the poorest control at low speeds (< 250 mph).
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Originally posted by GODO
Another comment about 190s. Dora may be the fastest of the brotherhood, but it has also the poorest control at hi speeds (> 350 mph), and the poorest control at low speeds (< 250 mph).
I agree about the Dora. I've never had much luck with it. Its a greyhound in a straight line but the limitations to the controls makes it tough to do anything but go through the bait ball and then run away.
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Originally posted by gofaster
I agree about the Dora. I've never had much luck with it. Its a greyhound in a straight line but the limitations to the controls makes it tough to do anything but go through the bait ball and then run away.
Ohh yes agreee .. but who cares ... anyway we looove LW planes ...
:aok :aok :aok
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mauser
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For god's sake don't bump these things. Half of what they say simply DOESN'T apply to AH2.
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Fo starters:)
Fw-190A-3/A-6/A-8/F-8/D-9: 2006 edition
Tactics by Hunde_3.JG51 (Kyrule)
The Basics
Use wingman and friendlies, I can't emphasize this enough. The 190 is NOT a lone wolf plane but is an excellent 4 vs. 4 (or more) plane. Often you can simply out-run pursuers and let your buddies pick them off of you. As long as energy is equal or to your advantage, speed and high speed handling will keep you alive. If you don't have advantage, work to at least even it out then disengage.
Always keep in mind that almost every plane will out-turn you in sustained turns, and almost every plane will out-climb you in sustained climbs. Never think you can out-turn someone, unless flying at very high speeds but this is more for defensive than offensive value. Never rely on climb either, with the Dora it is more acceptable.
If you do try to climb away, do so at higher speeds than in most planes. The 190A likes to climb at around 350 or so km/h, don't climb below that speed. Remember also that above 2,000m your climb will start to fall off even more, though speed will increase. The 190 seems to like it around 1,500m and below, and between 4,500m and 6,000m.
Gain altitude whenever you can. Engage with an advantage, disengage if you lose it or get jumped. Split-s works great as climbing will get you shot and other planes will out-turn you. Keep the fight at high speed where your plane handles as good as anyone's, if not better.
The Setup
Know other planes strengths, where they are faster and where you are faster. For example, drag a Mustang to the deck or up to 5,000m or so, in between 1,000m and 4,000m (and above 6,500m) he will be stronger. Knowing where planes are stronger takes alot of time and testing, but it is very useful if you want to employ tactics properly, especially if you want to disengage.
When attacking an opponent do not follow unless they are making gentle turns. If you are lining him up and he banks hard, simply break off and climb away. He has now lost energy and you have increased your advantage. Try to force him to evade and bleed energy. Not great for Hollywood movies but very effective at gaining an advantage.
Use high yo-yo's when making high speed attacks at slower opponents. Make your attack, pull up sharply, flip over on your back, look straight up (down at your opponent), wait until he flies beneath you, then dive down on him again.
The kill
Fire at very close range, 190's guns are not that great beyond 400 yards. don't fire from far off and alert your opponent prematurely during your attack run. In some, more manoeuvrable planes you want to scare them and force them to manoeuvre, not in the 190. Be accurate.
Learn high speed gunnery, it is much different than Turn n Burn gunnery. Learn to anticipate more while your opponent is manoeuvring rather than following. I recommend setting up a practice with a couple A-5's against a bunch of Hurricanes. This will teach you about gunnery at high speed against a slower opponent.
Use rudder corrections alot, it is part of high speed gunnery. If your opponent changes direction at the last moment you can kick your rudder at the last second and get a burst on him. This takes practice but with time it will be done unconsciously and will make you a much better shooter. And after awhile you will not even notice "the bar," (ammo counter) I swear.
like to trim the nose down a good bit from start, I fly the 190 at high speed more often than not and I don't need the nose pulling up on me, this can really effect your gunnery if not accounted for, especially flying at 600-700km/h.
Head-ons are acceptable in the FW-190A, maybe the only plane in the game where this is the case. You should come out the victor in a head-on attack because of your excellent firepower and engine durability. More importantly your opponent often will be less than willing to go head-on and will take evasive action, so you simply climb up and use his manoeuvre against him. When going head-on I usually aim slightly high because the bullets/rounds will drop and because I want to force him down or to the side. This is one case where it is good to fire from farther out, don't worry about wasting ammo you have plenty.
Et Cetera
Evasive manoeuvres can be very effective at high speed. You should be going fast anyway, but if not dive, jink, and gain speed. Severe manoeuvres when an opponent is behind you, even to the point of blackout as long as you are aware of angle the blackout is induced at, can be effective because if he wants to follow chances are he will blackout also. Try to ride the edge and not black-out, this takes experience. If blacked-out make subtle manoeuvres because you will often still have minor control of your aircraft.
I prefer to set convergence for cannons at 500m (475 yards), the rounds/bullets leave your aircraft at a much flatter angle than say at 200m, keeping them more level in your gunsight and making deflection shooting easier. At 200m your rounds actually leave the aircraft at a slight downward angle, you don't need four cannons to hit in the same spot anyway. 500m also gives you a bigger hitbox, or more "spread."
Look for the 109's. Focke Wulfs and 109's compliment each-other well. These two planes have different fighting styles and strengths and combining the two can only make both of you more effective.
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Originally posted by Krusty
For god's sake don't bump these things. Half of what they say simply DOESN'T apply to AH2.
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bump