Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wanker on June 09, 2000, 03:33:00 PM

Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Wanker on June 09, 2000, 03:33:00 PM
This is not a post to bash HTC, it's merely a question.

I've always wondered why HTC doesn't just let Natedog and Superfly release their new creations when they're complete, instead of incorporating them into a large, bug-fixing-feature-adding version, like 1.03.

The downloads would be relatively small, no?

[This message has been edited by banana (edited 06-09-2000).]
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Mox on June 09, 2000, 03:44:00 PM
I completly agree.  I've often wondered why HTC has held back so many things and waited for a large patch.

If I was a developer (you know HTC loves to see these words) I'd release my patches, fixes, updates etc as soon as I felt they were ready.

Call me crazy here but I'm sure each plane has a profile (i.e. all the flight data numbers), once the numbers are worked out in testing apply the skin and release it!  

Why wait for things that are not related like holding back the new FW (which I saw more than a month or two ago in their offices) for something like seeing the turrets move on a tank?

Maybe some marketing person told them this is the best way to do it but I'd seriously doubt any of us would complain about getting planes released as they were finished.

Mox
TWC
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Gorf on June 09, 2000, 03:52:00 PM
Naaa..  I would rather wait.  It would take away some of the excitement with each big release.  Kind of like taking the Olympics from every 4 years to every 2, Olympics no big deal anymore.  Ever since they did that the ratings went down more each years.

Anyway, right now trying to figure out when 1.03 comes out that way I can call in sick to work.  Tell them that I have aceshighatightis. hehehe

Gorf
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: HaHa on June 09, 2000, 04:16:00 PM
Actually I've been really quite annoyed at the length of this update.. some MUCH MUCH needed features (and already implemented btw) have been delayed for 2 months because of this big patch.. basically I haven't enjoyed playing in the arena for the last 1 month (haven't really played at all in the last couple weeks).

[This message has been edited by HaHa (edited 06-09-2000).]
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Rendar on June 09, 2000, 04:25:00 PM
I would like to see the game updated more frequently, too.

------------------
Rendar

[This message has been edited by Rendar (edited 06-09-2000).]
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Mox on June 09, 2000, 04:41:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by HaHa:
Actually I've been really quite annoyed at the length of this update.. some MUCH MUCH needed features (and already implemented btw) have been delayed for 2 months because of this big patch.. basically I haven't enjoyed playing in the arena for the last 1 month (haven't really played at all in the last couple weeks).

[This message has been edited by HaHa (edited 06-09-2000).]

The same for me.  I've flown less in the last 2 weeks than I ever have and it's due to boredom and general lack of anything new.  

Mox
TWC
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: HaHa on June 09, 2000, 06:38:00 PM
Yah but Gorf if there are "easy" changes to make that significantly affect the gameplay I think they should be implemented/patched asap. e.g. cannon issue, tank with no ack defense, m3 troop carrier. As was mentioned by someone else the longer the update the more the boredom factor becomes an issue. At $30 a month I don't like to even "think" I'm becoming bored..
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Sorrow[S=A] on June 09, 2000, 07:30:00 PM
Oh give me a break.

You think they wouldn't like to update more often? Use your brain! If people on 56k had to re-download Ah every 2 weeks or more (think more often- god only knows how many bits have to be fixed they find on their own in a month)people would squeak about the constant downloading just to play!!

As it is they release AWESOME updates about every 1.5 months..  and these updates are phenomenal every time. I think the system works great!
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: CavemanJ on June 09, 2000, 07:46:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
Oh give me a break.

You think they wouldn't like to update more often? Use your brain! If people on 56k had to re-download Ah every 2 weeks or more (think more often- god only knows how many bits have to be fixed they find on their own in a month)people would squeak about the constant downloading just to play!!

As it is they release AWESOME updates about every 1.5 months..  and these updates are phenomenal every time. I think the system works great!

Excuse me, I'm running a 56k modem for dialup connection, usually run between 42k-48k.  I wouldna mind downloads every 2 weeks.  Lessee... during the early beta stage there were weekly updates weren't there?  Or am I just remembering wrong and it was bi-weekly?  I dinnae hear the modem users crying about constant updating, and there are some ppl who only connect at 28.8 or so.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: HaHa on June 09, 2000, 08:24:00 PM
Yah download times doesn't have much to do with it. The other thing that factors in is that it's summer.. oh well couple more weeks I guess.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Rock on June 09, 2000, 09:50:00 PM
I would hate to have to download a new version(regardless of download speed) and relearn to play it every 2 weeks.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: hblair on June 09, 2000, 10:05:00 PM
A 2 month wait for a big version like we're about to get sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Granger on June 09, 2000, 10:21:00 PM
I for one would like to get whatever they have ready, when its ready. Waiting for a huge bru-ha release serves no purpose that I can see, other than building up a huge ammount of hype waiting on the new features.
In the beta, I eagerly waited on the next week, or couple of weeks for the next new plane, feature ect...
Now its become a huge update that is taking forever..
I havent played in over 2 weeks myself..rapidly loosing interest in the same ol crap.
Even a new plane every couple weeks might keep my interest up..but this 2 month wait, even though they have planes ready is imo rediculous.
Im sure it will be awesome when it finally comes out, like the previous releases were.
But I just with instead of the hype and major update they would just keep cranking out new stuff ever couple weeks.
Just my opinion..
If I knew it was gonna take 2 months I would have cancelled and saved my 60 bucks..and reinstated my account when it comes out.

As is, AH aint worth 30 bucks a month, but with the constant updates as in the beta I was willing to pay it due to the new features implemented on a weekly, or bi-weelky basis..it has become stagnant at this point..

On another note
Its sad we must search the web for info on the new 1.03 release instead of reading about it here on their own web pages.
They have put up snippets of info, but for the real scoop you have to look elsewhere, ig-interviews at dogfighter.com and other sources..Why cant they put it up on their OWN page so we dont have to play web detective to find info??

just my .02, ok maybe a nickles worth
Granger
Another day without a release, gonna be a long weekend  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)

Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: HaHa on June 09, 2000, 11:30:00 PM
That's exactly how I feel Granger. I really like AH, not for what it is, but what it'll become.

Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Sunchaser on June 09, 2000, 11:42:00 PM
HTC, your release timing has been near perfect for me, everytime I am ready to stop for a month or 2 you drop something worth 30 to 60 bucks on me.

I am still bummed over the desert storm hangers in a WWII sim though.



------------------
When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: StSanta on June 10, 2000, 01:37:00 AM
Well, I prefer large, exciting updates to continouos small ones that do very little.

One of the problems with continuous updates is it might be a bit confusing - "this worked yesterday" or "this never happened before!".

Let's face it, we still have pilots who drop drunks below 750.

Could be fixed by RTFM, but again, lots don't, and I can hear the noise on ch1 already. If I squelch it, I might lose out on one or RAM's Pearls Of Wisdown  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).

Look at what we get in 1.03. When I think about it, HTC have actually worked quite hard and fast to get it released sometimes this month.

------------------
StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Wanker on June 10, 2000, 07:25:00 AM
Whoa! If ya'll would please carefully re-read my initial post, I was talking about just releasing the planes when they're done, not any new features or bug fixes.

Sorrow, I'm sorry bud but I think it's a relavent question. How many people do you think would really complain if they could download a new plane every three weeks or so? Seems to me that a new plane release is cause for celebration, rather than irritation.

I myself am not distressed about the length of time between releases. I was merely thinking out loud about the possibility of not always keeping the planes out of the game until everything else in a planned version are ready, that's all.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Mark Luper on June 10, 2000, 08:12:00 AM
Granger,
There is a post by Pyro on the Announcements forum that pretty much covers it all.

banana, I agree, it would be cool to have new planes more often but I also like the idea of the bigger updates that include these new planes and address the other issues too. I think it makes it more exciting to get the update by waiting to release the new planes with it.

Mark
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: CavemanJ on June 10, 2000, 08:48:00 AM
If we got regular updates of new planes say every 2 weeks we would still have the hype of new features coming in big updates.  Let's say the 190A5 and Yak-9U(T) were given to us 2 weeks ago.  We'd still have all the hype and excitement of the coming sunsets, propdrag (FINALLY WOOHOO =), ground effect, etc etc

I think it would be a nice balance, and the flakpanzer would deffinately be a very welcome addition right now.  Time to teach them DweebCs to respect the tanks  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Lizard3 on June 10, 2000, 01:33:00 PM
Download time isn't an issue. You don't have to "re-download" AH everytime thiers an update. I connect at caveman(notJ) speeds and even big updates are completed in a few minutes. Personally. I would prefer getting the new planes asap. The rest is just very rich indeed icing on the oh so skrumshus proverbial cake.

Liz
-who recently applied to the courts for a permanant last name change to...you guessed it...Jones-
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Pyro on June 10, 2000, 01:48:00 PM
This thread cracks me but it pays us compliments in a warped way.  To answer the original question, there may be times when we release a version that is mainly just new planes.  But it is normally not feasible.  Once we're content that we won't have to do any more updates to a version, the codebase gets torn apart and nothing new can come out until it's done.  Also there's more to producing planes than just the art.  I need to work on them after the shapes are completed and that takes time too.



------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Most plans are just inaccurate predictions.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Wanker on June 11, 2000, 08:53:00 AM
Pyro,

If this thread cracks you up, it's probably because of our ignorance about how your code works and how you design the game.

Little tidbits of info like what it takes to make a new piece of art fly, are the things that go a long way in helping us understand the process.

Those of us who don't live and breathe code for AH 24hrs a day like HTC, only have a vague understanding of what it takes to get a new plane from conception to the FTP site. Anything you can add that helps us understand that process will prevent future threads like this one.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: indian on June 11, 2000, 09:41:00 AM
banana and most of the rest a to get a decent idea of how long it would take to write the code go to a computer store or library and just look into one of the programming books on any of the langagues out now. Its not as simple as if this then that like basic was, I studied C+ years ago it was an enormous program to learn I gave up on.

They are still upgradeing faster then anyone else are they not.

------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
  1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: HaHa on June 11, 2000, 11:28:00 AM
Imho c++ was created by "computer scientists" to add complexity/design decisions to their field. Real developers still use C. The ONLY time C++ becomes viable is when you are working on huuuge projects "or" using a huge library. In the case of winxx they created the MFC class, which from what I understand is a pain in the arnold. Every oop language I've seen (Java/C++) have interesting concepts but are a mess to develop in. It's like trying to tell a baby how to walk by tieing two lead bricks to their feet.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Pyro on June 11, 2000, 12:07:00 PM
banana, it wasn't your question that I was referring to about cracking me up, just on the sentiment that we take too long on releases.  

------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Most plans are just inaccurate predictions.

[This message has been edited by Pyro (edited 06-11-2000).]
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Dago on June 11, 2000, 02:37:00 PM
Since I havent mastered every plane and every tactic, I guess I am not in a big hurry for updates.  I like them, and any improvements, but I know they will come in time.  I would rather get them when they are ready and not try to hurry it.

Better done right the first time.

The rest of you can just stop your impatient whining like a bunch of spoiled little kids wanting the newest, latest and greatest Nintendo game.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Dago
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: HaHa on June 11, 2000, 05:51:00 PM
Before 1.02 HTC said they would be (and are) putting out new releases every two weeks. However, since 1.02 it was changed, saying releases are 1 to 1 1/2 months. The fact is, we are now rolling into 2 months + now with 1.03. Compared to most other companies you are great which is the reason why other companies aren't getting my $$. However, compared to your previous performance the length of release times has increased (albeit with more features).

Like I said I attribute it to the summer/holiday thing - you guys deserve a break. Some of us just hope this isn't a trend (I personally prefer shorter release times - even if it means less features).
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: By-Tor on June 11, 2000, 06:00:00 PM
Well said Dago. Im sure we're not the only 2 that havent mastered every plane yet.Theres still Soooo much to be learned with the current version,I can manage(barely (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))to hold back my 'need' for the Zeke or Yak or ...

      By-Tor

------------------
"SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS"
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: RAM on June 11, 2000, 06:04:00 PM
   
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro:
banana, it wasn't your question that I was referring to about cracking me up, just on the sentiment that we take too long on releases.  


I had that feeling before knowing what was included in 1.03. As soon as I aknowledged the enormous improvement it is, the timing seems really great. Maybe people thinks that 2 months is a lot of time to do a new release. I know very little on programation and coding, but I know enough to say that this work,if was done in 4 or 5 months, would have been a very good achievement. 2-3 months is simply awesome.


Anyway, what banana said is true. I didnt understood why, having a 190A5 ended for a (more or less) long time, HTC didnt release it as soon as ready. Now I understand it perfectly.

But well I guess I'm not the one to talk in this thread, nor about any releases, for evident and well known causes.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 06-11-2000).]
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: cokerr on June 11, 2000, 09:12:00 PM
I think the releases effecting general game play are timely and in direct response to the input of the AH community.
If the release of an aircraft is done as a stand alone application, the complaints like,
"this AC doesn't turn right" or " this AC doesn't climb right" or "this AC has uber cannon" would delay the really important releases. Like the ones that fix bugs.
I would rather have less planes, and a game that runs smoothly.
IMHO,
coker
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Pyro on June 12, 2000, 01:41:00 AM
Haha, you're going to have to produce a quote for that claim.  There's no way anybody here ever made a statement like that.  In beta we tried to put out a release every couple weeks or so but we're not in beta anymore.



------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Most plans are just inaccurate predictions.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: funked on June 12, 2000, 02:42:00 AM
Pyro said:
 
Quote
Once we're content that we won't have to do any more updates to a version, the codebase gets torn apart and nothing new can come out until it's done.

What part of this don't you all understand?
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Saintaw on June 12, 2000, 02:51:00 AM
Errrr....you guys are just incredible... Yes, I am waiting feverishly for 1.3 & 1.4 , and IMO try to find another company that releases patches as frequently as this one...

You're just spoiled kids...

Keep it up HTC, I'd rather wait another week or two & have something polished, than a buggy game in a day...
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Skuzzy on June 12, 2000, 10:56:00 AM
Hmmmm, HaHa, if I may....  I am a software developer and have managed software development for many years.

What HTC is doing is not only resonable, but very responsible.

After any type of major release, you expect to have to update it, with fixes tweaks and so on.  They have done so, with great haste.
But after going through this type of exercise, you have to stop and take some time before going through that exercise again.

From a process point of view.  They should be applauded.  I think it is incredibly responsible of them to step back and view what they have done, and then take the time to put it all together again.  This is programming at its very finest and the exact way programming should be done, IMHO.


------------------
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: Wanker on June 12, 2000, 11:06:00 AM
 
Quote
Once we're content that we won't have to do any more updates to a version, the codebase gets torn                              apart and nothing new can come out until it's done.

Ahhh, Ok. I think I understand now. So, what Pyro is saying is that once they decide on what new aircraft, vehicles, bug fixes, enhancements, etc are going to go in the next version, the "gold" code gets broken up into different sections, and doesn't get compiled again until everyone's piece is complete, right?

So, theoretically, it's impossible to release a plane seperately before the next "big" release is compiled.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Why not release new planes when ready?
Post by: popeye on June 12, 2000, 11:17:00 AM
Dago finally admitted:

"Since I havent mastered every plane and every tactic,"

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

I wouldn't mind seeing new planes introduced between updates, but if it's not easy to do, I'd rather not have HTC waste time to do it.

popeye